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Getifa Ubazza
29-06-2006, 17:00
Hears the deal. You have been promoted to head games developer for your favourite army codex.

I dont want to know about your opinions on individual rules, or on what units are cheesy/useless. I want your opinion on the overall concept or focus of your army or in which direction you feel the army should head in.

Example 1: The last Eldar codex seemed to focus on Guardians, if i was in charge i would focus on Aspect warriors as the main troops and have guardians in a support role.

Example 2: Orks in the last edition of 40k seem to have been overshadowed by Tyranids. What i would like to see is Tyranids focusing more on big scary monsters with a tide of baby bugs in support and Orks being more about the boys horde with light fast vehicles with huge guns to support them. In other words i want both armies to be distinctive from each other.

I hope the examples help you understand what im after, also this isnt just about Orks, Eldar or Nids. Its about any army you want. I would like you to go into more depth than i have in the examples. Imagine your having to explain your concept to your development team.:eek: :)

Thanks

Bronka
29-06-2006, 17:32
OK, I'll do Dark Eldar!

In terms of the 'feel' of the army, I'd like to see more focus on the tragedy of the Dark Eldar, rather than 'Gaaaah!! We are evil pirates and we are going to enslaaaaaaave you!!'. It's too simplistic. Let's get more dark, brooding Shakespearean tragedy in there.

And with regard to general rules and whatnot, I'd want to give players broader options to create a truly unique force, as the Dark Eldar should not be a uniform army in either look or composition. For example, options for Haemonculi 'torture cults', with options to follow different 'schools of torture' (the effect would be similar to choosing marks of Chaos).

DogmaRaider
29-06-2006, 18:36
For Chaos:

I'd focus more on the Daemons for Chaos. Certainly add the option of a daemon only army and also create a greater choice of daemons and increase the possible combinations of daemons. Also bring out daemons just for the MoCU and add another HQ Undivided daemon to give the army more weight.

I'd also expand and provide more specialized units for the specific non-god dedicated CSM armies such as Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, etc. They're really just standard SM armies with minor specific rules attached.

luchog
29-06-2006, 19:22
Example 1: The last Eldar codex seemed to focus on Guardians, if i was in charge i would focus on Aspect warriors as the main troops and have guardians in a support role.
Guardians are the backbone of the Eldar (like crunchy troops are the backbone of any military); but I agree that I'd like to see more focus on the other Aspect warriors. Since Eldar are supposed to be such great psykers, I'd like to see much more and stronger psyker stuff, too.

Would like to see a little more variation in 'Nids, including more specialized troops; but otherwise they're fine.

I like the way that the Tau are, haven't gotten into them enough to find any particular weaknesses; but I hate the designs. I'd completely redesign most of the models.

sephiroth87
29-06-2006, 22:30
Chaos:

1. Make the Chaos Codex several different versions, like in Fantasy.

2. Expand the Lost and the Damned into one large codex, incorporating Daemons, horde troops, and artillery. For all intents and purposes, they really are what the chaos background is all about.

3. Bring out a simplified Chaos codex that lets Chaos Marines take traits, like in the Marine codex. Simple... More background is appreciated, of course.

4. Bring out a chaos codex that allows the cult armies to have more than 8 pages. I don't even play them and I feel sorry for how they've been treated in the book.

Splagbot
29-06-2006, 22:40
For Imperial Guard I'd focus more on the Infantry, in my opinion the Guardsman should the backbone of any Guard army, I mean sure mechanized companies are ok, but theres nothing quite like seeing the look on your opponents face when you place 150+ Guardsman on the table and still have room for 1 or 2 tanks, it's a Kodak moment, honestly.

Imperial Stormtrooper
29-06-2006, 22:44
For Chaos:


I'd also expand and provide more specialized units for the specific non-god dedicated CSM armies such as Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, etc. They're really just standard SM armies with minor specific rules attached.

i completly agree with the above, and i also think they should either make the bloodthirster cheaper, increase his armor save, or give him more wounds. for 205 points the only way he is better than my demon prince is 3 more WS and 2 more S and i cant give him any of my delicous khorny goodness rules like, Feel no Pain or the extra benefits from the mark of khorne and a waste of points if your opponent kills your model whos got the daemon inside of him any way. i would also give khorne the option to use raptors. because that would be ******* awesome for me... ******* awesome..3 attack each raptors with the possibility of moving 13-18 inches a turn? also this may sound kinda bad, but i believe giving daemonic strength to all models with mark of khorne... because my khorne berserkers arent much different then spacemarines in combat except for extra attacks and frequently LOSE combats from things like dark eldar or imperial gaurd or even a tau battlesuit unit with alot of shield drones, i mean why not? nurgles got daemonic resilience... my last beef with the chaos codex is Kharn the Betrayer. the only thing i have with him is, he dies a LITTLE to fast for him to make his points from killing my guys and my enemies. he wiped out a whols squad of my OWN bikes once. i mean, give him an invulnerable or feel no pain man..sheesh...
*Whew* thats alot im sorry but i believe these are fair changes/suggestions

Unseeing Eye
29-06-2006, 22:56
Necrons: Focus on teleportation. Tone down of WBB, removal of the silly "Anti-Climatic Battles" rule (perhaps change phase out to being able to teleport out and back on after running like Epic). Lack of diversity in one army for theme is okay, lack of diversity between armies is not. Therefore, I'd increase focus on customisable C'tans, Necron forces aligned with different C'tans and army-wide upgrades (e.g. Carapace armour for guard).

marv335
29-06-2006, 23:05
i'd like to move the space marines a little closer to the warrior monk idea.
take the blood angels back to the way they were in 2nd ed (not frothing looneys with a lust for combat). tortured artists with a love of beauty.
eldar. a doomed, tragic race. fallen from past glories.

Grand Master Belial
29-06-2006, 23:18
Dark Angels

Deathwing Army - Mix and match weaponry as per 3rd Ed and include Term Specialists (Apothecary, Techmarine & Standard Bearer)

Ravenwing Army - Include Specialists (Apothecary, Techmarine & Standard Bearer) and Characters in possible models to lead the group. Include more weapons choices (Assault - Flamers; Heavy -Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher, Lascannons, Assault Cannon & Heavy Flamers). Bikers may arm themselves with CCW or pistol for a +1 attack bonus.

Battle Companies - Vet Sergeants are Deathwing and may wear Terminator Armour instead of Power Armour at the normal points cost. Otherwise same as standard Space Marines.

All Veterans (Characters, DW and Vet Sergeants and those with Term Honors) are subject to the "Hunt for the Fallen" rule.

Ironwing - Write Rules for an armored company. All squads must have a vehicle or pod save infiltrating scouts and teleporting terminators. Tanks can spill into Troops Choices but the 2 Troop min must still apply.

Reserve Companies - All Codex Chapters
Allow rules for those who want to play a reserve company. All Tact (Foot, Bike or Speeder(non-RW), Dev or Asslt.

Scout Company
Characters have the option of downgrading to Scout armour and gaining the Infiltrate skill. Though they do not gain the benefits of the extra D6 when moving through terrain (There's a lot of parchment needed to train a Scout.)

There should be rules to field an all scout company using the above rules. Only the Chaplains and Librarians would be allowed to wear Power Armor (not terminator armour)

Getifa Ubazza
29-06-2006, 23:35
Scout Company
Characters have the option of downgrading to Scout armour and gaining the Infiltrate skill. Though they do not gain the benefits of the extra D6 when moving through terrain (There's a lot of parchment needed to train a Scout.)

There should be rules to field an all scout company using the above rules. Only the Chaplains and Librarians would be allowed to wear Power Armor (not terminator armour)

I like this idea quite alot, but i would allow characters who have downgraded to scout armour to have the extra D6 when moving through terrain. This reminds me of one of the things that bugs me with the Blood axe ork klan list, the fact that you can take an all infiltrating army but the Warboss for some stupid reason cant. I would think that if he was the leader of a klan that specialised in infiltrating then he would be the best in the army at it and that goes for Scout company characters to, considering that hes training others to do something means that he must be able to do it himself.

marv335
30-06-2006, 00:38
you do know that IC all have move through cover as a standard rule don't you?
they only lose the ability if they join a unit without it

Spell_of_Destruction
30-06-2006, 01:01
OK, I'll do Dark Eldar!

In terms of the 'feel' of the army, I'd like to see more focus on the tragedy of the Dark Eldar, rather than 'Gaaaah!! We are evil pirates and we are going to enslaaaaaaave you!!'. It's too simplistic. Let's get more dark, brooding Shakespearean tragedy in there.

And with regard to general rules and whatnot, I'd want to give players broader options to create a truly unique force, as the Dark Eldar should not be a uniform army in either look or composition. For example, options for Haemonculi 'torture cults', with options to follow different 'schools of torture' (the effect would be similar to choosing marks of Chaos).

That sounds interesting.

I'm far from an expert on Dark Eldar (the only fluff I have really read is that in the codex which is pretty much...well..nonexistent) but I've always thought the concept of "Dark" Eldar without the associated Chaos taint is somewhat bizarre considering that Eldar are the race most prone. I would have thought that Cammoragh would be rife with Chaos given the constant supply of polluted Eldar souls streaming into the warp.

Where are the psykers? Are they so vulnerable to the denizens of the warp that they rarely make it past a certain age?

Slaaneshi cult would be an interesting if perhaps overly obvious development of Dark Eldar. I would like to see Slaanesh more prevalent in the DE list in general and in the fluff. The Dark Eldar seem to essentially be a continuation of pre-fall Eldar society which means they are constantly and willingly feeding Slaanesh.

Gotchaye
30-06-2006, 01:25
Eldar -

I'd focus on psychics and firepower. Farseers would be superb support psykers, with various global effects similar to the old Tau Ethereal or the Emperor's Champion, and Warlocks would be only slightly weaker than Librarians. Farseers would lose all of their directly offensive powers, and Warlocks' powers would get much stronger.

Most guns would get a significant boosting - instead of taking the Starcannon down to match the other weapons, as rumors indicate they're doing for the new codex, the other guns would be scaled up to match the Starcannon (points would be adjusted as appropriate, of course). Since it's a very easy way to add firepower to units, vehicles and Guardians would come stock with BS4, and Aspects would hop up to 5 (this is as much a theme thing as an individual rule thing, sorry if it's not topical). This does not represent them being more skilled than Marines, instead it represents Aspects being as skilled as Marines (like now), boosted by advanced Eldar targeting technology (represented in Epic and BFG by way of Pulse weapons and various special rules, and mysteriously absent from the 40k scale). This would naturally result in higher prices, which both make for a smaller (quite fluffy) and more fragile per point spent (very fitting with the Eldar tabletop theme without resorting to nonsensical explanations) army.

Lyinar
30-06-2006, 01:44
Actually, from the description of one of the pieces of wargear (yeah, I know that's sad that it's the only source of this fluff), Dark Eldar psykers don't make it past a certain age thanks to their brethren, not thanks to the daemons. They get sacrificed as soon as they're discovered.

Kahadras
30-06-2006, 01:44
Space Wolves.

I'd focus quite heavily on the idea of a hunting pack (which is what the Wolves are ment to be all about) Basicaly when they start off as a pack they are young, idealistic and eager (Blood Claw). They would get a free move before the battle starts to show them surging forward as the enemy is spotted. This is the chasing pack. They run their prey to ground.

Once more experienced hunters they become Grey hunters. They are more experienced and hardened and stalk their prey rather than chasing it down. Grey hunters can take infiltrate.

Long fang are the patitent hunters and wait in ambush for their prey to come to then. Few in number now after may years of war they are much more experienced than either Grey Hunters or Blood claw. They support their brother at long range (can take the tank hunters skill). Few in number there armour is reworked to give them greater battlefield protection (reason for not having counter charge and true grit) and gain a 2+ save (armour counts as artificer armour).

The rest would pretty much stay the same. Maybe make Venerable Dreads just HQ choices (showing the Wolves respect of age, you are a leader no matter whether you are 'dead' or not).

The army forms packs around each HQ choice so must have at least one pack of Grey hunters per HQ choice (dunno how that would work but could be interesting (limits kept on characters i.e one Wolf priest, One Rune priest etc)

Have Grey hunters rather than Blood Claw on bikes and look to drop the Blood Claw jump pack squads (Space Wolves just don't believe in that kind of stuff)

Kahadras

muskrat
30-06-2006, 02:18
For Chaos- I would combine the LatD lists with Chaos Codex.

In effect, you would be able to freely take any unit from either dex- but just those. In order to make a tratior guard army, the LatD list would purely be used. Changes would include making tratior platoons and such- more focus on the guard element. Daemons would be expanded, as well as the non-cult legions, mostly with new units.

No space marine force would be able to choose anything from the guard codex, even looted vehicles (save for iron warriors). Lists for daemon armies would also be present- Daemon Princes leading a horde of daemons into battle, no usmmoning or anything, like in fantasy. This would make for smaller, more elite forces, but are usable by good players.

Adept
30-06-2006, 04:04
Space Marines: Only one codex. Thats right, suck it up guys, no Blood Angels codex, no Dark Angels codex. Every other army gets one codex. Get used to it.

Ardathair
30-06-2006, 04:25
Codex Harlequin:

Fast, lethal in CC and no armor except for DJs.
Little shooting, except for DJs every weapon either assault or preferably pistol.
Rely on speed, dexterity, and holosuit for protection, so an invulnerable save.
Stealthy, holosuits.
Can ally with either Dark Eldar or Craftworld Eldar but not both, use the ally rules from DH and WH as examples.
Have own weapons and vehicals, not borrowed from eldar codex (No I do not think harlequin wraithlords are good, they are controled but spirtstones which are the Craftworlds' way, and Harlequin Talos just wouldn't work either.)

[Craftworlds have bright lance, Dark Eldar have dark lance, Harlequins should have rainbow lance.:D ]

DragonPup
30-06-2006, 04:26
Witch Hunters: Celestians squads can change their bolters to a bolt pistol and a CCW.

Sister Repentias get a point cost redux. Perhaps giving a faith point if the squad is wiped out. Or maybe give them the equivlent to the tyranid catalyst power on a charge.

SisterMordagg
30-06-2006, 06:54
Witch Hunters: Take out the sisters repentia entirely.

DragonPup
30-06-2006, 07:20
Nah, Repentia's fit the fluff nicely. They just need decent rules. :p

Loki
30-06-2006, 07:35
Imperial Guard:

I want them to be alot more customizable in terms of performance and feel. The Autogun and Stubber were right steps and allowed your army to feel more 'modern'.

Would you want a more high-tech feel with laserguns and nice little toys to go with it?

A more modern army with assault rifles SAW's etc?

Basically....yeah. More variety.

Getifa Ubazza
30-06-2006, 09:52
you do know that IC all have move through cover as a standard rule don't you?
they only lose the ability if they join a unit without it

Doh!:o I do now.:D

Dranthar
30-06-2006, 10:35
Where are the psykers? Are they so vulnerable to the denizens of the warp that they rarely make it past a certain age?
For the record, all Eldar are psykers. It's just that very few of them choose to develop that potential given the dangers involved in doing so (more-so than humans, since an Eldar soul is has a much stronger presence inthe warp and would thus attract demons far more readily).

Dark Eldar who choose to become psykers make tasty treats for their bretheren (they eat their souls), hence why there are so few of them around in Dark Eldar society.


Slaaneshi cult would be an interesting if perhaps overly obvious development of Dark Eldar. I would like to see Slaanesh more prevalent in the DE list in general and in the fluff. The Dark Eldar seem to essentially be a continuation of pre-fall Eldar society which means they are constantly and willingly feeding Slaanesh.

The Dark Eldar are constantly having their souls drained by Slaneesh because they continue to practice the very same lifestyle that created him/her/it in the first place. Sure, they could choose to stop enslaving and torturing and generally having a good time, but why let the creation of a God, the fall of a civilisation and the threat of being consumed by above-mentioned God get in the way of their fun? The Dark Eldar are Evil because they like it, and they are far too arogant to care about the consequences. That is the underlying motivation of the Dark Eldar, and that is why I like them as a race so much.

They live in the webway because Slaneesh's drain on their souls is not as strong, but they still need to "replenish" themselves, hence why they consume the souls of those they enslave.

Nowhere in the fluff does it say they willingly feed Slaneesh, and they seem to hate him/her/it at least as much as the Craftworld Eldar.


But back to the topic...:rolleyes:

I'd like to see the Dark Eldar remain the fastest army in the game, with firepower and assault abilities that outstrip any other race, but are still extremely fragile and fall down to a light breeze.

Kabals should emphasise shooting and speed with very good assault.
Wych Cults should be the masters of assault plus the typical DE speed.
Haemonculus Covens however, should be the exception (as they are now). They'd have the slow, resiliant units with low/moderate shooting and HTH ability, but should have the edge in psychological warfare (ie. pinning/moral and other Ld-based tests)

The Dark Eldar should also keep and expand upon their options for army deployment. Right now you can deploy your army as normal, deep-strike some/all of them, use the hidden deployment for your mandrakes, or deploy most of your force from webway portals. I think this could be expanded upon with possible extra rules for deep-striking and webway portals, and at least a unit with infiltration.

The slave-taking aspect of the army should, of course, be retained. At the very least it needs to be cleared up/simplified, and ideally it should become a major part of how the army works.

Background-wise, the DE should keep the core motivations they have right now (as above), although it definitely needs to be expanded upon - right now you need to trawl through and decipher the codex and several short stories to fully understand just what they're about.

Killgore
30-06-2006, 10:47
Orks

More emphesis on ranged Fire Power,

the 3rd ed Ork codex was to basic, big mob of orks charging across the board to get into hth..... This is only one aspect of the Ork army.... Theres just as many Gun loving orks as there is hth loving orks, but 3rd ed only focused on hth which is WRONG!



Give Orks more shooting rules/ options and customisable Mech "Soopa" guns, where you get a basic Mek Gun and for points costs add stats to it, like +1 strength 5 points etc etc, meening the power of the gun would depend on how many points you spend on it (with the chance of a mishap/ acsident ^_^ )

Also we want more Ork warmachines.... especialy a Stompa!

Getifa Ubazza
02-07-2006, 00:38
I must say i actually liked the 3rd ed Orks but felt the 2nd ed statline was better, when the 3rd ed first came out i agreed with the changes but after playing the army for over a year, I kinda missed the old orks. I would like to see some type of Ork only Ordinance kannon/tank, maybe a lungbusta or something with a demolisher cannon would be cool.

Hlokk
02-07-2006, 01:05
Imperial Guard. Bring back their tanks. Seriously, for an army famed for its tanks, it lost three in the transition to fourth edition (Vanquisher, Exterminator, Griffon) and take them out of the heavily misprinted 50 book of doom.

Also, bring in a set of doctrines which allow people to field arbites armies, I dunno, perhaps a wargear option which allows shotguns at S4, Rg 18, Assault 2, AP-, a modified version of warrior weapons to represent supression squads. Combine with special weapon squads, carapace armour and sharp shooters and you have yourself a nice arbites army.

make shotguns useful and introduce a doctine to allow these to be taken instead of lasguns.

Introduce the heavy stubber as a special/heavy weapon (Can be taken by both)