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View Full Version : How many Troll Slayers would it take?



Getifa Ubazza
14-03-2015, 14:09
I'm sure this question has been asked a million times, but I want to ask it anyway.

Let's say you have a unit of 10 Trolls with whatever upgrades you can give them,, against an equal in points unit of Troll Slayers, taking whatever upgrades you can give them. which unit would win?

While this battle is going on, beside them is the Troll King Throgg and a Slayer Hero of equal points cost to Throgg. Who would win?

Even though these are separate fights, would they have any effect on each other? In one scenario they are an inch apart, in another, they are at opposite sides of the table. No other units are on the board

I understand that luck plays a big part in the game, but I want you to only think of this as everything being equal, with no dumb luck on either side.

I don't play much Fantasy Battle, so have no actual game experience to answer this question myself. Just curious really.

I did notice though that the Troll King is in the Warriors of Chaos page on the GW website and the Trolls are only in the O&G section. I know there used to be Chaos Trolls, but can't find them.anywhere. I'm confused.

Ahnarras
14-03-2015, 14:13
I'm no dwarf, but i think it would be fairly simple to have an answer: can the dwarf have flamming attack (a rune on the banner, probably?)
If yes, troll are dead. Slayer are better fighter and carry great weapon, so without the regen, troll are just dead.

Same for throgg vs slayer: rune of ASF, flamming, and the one that boost your strenght against high T, and throgg is certainly dead.

Montegue
16-03-2015, 13:01
Giant Slayers (slayer champions) can carry a Rune of Fire on their hand weapon, so you're likely to win (unless you flubb his rolls).

ledex07
16-03-2015, 23:53
I believe that it is a pretty evenly matched fight; this would probably come down to whoever had better rolls. The main difference is the slayer hero (Dragon Slayer) can take runes that make him neigh unstoppable, including giving him the ability to make his hits fire attacks.

Long story short the slayers can be made to stop anything on the battlefield; it's just a matter of point cost and getting them to the opponent and not messing up the dice rolls.

Getifa Ubazza
17-03-2015, 07:23
So Troll Slayers against Trolls in Fantasy is like Grey Knights against Daemons in 40K? The Trolls pretty much have no chance against Troll Slayers, because they can take upgrades that cancel out the Trolls ability to regenerate? That's kinda sad, as I envisioned an epic struggle that could go either way. I thought Troll Slayers became Troll Slayers because they were looking for a heroic death.

Colonel Mayhem
17-03-2015, 08:48
Not necessarily. I would imagine you would still have a lot of dead Slayers in the end(and all those would surely have gotten a worthy death). But when you start allowing them whatever upgrades they can get I think the Giant Slayers + runes tips the scales. Do river trolls still grant -1 to hit in close combat? because that could potentially tip it back a bit.

Montegue
18-03-2015, 20:42
So, do the math. 12 trolls (a big unit) versus a horde of Slayers (a big unit). Giant Slayer has a Rune of Fire on his hand weapon.

On init two, the Giant Slayer swings. Assuming hatred (OnG trolls), he hits twice, and wounds once, killing regen. Rest of the unit throws down with great weapons, so they go last.

Trolls swing. They get 18 attacks, of which 9 hit, and 6 wound. 6 Dwarfs swing on death blow, needing 3's to hit (rerollable for hatred), so they get 5ish hits. Let's say 3 wounds (needing 3s). So, one dead troll.

Now the Slayers swing. 8 can reach, so 24 attacks, minus one from the Giant Slayer. 23 attacks needing 3's and rerolling. That's about 16 hits, plus another 4 or so on hatred. So, let's say 20 hits. 3's to wound, so, 6 wounds give or take. Then three stomps in return, which kills two, who both hit and one wounds, so, dwarfs did 10 wounds versus the 7 the trolls did. Trolls lose the combat by 3, banner, but probably got the charge. So, trolls lose by 3. If the general is nearby, they may hold. If the BSB is also nearby, they probably hold. If they tried to kill the Dragon Slayer, they would have wasted a lot of combat rez, and probably would have been run down. If they don't kill him, then he continues to strip regen.

Sir_Glonojad
18-03-2015, 21:35
20 hits with 3+ to wound equal some 12 wounds.

rolly_321
19-03-2015, 09:51
It'd be pretty disappointing if unit called 'XYZ killers' was incapable of killing said XYZ.

Although any smart OnG player will give those troll slayers and far better doom, in the form of a the doom diver!

Really when you think about it those insane flying goblins make slayers look like absolute wussies. When they go to fight they might kill there foe, they might not, they might fly face first into a tree.. They are going to die, they are going to make a mess, it WILL be glorious (by goblin standards).

Montegue
19-03-2015, 12:42
20 hits with 3+ to wound equal some 12 wounds.

Oh, duh. right. Maths! So, lots dead.

Getifa Ubazza
19-03-2015, 12:54
It'd be pretty disappointing if unit called 'XYZ killers' was incapable of killing said XYZ.

I agree. I just wouldn't want it to be a foregone conclusion, which it sounds like it would be.

If it's XYZ Slayers\Hunters vs XYZ, then yes, I want them to have abilities that are specific to their specialisation, But not be so good against it, that it has no drama.

Imagine if you will, Van Helsing against Dracula. Although most people expect Helsing to win in the end, it would be pretty boring if he just ran in with cross in one hand and a wooden stake in the other, while drenched in holy water and killed Dracula, just like that. Equally, it would be boing if Dracula just used his superior speed and strength to tear out Helsings throat in one fell swoop. It would be a WOW moment for sure, but it should only come, after a long hard battle.

I play wargames for those cinematic moments, where 2 powerful heroes face off against each other or 2 units are stuck in an epic battle, where you just don't know what's going to happen. If those heroes or units have history, then that just ups the drama. Does that make sense?

Lord Dan
19-03-2015, 17:45
You can get 30 Slayers for 360 points, and 10 Trolls for 350 points. Sure you could add someone with flaming in there - which case the Slayers win easily - but then again the Trolls could have some kind of magical support as well. The crux of the question is whether or not stock Slayers can beat stock Trolls, so I'm just going to do the math for that.

There's a lot going on in these combats, so I'll be as clear as I can to allow people to check my math, and I'm going to try this two ways:

30 Slayers w/ GW (10x3) vs. 10 Trolls (5x2)

Trolls Attacks: 30 attacks, 15 hits, 10 wounds.
Slayer Deathblows: 10 attacks, 6.7 hits, 4.5 wounds, 2.2 after saves.
Slayers Attacks: 20 attacks, 13.3 hits, 8.7 wounds, 4.4 after saves.
Troll Stomps: 5 stomps, 3.3 wounds.
Slayer Deathblows: 3.3 attacks, 2.2 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 after saves.

16.7 Slayers Remain, and 7.6 trolls remain. I think it's pretty clear that the Slayers lose this combat, having taken 44% casualties and inflicting just 24% in return.


30 Slayers w/ AHW (10x3) vs. 10 Trolls (5x2)

Slayer Attacks: 40 attacks, 26.7 hits, 13.3 wounds, 6.7 after saves.
Troll Attacks: 23.3 attacks, 11.7 hits, 7.8 wounds.
Slayer Deathblows: 7.8 attacks, 5.2 hits, 2.6 wounds, 1.3 after saves.
Troll Stomps: 5 stomps, 3.3 wounds.
Slayer Deathblows: 3.3 attacks, 2.2 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 after saves.

18.9 Slayers remain, 7.08 Trolls remain. The Slayers have taken 37% casualties and inflicted 29%.

Slayer Attacks: 28.9 attacks, 19.3 hits, 9.6 wounds, 4.8 after saves.
Troll Attacks: 16.4 attacks, 8.2 hits, 5.5 wounds.
Slayer Deathblows: 5.5 attacks, 3.7 hits, 1.8 wounds, .91 after saves.
Troll Stomps: 5 stomps, 3.3 wounds.
Slayer Deathblows: 3.3 attacks, 2.2 hits, 1.5 wounds, .75 after saves.

10.1 Slayers remain, 4.9 Trolls remain. The Slayers have taken 66% Casualties and inflicted 50%.

For those who haven't figured it out already the Slayers lose in two more rounds, having inflicted something like 76% casualties on the Trolls.