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Solaaris
23-03-2015, 22:33
Hows the best way to equip and use Chaos Knights nowadays?

My WoC is mostly based around nurgle, are MoN Knights worth it, or is anything but Khorne a waste? :(

Cheers

Sol

Groza
23-03-2015, 22:56
Unless you want to crack a sphinx or something with a 1+ the ensorcelled weapons are better. Even though you're most likely gonna be charging knights are good at war of attrition due to their 1+ (and in case of MoN -1 to hit) so the constant +1 strength comes handy.

SimaoSegunda
23-03-2015, 23:44
If you have the Tamurkhan book, you can upgrade Nurgle-marked knights to be 2W with 5+ regen on mounts with 2 S4 attacks each, becoming Monsterous cavalry in the process.

Knifeparty
24-03-2015, 00:55
I ran mine with lances because a lot of my opponents played high elves and I encountered a lot of banners of the world dragon. My Daemon Prince has magical attacks as well as my skull crushers so I wanted a hammer that didn't have magical attacks.

However, enscorcelled weapons are better I think for most applications especially with mark of nurgle because they can grind better.

Malagor
24-03-2015, 05:04
I usually go with Khorne on my knights and ensorcelled weapons.
They are tough as nails to start with I find so that extra attack makes them hit even harder which is preferable IMO.

Evil Hypnotist
24-03-2015, 09:24
Ensorcelled Weapons were the only logical choice until the High Elf book came out, like Knifeparty I see a lot of them in my local area so I do lances normally now. Actually I have been messing about with Archaon (pre-ET) recently, with his Swords of Chaos. Str 6 on the charge with Hatred in the first round of combat is goooood! :)

Solaaris
24-03-2015, 15:00
Cheers guys, so running MoN is alright then? Just sick of red lol.

Panzer MkIV
24-03-2015, 15:15
Cheers guys, so running MoN is alright then? Just sick of red lol.

Alright? I run mine without a mark and they do fine ;)

snyggejygge
24-03-2015, 16:25
Lances & flaming banner is nice when you go monsterhunting, have had a small unit take care of abominations, giants, trolls, chimeras & even a gutstar with regen.

Kerrahn
24-03-2015, 16:57
I will use Ensorcelled Weapons most of the time, but I remember playing pre-BotWD meta when my friends said using Lances was a bad idea, until I ran a cheap (by comparison to a lot of things in my army) 5-man unit of Knights with Lances and MoK, this also being before the current FAQ removed Frenzy from their mounts, and did so much damage on the charge (15 S6 and 10 S4 attacks) that they changed their minds.

Still occasionally field the unit, since now I have Ensorcelled Weapon Skullcrushers I will use in Khorne armies, so the Knights usually target something different to the Skullcrushers.

SteveW
24-03-2015, 17:22
Unless you want to crack a sphinx or something with a 1+ the ensorcelled weapons are better. Even though you're most likely gonna be charging knights are good at war of attrition due to their 1+ (and in case of MoN -1 to hit) so the constant +1 strength comes handy.

S5 and S6 are the same against T8

Bigman
24-03-2015, 17:51
The real question a lot of WoC is "do I take Knights in special when I can take other things and have skull crushers in rare.

My own honest opinion is that in special you have chimeras and gorebeasts which are great units...trolls obviously, as well as potentially str7 dragon ogres (GW).

In a list with two units of skull crushers I don't think le it's need more Knights.

Ogres are less defensive, but if they flank a unit and all get to hit they can straight murder units.

DrMooreFlava
24-03-2015, 19:20
Not everyone likes skullcrushers. Frenzy is such a liability that they are borderline worthless against an elf army with 3 eagles and fast cav. They aren't hard to shoot off the board with cannons and bolt throwers. And maybe some people want to save their rare points for two hellcannons/giants/shaggoths or something obnoxious like that.

Not everyone wants to monster mash their army with chimeras, dragons ogres and trolls either. Also some comps are restrictive so maybe knights become a good option in tournaments.

Not everyone wants to have the same WoC army as everyone else. 2 units of crushers, 2 chimeras, a DP, several chariots and no originality.

What if someone wants an all cav army with marauder horsemen and chariots in core with 1+ saves in special and rare? There you go, it works.

Chaos Knights can let you deathstar if you want. In days past they used to be THE deathstar that birthed all other deathstars when archaon first hit the tables in 7th.

Strictly from a competitive perspective, yes you do make a solid point; however, I think there are plenty of reasons to take knights if you broaden your perspective. Not to mention the fact that you can probably buy 2nd hand knights for much less than skullcrushers.


I think knights with +1 str weapons with no mark don't handcuff me with a huge points cost. Your opponent must respect their potential while you haven't dumped all of your resources into a unit that can be countered by most armies.

Always put a musician in there, it is super important.

DrMooreFlava
24-03-2015, 19:21
double post

Solaaris
24-03-2015, 19:23
Not everyone likes skullcrushers. Frenzy is such a liability that they are borderline worthless against an elf army with 3 eagles and fast cav. They aren't hard to shoot off the board with cannons and bolt throwers. And maybe some people want to save their rare points for two hellcannons/giants/shaggoths or something obnoxious like that.

Not everyone wants to monster mash their army with chimeras, dragons ogres and trolls either. Also some comps are restrictive so maybe knights become a good option in tournaments.

Not everyone wants to have the same WoC army as everyone else. 2 units of crushers, 2 chimeras, a DP, several chariots and no originality.

What if someone wants an all cav army with marauder horsemen and chariots in core with 1+ saves in special and rare? There you go, it works.

Chaos Knights can let you deathstar if you want. In days past they used to be THE deathstar that birthed all other deathstars when archaon first hit the tables in 7th.

Strictly from a competitive perspective, yes you do make a solid point; however, I think there are plenty of reasons to take knights if you broaden your perspective. Not to mention the fact that you can probably buy 2nd hand knights for much less than skullcrushers.


I think knights with +1 str weapons with no mark don't handcuff me with a huge points cost. Your opponent must respect their potential while you haven't dumped all of your resources into a unit that can be countered by most armies.

Always put a musician in there, it is super important.

I was just about to ask about a command group :)

Groza
24-03-2015, 20:04
S5 and S6 are the same against T8
Yea, good point. S6 is good for T4-7.

mostlyharmless
25-03-2015, 17:11
For thematic reasons, I have multiple units of knights with different marks. My Knights of Slaanesh may not have as many attacks as my Knights of Khorne, but they are not as obvious a target. So they tend to get to combat with more warm bodies more often than my Knights of Khorne.

Urgat
26-03-2015, 07:56
Facing chaos knigts all the time, I can say that even if they're not skullcruchers, they remain a very serious threat. Best save a unit can have, T4, S5, cavalry, reasonable cost. Thank goodness for vomit attacks.

Dark_Kindred
26-03-2015, 08:39
10 Nurgle Knights with Full Command and Ensorcelled Weapons will push through most anything. It's particularly funny watching them crunch through something that's not worth their time---like zombies or skaven slaves---and take 0.10 unsaved wounds in return. Similar results can be achieved through judicious use of WS reducing spells. . The speed and durability is great for buying time for your foot soldiers to get into position. If you're particularly worried about morale, then something like Gleaming Pennant will allow them to operate independently for awhile.

adicto
26-03-2015, 20:11
Hows the best way to equip and use Chaos Knights nowadays?

My WoC is mostly based around nurgle, are MoN Knights worth it, or is anything but Khorne a waste? :(

Cheers

Sol
Chaos knights, like 90% of WoC stuff, are ridiculously overpriced.


6 khorne knights with lances hit like a train, but they still are single-wound dudes... every lucky arrow or random spear thrust from a lowly goblin means the instant loss of 4 attacks! In the other hand, 3 skullcrushers have the same hitting power but cannot be humbled by such mundane threats. That's why everyone prefers crushers over knights.


Tzeentchian/nurglish knight buses are not an option either, as almost every faction out there can do it better, mainly for 2 reasons:
- Acess to cheap high-save cavalry (inner circle knights, silver helms, warlocks...)
- Acess to cheap combat heroes (grand masters, nobles/masters, dreadlords...)


Long story short: chaos knights are crap.

DrMooreFlava
26-03-2015, 20:41
Yet another overly competitive point of view. What a surprise.

SuperHappyTime
26-03-2015, 20:46
Yet another overly competitive point of view. What a surprise.

Run Knights to Middenheim, siege city.
Get Skaven to dig hole under city.
Find World Self-Destruct Button, press it.

That's how Archaon runs his Chaos Knights.

DrMooreFlava
27-03-2015, 05:10
Run Knights to Middenheim, siege city.
Get Skaven to dig hole under city.
Find World Self-Destruct Button, press it.

That's how Archaon runs his Chaos Knights.

A true deathstar.

adicto
27-03-2015, 10:00
Yet another overly competitive point of view. What a surprise.
Please forgive me for posting a honest answer instead of the usual "Whatever you like is fine, dude. Peace.". I assumed he was concerned about his competitiveness when he asked if knights were worthless.

Knifeparty
27-03-2015, 15:02
Chaos Knights are far from being a "useless" unit. They are a bit overpriced for what they do, but they are not bad, and completely fine in any pick up game.

Snake1311
27-03-2015, 15:10
Please forgive me for posting a honest answer instead of the usual "Whatever you like is fine, dude. Peace.". I assumed he was concerned about his competitiveness when he asked if knights were worthless.

Khorne knights are pretty worthless, as crushers do it better. But the other marks (specifically Slaanesh or Nurgle) mean a small unit for support is pretty legit.

+1 on telling it how it is though (in your eyes, at least).

mostlyharmless
27-03-2015, 17:41
Please forgive me for posting a honest answer instead of the usual "Whatever you like is fine, dude. Peace.". I assumed he was concerned about his competitiveness when he asked if knights were worthless.

If you actually read the question and the remainder of the thread, he didn't ask if knights were worthless. He asked if Mark of Nurgle was a good build compared to Mark of Khorne. Details, son, they save lives.

popisdead
27-03-2015, 20:10
Mark of Nurgle with the +1 LD and a Lore of Death Caster in there. I would take 5 and run them 3x2 as a bunker but reform if I wanted them to beat the tar out of something.

adicto
27-03-2015, 20:32
If you actually read the question and the remainder of the thread, he didn't ask if knights were worthless. He asked if Mark of Nurgle was a good build compared to Mark of Khorne. Details, son, they save lives.
They do, grandpa. They do indeed:

... are MoN Knights worth it, or is anything but Khorne a waste?
And I replied that neither of them are worth it.

decker_cky
29-03-2015, 18:58
Skullcrushers are purely better than khorne knights, but it could be that khorne knights plus a pair of hellcannons are better than your skullcrushers and whatever else would have been.

But for the non-frenzied knights, there's a significant value in having your expensive block not be frenzied, since it prevents them from being controlled.
-Tzeentch knights with the blasted standard are an amazing character bunker, which makes cannon balls bounce off your characters on daemonic steeds (they don't like facing S3 and S4 shooting though). Tzeentch knights also stack very well with magic resistance to avoid some of the typical knight killers out there.
-Nurgle knights are very good, since they can get sunk in fast and don't take much in return (tough even for typical hard hitter units to cut through).
-Slaanesh knights I'm not big on, but I'm sure a small unit you don't have to worry about panicking that can run around the flanks is handy sometimes.

Roark
08-04-2015, 04:16
These are some damn expensive, low wounds bunkers people are talking about...

I guess I've been out of the loop for a while, though. :-)