PDA

View Full Version : Stats above 10.



henk
13-04-2015, 11:18
If a character has a stat above 10(glotkin or archaon with wounds and attacks) does the normal limit of 10 still count if something would further raise that stat?
For example archaon's frenzy, or the khorne attribute in eye of the gods or lore of nurgle attribute for the glotkin.
If the normal limit does not count, archaon would make a bit more sense with 13 attacks and the fact that 7's on the eye of the gods table count as +1 a.
I saw a battlereport in which the glotkin cast a nurgle spell and the lore attribute went of giving him 13 wounds, i thought this was wrong but want to confirm.
Thanks in advance,

Evil Hypnotist
15-04-2015, 10:57
Your stats cannot go above 10 unless the rules explicitly says so, as it does with The Glottkin. Archaon has 6 attacks (5 base and additional for frenzy), if you unleash Uz'huul in the Slayer of Kings then his base attacks are doubled to 10 but then the additional attack for frenzy and any others you may have acquired through Eye of the Gods are lost. 10 strength 5 attacks with no armour saves are still pretty badass to be fair though!

EDIT: Unless we are talking about the new Archaon Everchosen rules?

EDIT #2: Ok, so apparently Archaon Everchosen lets you have 12 attacks if you unleash Uz'huul, I guess this takes Dorghar's attacks into consideration.

EDIT # 3: There is an argument for the Extra Attack from the Frenzy stacking as it is a special rule but I would go with what is in black and white; 12 attacks if you unleash Uz'huul.

SteveW
15-04-2015, 15:00
Your stats cap at ten, that does not mean you cannot have more than ten of something like attacks. For instance a model with ten attacks and frenzy has 11 attacks because his attack stat isn't the thing giving him that extra attack. But if the effect is to double their attack stat and they have 6 attacks, they would only get four extra from the effect.

At least that is my understanding.

henk
15-04-2015, 19:48
I meant the everchosen version of archaon, should have clarified.
So to summarise the glotkin can't get 13 wounds and archaon may have 13 attacks depending on your interpertation of frenzy.
Ill ask my opponent before a game should i bring archy what his view is.
Additional question: if the glotkin suffers wounds and then trigger the lore attribute of nurgle(+1w and +1 t) does he gain wounds back if that would bring him back over ten wounds?
for example he suffered 2 wounds has 10 left would he gain 11 of would the limit count and cap the wounds at 10?

Evil Hypnotist
15-04-2015, 21:00
The Glottkin can have as many wounds as you roll the Lore for, the description says he has a "starting" wounds of 12

Maetco
16-04-2015, 07:28
henk

To my understanding neither Evil Hypnotist or SteveW even tried to answer your actual question.

To my understanding your question is basically: "Normally stats are capped at 10. What happens when a character has a rule that enables it to have a stat higher than 10? Does the unmodified stat become the new cap (eg. Glottkin W 12) or is the cap just removed?"

I would need to re-read the rules to know but based on what I remember it says in the BRB that the the stats are capped at 10 unless otherwise stated. It has been stated otherwise eg. in the case of Glottkin's W -> no cap at 10. It has not been said anywhere that the cap would change into something else other than 10 in these occations. -> To my understanding (based on what I remember now without reading the rules) if you can go above 10 there is no cap what-so-ever for that stat -> Glottkin can raise its W above 12 with the lore attribute.

SteveW
16-04-2015, 18:37
henk

To my understanding neither Evil Hypnotist or SteveW even tried to answer your actual question.

To my understanding your question is basically: "Normally stats are capped at 10. What happens when a character has a rule that enables it to have a stat higher than 10? Does the unmodified stat become the new cap (eg. Glottkin W 12) or is the cap just removed?"

I would need to re-read the rules to know but based on what I remember it says in the BRB that the the stats are capped at 10 unless otherwise stated. It has been stated otherwise eg. in the case of Glottkin's W -> no cap at 10. It has not been said anywhere that the cap would change into something else other than 10 in these occations. -> To my understanding (based on what I remember now without reading the rules) if you can go above 10 there is no cap what-so-ever for that stat -> Glottkin can raise its W above 12 with the lore attribute.

I actually did answer his question, unmodified stats are capped at ten but bonuses can bring it above that is they are not stat increases. Like wildforming a S10/T10 monster would be S10/T10.

Vulgarsty
16-04-2015, 20:07
Some stats that rely on tables are clearly capped at 10 either de jure or de facto - WS, BS, S, T. LD and I also seem clearly capped.

Movement, Wounds and Attacks however do seem like there is less intrinsic reason why they should have an absolute cap of 10.

Katastrophe
16-04-2015, 21:25
Some stats that rely on tables are clearly capped at 10 either de jure or de facto - WS, BS, S, T. LD and I also seem clearly capped.

Movement, Wounds and Attacks however do seem like there is less intrinsic reason why they should have an absolute cap of 10.

There's no intrinsic reason any stats need to be capped. Even those with charts are easily (really easily) extrapolated to accommodate larger numbers.

In reality the charts carry no real meaning as they just simply reference a formula or pattern that's easily (so easy it's obvious) ascertained.

Vulgarsty
16-04-2015, 21:40
There's no intrinsic reason any stats need to be capped. Even those with charts are easily (really easily) extrapolated to accommodate larger numbers.

In reality the charts carry no real meaning as they just simply reference a formula or pattern that's easily (so easy it's obvious) ascertained.

yes, of course they CAN be, there is as you say a pattern, but officially there ISN'T, so someone wanting to apply some WS buff to their bloodthirster then unfurling some 20 x 20 home crafted chart isn't going to wash with me I'm afraid. Buffing his attacks to any number I can (reluctantly) live with intellectually because the precedent for infinite values for input/output measures like W & A (at least with Glottkin wounds) is set. W & A operate in isolation, but charted stats require a relationship to be set out and for practical purposes that cant be infinite.

Katastrophe
16-04-2015, 23:17
yes, of course they CAN be, there is as you say a pattern, but officially there ISN'T, so someone wanting to apply some WS buff to their bloodthirster then unfurling some 20 x 20 home crafted chart isn't going to wash with me I'm afraid. Buffing his attacks to any number I can (reluctantly) live with intellectually because the precedent for infinite values for input/output measures like W & A (at least with Glottkin wounds) is set. W & A operate in isolation, but charted stats require a relationship to be set out and for practical purposes that cant be infinite.

Why is there a need for the chart at all. WS100 v WS3 hits on 3s and is hit on 5s.

S100 v T2 wounds on 2 and the converse wounds on 6.

See chart free.

Maetco
17-04-2015, 05:31
I actually did answer his question, unmodified stats are capped at ten but bonuses can bring it above that is they are not stat increases. Like wildforming a S10/T10 monster would be S10/T10.

So you are saying that even though Glottkin's unmodified W characteristic is 12 its total W is capped at 10? I'm still fairly certain that you missed the whole point of the question and didn't answer it but a question you thought was asked.

SteveW
17-04-2015, 07:06
So you are saying that even though Glottkin's unmodified W characteristic is 12 its total W is capped at 10? I'm still fairly certain that you missed the whole point of the question and didn't answer it but a question you thought was asked.


No, since army book trumps rule book it would be 12.

decker_cky
24-04-2015, 03:29
Practical example....archaon unleashes Uz'huul for 12 attacks. Then he gets savage beast cast on him. I say there's no rule limiting him anymore, so he has 15 attacks at S8.

forseer of fates
24-04-2015, 12:48
Decker would be correct.

Vulgarsty
24-04-2015, 22:16
Yep, as much as i would hate to be on the receiving end, i see no reason why movement, wounds or attacks have a limit