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Gamemaniac777
16-04-2015, 19:59
Hello all,
I am just starting to collect Ogre Kingdoms, and I was wondering a few things.
First: Are Ogres able to be highly competitive?
Second: I have a 500pt and a1000pt army list progressive army in mind and I wanted to know if I am headed in the right direction, and amything that I can add or take away to make them more competitive. Also, I am mainly going to start with a hero and the battleforce box.

The 500 point lost goes as follows:
Either:
A Butcher, level 1, with Gambler's armour and an Ironfist
Or
A Firebelly with additional hand weapon

6 x Bulls with full command and ironfists

3 x Leadbelchers

A Sabretusk
498 or 497 points

The 1000 point is as follows:
Either:
A Firebelly level one with great weapon
And
Bruiserwith heavy armour and greatweapon

Or

Level 2 Butcher (The maw) with ironfist
And
Level 1 Butcher (Heavens) with greatweapon

6 x Bulls, full command, ironfists

6 x Ironguts, full command, standard of discipline

4 x Leadbelchers, bellower

Sabretusk
Sabretusk
997 or 996 points

Any and all input is welcome and appreciated. Thank you!

Minigiant
16-04-2015, 21:44
Okay so ogres are not the top army but they are no way useless. I would say upper middle tier
They are no longer a point and shoot army of old, ogre finesse is their way to victory now

As for your lists
Firebellys are always stronger at the lower points level games

Gamemaniac777
16-04-2015, 22:41
So you are suggesting I go with the firebelly then. Okay, the model is awesome after all. What magic items go good with him, because I want to use all of the models that I get when I go into bigger point games. Also, is going level 2 worth it on him?

Aside from that, is my army composition at least decent?

theJ
17-04-2015, 13:02
*ahem*... first rule of magic: If you can't bring at least three spells, don't bother bringing magic at all. Especially not such expensive wizards as the Ogrish ones - you'll just waste them on six-diced miscasts.
For your basic 500pt list, I would simply go with a Bruiser in a unit of Ogres to batter your way through the center, a unit of Leadbelchers to blow up secondary targets, and a Sabretusk or two to fill out points... so, uhm, basically the non-character parts of your list...

At 1k pts, you can start thinking about getting more use out of your characters - the advice in favour of Firebellies is a good one, just don't forget the first rule of magic(above) - you're probably gonna need a secondary caster of some kind, either another Firebelly, a Butcher, or even a Slaughtermaster can all be made to work(assuming you can fit 'em into the list, anyway).
As for units in the big(ish) list... I feel like another infantry block wouldn't be all that helpful to you, not even such an great block as Ironguts can be - remember, the Leadbelchers, being Ogres, can fight just fine in close combat when needed.
I think you'd be better off expanding your toolbox with either some movement(Mournfangs being the standard go-to choice), or some heavier shooting(I.E. a warmachine)

EDIT: Oh, and what do you expect to be facing? Knowing your enemy can be a godsend, especially if you plan on being competitive.

But hey... that's just me - and I don't even play Ogres, so maybe I'm missing some of the details. :/

Gamemaniac777
17-04-2015, 13:24
Well I usually play against O&G, HE, DE, VC, TK, WoC, and Dwarves. I do plan on going with the mournfangs, but I am trying to get the best value out of the starter box. Would you suggest making the Ironguts into bulls instead to run horde formation 6x2? Then use the sabretusks and leadbelchers as support.

Minigiant
17-04-2015, 13:44
Still take firebellies at 500 points, they are better in combat than a bruiser thanks to their breath weapon.

Level 2 Firebelly with Ruby Ring of Ruin and you will be laughing

Gamemaniac777
17-04-2015, 13:46
That does sound good, 2 fireballs a turn can break lots of things I feel.

theJ
17-04-2015, 13:53
Well I usually play against O&G, HE, DE, VC, TK, WoC, and Dwarves. I do plan on going with the mournfangs, but I am trying to get the best value out of the starter box. Would you suggest making the Ironguts into bulls instead to run horde formation 6x2? Then use the sabretusks and leadbelchers as support.

...hm... too much variation in armies to find any easily exploitable weaknesses... gonna have to fight straight-up...
*ahem*
Getting value out of starters is something I can definitely understand and support, and as I said, Ironguts are good... you run 'em, you probably won't be disappointed by their performance, you'll just have a slightly smaller toolbox is all...
Horde formation is a no-go, though. The whole point of the Horde is to get another rank of attacks. If you don't have said rank, the formation becomes meaningless, and you'd be better served with, say, 3 ranks of 4.

EDIT: erm... pretty sure you're not allowed to have duplicate spells. lvl2 + ring would allow you to have three spells, one of which will always be a bound fireball... which is still pretty good, and probably a better bet than the bruiser I suggested above.
Another option would be to go for a lvl2 butcher with the ring, giving you both two buffs from lore of the great maw, AND balls of fire, while still retaining the ability to switch questionable spells for the signature...

Minigiant
17-04-2015, 15:13
EDIT: erm... pretty sure you're not allowed to have duplicate spells. lvl2 + ring would allow you to have three spells, one of which will always be a bound fireball... which is still pretty good, and probably a better bet than the bruiser I suggested above.
Another option would be to go for a lvl2 butcher with the ring, giving you both two buffs from lore of the great maw, AND balls of fire, while still retaining the ability to switch questionable spells for the signature...

You get 2 Fireballs. It is a common Ogre player build. Firebelly 'without' Great weapon, Dispel Scroll and Ruby Ring of Ruin. A butcher with Ruby Ring does not receive any casting boost

theJ
17-04-2015, 17:07
You get 2 Fireballs. It is a common Ogre player build. Firebelly 'without' Great weapon, Dispel Scroll and Ruby Ring of Ruin. A butcher with Ruby Ring does not receive any casting boost

uhm... main rulebook, page 37, under "casting bound spells":
"Note that bound spells never benefit from ANY casting modifiers that the user might have".
Emphasis mine.
so... no. You do not get any casting modifiers for your "second" fireball. Not even on a Firebelly.
Shame on you.
Go reread the rulebook, fifteen times, and then another fifteen times backwards :p

As for being allowed to have duplicate spells on the same wizard... the rulebook seems to imply "no", but I admit there's some unclarity on the issue, and maybe one of the erratas or FAQs have covered the issue...

EDIT: hmm... seems there indeed IS an FAQ on the subject... which indeed allows you to get a second fireball, if you want to.
But no, you still do not get any casting bonuses for it, thus making the choice between Firebelly and Butcher a lot more interesting;
Do you want the raw power of a 3-spell Firebelly, or the flexibility of a Butcher with a fireball on top?
The choice is yours... :)

Gamemaniac777
17-04-2015, 17:35
Thanks all for the help. I think I am going to try the Firebelly with ruby ring, and put him with the blob of bulls. Then hope for flaming sword of rhuin and two fireballs at level 2. Is it worth giving him a magic weapon?

andnowsteve
17-04-2015, 18:45
Do you know the ogres are rumoured to be disappearing as an independent army fairly soon? Just you said you wanted to be competitive. It might be that you have no one to compete with if everyone is playing an ogreless 9th.

Gamemaniac777
17-04-2015, 19:01
They what? Why would they be removed in 9th? Also, I didn't even think that GW was making a 9th edition. Can you let me know a bit more about this?

gogs78
17-04-2015, 19:04
Think you better have a look at the rumours section bud.........

Minigiant
17-04-2015, 19:17
uhm... main rulebook, page 37, under "casting bound spells":
"Note that bound spells never benefit from ANY casting modifiers that the user might have".
Emphasis mine.


It came out wrong, a butcher wont get a casting modifier, but the ring can boost the firebelly thanks to Kindleflame

Nicreap
17-04-2015, 20:31
The end times caused lots of shake ups, and the rumors say there will be 6 armies in the next edition, the rumors state your old armies will still be playable, but that does not mean they will be competetive. The thought is undead is combined, elves are combined, empire+dwarfs become a new super empire, chaos is combined, skaven are suspected to remain their own happy army, and based on events in Archaon ogres and orcs and goblins may be merged, with lizardmen seemingly being completely absent. These rumors may be completely wrong, but it is something you should keep in mind if you wish to make an ogre army.

Rumor is 9th is occuring anywhere between preorders next week to the middle of summer, no one is super confident on the date other than it is coming soon.

Gamemaniac777
17-04-2015, 21:12
Oh, well I do play O&C as well, so if that is true I should be pretty well off.

andnowsteve
20-04-2015, 16:09
Rumours at one point hinted at ogres with Empire (which I prefer, and is old school) but it sounds like they're joining the O&Gs, yep.

theJ
22-04-2015, 10:33
It came out wrong, a butcher wont get a casting modifier, but the ring can boost the firebelly thanks to Kindleflame

oh, ok, yeah, that makes a lot more sense

Earl_UK
24-04-2015, 17:25
IF Ogres could go with Choas, O&G and bee dogs of war that would fit well, sort of saying they have lost there empire so to speak but are still around as a race.

forseer of fates
24-04-2015, 18:22
Atm no body is around as a race.