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Emperor Karl Franz
27-04-2015, 22:42
I'll be playing in a tournament next month with the following requirements:

- 2000 Points
- No Special Characters
- 50% Lord/Hero Choices
- No End Times units or rules (aside from the above)

Could experienced Empire players offer me a list to try out in this tournament? Thanks.

forseer of fates
27-04-2015, 23:48
wizard lord, l4 dispel, light, captain bsb, priest, heavy armour and shield. 38 halberds banner, 2 detachment's of ten archers, 10 archers with banner and det of 6 archers (500 points of core exactly) 2 units of 4 demis with banners, one with banner of fire, other with gleaming pennant, 2 steam tanks. should be about 1878. That gives you some points to play with.

Its built to deal with the 6 standard scenarios, building scenario is only reason for light, otherwise it would probably be death or shadow.

Ramius4
28-04-2015, 02:58
10 archers with banner and det of 6 archers

That's an illegal detachment, they can only have up to 50% of the models of the parent unit. Although a person could just make the parent unit 11 models and the detachment 5, so it's easily fixed.

That being said, the army list you suggest seems really boring to play, and to face.

Emperor Karl Franz
28-04-2015, 09:58
I'm not keen on having a list with so many archers. How about this? Does this look good?


LORDS
369 GENERAL OF THE EMPIRE
Full Plate Armor, Runefang, Enchanted Shield, Pidgeon Plucker Pendant
Imperial Griffon

225 BATTLE WIZARD LORD
Hand Weapon, Dispel Scroll
Level 4 Wizard (Lore of Shadows)

HEROES
109 CAPTAIN OF THE EMPIRE
Hand Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse
Battle Standard Bearer

CORE
415 KNIGHTLY ORDERS (14)
Hand Weapon, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Barded Warhorse; Inner Circle Knights
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer (Steel Standard)

105 ARCHERS (15)
Hand Weapon, Bow

SPECIAL
277 DEMIGRYPH KNIGHTS (4)
Hand Weapon, Halberd, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Demigryph
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer (Banner of Swiftness)

RARE
250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol

250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol

forseer of fates
28-04-2015, 13:21
That depends Ramius, if your going to a tourney to win then that's a different kettle of fish, every army has a few competitive lists they can write. Its not the list I would use at home cos I would rather play for fun. Tournament is different.

The general on the griffon is a huge waste of points, esp if you come across any form of artillery which every army has access too. The griffon is so easy to kill.

Previous list was supposed to be 11 archers in the parent unit :P If your going for the knights go for a grand master. Once I had my 2 units of 4 demis eat thru an entire 2k army of brets b4 the infantry and steam tanks caught up :P and archers are purely there to provide a bunker, be a nuisance, walk into mangler squigs etc etc for 7 points they can do what they like :P

Emperor Karl Franz
28-04-2015, 15:28
I'll give the Grand Master a thought. I was thinking the General on the Griffon because the winner of the last two local tournamaments used a lot of big monsters, so I wanted the option of being able to fly around and catch them with some auto-wounds from a Runefang in case they survive the fire from my Steam Tanks.

I'll also see about picking up an extra box of Demigryph Knights, as I'm currently sitting on six. Not sure if I'll do two units of 4, but I'll definitely keep that option open.

Emperor Karl Franz
28-04-2015, 17:36
Okay, here're two variant armies, replacing the General on Imperial Griffon with Karl Franz on a Barded Warhorse or a Grand Master with a Runefang. The differences are in red.



LORDS
394 KARL FRANZ, THE EMPEROR
Full Plate Armor, Ghal Maraz, The Silver Seal, Barded Warhorse

225 BATTLE WIZARD LORD
Hand Weapon, Dispel Scroll
Level 4 Wizard (Lore of Shadows)


HEROES
109 CAPTAIN OF THE EMPIRE
Hand Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse
Battle Standard Bearer


CORE
415 KNIGHTLY ORDERS (14)
Hand Weapon, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Barded Warhorse; Inner Circle Knights
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer (Steel Standard)


105 ARCHERS (15)
Hand Weapon, Bow


SPECIAL
252 DEMIGRYPH KNIGHTS (4)
Hand Weapon, Halberd, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Demigryph
Inner Circle Preceptor, Standard Bearer


RARE
250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol


250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol


The second option is as follows:



LORDS
259 GRAND MASTER
Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse, Runefang, The Other Trickster's Shard


225 BATTLE WIZARD LORD
Hand Weapon, Dispel Scroll
Level 4 Wizard (Lore of Shadows)


HEROES
109 CAPTAIN OF THE EMPIRE
Hand Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse
Battle Standard Bearer


CORE
415 KNIGHTLY ORDERS (14)
Hand Weapon, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Barded Warhorse; Inner Circle Knights
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer (Steel Standard)


98 ARCHERS (14)
Hand Weapon, Bow


SPECIAL
393 DEMIGRYPH KNIGHTS (6)
Hand Weapon, Halberd, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Demigryph
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer (Banner of Swiftness)


RARE
250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol


250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol


How do those look?

Emperor Karl Franz
28-04-2015, 18:39
I was looking at the Arch Lector, and I was thinking if that'd make for a viable alternative to the Grand Master. Sure, he won't be as killy, but since I'm not counting on him to kill as much I'll be able to protect him more, making him more survivable (I came up with 1+ Save, 4+ Ward Save). Put him on horseback with the Inner Circle Knights and they'd benefit from first turn Hatred as well as his Battle Prayers beefing them up. Does that make for a useful option?

forseer of fates
28-04-2015, 19:21
There's little point in arch lectors, they are just an expensive priest, make sure if your having archer units they have banners, if the tournament is using the standard scenario's. Inner circle knights, tanks and demis eat monsters for breakfast :P remembering characters don't benefit from the hatred:(, cheapy priest on a horse would do. KF is very nice ion a horse.

Emperor Karl Franz
28-04-2015, 23:30
Okay. So I've decided to opt for the following list.


LORDS
394 KARL FRANZ, THE EMPEROR
Full Plate Armor, Ghal Maraz, The Silver Seal, Barded Warhorse

225 BATTLE WIZARD LORD
Hand Weapon, Dispel Scroll
Level 4 Wizard (Lore of Shadows)


HEROES
109 CAPTAIN OF THE EMPIRE
Hand Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse
Battle Standard Bearer


CORE
415 KNIGHTLY ORDERS (14)
Hand Weapon, Great Weapon, Full Plate Armor, Barded Warhorse; Inner Circle Knights
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer (Steel Standard)


94 ARCHERS (12)
Hand Weapon, Bow
Standard Bearer


SPECIAL
262 DEMIGRYPH KNIGHTS (4)
Hand Weapon, Halberd, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Barded Demigryph
Inner Circle Preceptor, Musician, Standard Bearer


RARE
250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol


250 STEAM TANK
Hand Weapon, Repeater Pistol

We'll see how that works out for me.

forseer of fates
28-04-2015, 23:42
Do you really want champs and musicians, most of the time they do little most of the time, its 40 points. I would recommend the banner of eternal flame for the battle standard or demis, if you go with battle standard then gleaming pennant always works nicely on the demis. Lance for the captain? I really really wouldn't' take halberds on the demis, it takes away their 1+ save, which means they have to start worrying about s4 infantry.

Emperor Karl Franz
28-04-2015, 23:49
Well, I already modeled them with halberds, so I'm not going to be ripping them apart to replace them. Besides, I figured they'll likely end up in protracted combats, so better for them to be throwing out consistent Str 5 attacks rather than Str 6/Str 5 on the charge, and then Str 4/Str 5 thereafter.

forseer of fates
28-04-2015, 23:56
On hindsight I wish I had built mine with the halberds, cos all my lances are broken , they are quite spindly.

Emperor Karl Franz
29-04-2015, 00:05
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I hate transporting Warhammer armies. So many fiddly spears, lances, and so on which could break. That was the bright side of a pewter model. If a lance got bent you could bend it right back, but a plastic lance? Ugh...

forseer of fates
29-04-2015, 00:50
The new cases don't look at all lance/warhammer friendly either.

Emperor Karl Franz
29-04-2015, 18:08
I don't feel very comfortable about putting Warhammer models in them, either. I think I'm just going to magnetize the movement trays and stick them in a fishing box with drawers or something similar.

forseer of fates
29-04-2015, 22:17
Magnets. heresy :P