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Mephiston_Lord_of_Death
09-05-2015, 17:13
Just got done assembling a 2250 pt list for a tournament I plan to play in the coming months. Haven't been able to play test it a whole lot so looking for input on it.

Lord
Vamp Lord - shield, H armor, Hell steed, Ogre Blade, N Shroud
(powers) - Dread Knight, Beguile

Heroes
Vamp BSB - H Armor, G Weapon, Screaming Banner
(powers) - Fear incarnite

Nec - Lvl 2, MoD, Book of Archon

Core
30 Skeleton Warriors - Full command, spears
12 Skeleton Warriors
20 Zombies - Full Command
20 Zombies - Full Command
10 Crypt Ghouls
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

Special
20 GG - Full Command, G Weapons, Banner of the Barrows

3 Vargheists

10 Black Knights - Full Command, Barding and Lances

Rare
Terrorgheist

The vision I have for the Army really is the BSB being placed into the GG, Almost ensuring that anyone they fight without the immune to psycology rule will fail their fear test. Nec is bused with the large skeleton unit. Also I am able to threaten a flank rather quickly with the Terrorgheist, Vargheists, and Lord all having fly

I have considered dropping the Vamp BSB for a Whight King BSB for the Higher Leadership as well as dropping the Black Knights and playing with some points to throw some Hexwraiths out there.

I look forward to your comments!

Ahnarras
12-05-2015, 17:45
Well, how hard is your tournament? Your list seems to be.. really nice, i would love to play against and all, but it's... not strong. Sorry :/

- Vamp lord: with his WS, he will hit on 3+ anyways almost everything. The dread knight seems like a waste, reroll to hit would be far better. Beguile is alright, but then he miss a bit of... stuff. Nightshroud is good but beware, the effect doesn't apply to rear rank, select your charge carefully. Also, he doesn't have a ward. He's your general, you need him, and he's flying around without a ward. Seems kamikaze to me. Last point : you have a lot of infantry, that need your lord to march. That will destroy his purpose, as he won't be able to fly around. Believe me, you don't want your lord, terrorgheist and vargheist charging T2, and your infantry coming T4....

- BSB: he will die, and fast. Like, so really fast. The fear bomb is a nice tactic (but some armies won't care at all about that, remember), but putting the banner on the BSB is, again, a bad idea. He need a better armor, he need a ward, he need something magic. If you really want a cheap BSB, go for the WK. T5 and 3W help, if only a little.

- You are going to a 1000+ point tournament, and you don't have a lvl 4, nor do you have a dispel scroll. It will go ugly fast... Take a master necromancer, and have the lvl 2 or your vampire going with a dispel scroll. It's not fun, and i would not say it's mandatory for a friendly game, but in a tournament... a single purple sun, and you are done.

- you don't have enough bodies. 30 Skellies won't stop someone more than two round, and a real combat block will just oneshoot them. Also, spears are useless here: if they are in horde, you gain no attack / if they are 5-wide, 5 more A with WS2/S3 won't matter at all. Better go for the parry save... Oh, and you don't want your caster to be B2B with your opponent. That's why you usually have a second, small unit of skellies/zombies behind the main line to escort the necro.
- 12 skellies, could be good for the necromancer. But if your opponent have first turn and is shooting or magic heavy, he could just destroy your magic phase. I would add at least 3 guy, just in case. A musicien for swift reform could be handy.
- 20 zombies: what are they here for? If you want chaff, wolf are better. If you want to tarpit someone, you need more zombie. Like, 50 minimum. To stop someone, maybe, two rounds. Real tarpitting start a 60-80 (depending on how confident you are in your Nehek...)
- 2x5 wolf, chaff is good.

- GG: again, not enough. Add 5, even 10 for a standard combat block. Add more for a deathstar. If you want a fear bomb, i would recommand to put the screaming banner on them. Banner of barrow is great, but you have to few attack for it to matter. If you go with 30GG in horde, or at least 7-wide, you can keep barrow.
- vargheist are ok, but they are just here for flank. Don't throw 3 vargheist in the front of a real combat unit.
- Black knight are ok. Maybe they would benefit more from the barrow banner. Or the movement one.
- TG is always good.

Hope it helped :)

Mephiston_Lord_of_Death
14-05-2015, 02:11
Thanks for your reply!!

Unfortunately I have not been able to play much at all so this list is very much based off of speculation and the type of army I "envisioned" if you will. I am confused on somethings though.

You mention in most of the entries that I do not have nearly enough models for them to be truly effective. With a 2250 list, what do I drop? As for the characters I spread them out as much as I could and gave them as much as I thought I could while still being within the point limit. From what I read I think you're saying to drop the BSB all together, and go with a Master Nec and then a super beefed up hero Vamp? I considered dropping the Book of Archon for a dispel scroll being as they are similar point cost.

As for core, should I drop 20 zombies and transition their point cost to more skeles? The reason I had made 2 units of twenty was because (again not play tested but from what I came up with in my head) I planned on through t2 - t3 having most of my army fairly co located around each other, so as to get as much out of 3 invocations as I could, especially when it came to the zombie units.

I will def rethink the rules on my Vamp lord. To be honest I wanted to play a very lore specific Blood Knight Vamp Lord, but being as this is a tourney I am prepping for I want him to be as good as he can be. The 3 units of flying was more in consideration for a later game flank move if obviously the game allowed for it.

Also do you suggest that i drop the Black Knights all together and just add more GG?

The last question I had and the one that will show just how noobish I am :). I have seen the word Chaff used a lot, though I am sort of unsure as to exactly what the term refers too. Could you clear that up for me?

Thank you so much for your reply, you have already given me a ton to think about. I look forward to seeing you next post. Thanks again!

Ahnarras
14-05-2015, 06:11
Hehe, no problem :)

For the character, ask your tournament's organizer if the End Time rules will be play or not. Specifically, the new 50% pt limit in lord and heros. If it is, you will not have many problem to put everything you want in your lord.
The most common army for vampire in tournament is a blender lord, something to deliver it in combat, lot of chaff, and TG/hexwraith on taste.
I'm not saying it's fun to play with or against, and i'm not saying you will win with, as most people learn to deal with this list since it is so often use.
But it's a strong list, and not to hard to master, so could be a good start.

The BSB is pretty much useless in a vampire army. You could still keep the vampire hero if you want more attack power, but taking him only to have BSB is not useful.
So dropping him to have a blender lord and a lvl 4 is a common choice. The more risky one is to put the lvl 4 on the vampire : save you point, but if he die you have pretty much lost.

A blender lord is the most powerful combo for a melee vampire. It inclues a way to have a huge strengh (ogre blade, potion of strengh, lance), a way to hit with ease (the blade with +1 to hit, or always strike first), and the vampiric power that give you more Attack when you kill stuff. Usually, add a way to have at least a 2+ armor save, and a 4++ ward. He also need mobility to strike where he should, so a mount he's preferable.
He's often play in a bus of black knight, as he would be to slow on foot, and too vulnerable to canon if alone.

Having lot of little zombies units to buff them up with nehek is fun, but if you wanna do that, you will need a lot more than a lvl 2. First, you need unit of 40+ zombies to begin with. Even with a good magic phase, you won't have more than ~20-30 zombies additionnal zombie. And if 60-70 zombies could hold their ground two or three turn, don't expect 30 zombies to stay more than one turn. If lucky.
You will also need a lvl 4, probably the black periapt and/or other stuff to have magic dice, a few lvl 2 to spamm more Nehek, and a mortis engine. It's another good kind of army, but it's very difficult to master it.

Lore is good, but it's rarely effective. Still, a vampire with a lot of attack, great strenght and mounted, could be a very credible blood dragon :p

I would keep the black knight for a beginner. They are fast. GG are slow, and you will need to be a really, really good player to engage them in a combat that you could win. Most good player will just avoid them. It's more difficult to avoid a M7-M8 unit.

Chaff is a bit hard to explain. To put it simple, you take a unit for a point cost as low as possible (5 wolf without champ must be one of the best chaff in the game), and you use them to make your opponent loose time. Usually, you do that by putting them in front of an unit, in an angle that make the overrun a bad choice. So they have to lost a turn in killing your unit that won't give them much victory point and reform. An most advanced technique is to make the same thing, but in a way that the ennemy unit, after the fight, will be in a perfect position to be charge by your real combat unit.
If you want more detail, there are a few guide on the internet.

Good luck for your list building :)