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Oogie boogie boss
12-05-2015, 10:15
Hello all, been a long time! How's everyone doing? Are we all enjoying the falling meteors and giant dead/plague guys currently besetting the warhammer world/hand of the ret-con avenger?

Me and a group of friends are having a mini-tournament amongst ourselves at the end of June. The rules are simple- 2,000pts, try not to be too min-max uber hard with your list making and standard 8th rules apply.

The armies I think I'll be facing are (probably):

Lizardmen
Empire
At least 1 Dwarf army
Undead Legions/VC
WoC
Skaven
OnG

So, I'm thinking of running a slightly unusual double giant list for my Savage Orc force, and wondered if people thought it was viable? It goes thusly:

Lords:
Savage Orc Warboss- Basha's Axe, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation- 250pts

Heroes:
Savage Orc Shaman- Lvl. 2, LSH- 155pts

Savage Orc Big Boss- BSB, Razor Standard, Extra Choppa- 147pts

Core:
40 Savage Orc Big Uns- Command, Extra Choppa, Big Stabba- 455pts

40 Savage Orcs- Command, Extra Choppa, Big Stabba- 375pts

Special:
6 Savage Orc Boar Boys- Command, Shield, Spears, Flame Banner- 177pts

Rare:
Giant- Warpaint- 220pts
Giant- Warpaint- 220pts

Total: 1,999pts

So.........thoughts? I've tried to go for a 'bag o' hammers' effect, and have lots of hard hitting units to create a mass of dangerous targets. It might work.......


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Spiney Norman
12-05-2015, 10:42
Umm, not sure what to say, the Giants are *effectively* dead points before you throw yet more points at them to give them the (almost worthless) war paint save, are you sure you can't be persuaded to throw some savage goblins into the mix and take an Arachnarok?

The savage boar Boyz are similarly dubious, I would usually field at least ten of them, I'm also not sure if your foot-orc units need that many Boyz, while horde formation is good in theory, I've found it to be more restrictive (movement wise) than helpful when your unit is on 25mm bases.

In Dark Trees
12-05-2015, 13:52
Sadly, Giants are nearly worthless. They are too fragile to justify their expense and too fickle to be truly competitive. I love the models, but I also love NOT giving points away to my enemies.

Oogie boogie boss
12-05-2015, 15:11
You see, I'm a big giant fan, and have found that, whilst Giants are sometimes just big cannon targets, if used correctly and against the right target they can be utter fiends.

Case for the defence- the last game I played was against an empire army fielding an 'elite' empire force; that is to say Balthazar Gelt, 50 Halberdiers with a BSB, warrior priest and witch hunter in the unit, 5 ICK, 3 Demigryphs, A Stank, a cannon, 10 Outriders and a Helblaster.

It was a close run game, but during the process my giant (I was only running 1) killed the Stank and single handedly broke and caught the ICK. His presence also had the psychological effect of making my opponent manoeuvre in a much more restricted way.

Now, I know Giants are over ousted for their stats, and are temperamental in their effect. But I've always had the feeling that when mine has suffered it's because of a lack of support. My theory is that 2 giants in tandem will put a dent in most things, excel at dealing with other monsters/armoured units and at the very least provide a big scary target to occupy my opponent's shooting, allowing my blocks to smash home in numbers.

The alternative is that I take a unit of 6 River Trolls (which I find do consistently okay, but never great), a chariot and another shaman/big boss on boar (to give the Boar Boys more oooomph and turn them from war machine/chaff hunters into an impact unit).

Tbf I do agree two giants is a risk, but I would emphasise that I'll be playing quite fluffy players, so won't be facing uber hard lists, and they would both look awesome and be really fun.

As for the Arok, it's a great model and an awesome unit, but my army is strictly gobbo free. That being said, I am beginning to think about changing that so that the army becomes a 'savage' OnG army proper, so savage gobbos, Aroks and other such stuff could be a possibility in the future.........


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Folomo
12-05-2015, 17:31
TBH, this list sounds extremely easy to deal with.
(Almost) All your army suffers from frenzy and you don't have any way to deal with chaff. A single chaff unit will put into disarray or stall your whole army.

Ignoring this, IME the best way to use monsters is to saturate. That way something will survive.
Another option would be to have a screen of trolls (2 is enough), so they grant heavy cover against shooting for the giant and have a chance to catch cannonballs.

Oogie boogie boss
12-05-2015, 18:14
Tbh I've rarely had too much of an issue with Frenzy. My horde units will get the general's Ld. 9, and the boar boys, as with most of the army tbh, want to get into combat as soon as possible.

But I take your point. Each turn will be 3 animosity tests, 3 frenzy tests and a stupidity test. So often any sense of battle line/plan doesn't last long. But that's Orcs for you!


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Folomo
12-05-2015, 18:34
IME, Its overruning wildly the problem, not frenzy check (those also are a problem sometimes too).

Your opponent can put a unit of chaff at an angle in from of your unit. You can either charge or stay put.
If you charge, you are forced to overrun at an angle.
Then you either:
a) Expose your flank and anything with a minimum of combat capacity (and 2 ranks) will be able to charge and break your unit. (have done this with skeleton warriors even)
b) Are out of LOS of anything, and have to reform next turn, losing 2 rounds to a single chaff piece.

Also, if you are running your hordes close by (which I assume you will do, to benefit from both BSB and IP on both units) a single chaff piece can actually stop BOTH units this way.

Its the easiest way to deal with frenzied hordes IME.

Oogie boogie boss
12-05-2015, 18:55
Good point, it is a risk. Atm my hope is that the Boar Boys can do some chaff clearing and maybe go war machine hunting, or I can chaff clear with some magic (Foot/gaze etc).

It's not foolproof, but with this army nothing is. Nothing I have is really going to negate the unpredictability element, it's the nature of the theme.

Tbh, with M6, Terror and no frenzy, the Giants could sweep away some chaff as well.


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Aaron85
15-05-2015, 03:18
Most of your stuff is tightly going to wander together. The savage boys will be okay but you'll most likely put your characters in the Big Un unit to make it super killie and once it's dealt with the rest will be picked apart.