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View Full Version : Missing Horus Heresy stories (including spoilers up to Vengeful Spirit)



Karhedron
02-06-2015, 14:55
I have just finished Vengeful Spirit and I was surprised (to put it mildly) but the sudden reappearance of Garviel Loken who I had last seen (apparently dying) at the end of Galaxy in Flames. Not only was he still alive but he was somehow back on Terra and chilling with Malcador and Russ.

After recovering from my :wtf: moment, I hit google and found out about the Black Library audio adventures (which also introduce several of the other Knights Errant). I was vaguely aware of the Audio adventures before but I thought they were strictly to flesh out background ideas (such as the origin of the Sanguinor).

It seems off-putting that these stories feed directly back into the main HH novels which means that you can no longer follow story threads by reading the novels alone. Have novelised versions of these audio stories been published anywhere? I am not averse to audio dramas but I prefer to enjoy my novels without hearing other people's portrayals of characters spoiling my ideas of how they sound and speak in my head.

7788
02-06-2015, 15:21
Loken's survival is part of the Knights Errant storyline. The entire Knights Errant thread was originally released in audio dramas, mainly in the Garro Series. None of these have been adapted to prose, but the scripts of several have been published. Scripts however are a different kind of beast, and they are an acquired taste, imo.
I absolutely agree that Loken's survival and even more, the KE plotline is a major part of the Horus Heresy, and it contradicts BL's past pronouncements that no major plotlines will be published outside of the officially numbered books. Certainly, imo, if Nemesis or Vulkan Lives deserved a novel, the Knights Errant did too.

EDIT: also look at the short Luna Mendax which features Loken again. Although it doesn't quite have the retroactive importance of the Garro Series/Knights Errant plot, it fills in a gap or two.

jareddm3
02-06-2015, 19:58
Vengeful Spirit is guilty of requiring more non-novel material to understand then any other novel in the series by far. Off the top of my head, the short stories Daemonology, Little Horus, The Devine Adoratrice, and the entire Garro series, both audio and micro shorts, are needed to get all of the things going on in Vengeful Spirit. Between Loken being alive and Mortarion's huge change in regards to sorcery, I can't imagine anyone not getting confused if they hadn't read the related stories.

khirsath
02-06-2015, 23:39
I was wondering about Mortarion's change of mind. Which one of those stories covered it? Any synopsis you could give? I don't mind spoilers, but others might not.

jareddm3
03-06-2015, 02:26
The story can be found in Daemonology. It's actually quite good and does a fine job explaining his change of heart.

The short of it is after his fight with Jaghatai Khan, he realizes that all those around him, Horus, Typhon, Lorgar, have become so involved with sorcery. He's adamant that he wants nothing to do with it but seeing it in action by his allies very slowly starts to break his disgust. That perhaps maybe there is something to this garbage after all. He raids a former Thousand Sons protectorate world, in search of a bound daemon that was being put to use by that legion, and whatever information he can find in controlling it. Clearly having no idea what he's doing but determined to figure it out on his own, all while the daemon laughs at his amateurish attempts. Of course the daemon already recognizes Mortarion as the chosen of Nurgle, and through trickery and violence, is able to get Mortarion to unlock the sorcerous potential he has. Mortarion is disgusted by the while process but knows that if he doesn't want to be left behind in this strange new galaxy of magic and sorcery, he has to at least get used to it.

The whole story is interspersed with flashbacks to when Mortarion was first on Terra, and was assured by Malcador that eventually, all trace of psykers and sorcery would be removed from the Imperium, with Magnus being one of the first to be reigned in, as they stand before the construction site of what would become the webway project

Razios
04-06-2015, 20:32
The story can be found in Daemonology. It's actually quite good and does a fine job explaining his change of heart.

The short of it is after his fight with Jaghatai Khan, he realizes that all those around him, Horus, Typhon, Lorgar, have become so involved with sorcery. He's adamant that he wants nothing to do with it but seeing it in action by his allies very slowly starts to break his disgust. That perhaps maybe there is something to this garbage after all. He raids a former Thousand Sons protectorate world, in search of a bound daemon that was being put to use by that legion, and whatever information he can find in controlling it. Clearly having no idea what he's doing but determined to figure it out on his own, all while the daemon laughs at his amateurish attempts. Of course the daemon already recognizes Mortarion as the chosen of Nurgle, and through trickery and violence, is able to get Mortarion to unlock the sorcerous potential he has. Mortarion is disgusted by the while process but knows that if he doesn't want to be left behind in this strange new galaxy of magic and sorcery, he has to at least get used to it.

The whole story is interspersed with flashbacks to when Mortarion was first on Terra, and was assured by Malcador that eventually, all trace of psykers and sorcery would be removed from the Imperium, with Magnus being one of the first to be reigned in, as they stand before the construction site of what would become the webway project

Well.....that is quite of a dick move from Malcador, dosent it?

Karhedron
05-06-2015, 10:53
And here we were thinking that monumental stupidity was the Emperor's thang. :D

I think that part of the problem is the Emperor didn't always like or appreciate the personalities and attitudes that the Primarchs picked up from their respective foster-cultures. Had they remained in his lab, they would probably have been raised, educated and conditioned in a controlled setting before being let out in the galaxy.

As it is, the Emperor ended up with 20(1) pegs of varying shapes and sizes that he tried to cram into the 20 round holes he had carefully planned for centuries.

Given all the resentment and misunderstandings, it is not a mystery that Chaos were able to corrupt the Primarchs. All they really had to do was light the blue touch-paper and stand well back.

Poncho160
05-06-2015, 12:14
Has a book been put out descibing Mortarion's and the Death Guards fall yet? Or is that yet to come?

Snake Tortoise
05-06-2015, 12:24
The Loken coming back thing baffled me too. I didn't like it, it's bad form on BL's part to bring people back from the dead in ridiculous audio dramas and then continue the series of books as if everyone is following everything they put out at all times.

Imagine J.K. Rowling did something like that with Harry Potter? If book 6 opens with Harry chatting with Cedric Diggory and absolutely no explanation for a dead guy reappearing? :p


Has a book been put out descibing Mortarion's and the Death Guards fall yet? Or is that yet to come?

No, hopefully it's still to come but to my (limited) knowledge there's nothing in the pipeline.

Karhedron
05-06-2015, 12:58
Has a book been put out descibing Mortarion's and the Death Guards fall yet? Or is that yet to come?

The Death Guard are in the curious position of being even more ambiguous than the Alpha Legion. They have featured as supporting cast in several books that have hinted at their intentions but never been centre-stage.

Mortarion declared for Horus right at the beginning and without any obvious signs of prior-corruption (unlike the Emperor's Children who were already falling under the sway of Slaanesh before Istvaan).Some books have shown some of their development but we are a long way from having the full story that we have for many of the other legions.

7788
05-06-2015, 13:06
Imo, Loken coming back has nothing to do with continuity, coherence or writing good fluff. It has to do with selling FW models, and expanding playable scenarios for these models, good fluff be damned. Another indication this may be the case:

Even Ferrus Manus got resurrected, albeit as a clone created by Bile. But this also may mean that your model's use does not stop with the Dropsite Massacre. Which is right, I suppose, given that these are not the cheapest models ever.

jareddm3
05-06-2015, 13:49
Even Ferrus Manus got resurrected, albeit as a clone created by Bile. But this also may mean that your model's use does not stop with the Dropsite Massacre. Which is right, I suppose, given that these are not the cheapest models ever.

Ferrus's clone has nothing to do with that. It's a tie-in to Talon of Horus, where Fabius is able to create a clone of Horus. Ferrus is his attempts to perfect the process.


Imagine J.K. Rowling did something like that with Harry Potter? If book 6 opens with Harry chatting with Cedric Diggory and absolutely no explanation for a dead guy reappearing?
An inaccurate comparison as Harry Potter was written by a single author. The appropriate comparison would be to the Marvel or DC universe, which 40k can certainly match in terms of cross-reference material and side references. Loken's return in either of those universes would be met with a simple side bar stating, "For Loken's return see 'Garro #3'"

7788
05-06-2015, 18:18
Ferrus's clone has nothing to do with that. It's a tie-in to Talon of Horus, where Fabius is able to create a clone of Horus. Ferrus is his attempts to perfect the process.

Everything GW does has to do with models & gaming. That's their primary business, and that's what uses up most of their capital. The fluff (including stories) is a tie-in to the core business. In the particular case of the short Imperfect, currently a wholly unnecessary story, Daemon Primarch Fulgrim orders Bile to make him a perfect clone of Manus because he apparently has regrets (?!?!). The clone acquires, at least in part, the consciousness of the actual Manus. It is more a true replica than a mindless clone, and can therefore easily substitute the dead guy. Other than that, as a Horus Heresy story, it is pointless, at least for now. If it becomes important later, I expect that somebody may justifiably start a thread to complain about shorts that introduce major points.

Razios
06-06-2015, 20:46
And here we were thinking that monumental stupidity was the Emperor's thang. :D

I think that part of the problem is the Emperor didn't always like or appreciate the personalities and attitudes that the Primarchs picked up from their respective foster-cultures. Had they remained in his lab, they would probably have been raised, educated and conditioned in a controlled setting before being let out in the galaxy.

As it is, the Emperor ended up with 20(1) pegs of varying shapes and sizes that he tried to cram into the 20 round holes he had carefully planned for centuries.

Given all the resentment and misunderstandings, it is not a mystery that Chaos were able to corrupt the Primarchs. All they really had to do was light the blue touch-paper and stand well back.

The issue with the emperor is that sometimes he acts like a soporting father with a big plan and others like a dictator who sometimes have to punch his sons so they do what he wants, its not strange for them to rebel, after all even them dont understand his father....I ask myself if someone actually know the emperor at all

ArtificerArmour
07-06-2015, 11:25
I was *aware* of loken returning. but im suprised more wasnt made to recap it in vengeful spirit.

the death guard didnt really fully fall until they made their way to terra. however, Typhon has begun falling slightly in the short Lions Command (?) from the primarchs books.

Alot of what happens in The Primarchs is relevant to the plot arcs - infact angel exterminatus would be utterly baffling if one didnt read the emperor's children short, much like venfeful spirit was baffling if you hadnt read angel exterminatus