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Chevron_Locked
11-06-2015, 04:08
Hey all.

So I have a game tomorrow at a local hobby store, I have never fought the opponent before and he is bring an undisclosed army to the table. As in, don't know what race or style I will be facing. I play Eldar and have plenty of units to choose from, and usually have a good knack for spending my points wisely and effectively.

I'm curious to see how do you build up a list to face such. Do you go for a nice compromised balance of everything or do you take a list that has worked well before? Or do you go fluff breaking, cheese melting and friend losing???

Althenian Armourlost
11-06-2015, 04:13
Take a balanced, friendly list using a CAD so you can have a quadgun and maybe a single flier. Seeing as Eldar are 'so hot right now' a friendly list should be able to decently handle what he brings well enough for it to be an interesting game. If you are worried about him spamming cheese or taking a deathstar, just play maelstrom. It reduces the effectiveness of scummy lists and rewards tactical play more.

T10
13-06-2015, 09:48
I would be suspicious of my opponent's secrecy. It falls natural to me to assume that this person feels the element of surprise is important to his enjoyment of the game, which again leads me to assume that he really wants to win. In this case I'd expect him to bring an army that has invested heavily into one type of units, e.g. fliers, tanks, assault troops or something.

In return, you might want to build an army with its own direction of focus. You can guess that he'll be focusing his strength in one area, it's hard to guess what area that might be.

Now, you may not know him but is it reasonable to expect him to know you? Does your own regular army have any obvious weaknesses/reliances that a "surprise army" can focus on? That would be the first thing to change up.

-T10

mikesmight123
13-06-2015, 14:01
You shouldn't have nay problems if u bring a balanced CAD, if he goes ott on his list and u being a nice army, u wont be frowned upon by playing eldar.

Asura Varuna
13-06-2015, 14:07
A balanced Eldar CAD list that isn't deliberately gimping itself with massed Storm Guardian/Ranger picks is still a pretty solid matchup for the cheesiest of the cheese from some codexes... Take some models that you think look cool, avoid spamming the D, don't bring a Wraithknight etc. Even if you lose you'll still get a good game and hopefully it'll be entertaining for him if he's so concerned about winning.

dale
13-06-2015, 15:11
Just design an army that you think you would enjoy playing. You can never be truly prepared for everything.

hazmiter
13-06-2015, 15:25
Go for balance, eldar have a tonne of specialist units from what ive heard, "dont take a wraith knight".... Ummm do take :D its an awesome model, its a centre piece. That and if your running balanced, the wraith knights going to be a good fallback if need be.
Especially since your opponent is secretive about list and race, if he knows you play eldar (and i assume he does) and knows what units you prefer to use (which is a possibility), be prepared for him to go right for your primary play list army's weak points.
Ive versed list tailorers before and theyre no fun, especially since i pre make my lists, pack what i need and play as is, and when some one takes an army designed to pick you apart specifically.... Yeah thats not fun. (I play all comer lists, no over specialisation).

Flipmode
13-06-2015, 15:40
That is a good point... Is your race a mystery to him?

If not, beware of cheese justified as 'well Eldar are OP, it said so on the Internet so I have brought an almighty bag of douche.'

hazmiter
13-06-2015, 15:48
^^ just that exactly. Eldar when played balanced and not over specialising are really fun to verse, tricky to come to grips with, but thats the way they play, ive seen old mechdar, wave spam, the biker weirdos (seer star??) but thankfully never played against those builds.

BillyBones
13-06-2015, 23:03
Another question is how many points are you playing? If it's around 1000pts, have 2-3 units of troops, something that can deal with fliers, but also can do something else, something to deal with AV14, something to deal with backfield heavy weapons, one or two pie plates can come handy and something with high AP or lots of shots to force saves. I guess I'd bring some Swooping hawks, since they can kill fliers and AV14 with their haywire granades, really versatile unit.

Spiney Norman
14-06-2015, 00:28
That is a good point... Is your race a mystery to him?

That is an excellent question, generally speaking the field is always level as long as both players are operating under the same assumptions/amount of foreknowledge and are at least trying to make the experience enjoyable for their opponent (though in y experience that is fairly rare, most often people are just trying to win). If he knows you will be bringing Eldar it's absolutely reasonable to ask him which army he is thinking of bringing.


If not, beware of cheese justified as 'well Eldar are OP, it said so on the Internet so I have brought an almighty bag of douche.'

In fairness it's a reputation well deserved, about the only way to 'out-cheese' Eldar is to spam grav weapons, and not too many armies can do that even now. Eldar have the most powerful and versatile list in 40k at the moment, grav really is the only thing they struggle to deal with. If you think this guy might be the douchy type then you might want to think about breaking out the Scatterbikes and wraith circus, otherwise if you want the afternoon to be fun for both of you I'd stay away from excessive heavy weapons on bikes, and wraithguard/knights altogether, and you'll likely still have a competitive answer to whatever he brings.

jeffersonian000
14-06-2015, 12:54
I'd advise to ignore balance and build a list to when at Maelstrom. You never have worry about what your opponent brings when you build to game the game.

SJ


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WarsmithGarathor94
16-06-2015, 21:50
I'd personally bring a balanced list that at least attempts to have an answer to most things

gwarsh41
18-06-2015, 15:00
90% of the time I go to the shop I walk out the door with no idea of who or what I am playing against. I used to ALWAYS tailor my lists when I was starting the game, and my opponents did the same. Now I bring well balanced lists, no matter if I know what I am facing or not. I feel like tailoring an army is a poor sport thing to do, unless both parties agree to it.

Bring a balanced list capable of taking on any foe, play to objectives, and never let your opponent's army demoralize you.

hazmiter
18-06-2015, 15:20
Hey gwarsh :)
Thats pretty much what i do, space marines are easier to take "balanced" though, not too sure about other armies.
2 hq, 3-4 troops and sprinkle fast, elites and heavy to flavour.
Make the list a well oiled machine.

mdauben
22-06-2015, 17:47
I would be suspicious of my opponent's secrecy. It falls natural to me to assume that this person feels the element of surprise is important to his enjoyment of the game, which again leads me to assume that he really wants to win. In this case I'd expect him to bring an army that has invested heavily into one type of units, e.g. fliers, tanks, assault troops or something.

In return, you might want to build an army with its own direction of focus. You can guess that he'll be focusing his strength in one area, it's hard to guess what area that might be.

Now, you may not know him but is it reasonable to expect him to know you? Does your own regular army have any obvious weaknesses/reliances that a "surprise army" can focus on? That would be the first thing to change up.

-T10
I have more than one army, and I would often refuse to tell my opponent what it was that day before we started to deploy. This was not through any desire to WAAC, but because a lot of the people I played would tailor a list on the spot to kill whatever I was using. Not only did I find this annoying, but there were too many occasions of significsnt "math errors" in my opponents favored when he took five minutes to totally rewrite his list on a scrap of paper.

From a Galaxy far, far away...

3eland
22-06-2015, 22:00
Must have been some game. OP hasn't been on since the day he had the game. Would have been nice to get some more information regarding the battle (if the opponent knew anything, etc).

Chevron_Locked
23-06-2015, 00:27
Must have been some game. OP hasn't been on since the day he had the game. Would have been nice to get some more information regarding the battle (if the opponent knew anything, etc).

Haha sorry about that lads!

Well, to start off it was a very tight game. My opponent had fielded Harleys. It was basically carnage throughout; each player turn yielded losses until 2 of his dudes remained. The mission was The Relic and score went 2:1 to him. Point limit was 1250. For what I took:

-Farseer, spear.

-Guardian defs, BL, warlock. Wave Serpent, twin lasers, chin cannon.

-Rangers.

-Warp spiders.

-fire dragons, wave serpent (same loadout).

-jetbikes, all cannons.

-dark reapers.

- war walkers (x2 all loaded with scatts)

- falcon, bl, chin cannon.

His force consisted of two large troope blobs joined by shadowseers plus many haywire cannon armed bikes. He managed to et roll off for first turn so guess if that wasn't the case it could have gone 2:1 to me.

All in all good game.

Chevron_Locked
23-06-2015, 00:29
Oh and neither of us knew who was bringing what.

T10
23-06-2015, 11:17
a lot of the people I played would tailor a list on the spot to kill whatever I was using.

I could imagine an eternal cycle of re-writes in response to each other's armies.

It sounds like you know a lot of people who are pretty lame, or at least have a very different idea of what the game is about.

-T10

megatrons2nd
23-06-2015, 12:52
I will let my opponent know the three armies they may end up against, and I ask for no army info from them. I then choose one and bring it, ask for his list, and swap lists at the same time.

gwarsh41
23-06-2015, 18:53
I could imagine an eternal cycle of re-writes in response to each other's armies.

It sounds like you know a lot of people who are pretty lame, or at least have a very different idea of what the game is about.

-T10

I had someone ask if they could play me after I was finished with my current game. They happily ran off and wrote a new list 100% tailored to exactly what I had. It was the most dick move I have ever seen in wargaming. Worse than shady rolling and cheating on the move rolls in my eyes. Happily, 2 weeks later, for some reason he just never showed back up.

jeffersonian000
24-06-2015, 17:31
It's people like this at the FLGS I game at that put me in the habit of displaying one army while I played another. Let the tailor to the one I'm not playing, it's there own fault for being dicks.

SJ


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3eland
24-06-2015, 21:37
It's people like this at the FLGS I game at that put me in the habit of displaying one army while I played another. Let the tailor to the one I'm not playing, it's there own fault for being dicks.

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just bring two armies of equal points but don't show off the second army. Then, when they tailor a list for the army you are playing simply say you are playing your other army instead.

Problem solved.

Lord Squidar
25-06-2015, 00:35
I absolutely loath list tailoring, it sucks so much especially when you play orks or nids and people suddenly have tons of flamers in their armies. Flamers are pretty awful against most armies, but against infantry hordes they are maximum effectiveness for minimum points, so they get to save a few points here and there and pile on more pain. I'd say its tantamount to poor sportsmanship at the very least. Well done OP for going in blind with a balanced list, its the true way!

Chevron_Locked
25-06-2015, 01:08
I absolutely loath list tailoring, it sucks so much especially when you play orks or nids and people suddenly have tons of flamers in their armies. Flamers are pretty awful against most armies, but against infantry hordes they are maximum effectiveness for minimum points, so they get to save a few points here and there and pile on more pain. I'd say its tantamount to poor sportsmanship at the very least. Well done OP for going in blind with a balanced list, its the true way!

Agreed. A balanced army is a fun army!