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View Full Version : 30k Starter Army- Thoughts on what units will be next and how to proceed



sturguard
13-06-2015, 04:54
Hey folks,

I am hoping to get some advice from the community. I have a very large SW army. I started it back in the 90s and needless to say, I think the only thing in the codex I dont have (and most entries I have multiples) is assault claws. I have several rhinos, razorbacks, preds, land raider, land speeders (even a Land Speeder Storm I converted in SW fashion), lots of termies, scouts, long fangs, grey hunters, thunderwolves- well you get the picture.

I have always very much been a one of everything type guy in all the armies I build, but I like to play both casual and have some ability to be competitive.

I also have a rather large eldar army and 2 fantasy armies. With the instability of WFB, I have sold one army off and am trying to sell some of the other army off as well.

I decided I would like to do one more 40k army before hanging up the gloves so to speak- by the time I finish, I would suspect Ill be close to 50 so I dont know how much longer Ill be in the hobby.

I read all the HH novels (I think I have 3 to go before I am current with the release schedule) and really love the books in general. I also tend to gravitate towards awesome models as much as competitiveness and story line. I would also say I am more comfortable playing the good guys over bad.

However, I was thinking of doing a 30K army and building it in such a way as I could use it as codex SM, codex CSM, or 30k. I get bored of the same army all the time. It would also allow me to add some daemons in the mix as they are some good looking models.

Of the "bad" primarchs, I really like Magnus and Perturabo. I thought both of these factions would be good as obviously having SW and 1K sons really works, but also the Iron Warriors use alot of artillery which at least in the present codex SW there isnt much reason to take (in fact there isnt much reason to take anything but TWs unfortunately).

So here's the problem. 1K sons has nothing really out. Iron Warriors really has nothing either- and the new armor packs they put out I dont like. Now, what I do like are the new Imperial Fist models. The Templars are awesome. Polux is an awesome character as well. However, the issue I am having is - would I regret going forward with IF as they may be too similar to my SW? I mean I am not going to build enough models to take advantage of any of the new SM formations. Yeah I could build a Stormraven, but the Stormwolf I have is almost the same thing. Yeah I could build all sorts of termies with storm shields and TH, but I have lots of other SW termies.

I know I want a Sicaran Battle Tank- as they are really cool looking (I dont even know the rules), I think I would like a contemptor- although the IF contemptor is kind of bland.

Can anyone give me some ideas on what units I could take in an IF army that wouldnt play just like my SW? Should I just keep waiting it out for 1K sons or Iron Warriors or even FW SWs to arrive?

I am not familiar enough with the 30k game to have alot of original ideas of my own, all I know is what models I like aesthetically and which I dont.

Thanks for your input.

sturguard
13-06-2015, 05:21
I could start with vehicles if going Iron Warriors. I could get the Armored Task force for the new codex SM and get a techpriest (Which seems pretty inline with Iron Warriors) and 3 FW Legion Deimos Pattern Vindicators. I could potentially then add in some Lascannon Centurions to join the techpriest to, so he could stay in proximity of the vindicators to fix them. Any other ideas? Or should I simply wait to see how long it takes for more models to come out via FW. Does anyone have any ideas on their release schedule?

Flipmode
13-06-2015, 11:39
FW Iron Hands look grungy enough to be CSM, if you're wanting a flexibke 'counts as' force.

Asher
13-06-2015, 12:05
You can throw some 30k Iron Hands bitz into the mix. Both Iron Warriors and Iron Hands have overlapping design choices.

Denny
13-06-2015, 12:14
You can throw some 30k Iron Hands bitz into the mix. Both Iron Warriors and Iron Hands have overlapping design choices.

Huh, how IRONic. :D

. . . Get it? :)

. . . I'm sorry. :(

Flipmode
13-06-2015, 12:27
***Thread closed for punnery***

;)

Spiney Norman
13-06-2015, 23:53
Here are a few things to think about

1. Word bearers are currently the only Legion with access to Daemonic allies or the Malefic psychic lore, while it's likely some of the other traitor legions might get access at a later date, you could be waiting a while given where we are in the story.

2. It is much, much easier to 'double up' a legion with the 40k (loyalist) space marine list than it is with the chaos marine list, almost everything that doesn't use Volkite maps across exactly, if you want to map to chaos marines it will mean a lot of your legion stuff won't be useable in your 40k army and you'll probably have to buy a substantial amount of additional stuff to pad your force out for 40k.

3. In terms of how the Legion list plays it is pretty different to any 40k marine list I have ever seen, in fact the whole feel of 30k is quite different to 40k so I don't think you need to worry about anything feeling the same as your SWs. Fists are a great looking army, if you're confident painting yellow then they are really beautiful models, on the other hand if you're interested in iron warriors there have been rumours bouncing around that FW are giving the unreleased primarchs. Big push over the next 6 months and the two favourites for next one out are Corax and Perturabo.

sturguard
14-06-2015, 00:31
Here are a few things to think about

1. Word bearers are currently the only Legion with access to Daemonic allies or the Malefic psychic lore, while it's likely some of the other traitor legions might get access at a later date, you could be waiting a while given where we are in the story.

2. It is much, much easier to 'double up' a legion with the 40k (loyalist) space marine list than it is with the chaos marine list, almost everything that doesn't use Volkite maps across exactly, if you want to map to chaos marines it will mean a lot of your legion stuff won't be useable in your 40k army and you'll probably have to buy a substantial amount of additional stuff to pad your force out for 40k.

3. In terms of how the Legion list plays it is pretty different to any 40k marine list I have ever seen, in fact the whole feel of 30k is quite different to 40k so I don't think you need to worry about anything feeling the same as your SWs. Fists are a great looking army, if you're confident painting yellow then they are really beautiful models, on the other hand if you're interested in iron warriors there have been rumours bouncing around that FW are giving the unreleased primarchs. Big push over the next 6 months and the two favourites for next one out are Corax and Perturabo.

Spiney,

Thanks for that, alot of good info here. I do really like the Iron Fists color scheme, I think I could pull it off- however, I really like the "fallen heroes" in Magnus and Peturabo in the books. I mean the Word Bearers you love to hate, same with the Night Lords- however, you really feel like things could have turned out different for Magnus and Peturabo if some events went a different way. Heck, Magnus sits back and watches his own world get destroyed as a kind of penance for disrupting his father's plans, Peturabo just wants to build things, instead he is stuck with a role of siege warfare and destruction. I think right now, the Iron Fists have better models than the Iron Warriors however, I looked at their new upgrade pack with little stars on it and they really dont blow you away compared to some of the other kits, now if they are set to release Peturabo, maybe they will release a special unit or two to go along with him.

How many years before we see Ragnar and Magnus?

Spiney Norman
14-06-2015, 00:37
How many years before we see Ragnar and Magnus?

Currently FW seem to be releasing books at a rate of about 1 every six months, and we had book 5 at the end of May. In addition we know book six will cover the shadow crusade and have a daemonic 30k list in it, plus further updates for word bearers, world eaters and ultramarines. That means the earliest we could have a book covering Prospero would be book 7 (expected May/June 2016). That's not to say that book 7 will definitely cover the burning of Prospero, but I don't know how far they will delay that battle since we have passed that point in the Chronology of the heresy a while ago.

Still Standing
14-06-2015, 20:16
Here are a few things to think about

1. Word bearers are currently the only Legion with access to Daemonic allies or the Malefic psychic lore, while it's likely some of the other traitor legions might get access at a later date, you could be waiting a while given where we are in the story.

2. It is much, much easier to 'double up' a legion with the 40k (loyalist) space marine list than it is with the chaos marine list, almost everything that doesn't use Volkite maps across exactly, if you want to map to chaos marines it will mean a lot of your legion stuff won't be useable in your 40k army and you'll probably have to buy a substantial amount of additional stuff to pad your force out for 40k.

3. In terms of how the Legion list plays it is pretty different to any 40k marine list I have ever seen, in fact the whole feel of 30k is quite different to 40k so I don't think you need to worry about anything feeling the same as your SWs. Fists are a great looking army, if you're confident painting yellow then they are really beautiful models, on the other hand if you're interested in iron warriors there have been rumours bouncing around that FW are giving the unreleased primarchs. Big push over the next 6 months and the two favourites for next one out are Corax and Perturabo.

Reference point number 2, I don't think that is strictly true. Imperial Armour 13 adds most of the units into the Chaos book. You can certainly make a more powerful cross-over list with the loyalist book, but the Chaos book allows the use of larger squad sizes and autocannons. Autocannons are fantastic.

K3nn3rs
14-06-2015, 21:44
Sturguard,

I'm in exactly the same place- I'm going to go Iron Warriors. As Still Standing has said; IA13 allows 40k chaos armies to access a lot of 30k stuff.

My plan is to focus on vehicles/ contemptors/ flyers. I also like the mkIII iron armour.

Asher
14-06-2015, 21:54
Have you considered using FW chapter tactics? If yes, you could run an Alpha Legion army with Raptor tactics and Lias Issodon as Exodus stand in. With shrouded and legendary marksmen the tactics and character are very fitting to represent the Alpha Legion.

Poncho160
14-06-2015, 21:56
I've chosen World Eaters. I'm getting to use the HH rule set and two codexes (chaos marine and Deamonkin), which is nice.

sturguard
14-06-2015, 22:02
Asher,

Again, I am really picky on models. I don't ever buy or use a model if I dont like it (I want so bad to use Shining spears in my eldar list but loathe the models, as with Swooping Hawks) and I also have to really like the fluff. I can't say I like the Alpha Legions fluff or models- although I do have to say the Raptors are some of the nicest models in the Chaos line.

I am really on the fence here, I really like the IF's forgeworld infantry models, and really dislike the IW's forgeworld toros- what is with the star anyways? My point about using them as 40k Chaos would be, if I had say 2 squads of FW IW's in MK2 Iron Armor, I could use all of them as bog standard Chaos Marines, maybe I would have to model an additional model or two with a heavy and special weapon, but that isnt a huge deal. Then I could add in daemons, or whatever 40k stuff I wanted. It just gives you more options to play, but your opponents would still know what the squads were, just like if I used the IW's as a 40k SM IHs offshoot army. Is the shoulder pad different- yes, but the model would still represent what equipment it is supposed to have. I wont ever buy enough stuff to represent 2 demi companies, so I thought I would pick one of the smaller formations and build off that say for instance taking the techmarine and 3 vindicators which would be fluffy for the IW's but also allow me to use them as allies to my SW (So I could play with them).

sturguard
14-06-2015, 22:02
Poncho, that is a good idea, I am just not a big fan of WE, although I do like Kharn in the HH novels.

Spiney Norman
14-06-2015, 23:10
Reference point number 2, I don't think that is strictly true. Imperial Armour 13 adds most of the units into the Chaos book. You can certainly make a more powerful cross-over list with the loyalist book, but the Chaos book allows the use of larger squad sizes and autocannons. Autocannons are fantastic.

The problem is more what is missing from the legion list to make a CSM force, cultists are a massive hole, as are possessed (the nearest thing: Gal Vorbak are on the wrong size base), then most of the daemon engines don't have any kind of equivalent in the 30k era, whereas just about everything in the legion list maps precisely to the loyalist list with relatively few gaps (mainly the thunderfire cannon and centurions). It's difficult enough to make a competitive CSM force in 40k when you have all the options at your disposal, try dropping half the codex and see what you're left with.

I've tried it with my word bearers and imo the whole thing is a waste of time, now I'm looking at expanding into some allied daemon units I'm wondering if I might be able to map a bit better to the Khorne Daemonkin codex (though obviously missing berserkers). On the other hand the lack of dark apostle and VotLW makes that a bit of a non-starter.

AngryAngel
14-06-2015, 23:35
I would love to be more help here, but I'm not really very knowledgeable on 30k the workings and what not. I do hear in function and feel it won't feel like your space wolves. I would say however going one of the loyalist factions is a good idea simply for doubling up on using in 30k and 40k. It allows you some use of the new marine dex and well because I'm more a loyalist fan then a chaos one. Though I do have a small nurgle force.

Still Standing
14-06-2015, 23:49
30k armies, less the Word Bearers maybe, are not Chaos Legions. They are not demonic, they are not twisted, so there is no reason why you can't represent your Iron Warriors or Death Guard with the Marine book. I'll be running my Thousand Sons from there, as it's got Drop Pods and Librarian Conclaves.

Dr.Clock
15-06-2015, 16:47
Still Standing has it about right... 30k-40k swapping is certainly possible, but right now vastly easier as straight Space Marines rather than Chaos of any stripe. That will change in a few years, but the Siege of Terra is a while off.

Iron Warriors are almost the 'least chaotic' of the Traitor Legions in both time periods. They kind of embody the 'bitter' end of the 'bitter and twisted' Chaos marine. With their focus more or less on sieges, I'd be seriously considering a significant armoured contingent of at least a pair of vindicators and a Sicaran. I know there's a formation in the new SM book that makes techmarines a bit more interesting paired with predator chassis.

It's worth noting too that IW in 40k have pretty strong ties to the Dark Mech - This would be where they'd be breaking out the weird and wonderful chaos-y stuff; daemon engines and warp-tainted technology. These things too can be more easily swapped in settings using some 30k Mechanicum stuff as either Mechanicus if you go SM, or just Obliterators/terminators/Spawn etc. in a CSM list.

Finally wrt 'cultists', it's worth noting that book 5 has significant capacity to represent all kinds of crazy cults based on more-or-less guardsman stats... so some cannon fodder is also possible in both settings.

Anyway - good luck. Iron Warriors are pretty nifty.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Spiney Norman
15-06-2015, 16:52
It's worth mentioning as well that you can very easily play a loyalist splinter force of a traitor legion, iron warriors even have a loyalist named character in their list.

sturguard
15-06-2015, 17:53
Dr. Clock and Spiney-
I was doing some more in depth reading about the IW last night and you are indeed correct, IG contingents did NOT like working with the IWs as they were often used as meat shields and a way to run their enemy out of ammunition. So that opens a door to IG allies. Also you are correct, they did have strong ties to the Mechanicus, so I could use or convert any of the dinobots for my bidding or take some of the new robots etc that GW has produced. I just wish they had more FW specific kits for IW. I dont want to take FW stuff just to take it, it, like my GW models has to follow the rule of cool, if the model is great, take it. If the model sucks and the rules are great, no go. However, with the idea that I could use Daemons, IG, Mechanicum, FW and normal 40K models in my force, it seems IW are the way to go. I dont see that army playing at all similar to my SW or Eldar.

Spiney Norman
15-06-2015, 19:29
Dr. Clock and Spiney-
I was doing some more in depth reading about the IW last night and you are indeed correct, IG contingents did NOT like working with the IWs as they were often used as meat shields and a way to run their enemy out of ammunition. So that opens a door to IG allies. Also you are correct, they did have strong ties to the Mechanicus, so I could use or convert any of the dinobots for my bidding or take some of the new robots etc that GW has produced. I just wish they had more FW specific kits for IW. I dont want to take FW stuff just to take it, it, like my GW models has to follow the rule of cool, if the model is great, take it. If the model sucks and the rules are great, no go. However, with the idea that I could use Daemons, IG, Mechanicum, FW and normal 40K models in my force, it seems IW are the way to go. I dont see that army playing at all similar to my SW or Eldar.

While it's true that Iron Warriors only have one named character currently (the event-only Praevian consul) and he being rather tricky to get hold of unless you live in the UK, I'm not sure how much more Iron warriors will be expecting at the moment. Their unique siege terminator unit is basically PF Cataphractii with cyclone launchers (fairly easy to convert by combining spare plastic cyclone launchers with the Cataphractii kit) and the iron havocs are just a super-heavy support squad, I'm not certain either will get dedicated models any time soon.

It's certainly possible to create reasonable proxies for everything in the IW army list including the SCs if you are up for a little conversion with the right weapons.

Dr.Clock
15-06-2015, 19:30
Yeah... Iron Warriors are an interesting one because their heraldry is kind of 'a lack of heraldry'. They spurn iconography and adornment 'for its own sake'... which is why their FW bits are generally so much plainer-looking than the others.

This doesn't mean that they don't have good modeling and painting opportunities - it just means you have to pull stuff in that is more or less entirely utilitarian from other places. Going for more bionics is great, as is taking some cues from AdMech stuff. For painting, you've got the nice hazard striping possibilities and with the relatively simple metallic scheme, I'd be considering spending a good amount of time on green/red lenses and the like.

I'd aim to begin with something like 2 'veteran tactical squads' in rhinos, a Sicaran, 2 vindies and something cool like a Contemptor or Deredeo (LOVE THAT MODEL)... all of those will stand you in good stead as a nice armoured core. After that, you can build ~500 point 'brackets' of cannon fodder, specialist infantry (MOAR GUNZ), more/bigger tanks, AdMech or whatever you should fancy.

Iron Within! Iron Without!

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Poncho160
15-06-2015, 20:00
It's worth noting that the Daemonkin book isn't a "Worldeater book", so would work equally as well with any traitor legion, except for the Deathguard, Emperors Children and the Thousand Sons.

A Khorne aligned Iron Warriors force, would be nice and fluffy :).

Using the IA 13 book, will let you use quite a few of the HH vehicles as well.

sturguard
15-06-2015, 20:19
Spiney I found the SC on ebay, he looks pretty cool.

Dr. Clock/Spiney- If I am going for a 30K/40K rollover (ie can be useable in either game), do the vets have similar loadout option as Sternguard? I was thinking I could start with the SC and count him as the SM character who counts Sternguard as OS.

So how would be the best equipment options and how would they incorporate into 40k- as I would start with them just being allies to my SW as it takes me years to get a full force on the table.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.