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ArtificerArmour
17-06-2015, 15:32
so, looking around these boards, all topics regarding the mechanicus release seem, well, dead or sparsely discussed. It seems no one is actively discussing them any more, crying filth or under power, or asking much about tactics and experiences facing them.

So this leads me to ask - has it been a failed release?

literally over the years I've read hundreds of posts saying "mechanicus will sell", "why wont GW give us what we want?" "my wallet would cry if they released ad mech" and so on and so forth. now the buzz has died down and no ones talking about them, merely a month on.

So what does everyone else think? Are they common in your meta? Have you changed your mind about buying them (pro or against)? Has either the rules or models not hit a chord with you?

Or have I misred the situation?

Borgomos
17-06-2015, 15:48
While i am slightly displeased that about a two-book release that could have easily been a single, more comprehensive book, that is about the only annoying thing i can think of.
The models are gorgeous. I know the Baymax robots are not everyone's cup of tea, but the rest of the sculpts are very much in line with the Admech look and feel.

In no way i think this is a failed release whatsoever.

stroller
17-06-2015, 15:50
Maybe.... they're just USING them... ya know... playing the game, instead of crying "cheese" or "broken".

Locally, I got some. In my gaming circle, I know of 12 who've bought one, the other, or both. I know of 1 who hasn't. That's not enough evidence overall, but locally, I would say the releases have been a success. In addition, 4 or 5 of those dozen have also bought some forgeworld stuff - Scyllax particularly.

Borgomos
17-06-2015, 15:57
stroller - Do you happen to know why they invested in Scyllax specifically ? It is because of their rules or are they using them as counts-as ?

Spiney Norman
17-06-2015, 16:25
so, looking around these boards, all topics regarding the mechanicus release seem, well, dead or sparsely discussed. It seems no one is actively discussing them any more, crying filth or under power, or asking much about tactics and experiences facing them.

So this leads me to ask - has it been a failed release?

literally over the years I've read hundreds of posts saying "mechanicus will sell", "why wont GW give us what we want?" "my wallet would cry if they released ad mech" and so on and so forth. now the buzz has died down and no ones talking about them, merely a month on.

So what does everyone else think? Are they common in your meta? Have you changed your mind about buying them (pro or against)? Has either the rules or models not hit a chord with you?

Or have I misred the situation?

I dunno really, I know one guy locally who is painting up a Skitarri force, personally I thought they totally aced the Skitarri model range and then promptly derped on the cult Mechanicus models (the robots and electric priests were ugly as, and the Kataphrons not much better). It is odd that there is virtually no online discussion about tactics, what to buy etc, but maybe people are still painting them up, it's not like anyone had a mechanicus army from last edition that they could put down on a table with the new codex.

It's a good sign that there don't seem to be any over/under powered whine threads, I take it to mean GW got the rules about right

ArtificerArmour
17-06-2015, 16:34
don't get me wrong - like them. I've started an army of both. But whilst I'm charged and keen to discuss them, the online chatter (here and other sites) seems lacking.

I don't know why, I'm not hating on GW (but two books seems...off.) but I'm just calling it how I see it. compared to Daemonkin which got equal amounts of love and hate, mechanicus isn't quite getting the love I thought it would deserve. But perhaps it has something to do with it being wedged between Marines, knights and Eldar, which are all getting a fair bit of airtime on the boards.

Again, I love the release and think GW knocked the models out of the park - I'm just curious that what should have been such a massive release has gone very quiet very fast.

Formerly Wu
17-06-2015, 16:36
Judging the success of a major product release by the number of obnoxious forum threads it spawns is such an odd mindset that I'm having trouble figuring out how to respond to it.

The forum population is not the community. It's not even a substantial minority of the community. It is good to remember this.

FWIW, I think the lack of threads is because the army is not obviously broken and is new enough to not have a congealed common wisdom about how to play it.

Flipmode
17-06-2015, 16:44
Not having a previous edition for comparison curtails a lot of the whine threads.

They haven't gained or lost anything, so no room for simplistic analysis. Also, people not having a collection in place which has been nerfed/buffed mean people take it less personally. If people think they're good, buy. If not, don't. Nobody has been disadvantaged.

I think it has been a success,and look forward to them being fleshed out, (for want of a better word) as a stand alone army.

Spiney Norman
17-06-2015, 16:53
Judging the success of a major product release by the number of obnoxious forum threads it spawns is such an odd mindset that I'm having trouble figuring out how to respond to it.

The forum population is not the community. It's not even a substantial minority of the community. It is good to remember this.

FWIW, I think the lack of threads is because the army is not obviously broken and is new enough to not have a congealed common wisdom about how to play it.

It's worth pointing out that there are no threads on Admech at all, positive or negative, but I think that is partly because there has been a series of seismic shifts in the meta with Necrons and Eldar that Skitarri weren't really a part a of, so their release has been somewhat overshadowed by two hugely overpowered codexes which have kind of stolen the limelight.

ArtificerArmour
17-06-2015, 16:56
It's not just whine or love threads - its everything. No real tactica, no list discussion, no project logs.

This was just a thread to discuss whether the lack of discussion was suggestive of a poor release. but judging by reaction I'm guessing it's not.

LegioDestructor
17-06-2015, 17:01
Not a failure, but perhaps a misfire in my eyes.

Fans of the AdMech have been craving, ne้ demanding, a codex for decades. Many players have probably contributed to at least one fan-codex over the years. I think the problem GW had that unlike the Tau release which was a surprise as far as what the units would look and behave like, many players knew of the Mechanicus already. We had expectations and hopes, based on what we thought we knew would be coming: Magos', Electropriests, Robots, Hypaspists, Praetorian servitors...

I think the problem is, bar the Dunecrawler kit (the Ironstrider is just an "Mechanicus Sentinel"), that was all we got. The few scant units that have been mentioned in AdMech fluff forever, the same units that are in Tim Huckleberry's AdMech codex from the early 2000's but with less HQ-customization and fewer overall unit selections. All the imagination and creativity that went into the Forge World models and army were seemingly absent. They have no transports (the fluff explanation for that is simply moronic) or Flyers, and when we heard rumours of "Mechanicus Codex", some of us (guilty!) probably thought we were going to get, y'know, a whole Codex. With cool AdMechy stuff; Disciplines for your HQ to vary the composition of the army, Xenotech weapons, Eviscerator Engines, Machine Cultists...

Even if they combined the two books into a single Codex, which they should have, I think there's something missing. The Doctrina Imperatives are neat, their rules fit their character, and the models are absolutely awesome, but they seem to act like supplementary forces to a larger Imperial army - playing second fiddle, if you will. Unless you're taking huge units of Kastelans or maxing out your troop selections it seems difficult to get beyond 2000pts without being boring and repetitive, like how a Necron army felt back in the day.

In the background, the Adeptus Mechanicus is a force as great as the entire Imperium with some of the most diverse and bizarre instruments of war in the galaxy. This army just doesn't feel like that, and I think the FW 30k list is partially to blame. You can get more out of a "counts-as" Imperial Guard, Tau, Necron, Marines, or Codex Daemons codex and let your imagination run wild.

And as to why nobody is talking about them anymore? There are new Space Marines releases!

IAMNOTHERE
17-06-2015, 17:01
There is a tactica thread and you're right, discussion is sparse.

I post lists and some ideas, get a few comments but no real discussion.

Maybe it's because the list can almost build itself, go with the formations, take some upgrades and voila!

Theocracity
17-06-2015, 17:02
It's not just whine or love threads - its everything. No real tactica, no list discussion, no project logs.

This was just a thread to discuss whether the lack of discussion was suggestive of a poor release. but judging by reaction I'm guessing it's not.

...I just took a cursory look through the General, Tactica, Army List, Background and Imperium project log forums and saw at least one Ad Mech related thread on the first page of each. That's not even clicking to the second page, or checking other forums (I know there are some active Dark Mechanicus threads in Chaos project logs).

TheFang
17-06-2015, 17:03
People are still finding their way with them I think. I had the minis for a daemonkin army with pretty much all of the options ready to go as soon as the codex hit. The units are well understood and only the tithe rules needed any adaptation.

Building a completely new army of Mechanicus from scratch is a big job in terms of both time and money. There's no existing wisdom to run the army so people are groping in the dark to some extent. There is a decent tactica (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407608-Tactica-Adeptus-Mechanicus) developing as people get more games in. Selling the army in two halves was also pretty annoying as I changed my mind on plans for a skitarii army when the Cult forces appeared so close on the back of the first release. I do think that led to some stalled skitarii armies.

Looking at what the local stores are selling the Mechanicus seem to be fairly popular though I wonder how the endless stream of 40k releases have distracted players with Eldar and Marines pulling attention and funds away from a half finished Mechanicus army. Some people have refreshed and expanded Eldar and Marines and left the Mechanicus.

Necrontyr
17-06-2015, 17:30
It's a new army, but there is plenty of discussion, and I know plenty of models being built and painted (by myself too.)

Heck, they're even winning tournaments.

I'd call it a successful, fun, and fluffy release.

Lord Damocles
17-06-2015, 19:10
It's worth pointing out that there are no threads on Admech at all

Well that's not true:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409706-Cult-Mechanics-codex-(thoughts)
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409849-kastelan-robots-competitive

AngryAngel
17-06-2015, 19:24
I have to disagree. I think the release, is a success. Perhaps a mixed one, I say that because I think the Skittari was more popular then the cult mechanicus release. The Skittari core infantry are hard to find in some areas, to a scale that I've not seen since they first dropped the Tau Riptide. To me, that screams popular. I've had mixed views for the cult, however it may be because of how close it came to follow up skittari as well it feels much more like allies, then a full army for the cult units.

I also add, it is a brand new army release, it hasn't had time to build up the steam and devoted following that say, Eldar, Space Marines, even Dark Angels have spawned. You'll always hear more if people have had decades to build up armies as opposed to months. As well, getting into a new 40k army isn't as cheap as it once was, the costs have gone up quite a bit. Means slower build up for some who are fans.

Give the army some time, and you'll hear more from them and more often, especially should they get a new, combined dex down the line. I do as well think you need to look harder, there are threads for the armies they just aren't full of people hating on them. It ends up just one of those situations where you hear more when there is a real problem with the army. The fact your hear less, is a good thing, means people are happy playing with and against them and with the release in general.

WarsmithGarathor94
17-06-2015, 19:25
I'd argue it's not a failed release at least 2 guys in my local GW have a skitari force and at least 2 have a cult mechanicus force. I myself at some point in the future would like to do a force of both

IAMNOTHERE
17-06-2015, 19:38
The tactics thread alone runs to 20+ pages of discussion, and there are several more I follow.

What you're also not seeing is the age where forums like this one are slowly dieing to more niche forms of social media like the face book.

Flame Boy
17-06-2015, 20:56
I've got a couple of boxes of Skitarii already and the two codices, but I've got a Bloodthirster on the painting table at the moment and I'm reading the daemon codex when I'm not painting. As a result, I've not started on the Skitarii yet. I'll glance through the Skitarii book for the most sensible way to equip the two squads when I get the chance. I'm not going to rush out and buy loads of Admech any time soon, but as an army I've long had an interest in I will be slowly adding to them over time. For many people I would expect that it is a new army they are adding to in addition to a previous army, so unless they are new players, people selling up an old army or shelving an existing army, it's going to be sharing people's time and money with existing projects. I'm interested in seeing what the people that dropped everything when the Mechanicus forces came out, since they will be the first person with model collections and army lists.

MajorWesJanson
17-06-2015, 21:21
Cult Mech and Skitarii are both new starting codices, and have a limnited number of units and builds. The limied amount of discussion hey are getting is likely because they are sandwiched in between the brokenly strong Eldar book and the new very popular marine book.

Beppo1234
17-06-2015, 21:57
Cult Mech and Skitarii are both new starting codices, and have a limnited number of units and builds. The limied amount of discussion hey are getting is likely because they are sandwiched in between the brokenly strong Eldar book and the new very popular marine book.

that and reduced hype time.

Vipoid
17-06-2015, 22:54
I'm not sure I'd call it a failed release per se, but I think a little more effort could have made it much more appealing.

Releasing two books with 1 HQ between them just seems idiotic and, whatever the reason given (if any), just comes across as a desperate cash-grab. Speaking personally, I'm certainly not going to be buying 2 books with maybe half a codex's worth of content between them.

And yes, I did say half a codex. Certainly in terms of units, the books just feel very lacking - even when combined. e.g. I'd argue that, point for point, the Tech Priest Dominus is one of the best HQs in the game. That's nice and all, but it's also the only HQ they have. And Skitarii don't have any at all. But, let's just look at how many units they get:
HQ 1
Elites 4
Troops 4
Fast Attack 1
Heavy Support 3
Total: 13

Let's compare this to Dark Eldar
HQ 6 (9 if you count each entry in the Court of the Archon)
Elites 6
Troops 2
Fast Attack 7 (10 if you include each entry in Beast units)
Heavy Support 4
Total: 19-25

So, Ad mech wins in troops, and loses in everything else. Also bear in mind that this is both the ad mech books combined, *and* that the Dark Eldar book lost content in its update to 7th - yet it still comes out ahead.

Now, let's compare with Necrons:
HQ 11 (Inc. 6 Special Characters)
Elites 7
Troops 2
Fast Attack 6
Heavy Support 7
Total: 33

So, more than twice as many options as Ad mech which, once again, has more troops and far less of everything else.

This just seems like a pitiful amount of content for one book, let alone two.

Also, maybe it's not a bit deal for most people, but as someone who loves creating characters the lack of HQ choices is a real turn-off for me.

MagicHat
17-06-2015, 23:13
I blew my hobby money for the next few months on a Skitarii Battle Maniple (leaving nothing for Cult Mechanicus.) Don't regret it either, I will pick up the Dominus and Kataphrons in time.

However, building and painting takes me more time then I thought, and so I have not much to add to any discussion yet.
I love the minis though, and at least 2 others have started them with serious intent, and some others picked up a Vanguard/Ranger kit.

Flipmode
17-06-2015, 23:58
I do wonder if they intended to release them so close. When the first one came out I thought 'great idea, a small force usable as allied formation, get people used to AdMech. Much better than trying to swamp out an entire army in one go'.

Then the next one came out almost immediately and still didn't feel like a full army....Hmmm... I still stick with it being a success, though a strange tasting one.

Still Standing
18-06-2015, 00:08
I have a 4,000 point Skitarii army, both limited edition Codeci, both limited edition Black Library books, and both painting guides. Oh, and a Tech Priest Dominus, mainly for my 30k Mechanicum army. I think it was a successful release.

WarsmithGarathor94
18-06-2015, 09:31
I think what people have to remember is both mechanicus armies were probably started off as small releases so that they can build the army up and don't over load people's budgets

rivers3162
18-06-2015, 13:27
I think it was successful as it got me interested in 40K and GW products again after a 5 year hiatus. The Skitarii were definitely well received in my local area, selling out several times in my FLGS. Cult Mechanicus got a bit of a muted reception - the Dominus and Kataphrons (let's face it, they're praetorians!) were popular but the priests and Kastelans weren't as big of a hit.

jason_sation
18-06-2015, 14:01
I am waiting for a full Codex. I thought maybe they would trickle the books out and then release a full Codex in the near future. Models look great, and I'd love to ally in with my Guard.

aprilmanha
18-06-2015, 14:16
Once they get their re-release in 12 months to combine the books into one and flesh it out a little more then I might well consider getting into them a bit more!

Also Jazz Hands Priests!

Commissar Davis
18-06-2015, 16:42
Lots going on about them in other dedicated forums.

GrandmasterWang
18-06-2015, 17:08
Imo Skittari was received very favourably.

Cult Mech not so much.

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Killgore
18-06-2015, 17:11
The books were released at a very busy time, what with Eldar and Space Marines.

Tbh I don't honestly care what other people think about the releases, I now have a load of Mechanicus Vanguard, Rangers, Breachers and Destroyers with official GW rules and no one can take them away from me hahaha!

Aluinn
19-06-2015, 06:08
I'd have to agree with everyone who's said it looks worse because it was basically a divided book, and Cult Mechanicus was just the "leftovers" (with the exception of the HQ, which I'd have to guess might have been saved to make it look like a more complete army -- or it could have just been production issues). Overall I think it was successful, but it just had no need to be divided, and it's easier to see it as less successful because I don't expect many people to ever be playing a pure Cult Mechanicus army, for example.

But it should be looked at as a unified release, since I do believe it will all be combined in the (possibly near-ish) future, and most people will be running CM alongside Skitarii (unless using grav Kataphrons for powergamey reasons, though it looks like new Marines will make that unnecessary).

For subjective opinions I think Skitarii got the majority of the great models, with the exception of characters.

lordreaven448
19-06-2015, 12:48
I'd have to agree with everyone who's said it looks worse because it was basically a divided book, and Cult Mechanicus was just the "leftovers" (with the exception of the HQ, which I'd have to guess might have been saved to make it look like a more complete army -- or it could have just been production issues). Overall I think it was successful, but it just had no need to be divided, and it's easier to see it as less successful because I don't expect many people to ever be playing a pure Cult Mechanicus army, for example.

But it should be looked at as a unified release, since I do believe it will all be combined in the (possibly near-ish) future, and most people will be running CM alongside Skitarii (unless using grav Kataphrons for powergamey reasons, though it looks like new Marines will make that unnecessary).

For subjective opinions I think Skitarii got the majority of the great models, with the exception of characters.
I must be the only person whom wants to run a pure Cult Mech list. Also, it has the Legio Cybernetica :D

Still Standing
19-06-2015, 19:26
They don't really have the Legio Cybernetica. FW have 5 different Automata chassis. GW have Robby the Robot.

lordreaven448
20-06-2015, 06:58
They don't really have the Legio Cybernetica. FW have 5 different Automata chassis. GW have Robby the Robot.
I know, but it's better than nothing. (I also love the model, I think it's great. I know guy whom doesn't like them so I would sure to bring them to every game I faced him in just to make him fight them:D)

ronin_cse
20-06-2015, 08:38
I spent about $1,000 on freaking ad mech stuff, but unfortunately eldar are my main army and i also play space marines. I haven't even had time to finish building my ad mech stuff much less play a lot with it. I'd say chances are that is the case for many.

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Eldarsif
20-06-2015, 10:33
I have seen occasional chatter here and there on instragram and other social media. People seem to be mostly working on their forces still(painting, assembling, collecting) so there hasn't been much combat testing. I've seen one tournmanet battle report where somebody played Skitarii with allied blood angels(to give the skitarii drop pods) and did really well(even won against a Craftworld army). Howver, I think that very few WAAC players have jumped on the army due to it being new and overall untested whereas most other armies already have baselines we can compare them to(historically at least).
Also, like someone mentioned, many people have other armies that they are also working on so the Ad Mech probably doesn't get a priority for those that play a lot.

I think the biggest mistake they did was to release two separate codexes. Kinda bad that you have to pay more for books for one army than compared to many others(even the Space Marine codex is cheaper than those two books combined).

If I didn't already have 5 armies to work on I'd probably buy them, but I promised myself that my 6th army would be Sisters of Battle if they ever did it in plastic(which probably means I'll die before it gets released).

IncrediSteve
20-06-2015, 15:04
For what anecdotes are worth, local game stores around here can't keep them in stock, both halves fly off the shelf.

As far as the army feeling bland, we pretty much have Chapterhouse Aftermath to thank for that. GW will probably never stop being sore losers about that lawsuit, so options that don't have a model released at least once in the past vanish, and new releases get rules for what's in the box and not a sentence more. Take the Tyranid Maleceptor for example. If that model came out in 2004, it probably would have been allowed to take Crushing Claws, Biomorphs, maybe some shooting weapons, even though those weren't in the kit. Now? It has no options at all, literally 0. You take it, it's got Scything Talons and Rending Claws, hope you like it.

They could have made the Dominus more interesting with a small box kit [would have to be a medium box kit to include the amount of options the 30k Magi have], but I'm guessing production only had room for a clampack.

Dr Morbius
20-06-2015, 17:56
I also want to play only Cult Mechanicus. The look of the Skitarii doesn't make me want to spend any money on them. On the other hand, the CM units are a pure delight to my eyes.

I also looking forward to allying them with a Legio Cybernetica. I think they will do very well together on the battlefield. :D

kaimarion
20-06-2015, 23:54
When I've cleared my backlog of projects I'll be picking up a fair few boxes of Ad mech stuff, though that could take a while.
I can't talk about the local 40k scene though as I barely know anyone that still plays but at the local GW I've seen a few people with them.

Mike3791
21-06-2015, 01:50
10 years ago, Necrons had a very small skeleton list (pun intended) with few units to choose from. Also back then it usually took 6-7 years to get an update, but Necrons were fleshed out to the army it is now.

Admech is brand new, so I'd say give it some time. Also there's still plenty of room to add transports, tanks, and flyers to Admech down the road. The good news is that GW has the ability to create new models a lot faster than they used to.

jeffersonian000
21-06-2015, 03:01
I've come to the realization that Skitarii are Skaven. Tell me that I'm wrong.

SJ


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Still Standing
21-06-2015, 09:36
You're wrong.

stroller
21-06-2015, 09:38
stroller - Do you happen to know why they invested in Scyllax specifically ? It is because of their rules or are they using them as counts-as ?

Sorry for the slow reply. Life and all that jazz. Scyllax because the models look cool, and because they look good together.

Azazyll
21-06-2015, 19:23
It's not a real army yet. How are there no tanks in a list for the most advanced technological human faction? Huge mistake.

That and no special characters. Much as people hate them most of the time, they give a faction a personal face, and much needed HQ options, not just mechanically but in terms of extra models to convert from. Mechanicus is hurting even worse in terms of HQs than in the Heavy Support slot.

jeffersonian000
21-06-2015, 22:40
Jezzals, radioactive rocks, radioactive bullets, lightning weapons. Yep, they're Skaven.

SJ


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aka_mythos
22-06-2015, 01:07
I think the sparse discussion is a multi-faceted issue. First, I think these models are complex enough many are taking their time with them, they aren't playing a lot of games. Second, the split into two books has limited the discussion by limiting the ways you can build the two books together. I think its made a lot of people who were excited about them to put them on the back burner while they wait for more of a combined book. I bought Skitarii, but I haven't touched Cult Mechanicus yet. I have two halves of an army that even together don't quite make a whole. There seems to be a consensus that even with both together you need to ally in another army to get the most out of them. This is the game side problem of what some have already voiced with the issues of the model release. For now that kinda limits their discussion to "how to ally" them into another army.

Voss
22-06-2015, 01:12
Meh. I'm too used to 40k players gluing things together haphazardly and throwing bare plastic on the table to really believe that.

I suspect its simply that they aren't the powergaming cheese of the month, so sales didn't go all that well.

sephiroth87
22-06-2015, 01:29
I think the state of the game has more to do with the lack of tactics thread than the army book itself.

IncrediSteve
22-06-2015, 04:02
Au contraire, there is a Tactics thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407608-Tactica-Adeptus-Mechanicus

ehlijen
22-06-2015, 04:30
At the speed at which GW is releasing books now, I don't think any single release will have the new spotlight for very long. Throw in that unlike most factions the admech do not have any longstanding fans, and them seeming like they are being discussed less once more new books are out seems perfectly normal to me.

I don't think how thoroughly they are being discussed is a notable indication of how popular they are.

shabbadoo
22-06-2015, 07:57
To the OP, I wouldn't say it was a failed release, just a greatly underwhelming one. Splitting the one force into two factions that don't work together is about the most idiotic thing GW could have done. Otherwise, the lack of any tanks and other large vehicles..for a faction that is all about their mechanical contraptions...was also a bad move. This release should have been postponed until GW could develop everything to the point that the contents of "Codex: Cult Mechanicus" could rightfully be referred to as an "army" in its own right. And Codex: Skitarii? That's like making "Codex: Tactical Squad". Beyond stupid. :rolleyes: Perhaps they will get it right next time around by putting it all together and releasing additional models to un-flesh out the range. I had high hopes, and while I like the models very much and planned on getting them, the structure of everything put me off of getting anything. Either they just weren't ready to put them out properly but did so anyways, or they were too stupid to realize they were putting out a screwed up version of what people have been bugging them about making for a decade and more. The boardroom conversion probably goes something like, "So, we gave them what they have been nagging us about forever, and they only bought a fraction of what we assumed they would. See? Never listen to your customers, because they don't know what they want." :p

Vipoid
22-06-2015, 08:58
Jezzals, radioactive rocks, radioactive bullets, lightning weapons. Yep, they're Skaven.

Well now I just want to make a Ad Mech army with Skaven models...

gwarsh41
22-06-2015, 21:44
I feel like as an army, and for the game, the release was a bummer. However for sales, it was probably a great release. I think half the players at my LGS started the army.

AngryAngel
22-06-2015, 22:08
It's not a real army yet. How are there no tanks in a list for the most advanced technological human faction? Huge mistake.

That and no special characters. Much as people hate them most of the time, they give a faction a personal face, and much needed HQ options, not just mechanically but in terms of extra models to convert from. Mechanicus is hurting even worse in terms of HQs than in the Heavy Support slot.

For an army based on machines and techno gods, not having special characters actually makes perfect sense. There is no individual, when all seek uniformity of purpose within the machine. Also, I like the sparse release, as it means more support later and tanks I can pick up then. I like they paced it out because it means you can grow the army slowly, and at the end have a full army. An escalation buy, if you will.



I feel like as an army, and for the game, the release was a bummer. However for sales, it was probably a great release. I think half the players at my LGS started the army.

I have to disagree, the army is pretty nice, and doesn't completely sticker shock you. If it was much bigger, the army would completely turn off possible buy ins with the size and scope of it. However, with just a few units in each splash, it feels a bit more manageable, at least to me. Growth I feel, with quality, is good for the game and growth can take time and the number of people who bought in will manifest more later down the road and you'll see how much of a success it was.

Azazyll
22-06-2015, 23:21
For an army based on machines and techno gods, not having special characters actually makes perfect sense. There is no individual, when all seek uniformity of purpose within the machine.

They're not tyranids or old school necrons. There's still a fabricator general. Every indication points to magi at the very least having quite strong personalities, and rather violent disagreements with each other. That's part of why I love the mechanicus; they're crazy religious fanatics, each of whom thinks there's only one right way to worship the machine-god, but none of them agree on that right way!

Even servitors malfunction occasionally and exhibit personality. If the AdMech never get special characters it will be to the detriment of the faction.

AngryAngel
22-06-2015, 23:31
They're not tyranids or old school necrons. There's still a fabricator general. Every indication points to magi at the very least having quite strong personalities, and rather violent disagreements with each other. That's part of why I love the mechanicus; they're crazy religious fanatics, each of whom thinks there's only one right way to worship the machine-god, but none of them agree on that right way!

Even servitors malfunction occasionally and exhibit personality. If the AdMech never get special characters it will be to the detriment of the faction.

Perhaps, but then we're dealing with the cannon fodder of mechanicus and not the higher ups so far. So honestly, the lack of character, still makes perfect sense. These high end, personalities still might seem to run/control hundreds or thousands of other troops under them. As well, few of them I would imagine would expose themselves to actual harm if they had to. I think the imperatives for the skittari rather perfectly show how they would do things, float above in a battle fleet, or in a very protected strongpoint while they look through the eyes and senses of their minions and take operational control when they need to.

If they never get special characters, I would still like them just the same and I don't think it would take away anything from the armies appeal over all.

As yes, some on the high end of the scale would have personality and be quite firm with what they wish, however I can't see them, with all that power and all those minions, putting themselves on the 40k battle field to expose themselves to harm, they aren't brave, they have no reason to test their mettle in combat and would have access to so much more information from a strong point leading the battle from afar like a dark puppet master. After all, why would they need to ever head to the battlefield if they can control each soldier in their command completely as they do with the skittari ? At that point the difference is rather slim if they are there in body, or in all the bodies present to do their will and bring them back what they seek.

MajorWesJanson
23-06-2015, 01:02
The main drawback of the Mechanius releases compared to earlier army startups is that there is no longer metal/resin models that can fill out the line with lesser units and characters. Necrons, Tau, Dark Eldar all started out with similar numbers of plastic kits (3-5 each) as both Skitarii (4) and Cult (3 + character) but the older releases had metal models and units to fill out the line. Dual kits now days mean that Skitarii and Cult have a similar number of unique units as Tau, Crons, and DE started with, the lack of metal/resin means far less character models, which was pointed out as a lack of HQ choices. Future releases could easily fix that however, and there are some obvious gaps in the design range that can be filled to bulk out the armies (rather than merging the two)

Even better, there are a number of units mentioned in the fluff, existing as current models, or logically could be used to "double dip" with other armies to fill in gaps:
Skitarii Prime Alpha- HQ choice for Skitarii would be easy to do, a clampack. Think of the Cadre Fireblade for Tau.
Techpriest + Servitors- used by Guard, Servitors used by Techmarines, and would make for a cheap basic troop choice for Cult Mech.
Flier- easily shared by Skitarii and Cult Mech to fill in their FA slots.

Azazyll
23-06-2015, 02:17
Sure, there are ways to explain away the HQs, somewhat undermined by the release of the Dominus, but it's just a bit dull. HQs give armies personality; most people like them. There's no really compelling reason not to have a Skitarii general, and plenty of reasons this would add to player experience. It's also decidedly odd on GW's part considering how strongly geared they've made the rules towards characters from a mechanical perspective.

The current line has no real centerpiece models either, aside from the Dominus. Nothing to really lavish a modeler or painter's attention on like a big vehicle, monstrous creature, dreadnought or character. The dominus or perhaps datasmith, but the robots are widely perceived as a bit lackluster, certainly not centerpiece material, and any other model is likely to be one among many in a unit. Hard to get terribly excited about that after a while.

MajorWesJanson
23-06-2015, 02:37
Sure, there are ways to explain away the HQs, somewhat undermined by the release of the Dominus, but it's just a bit dull. HQs give armies personality; most people like them. There's no really compelling reason not to have a Skitarii general, and plenty of reasons this would add to player experience. It's also decidedly odd on GW's part considering how strongly geared they've made the rules towards characters from a mechanical perspective.

The current line has no real centerpiece models either, aside from the Dominus. Nothing to really lavish a modeler or painter's attention on like a big vehicle, monstrous creature, dreadnought or character. The dominus or perhaps datasmith, but the robots are widely perceived as a bit lackluster, certainly not centerpiece material, and any other model is likely to be one among many in a unit. Hard to get terribly excited about that after a while.

In the book, maybe. At least there are some nice Mechanicus bits to put on the new Knight kit.

Nazguire
23-06-2015, 11:09
I personally don't see anything wrong with the Skitarri or Ad Mec releases visually.

The issue I have is that they were clearly designed to be one list, but were decided to be separated fairly late down the design process. Obviously for commercial reasons.

They are quite easily able to combine to be one full army, and this was no doubt the long term intent.

That there are no special characters, a sole HQ choice for CM and none for Skitarri, and no centrepiece unit suggests to me at least, problems in the design process over which way they should go with them.

TheFang
23-06-2015, 11:21
For all we know there are tanks and fliers already designed.

I wouldn't have minded the split if they'd come out further apart. As it is releasing them weeks apart they may as well have been the same codex. The only reason I can see is "no codex entry without models". Releasing all of the Skitarii and Cult kits over a month and a half would have left a long wait for the codex or released the codex without a full model range available. Skitarii then Cult six months later wouldn't have made it so obvious it was one army cleaved into two bite sized chunks.

On the HQ front it's odd that the supporting novel Skitarius features "A discovery of ancient technology sends a skitarii legion, commanded by Alpha Primus Haldron-44 Stroika, into battle on a forge world overrun by Chaos. When a cataclysm cuts him off from his tech-priest overseers, Stroika must rally his forces and battle corrupt machines and Chaos Space Marines if he is to achieve victory." where Stroika is a Skitarius in command of a Legion. Clearly the brief for the novel had the potential for a command level Skitarius.

Havarel
23-06-2015, 11:36
I do wonder if they intended to release them so close. When the first one came out I thought 'great idea, a small force usable as allied formation, get people used to AdMech. Much better than trying to swamp out an entire army in one go'.

Then the next one came out almost immediately and still didn't feel like a full army....Hmmm... I still stick with it being a success, though a strange tasting one.
This I suspect. The initial ideas/designs etc will have been started a few years ago so they won't have had the release schedule set in stone.

As for the number of units, remember GW have a limited capacity to produce new stuff. Each additional unit for AdMech would have meant one less unit for another army (ie the new Eldar jetbikes). These releases are the start of a full AdMech army, which they'll be able to grow and expand down the years with each new codex.

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Azazyll
23-06-2015, 14:28
In the book, maybe. At least there are some nice Mechanicus bits to put on the new Knight kit.

Very true. Knights are really more their own thing though. They're a centerpiece for any imperial army

beanerboy
23-06-2015, 21:00
The problem is I have a tight hobby budget and the rate of releases really make it tough to pick up a brand new army. I did impulse the first skitari bits and have really enjoyed using them. However the mechanicus came to soon and I still haven't even picked up the book. Now the catch 22, new budget is in for my hobby fix.

Option
A) two dunecrawlers and a box of skitari (the models I was aiming for to tidy off my skitari)
B) mechanicus book, hq, 2 boxes of troops (the start of a mechanicus army which I would include in all skitari mixed lists)
C) the new marine and new dark angels book as I like having the up to date books and have small collections of both armies
D) the new knight kit and book.

All of these things have come out since I last blew my budget on skitari as an impulse.

Voss
23-06-2015, 21:45
I do wonder if they intended to release them so close. When the first one came out I thought 'great idea, a small force usable as allied formation, get people used to AdMech. Much better than trying to swamp out an entire army in one go'.

Well, a thought on this subject in the aftermath of Imperial Knights. Are they going to be re-released next year as a full army with a couple more toys next year? It strikes me as a distinct possibility.

Gazak Blacktoof
23-06-2015, 22:45
Knights are really more their own thing though. They're a centerpiece for any imperial army

None more fittingly than a Skitarii army though.

I'm planning to get a Questoris Knight Styrix and surround it with skitarii. I can't think of many cooler armies in 40K right now. I've no idea how effective it will be. But it'll look awesome! You've got to love the look of the Volkite chierovile.

My only complaint with the release of the two factions is that the Dominus can't be taken as part of a skiitarii force. Though I'm thinking I might go for my first unbound force to field such an awesome looking model, even if it doesn't quite fit the background.