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Cornelius
03-07-2006, 16:46
For what it's worth, I don't think the Dawn blade looks like the WL sword at all. I'd be more concerned about the Exarch's sword looking too much like an Imperial chainsword.

OMG an Imperial Aspect Warrior! ;)

Orbital
03-07-2006, 17:18
For what it's worth, I don't think the Dawn blade looks like the WL sword at all. I'd be more concerned about the Exarch's sword looking too much like an Imperial chainsword.

I've never liked that, either.

Damepan
03-07-2006, 17:31
So what do you think an eldar chainsword should looks like?
Curved ?

Orbital
03-07-2006, 17:32
Why use a chainsword at all? That's an Imperial trademark.

Lyinar
03-07-2006, 17:33
If it is the Biting Blade... How exactly would you model a chainsword that doesn't look anything like the Imperial chainsword? I've seen chainswords on various stuff that are in no way connected with GW that look like Imperial chainswords, simply because it's a pretty iconic weapon... There isn't much you can do to make it look 'different'.

ionfish
03-07-2006, 17:42
Orbital, you seem to be obsessed with excising anything that you deem to be 'Imperial' from the Eldar. All well and good, as far as it goes, but back in the day - when these units were first created - there wasn't the current delineation between races' weaponry. Lascannons and chainswords aren't Imperial weaponry; the names are. The Eldar have laser weaponry; the Eldar have power weapons; the Eldar have plasma weapons. The root concepts of plenty of 40k weaponry is the same, and they don't belong to one army or race. They're just called different things. Why can't the Eldar have chainswords?

AdmiralDick
03-07-2006, 18:10
i think it would be genuinly impossible to make a chainsword look different enough from any other chainsword to make it substantially different so we are left with two choices: either get over the differences and just accept the fact that even if they were created at opposite sides of the universe by different races they would still look similar because that is the nature of the item (you don't seem to complain much about regular swords or even powerswords looking 'the same') or try and eradicate chainswords and make them altogther more exotic. what about a circular weapon with a chain edge? or a glaive? or some other kind of two-handed or double-bladed weapon?

i've always thought there needed to be more differentiation between each races most basic weapon, making it more iconic and visually catching. Space Marines with sword, Inquisition with hammers, Chaos with axes and so on. the Eldar could have had something altogher more alien than a sword.

however of all the weapons that i want to see in the game the one i most eargerly anticipate is the power-nunchucks, which my gaming group has been fanatically obsessed about since someone mistakenly thought the Space Marine command sprue came with a set. sadly it turned out just to be a pair of scrolls. nunchucks would have been a lot cooler.

Damepan
03-07-2006, 18:10
The rumor that I have heard is that the sword option is an upgrade that will ignore Invul Saves in addition to regular armor saves.

Too much powerful...for me.
I think that some weapon similar to the one that Ivy owns in Soul Calibur II and III would be interesting as an alternative eldar chainsword... lots of conversion work, although.

Flame Boy
03-07-2006, 18:18
Orbital, you seem to be obsessed with excising anything that you deem to be 'Imperial' from the Eldar. All well and good, as far as it goes, but back in the day - when these units were first created - there wasn't the current delineation between races' weaponry. Lascannons and chainswords aren't Imperial weaponry; the names are. The Eldar have laser weaponry; the Eldar have power weapons; the Eldar have plasma weapons. The root concepts of plenty of 40k weaponry is the same, and they don't belong to one army or race. They're just called different things. Why can't the Eldar have chainswords?

I'm inclined to agree with this entirely. Swooping Hawks have jump packs under another name now that they are just jump infantry rather than having the rules they had in 2nd edition. Eldar have melta/fusion technology, laser technology. The Scatter laser, for example, is most likely a layman's term, since I believe there is already an Eldar name for it... (Sierbahn, just had to look it up). They can cook up silly names for them if they want, like calling Eldar scouts Rangers just because it sounds different, but changing the weapons now seems silly. What else would be an appropriate weapon for the Scorpions? I've always considered that Chainswords were very appropriate, to be honest. The combination between a viscious little pistol spitting out razor-edged spinning projectiles and a razor-edged spinning blade seems to match. Better than giving them a regular sword or a power weapon in my opinion. I don't see why Eldar should have to invent a new type of cutlery just because the Imperium apparently had knives, forks, spoons and chopsticks first. :p

Anyway, I've gone way off-topic. I think it's very bizarre that the latest info from the person Orbital approached seems to contradict a lot of the earlier info he gathered. It is most perplexing to get such contradictory information, but it certainly inspires some interest. I wonder if GW is spinning some counter-rumours to keep us on our toes? That would certainly stop us losing interest before the codex is released if we don't feel we can rely on any rumours totally due to contradictions. :p

IJW
03-07-2006, 18:28
I don't see why Eldar should have to invent a new type of cutlery just because the Imperium apparently had knives, forks, spoons and chopsticks tens of thousands of years later. :p
There, fixed that for you... ;)

Flame Boy
03-07-2006, 18:53
There, fixed that for you... ;)

Well, I was talking from a fluff perspective rather than a chronological perspective, as I don't recall reading any background involving Eldar eating anything... They seem to drink wine, but that's all I know. Since the Eldar have been around since the human race was just a twinkle in the eye of... something, I'd imagine they have developed everything before humans. Perhaps Space Marines will have to relinquish their chainswords now? :D

Orbital
03-07-2006, 18:55
Orbital, you seem to be obsessed with excising anything that you deem to be 'Imperial' from the Eldar.

Easy there, Tex. I'm discussing the topic, just like everyone else is. Don't get snarky with me just for having a preference.

I know that, back in the day, Space Marines used Shuriken Catapults and Eldar used Laspistols and etc. etc. That has since changed, and I'm fine with it. That era is no longer with us.

What I think is that chainswords aren't just a weapon.... they are an Imperium staple. They are a very, very distinct kind of fictional weapon which is an important part of Imperial iconography. The chainsword is held aloft over many Imperial hero's heads as they vanquish their foes.

And I'm fine with that.

The chainsword doesn't seem as much a part of Eldar iconography as it seems to be an randomized add-on to the models by people who can't remember if we're still playing 2nd ed or not. Striking Scorpions have them... and it gives them no advantage over other S4 models that have them. The chainsword is what gives them their S4, you say? Then what about those poor Storm Guardians who are stuck with S3? Some of them have regular old swords, some of them have chainswords, no variations in stats or performance in any way.

Chainswords on Imperials: Seems to be one of those icons that has really become tied to them (is there anyone who hasn't heard "bolter and chainsword" roll off someone else's tongue?).

Chainswords on Eldar: Either make them into something or don't. Don't just hand one out to all the Striking Scorpions and every third Guardian without expecting to hear "what was the point of that?" from a few people. Like me.

senban
03-07-2006, 19:40
The chainsword thing doesn't bother me but I'd rather they rebranded las/laser weapons, and they might as well change the name of the chainsword at least while thier at it. Drifting right off topic for a moment it has always bothered me that a weapon as iconically 40k as the chainsword gets no special rules.

Orbital
03-07-2006, 19:41
Actually for about an entire year I always thought a Chainsword was a power weapon by default.

Murrithius
03-07-2006, 19:44
Drifting right off topic for a moment it has always bothered me that a weapon as iconically 40k as the chainsword gets no special rules.

Do you mean the way that a 5 ft long blade with whirring teeth does as much damage as a baseball bat?:D

Sildani
03-07-2006, 19:46
I confused the Biting Blade's rules with the rules for all chainswords for a while.

LOVE the new pics! Jes Goodwin goes from strength to strength!! The "school rune" on the back, the way it... just... looks! Just excellent!

n00bLord
03-07-2006, 20:07
Murrithius it seems like it does in 40k. A Chainsword is as good as a stick for CC. Both would weild no attributes to their respective user and both be considered basic close combat weapons. I think Chain Swords should like go through very light armor, like puncture 6+ saves or something. They seem like they would be better than a fork for a melee weapon. Other than that the new Eldar models will be very appealing to me, and lets hope they do a good job with the rules

ionfish
03-07-2006, 23:16
Drifting right off topic for a moment it has always bothered me that a weapon as iconically 40k as the chainsword gets no special rules.They used to, of course. Another good reason to bring back save modifiers...

Sorry if I came off a little snappily Orb, it's a bit hot here and I tend to get cranky in the heat.

Messiah
03-07-2006, 23:36
Chainswords on Eldar: Either make them into something or don't. Don't just hand one out to all the Striking Scorpions and every third Guardian without expecting to hear "what was the point of that?" from a few people. Like me.

I could be that chainswords are a technology inspired by biting blades..

Orbital
03-07-2006, 23:37
They used to, of course. Another good reason to bring back save modifiers...

Sorry if I came off a little snappily Orb, it's a bit hot here and I tend to get cranky in the heat.

Oh, dude... I'm the last person who should lecture others about being too snappy. Fuggedaboutit :)

Brimstone
03-07-2006, 23:42
Split from 40K rumours for those who cannot stay on topic.

ionfish
03-07-2006, 23:46
Messiah: or possibly just a striking example of parallel evolution.

sigur
03-07-2006, 23:54
Everyone (of the old races) uses Chainswords. Eldar, Imperium, Orks, Squats, ...

It's just a dead-cool 40k thing. Don't make things overly complicated. It's just a matter of style.

MadJackMcJack
04-07-2006, 00:47
Of course, the Ork chainsword is far superior to all other chainswords, as it has a stonkin' huge engine strapped to it for maximum choppyness.

n00bLord
04-07-2006, 00:55
Orks don't like deserve to be brought into this, because we all know orks are the dominate weapon's research and engineers, their supiorer technology enables them to weild a wide array of weapons that, lets say the Eldar and Imperium have copied off. Besides Orks would be the most perfect candidate for a weapon of whirring destruction because its loud!

luchog
04-07-2006, 22:03
Personally, the chainsword has always been my least favorite weapon, aesthetically. The whole concept just seems faintly ridiculous to me.

Ophidicus
04-07-2006, 22:03
"It's loud" actually seems to be one of the purposes for the Chainsword's use (rules notwithstanding, but who gives a fish?), it's a terror weapon... the psychological effect of a screaming blade that tears away chunks of flesh must be pretty hefty.... I mean it's not as if anyone's ever actually run at me swinging a chainsaw or owt but I imagine it must be pretty unnerving. In the Striking Scorpions' case it's probably an effect enhanced by their combat style...

Approaching, swung low to the ground, silent save for the click of carapace plates, dark and dripping menace, then exploding into living death as the predator leaps, his jaws spitting lethal blasts and his weapon screeching as it rips out a throat, spraying black gore to the wind....

That's why I like Striking Scorpions. Ninja insect elves shooting lasers from their gobs are cool. Chainsaws are cool. Do the sums cherubs.

Rabid Bunny 666
04-07-2006, 22:11
Well, how about the Imperium nicking the idea off Eldar during the Great Crusade/first period of expansion, and in this time, it becoming the stuff of Legends within the Imperium.

and from an Imperial Perspective, they made it, the Eldar copied them because they're dying ;)

also, anyone who has used a Chanisaw knows how fun it is.

n00bLord
04-07-2006, 22:23
Chain any thing sure does make a mess out of any living thing. Oops! Going to need to get a napkin!

Evilgnome
04-07-2006, 23:31
I have the same aversion as Orbital and replaced all the swords on my scorpions with the scimitar style sword from the Shining Spear exarch.

The rules are no different and from a fluff point of view I thought the blade could vibrate(oo-er!) or some other shenannegins to get the same effect.

Hellebore
05-07-2006, 08:45
I prefer the chainsword on Scorpions. It reminds me of the slightly nausiating method all arthropods use to eat their prey- sort of a (dis)assembly line of moving mandibles slicing and tearing, feeding the ever more heavily shredded material into their mouths.

When I imagine a Striking Scorpion using a Chainsword, I see the whirring teeth pulling enemy meat closer to his mouth, all the while mandiblasters are plasmafying the enemy's face. :evilgrin:

As an aside, when I rewrote the Eldar Codex myself, I removed the 'chaninsword' and gave them all 'biting blades'. The Exarch Biting blade wargear item was removed from the list.

My version of the biting blade gave +1 S and was a Heavy Close Combat weapon (reduced armoru saves to 4+).

It seemed a better idea as I could not believe the eldar hadn't created a chainsword superior to everyone elses.

Hellebore

gitburna
05-07-2006, 10:10
Although - did I hear SS are going down to strength 3 now too? That would make fists only S6 = no instant kill against marines etc!?!?! :confused:

Maybe that is how the BB will be more viable - by the fist being less deadly?

Exactly, if the fists only strength 6, 7 with crushing blow then a cheaper strength 5 [+2 strength - executioners already get that] full initiative weapon might not be nearly so bad.

It also stops the scorpions being quite so rounded now they're[is it confirmed?] moving to the troops section:- They use the grenades for dealing with vehicles [the exarch is not so uber hard anymore] and the prospect of s9 hiden infiltrating powerfists backed up by Yada yadda is removed.

senban
05-07-2006, 17:20
they're[is it confirmed?] moving to the troops section:-
It's pretty much been disfirmed. Dumb idea anyway IMO. Scorps are quite clearly ninja commando bunny wabbits and have no place at all in the troops section. Warp Spiders seem to be confirmed as fast attack though so the 1 squad of each aspect Biel-Tan army seems to = GO! (Which is good news for me.)

and the prospect of s9 hiden infiltrating powerfists backed up by Yada yadda is removed.
I do hope, by some twist of rules that that's still possible. I quite like being able to go boxing with monoliths and land raiders.

According to a source of mine (who I made up in my head) in the 5th ed Eldar Codex eldar chainswords will be renamed "thorn-blades" and all the miniatures will be tiny robots with their own personalities. The guy who told me this said that they are a bit hard to paint because they never seem to be happy with the colour scheme you try to give them.

lapis_lazuli
05-07-2006, 20:38
I've always assumed that the early human explorers probably reverse engineered the few items of Eldar technology they could get their hands on, or else produced crude copies of what they saw during sporadic contact with the pixies. Hence we get similar Imperial tech like chainswords, power weapons, lascannons, fancy power generators and sensors. Fanw*nk alert! :o

susu.exp
07-07-2006, 20:21
I thought the blade could vibrate(oo-er!) or some other shenannegins to get the same effect.

They used to use those, but then there was the fall... Think about it: If your decadence created a Chaos God, you would get rid of those vibrating swords and do it ASAP.