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Avian
27-06-2015, 10:05
I'm sure most of us have seen the AoS contents, but so far I haven't seen any poll to gauge people's reactions, so I thought I'd make one. Please choose the option that you feel best fits your reaction to the two pictures below.

Please try to limit your reaction to these two pictures, and not focus on other rumours as a lot of them just got debunked and we don't know how many more were also made up. Try to stick to what we know.

Sigmarite contents:
[removed]

Chaos contents
[removed]

Commisar
27-06-2015, 10:12
Sigmarites:
They do nothing for me, personally. They look a lot like fantasy space marines, which shows a lack of creativity. The radical departure from the look of the Empire makes me hope that sigmarites are their own, new, army list and that the Empire continue to exist.

Chaos:
I think these guys are awesome! A much needed update for chaos marauders, but they wouldn't look out of place mixed in with any of the current range. A really good job. I hope they come out with the same amount of love for the other three Chaos gods mind you, but Zeech and Slaanesh getting neglected seems likely given GW's previous form.

In Conclusion, even though I have Empire and Chaos forces, I will not be buying this box. But I definately would buy it if my Chaos army was not Slaanesh themed. I'm worried for my empire and may decide to sell them off when we see what else is coming out, but GW seem to know what they are doing with Chaos so it looks like that will become my main army.

blueraven84
27-06-2015, 10:15
Hurraa for Whineseers vocal minority, mostly positive. This is so much better than just drop dead fantasy battles that did not sell.

Artinam
27-06-2015, 10:17
Slightly negative, for now the sigmarites don't convince and look like repainted Blood Angels with Hammers.
However I'll wait for the better pictures and rules of the set.

The Chaos side look decent, they haven't changed the aesthetic a lot and I do like several of the models.

Greyshadow
27-06-2015, 10:23
Sigmarites:
Judging the pictures and not my shock at how different they are. They are nice enough models but they look like they are from some futuristic world and not the gritty medieval/renaissance-esque aesthetic I am partial too. They might look more to my tastes if they were painted more like historical knights I guess.

Chaos:
Yeah, I quite like em - although I want to stick them on square bases and rank them up. I prefer the lightly armoured men to the current marauders but the knights are no-where near as iconic and nicely designed as the current warriors of chaos models.

mrtn
27-06-2015, 10:26
I'm sure the 40k converters will love that box, but that's not the historically based* ranked up game I want. No need to say "I quit" since I haven't played a game or bought anything from GW for three years, so I'm already an ex customer, but still...

*yeah, I know. Within reason.

Spiney Norman
27-06-2015, 10:30
I'm sure most of us have seen the AoS contents, but so far I haven't seen any poll to gauge people's reactions, so I thought I'd make one. Please choose the option that you feel best fits your reaction to the two pictures below.

Please try to limit your reaction to these two pictures, and not focus on other rumours as a lot of them just got debunked and we don't know how many more were also made up. Try to stick to what we know.

Sigmarite contents:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=215857&d=1435327952

Chaos contents
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11144420_10200669327013583_5070534323264901976_n.j pg?oh=56775993bff72e585096c6b85bd44511&oe=5619B879

Sigmarites
I'm not really feeling it, the de-personalising nature of the golden masks turns me off right away, the shield/hammer guys are such a radical departure from the look and feel of warhammer of the past and a considerable leap towards PP's warmahorde style, not a fan.

The two-handed hammer guys are much more of the same, the whole 'living statue' vibe they seem to have going on worked much better for Oldhammer Tomb Kings, but for some reason it just seems to jar here.

The angels (if that is what they are) are a bit of a mixed bag, on the one hand I kind of like the wings, but being joined to their base by a couple of long scrolls looks dumb (same issue I had with the morghasts and their 'ghostly anchors', flying stands would be preferable imo. The have the same problem as the rest of the infantry, golden face masks are not a good look.

The hero on the big cat monster is probably the best thing about the sigmarite army, the cat looks interesting and the open-faced helm actually shows his humanity rather than the faceless automaton look the troops have going on.

Now the guy at the back holding the standard... obviously the picture is blurry and we don't have much information to go on at this point, but he does look a bit like a vampire, why the hell is there a vampire in my army of holy sigmarite warriors?

All things considered the only thing that I really like about these guys is they are 'necron-easy' to paint with all that metal.

The chaos army, in my view succeeds in all the ways where the sigmarite one fails, these models 'feel' like war hammer, big burly guys with oversized weapons.

I love the tribesmen/marauders/whatever they are, GW should have replaced their ageing marauder box with these guys 5 years ago in my view

The Chosen (if thats what they are) look really awesome as well, like a really good evolution of the current chosen (plus they knock the ugly khorne wrath mongers out of the park), chaosy looking helms, big weapons and plenty of bling, chaos clearly hasn't changed too much in the transition, I'm sensing a slight influence from the most recent 'harry the hammer' model on these guys, which I absolutely love.

The monster at the back is a little blurred, esp the head, but from the look of him he's a pretty nice model, he also screams 'spawn', and being on a round base I can see a dual use for 40k players there. Probably need to wait for better pictures or the WD itself before making a final judgement on that one though.

The characters look very promising, I really like the chaos banner (if that is what it is), though it is mahoosive. The general character also looks pretty cool, he seems to share his base with some kind of beast/pet/familiar which I very much approve of.

Your poll could do with a 50:50 straight-down-the-middle answer since I dislike half the models and like the other half ;)

theunwantedbeing
27-06-2015, 10:31
I like the gold space marines, they'de be an awesome addition to any marine army with a weapon swap.
Infact, I'm almost tempted to get hold of them for that exact purpose.

The chaos stuff looks very rushed, almost like they just raided a bitz box of chaos stuff and slapped it on a bunch of spare muscular bodies somebody had sculpted for no reason. Can't say I'm all that impressed, especially as the gold marines are much more interesting looking.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to be warhammer, it looks more like a couple of 40k armies where both players agreed not to take any guns.

Malagor
27-06-2015, 10:40
Sigmarines: Well my name for them says it all.
They look ok, they do but they just don't fit.

Chaos:
Looks fairly normal, looks ok I guess.
But, I'm sick and tired of Khorne. There are 3 other gods, nurgle got some love with Glottkin but the other two get nothing especially my favorite god which is Slaanesh.

Zingraff
27-06-2015, 10:52
I don't understand the departure from the Landsknecht look, to generic, bland, post-WoW fantasy. This isn't 'My Empire', and it never will be.

thesoundofmusica
27-06-2015, 10:55
I get a kind of 'age of mythology'/hoplite vibe from those Sigmarites. I think they look "ok" but they certainly dont fit in with anything else Warhammer. Is that the point, entirely new factions with updated aesthetics so you have to but everything from scratch? Probably.

Those chaos models look very much in line with the skullreaper/wrathmonger box which for me was a total flop.

That said, all characters look hulking and epic. I especially like the big cat mount!

stroller
27-06-2015, 10:58
OK: It's good to see that GW seem to be sticking with an increased output of new models.

On the basis of the pictures (allowing for fuzz etc), I'll probably buy the box set, keep the rules and look at those, and put the figures into my space marines and chaos build & paint pile.

I LIKE several of the models: I just don't see what they've got to do with Warhammer (my version of it anyway).

verydarkshadow
27-06-2015, 11:03
Very much mostly positive for me. Aside from a limited number of poses among some of the Sigmarites, and the marauders / armour-less Chaos warriors, I like this new direction! I realize its very Blizzard-esque, but frankly, I enjoy this aesthetic (or at least, this particular instance of it).


That, and the 'battle cat' general is just too damn cool!! :D

syrme
27-06-2015, 11:04
They (sigmarites) are certainly different but pretty nice minis. Still until we see more detailed pics... The Lord on the beast looks great as does the bsb (is it a skeleton?) I hope there is an option for open helms on the foot troops too but I'll convert a few if not. I definitely will not be painting the, gold though!

I like the Khorne models. Aesthetic is similar and huge improvement on the chaos warriors/ marauders that I presume they are replacing.

StygianBeach
27-06-2015, 11:06
The Sigmarites look good, but not something I would buy.

I do not get why people think they look like anything PP have already done. They look more like Captain Dante of the Blood Angles than anything PP has done.
To use hyperbole, it is like people saying Dracula ripped off Twilight.

What I like about them is that the seem inspired by Metropolis/ Buck Rogers/ Barbarella, iconic 20th century Sci-fi. I like that there is a distinct coherent look that has history, and not just spikes and shoulder pads.
This is what I liked about the Empire, Kislev and the individual Elector States.

Chaos looks like it did before, for some reason though I am reminded of Mad Max and that is new.

If the other races are also revealed to also have some other 20th ed sci-fi inspired look, I would be quite happy.

I just hope there is something I would also like to spend money on.

Nightfall Shimmer
27-06-2015, 11:11
Love the Sigmarine models. The paint scheme the 'Eavy Metal team chose sucks though. Mine will be in silver and black, maybe with gold edging. I don't know. Those 'Angels' I really wanna convert them to have spears, I think it fits better. (But then, I've never really been a fan of hammers...)

Chaos? Meh, Normal spikey Khorne guys with muscles. Nothing new.

Tupinamba
27-06-2015, 11:16
Utterly hate it.

It´s the confirmation of the rumoured change in background, aesthetics and gameplay towards this WOW/Warmahordes thing mixed with the worst part of 40k.

BorderKing
27-06-2015, 11:25
The only model I like is the mounted sigmarine. I doubt I'll get the box unless it has the rules and will try and get the mounted one on ebay. If this is new Empire and not a new faction I might ignore this edition.

It's also a hammer
27-06-2015, 11:33
Well at least one long standing question has finally been answered...

one of the expunged primarchs was Sigmar who led the Knights of Azyr Legion.

ik0ner
27-06-2015, 11:34
If I ignore whose corpse these new models are walking over I would say that the new chaos could be somewhat interesting, but I'll wait for better pictures. The sigmarines look ridiculous in my eyes, their future cousins at least have some sort of power pack and exoskeleton to propel that ludicrous amount of armour forwards, and these guys look even more bulky...:wtf: Their forearms looks to be as wide as a Greatswords torso :(

Gork or Possibly Mork
27-06-2015, 12:29
Sigmarites: I mostly like them. Aesthetically they sort of have the Slaanesh hellstrider look with that greek, italian greave-plate leg armor mixture which i like, mixed with Sanguinary Guard spartan style curass torso mixed with some DE knight gorget & Balthasar Gelt sort of Kingdom of heaven crusader death mask heads with chaos style big pauldrons but less OTT than marines. They're basically the best blend of concepts for an elite super human force. They're basically angelic looking plate armored spartans with Thor warhammers and epic Templar shields. I feel they're fairly unique and not overly 40Kish and they put other companies ( Bliizzard, Mantic, Warmahordes etc. ) concepts/models to shame.

Chaos: Not a big fan of the overly muscular six pack abs but i know it has a lot to do with the pale scheme which is ok but 'eavy metal tend to over paint too sharp and over contrast those details too much. Other than that they look fine.

DarKolia
27-06-2015, 12:41
My reaction was:
OMG! OMG! OMG!
They have done it... They have destroyed war hammer... And I am not going to play to this new Warhammer 04K...

Whirlwind
27-06-2015, 12:43
I do not get why people think they look like anything PP have already done.

There is a passing resemblance to these though http://privateerpress.com/files/products/42013_PrecursorKnights_WEB.jpg

Colour scheme is better too.

Interesting dynamics on the poll. Definitely a 50:50 split in views on them. Those that don't like the models appear to do so with a passion, whereas those that like them appear to only like a portion of the models. What will be more interesting is a poll in a few weeks on whether people bought the set as it appears at the moment that based on current discussions we have:-

Like the models will buy the set for fantasy (appears to be small proportion)
Like most of the models will buy them for 40k (seems to be a larger proportion)
Like the models but have too many other projects at the moment; probably buy them later (a small minority)
Like the models don't like the aesthetics for Warhammer and probably won't buy (small minority)
Don't really like the models but will probably buy them if the rules are OK (significant minority)
Don't like the models and not going to buy (significant minority)
Don't like the aesthetics and not going to buy (small minority also partially merges with the one above)

Note these are just my perception a proper poll would be needed to determine what the numbers are.

Still as it stands appears about 50% at least of Warhammer players are going to turn their back on this boxed set.

Gork or Possibly Mork
27-06-2015, 13:03
Hey Avian i'm curious what did you think about the new models?

If you don't like the Sigmarines you're probably gonna hate the new orcs....lol

215988

Malagor
27-06-2015, 13:06
Hey Avian i'm curious what did you think about the new models?

If you don't like the Sigmarines you're probably gonna hate the new orcs....lol

215988
Need more skulls.

Philhelm
27-06-2015, 13:11
Mostly Negative

Chaos: I've never been a Chaos player, so wasn't emotionally invested in their release. While aesthetic changes were certainly made, they aren't all that different, but I expected Chaos players to make out like bandits with the upcoming changes to army design. From what I can tell, I really like the Marauders, although I would have given them a normal skin tone.

Sigmarites: As an Empire player, my first reaction was soul-crushing. In part this was because a lot of the rumors were that we would have the new Sigmarites alongside regular humans, and I was looking forward to see which direction GW went with the regular human faction. I was very disappointed when I saw the Battlecat mount, the angel wings, and the Death Masks of Sanguinius. I actually think that the hammer and shield infantry would look decent with different heads, such as hooded, bare, or with normal helms. However, I'm of the opinion that there will also be a regular human faction, and that we'll see a Space Marine/Imperial Guard dynamic in Age of Sigmar (at least I hope so!). I suppose it makes sense for GW to introduce a new faction, and to have the first two factions be otherworldly considering the state of things. If the Sigmarites are the human faction in its entirety, I'm not interested, although I think it is unlikely.

Also, the round bases were obviously confirmed beyond any doubt, which wasn't all that disappointing if for no other reason than it was already anticipated by this point.

I was originally planning on purchasing the boxed set, since I want to give this new game a chance and wanted the new human models, but considering that the Sigmarites aren't really normal humans, I'll pass. I'll probably just purchase the rulebook and look forward to other releases. I'm sure it will be a long wait.

StygianBeach
27-06-2015, 13:22
There is a passing resemblance to these though http://privateerpress.com/files/products/42013_PrecursorKnights_WEB.jpg


Joke right?

The precursor Knights look like the only thing that took a thought to design was the shoulder pads, and the only decision there was "make em square".

Dante (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dante)

Artoris
27-06-2015, 13:29
Mostly positive!
Not huge on the Sigmarines - although I can't deny how cool battlecat looks!
As for chaos - never been a chaos player in the past, but if we see more in this vein (particularly the marauders - I think they are quite dynamic) I could be persuaded to get myself a warband.

If I can find a friend to split the box with, I'll pick it up - if not, I'll probably wait until we (hopefully) see regiment boxes or a battleforce.

Groza
27-06-2015, 13:30
Today I woke up and thought I would have calmed myself from yesterday's shock of my worst fears and predictions coming true.
But I came across this picture and there was a surge of frustration going through me again.
I feel it is so hypocritical for anyone to lash out against those of us who had a negative reaction to this, even when it was bordering on being nothing more than repetitive whining.
How can you compare these two pictures and not notice the huge leap in aesthetics.
How do you go from this (http://www.geocities.ws/lmstanduk/Warhammerpreviewpictures/Empireplastics.gif) to this (https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11018319_1625092687728627_5807353136143216109_n.jp g?oh=77f962aec399ce51e115a725d3591d38&oe=55E8F6BE)? How is this ok in any way? Only by twisting around facts to make it seem like there was an all-important necessity to keep warhammer around as merely a PRODUCT and the only way of achieving this was to sell it out by 40fying it and warmhordesing it beyond recognition.

I'll say this game has changed plenty throughout the years. But never so dramatically and so fundamentally. Everything I have been speaking out against regarding the direction GW has been steering WHFB into during the last decade is exemplified in this comparison. It has all been leading up to here. It isn't a sudden, unpredictable change, but the natural progression that stems from their BUSINESS decisions and nothing more. And the fact that there are people who applaud this is nothing other than proof that those business decisions are not groundless.

So these thoughts are my reaction to the age of sigmar models now that I've slept on it and I think they haven't changed in the slightest from when I first saw them only because these thoughts were boiling inside me for a long time now.

ik0ner
27-06-2015, 13:35
... but less OTT than marines...

See this is really hard for me to understand, I think they look ALOT more OTT than regular marines.

TheLionReturns
27-06-2015, 13:36
I quite like the Sigmarites. They don't really fit in with existing warhammer fantasy but taken as a stand alone product out of that context I quite like them. I am not tempted to start them though. I already have Dark Angels as a heavily armoured super human army and I don't feel a need for another in my model collection. I think they do have potential as a base for conversion for Blood Angels and Emperor's Children armies too.

The Chaos side doesn't really appeal to me. I always prefered Chaos warriors in baroque armour and the bizarre mutations as an aesthetic. This over muscled berserker look doesn't do it for me. Hopefully an future Tzeentch release will be closer to my liking.

This is not a particularly significant release for me though. What will dictate any future engagement with warhammer fantasy 9th edition will be the elf models they produce and whether they fit in with the style of my existing wood elves.

Lord Dan
27-06-2015, 13:38
#notmywarhammer

ihavetoomuchminis
27-06-2015, 13:39
#notmywarhammer

+1. Agreed.

And words.

ItsAquila
27-06-2015, 13:42
Slightly Positive

Sigmarines:

From a model standpoint: They are great. Good craftmanship, very dynamic poses. Good Job.

My actual opinion: I dislike them. A lot. I really struggel to see what these techno-angels on Sabercats have to do with the empire. I... its so very different. I like different usually. But they seem like something completly new, and I am unsure as to what I should think o them. They do not look grimdark to me, nor flawed/human. I suppose they are not supposed to be so, but I still dont know about it. I miss the "realism" in terms of arms and armor from old Empire. Even Karl Franz on his griffin wears a plate armor with a visor that he could put down. Simply with his hand. As in: simple srews and bolts which held that armor together. Sure, he was on a fantasy mount, but that mount too had typical medival armor. Like horse armor adapted for a different kind of mount which got used in the same way as a horse.

It was mostly a medival world, were certain fantasy things were injected.

These Sigmarines look like they are wearing sort of hydraulic servor-motor powerarmor with crystal membran wings. I... ugh. I dunno. Maybe thats just me being stuck up and not open for new ideas. I got to say though that I do not like that first impression. That might change though. Hopefully.

Chaos:

From a model standpoint: These are great too. Much details etc.

I dislike that GW seems to sort of only know one bodytype anymore between these chaos guys and the Sigmarines. Then again: Some old models were so horrible you couldnt even see any kind of bodytype besides: Man, thats all somewhat -wrong- I dont even.

Other then that I am less upset with them that the Sigmarines. Most likely because they do not break established visual boundaries as badly as the "new empire". :)

€dit: Also! Were are dem womans???

G.Hawke
27-06-2015, 13:43
wow there's some grade A crying going on here.

GW are making positive steps to re-envigorate a three decade old game that's not only stagnated but nearly crushed itself under its own weight. Instead of doing the same minor adjustments that don't really change anything and add a few new rules they've actuallyed decided to start from the beginning.

I think the 'its not the old world' thing is missing the point, since the point is exactly that it isn't the old world. The franchise looks like its entering a new brilliant world, freed from the classic warhammer (which you can still play btw) rules set of square bases and square units into what could potentially (pending rules) be a fantastic open tabletop battle system with all the best bits of warhammer with none of the sink holes.

but hey, if you want to go on crying about how something that was close to losing most of its fanbase and revenue got trashed then go ahead. I for one am pre-ordering the feth out of that boxset.

-Hawke

orzing
27-06-2015, 13:57
I can understand the negative reactions of players who play the actual warhammer.

I was a player years ago, have Brets, orcs, dark elves and ogres. But our game group lost the interest in the game, and finally we sell them, we are players of 40k since second edition, when end of times was out, we loved the new models, but not the rules, we don´t know how the game will be now, but on the miniatures term, for me are wonderfull, im thinking in more brutal orcs models than the actual ones, and seeing the sigmarite mounted hero, what they can do with new elven models sounds great.

They wanted a reboot on sales, lets see what happen, only time will tell.

ItsAquila
27-06-2015, 13:58
wow there's some grade A crying going on here.

GW are making positive steps to re-envigorate a three decade old game that's not only stagnated but nearly crushed itself under its own weight. Instead of doing the same minor adjustments that don't really change anything and add a few new rules they've actuallyed decided to start from the beginning.

I think the 'its not the old world' thing is missing the point, since the point is exactly that it isn't the old world. The franchise looks like its entering a new brilliant world, freed from the classic warhammer (which you can still play btw) rules set of square bases and square units into what could potentially (pending rules) be a fantastic open tabletop battle system with all the best bits of warhammer with none of the sink holes.

but hey, if you want to go on crying about how something that was close to losing most of its fanbase and revenue got trashed then go ahead. I for one am pre-ordering the feth out of that boxset.

-Hawke

Well, First off: You are really rude.

I think I (as well as some others) said very clearly what they do not like and why that is so. Thats not whining or crying about things. Thats being critical.
It would be crying if we would not give any reasons beyond: But I dont like them! Which we do not do.

One could think you are a very inconsiderate person if you simply dismiss thought out critisism as crying.

I think its very cool that you like the new models. As with everything, some people will like it, other will not. Could you be so kind to specify what you like? And why you like it?
I think I could like these models if I would have more context. That means fluff, other armies and more information about the Sigmarites faction in general. As of now I mostly dislike the fact that they seem to replace the existing empire. From which they are a huge step away.

You also imply and seem to know the reasons why old warhammer was/is unpopular. Can you give any empirical evidence to your claims? And could you please explain to me why the 8th edition design of the empire couldnt have been a strong base for a redesign?

Gork or Possibly Mork
27-06-2015, 13:58
See this is really hard for me to understand, I think they look ALOT more OTT than regular marines.

Their pads are sort of long and big but the height is more squished. They're relatively similar to regular fantasy chaos warriors. Marines have rounded but they have massive blocky square angular edges and have more length to their pads. It makes marines shoulder pads look like the predominant feature where as these don't stand out quite as much.

DivineVisitor
27-06-2015, 14:01
Empire are my current main army and i like the way they are just now. Im not going to say i'll not play the new game but if i am it won't be with the new models, if need be i'll be blu-tacking my current empire to circular bases and rocking up with 'counts as' all over the joint.

Greatswords = Two Handed Dudes
Swordsmen = Hammer and Shield Dudes
Demigriffons = Battlecat Dudes

Dunno what i'd use for the Winged Dudes, Birdmen of Catrazza Dogs of War perhaps.

Regardless however i will not be selling off armies or other such nonsense. If my models are relegated to display pieces so be it.

Philhelm
27-06-2015, 14:09
How can you compare these two pictures and not notice the huge leap in aesthetics.
How do you go from this (http://www.geocities.ws/lmstanduk/Warhammerpreviewpictures/Empireplastics.gif) to this (https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11018319_1625092687728627_5807353136143216109_n.jp g?oh=77f962aec399ce51e115a725d3591d38&oe=55E8F6BE)? How is this ok in any way? Only by twisting around facts to make it seem like there was an all-important necessity to keep warhammer around as merely a PRODUCT and the only way of achieving this was to sell it out by 40fying it and warmhordesing it beyond recognition.

I was horrified as well, especially as an Empire player. However, to be fair, it may not be appropriate to compare the Empire to the Sigmarites. I'm of the opinion that there will be a normal human faction as well. It seems to me that the Sigmarites are some sort of "celestial" army, which may account for their over the top aesthetic. Or at least I hope this is the case.

Granted, it's horrifying enough that the Empire (and Bretonnia, for that matter) are most likely toast. I'm still curious to see what the normal human army will look like (if there is one).

EmperorNorton
27-06-2015, 14:12
Mostly negative.
Not because I think the models are bad per se - for what I expect to be plastic snap-fits they are fairly impressive.
I just don't like the style at all, which does not come unexpectedly, considering I did not like the End Times releases at all, either.
This has nothing to do with the game I started playing many years ago. Hard pass.

Groza
27-06-2015, 14:19
I was horrified as well, especially as an Empire player. However, to be fair, it may not be appropriate to compare the Empire to the Sigmarites. I'm of the opinion that there will be a normal human faction as well. It seems to me that the Sigmarites are some sort of "celestial" army, which may account for their over the top aesthetic. Or at least I hope this is the case.

Granted, it's horrifying enough that the Empire (and Bretonnia, for that matter) are most likely toast. I'm still curious to see what the normal human army will look like (if there is one).
I wasn't talking about a leap in aesthetics found necessarily inside a specific range, but for the game overall. I could have used a VC or Dwarfs picture and nothing would have changed.
It's about warhammer, not just the identity of empire as an army.
However!
As many have very accurately pointed out, one need only combine the aesthetic of those new models and the snippets of fluff we have seen to understand that there is no room for state troops in Age of Sigmar, regardless of whether or not sigmarines will actually replace the empire.

Shards of Basalt
27-06-2015, 14:28
I'm laughing my ass off at the Battlecat and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Groza
27-06-2015, 14:28
It's good that you're entertained at least :D

Philhelm
27-06-2015, 14:29
I wasn't talking about a leap in aesthetics found necessarily inside a specific range, but for the game overall. I could have used a VC or Dwarfs picture and nothing would have changed.
It's about warhammer, not just the identity of empire as an army.
However!
As many have very accurately pointed out, one need only combine the aesthetic of those new models and the snippets of fluff we have seen to understand that there is no room for state troops in Age of Sigmar, regardless of whether or not sigmarines will actually replace the empire.

I'm hoping that the over the top aesthetic of the Sigmarites is simply because they are an otherworldly force (assuming they are). I recall reading about the Mortal Realms and enslaved people, so I would hope that would open up the appearance of a normal human army.

But yeah, I'm sure the overall aesthetic is going to move toward a direction that neither of us will like. I loved the semi-realistic look of the Empire, and will certainly miss the Old World. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pleased at all, but I hope at least the look of the Sigmarites isn't necessarily indicative of the overall, upcoming range of models. The Chaos force isn't so drastically different in overall aesthetic, but I was already expecting that since Chaos is one of GW's babies.

I would like to give Age of Sigmar a chance, but so far the upcoming release fills me with trepidation.

ik0ner
27-06-2015, 14:29
Their pads are sort of long and big but the height is more squished. They're relatively similar to regular fantasy chaos warriors. Marines have rounded but they have massive blocky square angular edges and have more length to their pads. It makes marines shoulder pads look like the predominant feature where as these don't stand out quite as much.

Oh you meant only the shoulderpads. I'm sorry, thought you meant the entire model. :)

NagashLover
27-06-2015, 14:49
Mostly positive. At first I didn't like the new Flash Gordon/Warcraft look of the humans. A little later and giving it more attention they also have a flair of Angels ala Bayonetta motif, and the lizard dragon which so many people kept mistaking for a cat is rather solid. Really, I found Chaos underwhelming, considering how much change was supposed to be happening from all the rumors. I found them oddly enough generic, uninspired and "oh...it's what I've seen many times before in over a 20+ year period of playing". The monster probably being the only exception.

Based strictly on models and knowing for the most part I like the models...I still have no plans on getting into AoS. I need to know the full rules and the whole picture fluff and faction wise as well. My largest issue is...they did a number for the human faction, but they didn't really do anything for Chaos (other than making them just as 40K as the "sigmarines"), so which way are the other factions/armies going towards?

Curious.

Gork or Possibly Mork
27-06-2015, 14:56
Oh you meant only the shoulderpads. I'm sorry, thought you meant the entire model. :)

I don't think the overall models are more OTT than marines. IMO Marines look stupid and blocky to me which makes them look way more OTT but that's the style of 40K stuff and why i don't like it because it's OTT angular & chunky. I do however agree with the sentiment of the naysayers that they are quite radical and sort of out of place for what's expected in fantasy but only if you were expecting them to be more human like and less demi-god like. To me they basically look like good chosen chaos with a sort of bulkier but Slaanesh like sleekness of curved lines and with the new setting and concept of demi-god like humans reborn i don't think they'll be out of place much unless you only compare directly to old empire. Even the recent Chaos stuff like the hellstriders, warshrine & chariot etc. have a very different aesthetic than the old chaos warriors and marauders. The new dwarf stuff/Elf stuff all look quite different from the old aesthetic as well.

Liber
27-06-2015, 14:59
Mostly positive.

The Chaos stuff looks great, I think better pictures will reveal it to be the most true-to artwork style Chaos GW has ever done.

The Sigmarites...Have potential. I think with better pictures, and a non blue/gold (gross! imo) paint job will reveal them to be cool minis, but I can't be sure for now.

Vazalaar
27-06-2015, 15:17
Mostly positive.

I like the Chaos stuff. The Sigmarites are not what I expected or hoped for, BUT I do like it.

Treadhead_1st
27-06-2015, 15:18
Mostly positive.

I really like the mounted leader, two-handed troops and "angelic" troops (bar one of the leg poses). I am not too sure about the hammer-and-shield guys, they feel too plain for that colour-scheme if you get what I mean, and that banner bearer at the back - either he's a cyclops or has a warpstone eye.

Chaos is a bit too blurry to make out - the leader and the heavily-armoured dudes really remind me of Harry the Hammer, which is cool, and that monster looks interesting (does it have a helmet made of skulls?). The Marauder-like guys I would need to see in more detail - GW have a horrible habit of straight-edged digitally sculpted muscles that I really dislike and some of the poses in the picture really don't do it for me.

What the rules are like will probably be one of the main deciders for me. If it is too similar to Warmachine then I will just play Warmachine. However, the new styles here are making me really excited to see what happens model-wise with Elves and Lizardmen, should they survive the transition.

Silent Surrender
27-06-2015, 15:33
Either the design team are a bunch of stupid anime fans, or they try to cater to a bunch of stupid anime fans. Overwhelmingly negative.

The Knights with wings are so dumb and bad my head aches. What the holy hell where they thinking? Children today has too much suspense of disbelief, they need Everything to be over the top to even remotely satisfy them. Or again, is this the view of the design team maybe?

These models just reek anime, and its disghusting.

Why try to be something else when you have an established image? I tell you all these shareholders, their greed disghusts me. They destroyed the video game industry, and now they destroy this. Curse them they are offal.

Why do you want change? Why do you want to change things? Its the samer story all over again as it was with donkey kong country returns. New disghusting people entering the market who dont have the gut and balls to make their own thing. They are parasites who live of established IPs and they should be shot, quartered and raised on poles for everyone to see.

If you are going to have the same name as an age old IP then you better damn well keep with its image, otherwise just create something new and stop riding the Waves of others.

Curse you shareholders, curse you, you truely disghust me and i sincerely hope the things you hold dear rots away between your fingers as you make thing other hold dear rot.

This is what I would say if I removed my inhibition.

Vazalaar
27-06-2015, 15:36
Either the design team are a bunch of stupid anime fans, or they try to cater to a bunch of stupid anime fans. Overwhelmingly negative.

The Knights with wings are so dumb and bad my head aches. What the holy hell where they thinking? Children today has too much suspense of disbelief, they need Everything to be over the top to even remotely satisfy them. Or again, is this the view of the design team maybe?

These models just reek anime, and its disghusting.

Why try to be something else when you have an established image? I tell you all these shareholders, their greed disghusts me. They destroyed the video game industry, and now they destroy this. Curse them they are offal.

Why do you want change? Why do you want to change things? Its the samer story all over again as it was with donkey kong country returns. New disghusting people entering the market who dont have the gut and balls to make their own thing. They are parasites who live of established IPs and they should be shot, quartered and raised on poles for everyone to see.

If you are going to have the same name as an age old IP then you better damn well keep with its image, otherwise just create something new and stop riding the Waves of others.

Curse you shareholders, curse you, you truely disghust me and i sincerely hope the things you hold dear rots away between your fingers as you make thing other hold dear rot.

This is what I would say if I removed my inhibition.

How much did you spend on GW the last couple of years?

Avian
27-06-2015, 15:48
Hey Avian i'm curious what did you think about the new models?
I think they're okay.

Don't get me wrong, if I played Empire I'd be rather annoyed as these guys are clearly their successors and not part of the same army, but I like the overall style of the minis. I do think they're being lazy with the Sigmarites, though, and they would have looked better if they weren't essentially all wearing the same armour and carrying the same weapon. And blue + gold + lightning = Cygnar to me, it just is. :p

The Chaos guys also look better than I feared after seeing the Wrathmongers set earlier this year. I'll withhold final judgement until I see better pics, but they don't appear to have the same oversized legs that have plagued the more recent Khorne releases. Too bad my Chaos army is Tzeentch/Slaanesh.

So I think it's decent. I'm not going to rush out and get it anytime soon, but I might pick it up once I run out of stuff to add to my Circle army, providing the price is reasonable.

Poncho160
27-06-2015, 15:50
Mostly positive for me :)

The Sigmar dudes are really excellent mini IMO. They may not please everyones image of GW Warhammer miniatures but it is hard to argue that they are bad sculpts.

The Chaos guys also look good.

Looking forward to seeing how this game actually plays.

Kahadras
27-06-2015, 15:52
Not really sure at the moment as I would prefer more detailed pictures before making up my mind. My first though was that the Sigmarite stuff doesn't look that good. I like the commander but I'm not sure about what he's riding. I feel a lot of the other stuff has been ripped out of the Blood Angels 40K army (just with more hammers). The basic infantry looks OK and the great hammer wielding guys look alright (if a bit static). The flying models look like they could be a liability though (breaking, being easily knocked over etc). I would have prefered them to look like they were about to take flight (feet still on the ground).

The Chaos stuff looks OK. The marauders look a bit silly (how many steroids have they taken) but from what I can make out the Chaos Warriors look pretty good. The rest of the stuff is a bit too blurry to make a decision on (I don't like the banner though). So I went for slightly negative on my vote. I can't make out everything on the pictures. From what I can make out there's very little that's bowled me over and got me enthused about AoS. On the other hand the Empire and Chaos aren't really the armies that I'm interested in. Once the Elf and Undead stuff starts comming out I'll have a much better idea about what I think of the games minatures.

From the look of the Sigmarite stuff it feels that GW might be edging away from the grimdark Warhammer setting and moving towards a high fantasy idea which I'm not really sure about. One of the big selling points about Warhammer was the fact that humans lived in a dark, scary world with all manner of dangerous things lurking beyond the walls of their towns and cities. I'm hoping that GW keep this rather than push the Sigmarines, defends of humanity, Sigmar protects, and they shall know no fear, etc etc. I've no interest in Warhammer marines.

major soma
27-06-2015, 16:09
Sigmarites look too much like Spacemarines for my liking I'd probably use them as Blood Angels, the Chaos looks like a mix of current range with a few tweaks not so bad really. The round bases and weird base size just puts me right off. Of course this is the starter boxed set minis so we may have more to come but it feels like they are copying the competition now. I love fantasy and 40k I'm just not happy with the sameness now. I'll probably stick to 8th edition.

Laniston
27-06-2015, 16:16
Really disappointed. 40k is already oversaturated(yes scientifically you can't over saturate...but GW is special) with Space Marines. Fantasy was a haven to get away from that obsession and now it's encroached into that territory too. Surprise surprise, they don't fit, but who cares? It's space marines in fantasy! Huuwar! Astounding innovation!

Like, I am looking at those pictures thinking, "GW destroyed the fantasy world, created very insulting fluff surrounding the armies I've played and loved for years before destroying them, just so they could stick space marines into the fantasy setting." Suffice it to say I won't be purchasing this. On the other hand if I did like them the starter box will probably be $200 so I wouldn't buy it anyway.

Risegreymon
27-06-2015, 16:16
Overwhelmingly negative. Give me my steampunk, pantalooned, multi-stached Imperials over these Blood Angel clones any day.

GW should really call Xibit to help market this turkey:

'Yo dawg, we heard you like Space Muhreenz, so we put Space Muhreenz in your Fantasy game so you can Space Muhreen while you Space Muhreen.'

Voss
27-06-2015, 16:16
Mostly positive.

But then, WFB has been mostly dead to me since 2009 [no games to be found in the post- Daemon/VC/DE world of 7th edition], and this new stuff really fits right in with the products they producing for years. The litany of complaints about how toylike the Ogre Kingdoms big beasts were, the dwarf gyrocopter (which I hated too), the Chaos war altar, the Wood!Avatar of Khaine Treeman and on and on. They've been actively abandoning the old style all through 8th edition, and given the failures of the game, I can't see that as a bad thing.

I'll be interested to see the full rules, and it will be really interesting to see the release model. But overall it is good to see GW trying to take an active step for once, and not just passively try the same thing again, which wasn't working.


edging away from the grimdark Warhammer setting
The entire world [Realm] is enslaved by Chaos. Its sounding much more grimdark by default. More high fantasy, too, but those aren't opposing traits- they describe different aspects of the setting

Coldhatred
27-06-2015, 16:19
I'm utterly mortified that in my madness I predicted this. Looks like it's off to Mantic most likely.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?377872-Bringing-Warhammer-Fantasy-Back

Philhelm
27-06-2015, 16:52
I'm utterly mortified that in my madness I predicted this. Looks like it's off to Mantic most likely.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?377872-Bringing-Warhammer-Fantasy-Back

Damn...

Maybe someone at GW read and implemented your post...lol

ihavetoomuchminis
27-06-2015, 17:04
Mostly positive.

But then, WFB has been mostly dead to me since 2009 [no games to be found in the post- Daemon/VC/DE world of 7th edition], and this new stuff really fits right in with the products they producing for years. The litany of complaints about how toylike the Ogre Kingdoms big beasts were, the dwarf gyrocopter (which I hated too), the Chaos war altar, the Wood!Avatar of Khaine Treeman and on and on. They've been actively abandoning the old style all through 8th edition, and given the failures of the game, I can't see that as a bad thing.


So they have been abandoning the old style, and warhammer was more dead every year.

Yep. Completely abandoning the old style seems the right thing to do. Yep.

Where you see consequences i see causes.

Said that, i'm sure aesthetics and fluff weren't the main problems of WHFB. Rules promoting expensive (moneywise) units with several expensive models, wich could be killed first turn by a spell or some random bad luck, and terrible balance (both internal and external) wich made 3/4 of a book's units useless, on the other side....

You say kudos to them for trying something new, but i can't see how blatantly copying 40k is something new, considering how 40k isnt growing neither.

Col. Tartleton
27-06-2015, 17:17
If they had gone for twenty halberdiers in Knights of the Blazing Sun style with lots of character and flashy puffs I think the elite infantry looking like space marines would bother me less. Then I'd feel like "Here are my 20 Sigmar Halberdiers vs 20 Khorne Marauders and they both have 5 of their respective divine knights and hellish warriors. The Sigmarites have a General on a Demi Drake and a Banner Bearer that looks like a Chaplain and the Khornates have a Spawn and a Chaos Lord. Everything is in order."

It's all cool. I just hope we still have the Baroque/Gothic Imperial vibe from the lesser humans which I presume still exist. I like the addition of the paladins. We already had Grail Knights. Just don't take away our wine sodden syphilis ridden men at arms and our whore chasing loot grubbing free companies. Otherwise how am I supposed to identify with my toy soldiers?

mattl
27-06-2015, 17:19
I like it. I'll pick it up. I can actually see me playing AoS, Oldhammer and Kings of War for different kinds of games. This looks like it will let me put a few of my classic metal Dwarfs on the table and play some small games.

Voss
27-06-2015, 17:23
So they have been abandoning the old style, and warhammer was more dead every year.

Yep. Completely abandoning the old style seems the right thing to do. Yep.

Where you see consequences i see causes.
Not more dead. It was completely dead at the end of 7th, and in my experience, didn't come back. The style change didn't cost them much of anything in terms of customers (a few statistical outliers here or there, but so what). Rules and cost killed it dead. It just continued shambling on, regardless of the stylistic change. My point is more that anyone shocked by the style change really shouldn't be, because GW has been slapping them in the face with that change in direction every release for the last 5 years. You know, the changes people have been screaming about 'toys,' 'playmobil,' 'dinobots,' etc, etc, ad nauseum.



Said that, i'm sure aesthetics and fluff weren't the main problems of WHFB. Rules promoting expensive (moneywise) units with several expensive models, wich could be killed first turn by a spell or some random bad luck, and terrible balance (both internal and external) wich made 3/4 of a book's units useless, on the other side....

You say kudos to them for trying something new, but i can't see how blatantly copying 40k is something new, considering how 40k isnt growing neither.
I agree, rules and cost were a problem. But we don't actually know either of those yet. Picking up the 40k style for model designs doesn't mean 40k style rules (which I honestly hope not, as 7th 40k is a worthless piece of trash I never bought or played.

bound for glory
27-06-2015, 17:27
very negitive. while i hav'nt played WH scinse the late 1980's, i had thought of starting again with my son. i was just waiting to see what the new edition bought us.
this is NOT warhammer. i'll pass, or by 8th ed.

bound for glory
27-06-2015, 17:32
If they had gone for twenty halberdiers in Knights of the Blazing Sun style with lots of character and flashy puffs I think the elite infantry looking like space marines would bother me less. Then I'd feel like "Here are my 20 Sigmar Halberdiers vs 20 Khorne Marauders and they both have 5 of their respective divine knights and hellish warriors. The Sigmarites have a General on a Demi Drake and a Banner Bearer that looks like a Chaplain and the Khornates have a Spawn and a Chaos Lord. Everything is in order."

It's all cool. I just hope we still have the Baroque/Gothic Imperial vibe from the lesser humans which I presume still exist. I like the addition of the paladins. We already had Grail Knights. Just don't take away our wine sodden syphilis ridden men at arms and our whore chasing loot grubbing free companies. Otherwise how am I supposed to identify with my toy soldiers?

this guy is in it for the lulz!

LordFulgrim
27-06-2015, 17:36
Slightly negative. This is not WHF anymore. In terms of fluff I would have rather they killed off everything than let it evolve into this.

Chaos looks cool, same aesthetic really but like many others I feel the Sigmarines are a kick in the nuts. I find it somewhat hilarious that everybody talks about GW wanting models that can be IP protected YET they come up with these Mantic-clones?! This high-fantasy look is done too much already.
I'm a great fan of the pseudo-historical Old World as that is something you do not see often. WHF had grown into a rich and unique setting.

So why slightly negative? I can see the appeal of the models though I'd never want them myself. GW went the lazy route and caters to what is popular these days. High-fantasy, anime-style miniatures. Not for me alas.

Lord Cedric
27-06-2015, 17:37
Mixed.

At first I really disliked the Sigmarites. The angelic look didn't bother me as much as how over the medieval top and space shuttled leap towards 40k they look. Those shoulder pads in combination with the round bases just screams 20k to me. The Khorn models look good to me... other than the bases.

As models..... they all look progressively good to me. I can see so many kit bash opportunities and various other games that they could be used for as well.

However. .... in honest I think i set myself up to dislike them months before I had any indication of what they looked like. My negative thoughts on round bases in Fantasy mixed with my beloved lore and background from all 15 Warhammer Fantasy armies that I play and collect blowing up into oblivion because of over a decade of bad business decisions and non advertising and marketing for my hobby love by GW gave myself a preset negative mind.

The more I look at it... and no matter it's unstoppable forward motion (save scrapping Fantasy altogether).... i STILL have an interest and an excitement building. Maybe because with concrete pics, reality is setting in and leading my mind to the new Warhammer Fantasy. Maybe it's because I actually DO like these models and whether or not I feel they fit with what Lore Aesthetics I think they should associate with.

So. I'm mixed. A bit of a heart break from finally seeing my baby girl grow up, after years of teaching, caring and growing with her, to finally allowing her to go in her own directions. At least this way I can still be a part of her life and being a part of those changes as opposed to only holding on to pictures and past memories of her youth.

- Lord Cedric

Ayin
27-06-2015, 17:49
I'm sure the 40k converters will love that box, but that's not the historically based* ranked up game I want. No need to say "I quit" since I haven't played a game or bought anything from GW for three years, so I'm already an ex customer, but still...

*yeah, I know. Within reason.


It's funny, because I don't have any right to say "I quit" Warhammer: Fantasy, when in reality, Fantasy has "quit" me.

ihavetoomuchminis
27-06-2015, 17:52
Not more dead. It was completely dead at the end of 7th, and in my experience, didn't come back. The style change didn't cost them much of anything in terms of customers (a few statistical outliers here or there, but so what). Rules and cost killed it dead. It just continued shambling on, regardless of the stylistic change. My point is more that anyone shocked by the style change really shouldn't be, because GW has been slapping them in the face with that change in direction every release for the last 5 years. You know, the changes people have been screaming about 'toys,' 'playmobil,' 'dinobots,' etc, etc, ad nauseum.



I agree, rules and cost were a problem. But we don't actually know either of those yet. Picking up the 40k style for model designs doesn't mean 40k style rules (which I honestly hope not, as 7th 40k is a worthless piece of trash I never bought or played.

Then we mostly agree. Glad to know that.

Justicar_Freezer
27-06-2015, 18:36
Slightly Positive here. I have to say I like the new Sirmarites in that they are a representation of something I always felt was missing from fantasy. A heavily armored and elite human faction which could stand up to chaos. The general on the battle drake/cat looks pretty impressive, the two handed guys and the hammer and shield guys also look pretty good. The flying guys and that standard bearer though are a bit of a let down even if there is room for the flying guys to grow on me.

As for Chaos they look pretty much as I'd expect Chaos to look. The new tribesmen or Marauders look decent and the big guys look Chaos-y. They really look like they could fit into either the current fantasy line or the 40k line up.

Really both armies look like they could easily fit into the 40k line and I think that is the one thing that keeps this from being mostly or overwhelmingly positive for me. I'll pick the set up though if there's room in my gaming budget for it. After sitting out 8th edition it will be nice to see what the new edition will bring.

roperpg
27-06-2015, 18:41
I reckon there's more on the way, of a more 'standard' human style. Why?
Because the fluff text for the box indicates this is an initial invasion by Sigmar to stake a claim in the mortal realms. The Chaos guys were there already, Sigmar's sending in his elites, which would also explain why the sigmarites are outnumbered. These guys are sigmarite Chaos warriors/shock troops. Think warrior-priests mixed with greatswords.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

CrystalSphere
27-06-2015, 19:41
I don´t like space marines in 40k but i put up with their existence, these sigmarines are nothing attractive to me - GW destroyed the old empire background to bring this stuff? Sorry, not interested. The chaos forces are actually decent and in line with the aesthetic that chaos warriors had in the old setting, so i like the miniatures for what they are, even if i am not a big fan of chaos so i woul not get them anyhow.

Why should i play this game with wannabe space marines vs chaos instead of just playing 40k with the real marines? With gameplay becoming similar (psychics in 40k, round basees, loose formations, etc.) i see them competing with each other, and things do not look up for the new fantasy.

Lord Dan
27-06-2015, 20:04
I hope no one takes this personally, but anyone remotely approving of any of the design changes shown is a terrible person and is now dead to me.

:p

Groza
27-06-2015, 20:08
I hope no one takes this personally
That's an extremely convenient way of going about this :D

Praetor_Dragoon
27-06-2015, 20:10
I hope no one takes this personally, but anyone remotely approving of any of the design changes shown is a terrible person and is now dead to me.

:p

Lucky that I am an Undead fan, so I was dead to start with. (the healthcare is great, you see)

Humanoid
27-06-2015, 20:21
OK, just looking at the pictures, here is my reaction ...

I will not buy the Age of Sigmar.

As I look at the pictures, I believe that the infantry are on 32mm round bases rather than 25mm round bases. One possibility of a mechanism in the game was for the infantry to change from open/closed or ranked formation when in unit sizes of greater than eight to skirmish or loose formation when in unit sizes of eight or less. A skirmish formation would provide a greater mobility to avoid or attack the enemy, or to join together with a compatible friendly unit. Thus, with a one-standard size of a 25mm square for ranked formation on a movement tray, infantry figurines on bases of 20mm square, 25mm square, and 25mm round could change their formation on the battlefield. Plus, my elves are on 20mm square bases with magnets, and I am not new-basing nor ditching those. If there were "bumpers" to convert a 20mm square base to a 25mm 4-pointed round base, then I would be interested in those. The reason for the "bumpers" is to provide a greater stability to the figurine when in skirmish formation.

As I look at the position of the feet for the infantry on the 32mm round bases, it appears to me that the infantry could fit on 25mm round bases, but probably would not rank up on a movement tray with 25mm squares because of the sprawl of the rest of the figurine. I would be interested in the result of such a physical test of the sprawl on a movement tray with 25mm squares.

In old Warhammer terminology, I could see myself getting one shield and hammer sigmarine and one bare-chested barbarian for use as a Lord or Hero, but nothing more. It's not that I dislike the miniatures in Age of Sigmar, but the bumpkin is the army baseline in my eyes for fantasy, and not gladiators.

For your poll categories, I selected "mostly negative".

Inquisitor Kallus
27-06-2015, 20:24
That mount looks like its straight out of Ghostbusters!

MmmmhmmmmWIKKEDCOOL!!



216006

Inquisitor Kallus
27-06-2015, 20:43
They are parasites who live of established IPs and they should be shot, quartered and raised on poles for everyone to see.



Ba ha haa! This is the funniest thing ive read all week.

I think the models look really well done. Hopefully the rules will be great

Bloodknight
27-06-2015, 21:16
Strongly disappointed. The Sigmarines look like stuff that could come 1:1 from the massively flopped He-Man reboot that Mattel tried in the 90s. I also hate their tiny heads, just imagine those guys without their helmets.
One person on a German forum called them propaganda kids' toys endorsed by the Catholic church, and I wish I could disagree.

Sadly the leaked cover of that box (the image is not in this thread, I believe) is so incredibly cheesy that I cannot touch this. I grew out of that stuff in 1992.

Sureshot05
27-06-2015, 21:41
Well, its clearly a new game. Sigmarines have no appeal to me and its looking less and less like the Warhammer I loved. I can honestly say that its a non purchase for me as it stands and clearly means an end to collecting Warhammer via GW as this isn't fantasy battles to me. I liked the elements of classic fantasy and Warhammer gave me a chance to play that on the table top. This really doesn't look good to me.

H3L!X
27-06-2015, 21:56
I don't play fantasy but i really love those winged dudes...well actually i just love the wings. I really hope that Eldar Swooping Hawks will get wings in this style. They just fit perfectly for them. The current wings are just to small.

Grimstonefire
27-06-2015, 21:59
I think you'd have very different poll results if you split the sigmarite and chaos out.

Marauder Carl
27-06-2015, 21:59
Sigh. If it wasn't for the sales of boxes to 40k players looking for conversion material, this box would be finding a home in a shallow grave much like those Atari E.T. cartridges they finally found (http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/27/tech/gaming-gadgets/atari-et-video-game/).

Blkc57
27-06-2015, 22:11
Interesting that almost 58% have responded negatively to these changes with a majority being in the strong to overwhelmingly negative categories. I wonder if GW did any focus group testing of their customers while they thought about Age of Sigmar? Seems even this very informal poll is kind of telling.

Bloodknight
27-06-2015, 22:12
I would like to see this poll split into "You've already been a WHF player, what's your reaction" and "You've never collected WHF before, what's your reaction".

mbh1127
27-06-2015, 22:29
This would be more interesting if this was a new game from mantic or avatars of war. Me thinks the results would be much different.

Groza
27-06-2015, 22:47
This would be more interesting if this was a new game from mantic or avatars of war. Me thinks the results would be much different.
Because none of us who actually like WHFB would have any reason to vote against it, just like we don't have any reason to be mad that malifaux or warmahordes exist.

mbh1127
27-06-2015, 22:51
I honestly don't know.


That could be possible or an even greater level of negativity. Sometimes I think GW could take a dump into a box and a portion of the customer base would still be thrilled.

But there's also strong anti-GW sentiment in others.

Kahadras
27-06-2015, 23:06
The entire world [Realm] is enslaved by Chaos. Its sounding much more grimdark by default.

Apart from the fact that human now have Sigmarines to defend them. Obviously I havn't read the 'fluff' for the new setting so it could even more 'grimdark' than Warhammer but the fact that there are now 'hammer wielding angels of Sigmar' flying around makes me wonder about what type of background GW is cooking up. Possibly something 40K-esque where the Imperium is doomed but Space Mareens are so awesum that it will never happen.

notts
27-06-2015, 23:29
Interesting that almost 58% have responded negatively to these changes with a majority being in the strong to overwhelmingly negative categories. I wonder if GW did any focus group testing of their customers while they thought about Age of Sigmar? Seems even this very informal poll is kind of telling.
somewhat irrelevant. Fantasy wasn'tmaking them money, so had to change.

WarsmithGarathor94
27-06-2015, 23:30
Even though i play both fantasy and 40k my reaction is
Please let their be rules for playibg vs 40k armies so that i can blast these new sigmahreens off the boatd

R Man
27-06-2015, 23:44
somewhat irrelevant. Fantasy wasn'tmaking them money, so had to change.

1st of all, can you actually prove that? It has been said a lot, but no one seems to have the proof. I was always under the impression that Fantasy was making money, just not 40k money.

2nd of all, if you have to change it, why chose the dumbest way to go about it? If players play Fantasy, its probably because they like mass battle games. If they wanted a skirmish game, they would already be playing one of the many that already exist. This move risks alienating the fanbase, to step into a much more competitive market. With so many other ways that GW could have shaken Fantasy up, why did they chose this one?

As for the models, well I did not like the Sigmarites at first, though I think that this has more to do with the paint job. Gold can be confronting to the eyes. After seeing them in silver they look much better. That said, I still have my criticisms. The helmets are awkward, or perhaps, orkward. The armour looks too.....much and so on.

The actual game stuff (round bases) well... see part 2 above. I liked mass armies. That's what I want to play. Besides, there is a very good chance my army does not exist anymore, so I could not even play this game even if I wanted to without starting a new army. Mostly negative.

Col. Tartleton
27-06-2015, 23:52
Square bases are still being shown. Just not in that picture.

Cèsar de Quart
27-06-2015, 23:52
If I was a Blood Angel Marine player, I'd be delighted to see so many new conversion options.

As an Empire player, I think this Sigmar army sucks. It looks so much like what other fantasy games companies are offering that I won't even bother. Everything looks oversized, uber-cool, more-hammers-in-my-salad-please. The Space Marine look is very out of place. I can't even use them for conversions because they're the size of a Chaos warrior.

Might be whining, but I never intended to play Age of Sigmar. If they're locking down the new models in this high-fantasy generic style, by all means, but that also means closing your market to veteran collector players.

Now all I'll have left is eBay and bits websites, and that means very little money to GW.

I'm aware they're trying to get back some of the share they lost to Infinity, Warmachines and Hordes and the rest, but making a miniature range that's the same style as the other guys doesn't strike to me as a good idea.

Anyway, I may be too old for this crap.

notts
27-06-2015, 23:53
1st of all, can you actually prove that? It has been said a lot, but no one seems to have the proof. I was always under the impression that Fantasy was making money, just not 40k money.

2nd of all, if you have to change it, why chose the dumbest way to go about it? If players play Fantasy, its probably because they like mass battle games. If they wanted a skirmish game, they would already be playing one of the many that already exist. This move risks alienating the fanbase, to step into a much more competitive market. With so many other ways that GW could have shaken Fantasy up, why did they chose this one?

As for the models, well I did not like the Sigmarites at first, though I think that this has more to do with the paint job. Gold can be confronting to the eyes. After seeing them in silver they look much better. That said, I still have my criticisms. The helmets are awkward, or perhaps, orkward. The armour looks too.....much and so on.

The actual game stuff (round bases) well... see part 2 above. I liked mass armies. That's what I want to play. Besides, there is a very good chance my army does not exist anymore, so I could not even play this game even if I wanted to without starting a new army. Mostly negative.


Don't get me wrong, i absolutely hate the models. I hope there is mass battle stuff coming as rumoured as I have 0 interest in a dumbed down skirmish gamefocusing on leaders.

BUT 1) GW make hardly any money. GW have been financially blasted recently.

2)why blow up the setting if it sells?

read between the lines: WHFB was obviously dying.

And also remember, no one is more invested in GW than GW employees. It's not like they are deliberately going out of their way to annoy people. They're just rolling the dice.

Col. Tartleton
27-06-2015, 23:55
Has anyone considered the possibility this is to replace Lord of the Rings not Warhammer?

:p

Okay now I sound like I'm in denial.

Kahadras
28-06-2015, 00:09
2)why blow up the setting if it sells?

read between the lines: WHFB was obviously dying.


The worry is though that GW are torpedoing WHFB and bringing in WHFB 40K, while, in the process, alienating the majority of the players who played Warhammer. So you now have a new system which is competing with all of the other Fantasy skirmish games out there with almost zero traction. The GW stamp on the box is all it's got going for it at the moment. Best case senario is that it tempts people away from stuff like Warmachine and persuades the Warhammer crowd to reinvest but this is all pie in the sky at the moment. It will need a seriously good set of rules and really good support in order to stand a chance of achieving this and to be frank I don't think GW is able to achieve that level of quality anymore. I'd love to be proved wrong and for AoS to eclipse Warmachine and bring to good times back for the fantasy side of GW (as it could lead to a new edition of Warhammer).

Cèsar de Quart
28-06-2015, 00:22
The worry is though that GW are torpedoing WHFB and bringing in WHFB 40K, while, in the process, alienating the majority of the players who played Warhammer. So you now have a new system which is competing with all of the other Fantasy skirmish games out there with almost zero traction. The GW stamp on the box is all it's got going for it at the moment. Best case senario is that it tempts people away from stuff like Warmachine and persuades the Warhammer crowd to reinvest but this is all pie in the sky at the moment. It will need a seriously good set of rules and really good support in order to stand a chance of achieving this and to be frank I don't think GW is able to achieve that level of quality anymore. I'd love to be proved wrong and for AoS to eclipse Warmachine and bring to good times back for the fantasy side of GW (as it could lead to a new edition of Warhammer).

Precisely. I just bought 150€ worth of Warhammer Fantasy stuff in the last months, because I fancied to finish my regiments and start some new ones.

Will I buy into the new setting if it's so radically different and doesn't add any diversity to my army, because Beastmen, Ogres and Dark Elves would fit better in my army than these Sigmarites.

I want this to be successful, so that may have the Empire Knights I've been expecting for the last 25 years. but I also fear that if this is successful, GW execs will take the hint and leave the old WHFB behind in order to focus on an AoS themed big game.

R Man
28-06-2015, 00:30
Don't get me wrong, i absolutely hate the models. I hope there is mass battle stuff coming as rumoured as I have 0 interest in a dumbed down skirmish gamefocusing on leaders.

BUT 1) GW make hardly any money. GW have been financially blasted recently.

Well true, but that is a GW wide problem. Even 40k has been suffering from declining sales recently, so it seems odd to blame Fantasy for it.


2)why blow up the setting if it sells?

read between the lines: WHFB was obviously dying.

And the solution to the problem was to remove the one thing that retained customer loyalty; the setting?


And also remember, no one is more invested in GW than GW employees. It's not like they are deliberately going out of their way to annoy people. They're just rolling the dice.

That does not stop it from being a dumb idea.

Khaines Wrath
28-06-2015, 00:32
Mostly Negative.

The Sigmarites are terribly disappointing, far too Sanguine Guard which I ironically love in 40k. Not a big fan of the space cat either and the strange ghoul faced standard bearer.

The Chaos army is only slightly better but Im so sick to death of Khorne, the most boring and mundane of all of the chaos gods in my opinion. My favourites Slaanesh and Tzeentch got completely screwed over in the End Times. Honestly in this great time of change for warhammer isn't it a missed opportunity that the God of Change himself isn't having any more influence in the Chaos forces.

This definitely could be the end of warhammer for me, I might pick up some if the army books to have a gander at the new fluff but if the models maintain this End Times look I have no interest.

Humanoid
28-06-2015, 00:38
I would like to see this poll split into "You've already been a WHF player, what's your reaction" and "You've never collected WHF before, what's your reaction".
Neither of your two statements include me. I have not played WFB, and only watched a couple of games, so I do not consider myself a WFB player. However, I have bought Island of Blood, traded the Skaven for more High Elves, bought Archers and Spearmen for High Elves, and the High Elves army book, thus, I have "collected" WFB. To understand what WFB is, I had to make the investment in time and money until I understood. Once I understood, I said no to 8th edition WFB, but I still want to play a fantasy game of humans, elves, dwarves and orcs.

The next poll question could be "Your reaction to the Age of Sigmar play rules?".


somewhat irrelevant. Fantasy wasn'tmaking them money, so had to change.
I am going to elaborate and say that GW had to change Warhammer to be a revenue success by GW's criteria. I have no idea what GW's criteria is. I have no idea if I am in the target demographic by GW, nor whether any of the poll respondents are. However, I am a GW customer who has been awaiting the product release of the new Warhammer, but has no plans to buy Age of Sigmar from what I have seen. I believe that there are many more new Warhammer products forthcoming, but my thinking is that if the first product of a basic game does not catch my interest, then that does not bode well for the remainder of the new Warhammer products.

HelloKitty
28-06-2015, 01:31
Slightly negative. I'm waiting on the rules before I pass full judgement.

The models I feel look nice, but I feel like they belong in 40k, not fantasy. Therein lies the problem for me. The potential loss of mass fantasy battles and another 40k/warmahordes whatever game.

However I fully understand the need to go that route... I just don't like it.

Voss
28-06-2015, 01:32
I believe that there are many more new Warhammer products forthcoming, but my thinking is that if the first product of a basic game does not catch my interest, then that does not bode well for the remainder of the new Warhammer products.

Hmm. Can't say I agree with this. The appeal of wargame army/factions is heavily dependent on appearance, playstyle and background. I would have never picked up any of GW's undead if they had been marketed as Vampire Counts (rather than the original Undead faction with necromancers and liches), nor did I ever really pick up an interest in dwarves, lizards or any particular interest in slightly different versions of elves. But the existence of those factions doesn't mean much for the game as a whole or the appeal of other factions. Army choice is so entirely dependent on personal preference that odds are actually very good that the starter sets are often irrelevant to individual players.

BirchbarktheAncient
28-06-2015, 02:24
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to 40 Fantasy. If this is what Warhammer is turning into, eBay prepare for an overload of armies at fire sale prices. If GW thinks that their 8th edition players are just going fall in line for this Warhammer Junior version of Fantasy, they are sorely mistaken. God, do I truly feel sorry for the guys who play at the tournament level. If this unimaginative junk is what fantasy is turning into, watch the real End Times that are about to come.

Ramius4
28-06-2015, 02:37
#notmywarhammer

I can't put it any better than my friend Dan has.

Kakapo42
28-06-2015, 03:05
I went with overwhelmingly negative. I never liked the ET style of Chaos, which the Chaos models seem to be going for (but then I never really liked the ET style of anything), so they're a wipe for me. The Sigmarines, well.... they kind of symbolise everything I don't like about the modern Tabletop hobby. I got into Warhammer Fantasy because I wanted that special blend of historical references and classic fantasy conventions that ultimately created something that really was distinct. There was a sort of magic to the Warhammer World, a certain charm it had that I'm just not getting from these models.

At the risk of sounding like an 80s action film character, this isn't what I signed on for.

But, in truth, I don't really feel anything about the imminent AoS release. I lamented and despaired as the 8th edition releases piled on and the early 2000s-era silver age GW Warhammer that I fell in love with slowly faded away. I railed against the Dwarf releases and the Wood Elf releases, and breathed a sigh of relief when none of the Bretonnian range was replaced. I even wrote a post about it on my ailing hobby blog, here (http://metalhobby.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/nothing-left.html), that probably explains why I'm feeling this way better than I am now. I was saddened by the loss of the Specialist Games, bitter about the 8th edition Dwarf re-release, angry at the 8th edition Wood Elf re-release
and horrified by the ET series. Now all I feel for this next chapter of Warhammer is emptiness.

But this just seems to be the way the wind is blowing these days. I don't really feel anything for the vast overwhelming majority of other manufacturers either. I like metal models. I like the styles of the early 2000s. I like IGOUGO. I like black and white artwork. I like metal playing in the hobby store. Maybe I just don't belong in the tabletop hobby any more.

In fairness I could see that battle standard in the Sigmarine bunch working well in Ecclesiarchal conversions for 40k, but then I'd be left with the rest of the model that I don't want, and I don't really want to encourage GW on this by spending money on it. Vote with your wallet and all, as they say.

Oh well. I switched off from the official rules when the 8th edition Wood Elf book happened. I switched off from the official background shortly afterwards when the ET series came. I've found a place where I can scavenge up old GW publications I missed the first time around at acceptable prices. I've got my own background that I'm still sticking with. I've accepted that I'm a part of the past-hammer movement now. I suppose there's nothing left now but to finish the Warhammer models I have and maybe publish some more silly backstory about them.

The Sigmarites are coming with their shiny models,
With crisp detail and paint-schemes of stars,
So hush now little one, don't be a whiner,
The man in the moon is the CAD designer

(P.S. I mean no offence to anyone with the use of the word 'whiner' in that last part, it was just the best fitting word I could think of that rhymed with 'designer'.)

Overtninja
28-06-2015, 04:08
I actually like the models for both factions myself, but i don't have any intention to play either one so it's neither here nor there for me.

I do like that the Sigmarites have a clear aesthetic that isn't a simple re-hash of generic renaissance European visual styles, and from a raw design standpoint their visual similarity in terms of overall silhouette with space marines is a good idea, as it draws clear parallel between GW's more successful IP and fantasy. It also represents a clear break from the old visual style of fantasy, which is also an intelligent move for GW in terms of working with an actual protectable IP. I'd be interested to see what GW puts out for the other factions at this point - WH probably won't look like WHF, which isn't really a bad thing itself, though I can certainly understand those lamenting the death of a long-standing persistent world populated with so many cultures and personalities (even if those cultures were largely cribbed from the real world).

It's a good start, I think, and will probably attract a good number of new players, and possibly get people who play 40k to give fantasy a go, especially with the lower model count.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Elves turn out; I hope I can still rock my Wood Elves in some manner, as I love the model range. I'll have to rebase them all, of course, but that's really not that much of a hardship, considering my model count was small to begin with!

Smooth Boy
28-06-2015, 04:17
I think they're hideous, just remind me of Diablo II + III. I do have a slither of hope though, it's being suggested that the good army are angels of Sigmar. This may suggest we will see a more conventional release for a human faction in the future, an equivalent to the Empire or Imperial Guard.

Freak Ona Leash
28-06-2015, 04:31
The Chaos looks pretty Chaosy, I like that. Not sure I'm a fan of the Sigmarites, they look too "high fantasy" to me. I liked the Renaissance/Steampunk aesthetic of the WHFB Empire, thought it was awesome. Perhaps the background will win me over, or a different color scheme: the bright gold and and dark blue doesn't appeal to me. I was kinda hoping for a more post-apocalyptic vibe: ragged, yet god-infused, remnants of mankind fighting Chaos by embracing some of its elements (giving over their humanity to the power of their godhead, dehumanizing them but rendering them more powerful). And perhaps that's part of what will be in the background, but ehhhh. I suppose they will make good bitz for my Space Marines at the very least.

Shas'El Tael
28-06-2015, 04:35
I feel like I just woke up and saw Legio Custodes charging into the End Times fray to save the day from Chaos warriors before the Old World blows up.

But, no.

Chaos models are a great addition for faction collectors, but the Sigmarines? I.. I'm, just.. well, they don't belong. Is this a shift into the ideal that just being a man in Warhammer is not enough, you have to be Superheroic to actually make a difference? I really hope the core units coming up are less jarring aesthetically.

I randomly read a notion of gating into battle by columns of light across multiple realms rumour sounds all too Thor and Asgardian. I trust this proves incorrect.

Might grab one of the sigmarines off eBay and convert up a Legio Custodes. I may not like them, but I'm a hobbyist, I'll convert them into what I want; but it isnt for WFB.

OT - Mostly negative, because the chaos stuff is actually quite good for those collectors.

scruffyryan
28-06-2015, 04:49
Overwhelmingly negative

I'll be encouraging the local FLGS' in my area to invest in other games and slowly disentangle from GW products and introducing new players to basically any other game.

Just Tony
28-06-2015, 04:52
Just confirming what all the rumors were leading towards, my lack of interest in directly following or endorsing GW.

eddyh59
28-06-2015, 05:31
Not interested in 40K and not interested in these.
I have been a regular tourney player for over 10 years but End Times and the newer army books squashed my interest in the game and this may well kill it.
Unless the full rule set are really good I won't be playing.

Avian
28-06-2015, 07:54
I think you'd have very different poll results if you split the sigmarite and chaos out.


I would like to see this poll split into "You've already been a WHF player, what's your reaction" and "You've never collected WHF before, what's your reaction".


This would be more interesting if this was a new game from mantic or avatars of war. Me thinks the results would be much different.

Firstly, just how many options do you think these polls allow you to add? :p

I can do one comparing the goddies and the baddies once we get better pics of both. When it comes to splitting between those who have bought FB previously and those who have not, there would almost certainly be very few people reading FB General that have not bought any FB stuff previously. I guess you could have a similar poll in 40K General just asking for replies from the 40K players, but honestly I can't be bothered to make one. When it comes to asking about Mantic or AoW games, I doubt you could get enough replies on this forum to draw a good conclusion. People don't really seem interested.

UnsafeNormal
28-06-2015, 07:57
Basically looking to finish up the two WHFB armies I have to 8ed then go to 40k because Fantasy is dead if this is the road they're taking it.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 08:45
Hmmm can you play mass battles in 40K?YES! Armagedon.... Will you be able to play mass battles in AOS?Most propably YES....

duffybear1988
28-06-2015, 09:45
Chaos = average.
Sigmar knights = terrible.
Look on GW suits faces when they realise this is a flop = priceless.

If you divide the current community in half, do no marketing to entice in new players, and are relying on 40k players to spend their limited money on this then you really are setting yourselves up to fail.

Ah well, it's not like we didn't see this coming. I'd love to see the excuse they come up with to explain another drop in sales...

Colonial Rifle
28-06-2015, 10:08
As a WHFB refugee from the disaster of WH40K 7th Ed, this release seems likely to,finally, get me to quit GW altogether. The chaos stuff is OK, but it's the usual over-designed style GW prefers now. The Sigmarines are knock-offs from any mass-market fantasy video game from the last decade - just desperate stuff.

Kings of war for my fantasy armies then.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 10:16
Sorry mate, no offence but i love your comments.....you are propably a veteran of WHF like myself i assume. You need to realise one thing and one thing only..."This game is not made for the old players!" Are full plate guys that look like angekls attractive to a young audience?YES!

We can go on and on and on for hous of me trying to explain every single thing about decision making, investment valuation etc. Its my rl specialty after all! You, me (well not really) and the rest of the dinos didnt spend enough money the last years on this game simply because we had our minis from the previous ones. We were just buying the book and the new kit maybe if it was viable and thats it. That doesnt generate money enough.....that generates cookies!

Now a new setting/new game where everyone wil make a FRESH start and be on the same level? A new game made for a younger audience? A game where new players will have to start their armies from scratch? A new game where i wont need 5 hours to play? (people in the financial services among others will understand the loooooong working hours)
You and me dont belong in this setting according to GWs plans. For sure i will try this new game since money was never the problem, time was.

Will i like the aesthetics of every army?Hell no! I didnt even like most of them during WHF. Will there be at least 1 that will attract my attention? 99% yes. Already did tbh.
As long as a get a new fresh start as everyone else and make this game sorter in length yet fun will decent looking minis, i ll spend my money and wont cry for all the thousand of dwarf and o&g points i have. The biggest problem that most people have is money. Not enough money to spend on expensive minis. And ofc i understand that. But thats another thread discussing the pricing policy etc.

My 8th ed army will still be here and so is the rulebook. I can always play that if i want to. But i will also try AOS.

Kingly
28-06-2015, 10:24
Looks great, very excited for the release. *Shut up and take my money*

Nightfall Shimmer
28-06-2015, 10:36
The people who keep saying "This isn't Warhammer! What is going on?" obviously didn't believe that GW squatted Warhammer 6 months ago...

Little Joe
28-06-2015, 10:46
It is warhammer, but 40k style to me. I never liked the look/background of space marines. Sigmarites look like ornate Space marines to me, simple as that. I don't want super sized pauldrons and I must add, that they to me indeed look more fitting for Warmachine or Chronopia than a remake/reboot of Warhammer Fantasy whatever the name might be.

That aside, all these miniatures seem too bulky to me. Worst case those are 25mm round bases, which makes all of it too large to fit with anything I have.

Vazalaar
28-06-2015, 10:57
Chaos = average.
Sigmar knights = terrible.
Look on GW suits faces when they realise this is a flop = priceless.

If you divide the current community in half, do no marketing to entice in new players, and are relying on 40k players to spend their limited money on this then you really are setting yourselves up to fail.

Ah well, it's not like we didn't see this coming. I'd love to see the excuse they come up with to explain another drop in sales...

I doubt that it will flop, atleast it will bring more more money in than Warhammer did the last couple of years. The question is of all those people that chosed a negative option how much did you spend on Warhammer the last couple of years? Ebay doesn't count...

Bishops finger
28-06-2015, 11:19
Chaos = average.
Sigmar knights = terrible.
Look on GW suits faces when they realise this is a flop = priceless.

If you divide the current community in half, do no marketing to entice in new players, and are relying on 40k players to spend their limited money on this then you really are setting yourselves up to fail.

Ah well, it's not like we didn't see this coming. I'd love to see the excuse they come up with to explain another drop in sales...

indeed:( And the sad thing is there seems like none left in gw to understand or care what the hobby was. Actually sure there is, but its not them, who are steering this titanic cluster@$£! I fear for the future of gw. My story is identical to colonel rifle in above post. I took up WHFB(again) to get away from the speed of release and mess that 40k has become..i spent 1000s ..EG, lovely leather 4th addition rule book,only for them to bring out 5th a year later..you get the picture.

I actually had conversations with my friends and told them GW seems to know what its doing with fantasy! It was a safe longterm stable buy. Again i spent 1000s( and vets don't spend pffft hogwash) What an absolute idiot i feel. How gullible we are. I had a sick bad feeling with end times and so glad i didn't spend on it..to be honest i tried to! but gw didn't have stock! lucky.

Its ironic that the retro graphic design harks back to a time (90s) when i felt gw were going in the wrong direction,,horrible primary colours and childish pictures.It was around this time they dropped WHFRP and a whole bunch of great stuff. Its all part of the cycle it must be..bring in kids grow with them for a few years then reset. i dunno.

OT! overwhelming negative

ItsAquila
28-06-2015, 11:23
Am I the only one who sees the similarities? :D

216061

G.Hawke
28-06-2015, 11:28
Well, First off: You are really rude.

"Speak the truth, even if your voice may shake". - attributed to Lorgar.

I am being brutally honest. I think the majority of comments seem to given from the perspective of people who don't want to purchase new models (and a fair few of the ones i've seen support 'old' fantasy are people who've avoided purchasing new miniatures since 5/6th edition) or to make any great efforts to learn new rules.

Sure it's not a fun thing to find out the game you know and like (possibly love for the few) is being nuked but on the other hand the company producing it has decided 'hey lets try and re-invigorate a great IP which has suffered increasing dwindling sales'. Look for forgeworlds Warhammer forge, which has no only failed to take off but has begun to give out free rules as no one was buying the books. There are perfectly reasonable arguements for a design following more closely the old empire design, but also remember that it isn't The Old World. That's gone, dead, kaput, finished and finalised. What we are entering now is what happens after the old world is gone.

So why would GW move its designed towards the ridiculous 40k style over it's more realistic empire basis? Because space marines sell. It's cold, it's hard and it's brutal but it's a fact. 40k outsells fantasy. If you have a game which is moving towards becoming fiscally unsupportable vs a 900lbs gorilla of a game, why wouldn't you borrow from that franchise?

Round bases also offer a much more interesting design in terms of game play and modelling design. Square bases also felt a little limit to me, given they are mainly there for block movements fantasy was reliant upon for its game mechanics.

I honestly think GW are being quite brave with what they are doing, it's taking a three decade old franchise where half the people buying the models either can't find a game or don't want a game into an exciting new format that could drag more than a few 40k players into the fantasy realm.

So do i think people should lament the death of the old world? perhaps. However i'd lament the death of the entire fantasy franchise much more. Change is required if the game wants to avoid becoming necromunda'd.

-hawke

shelfunit.
28-06-2015, 11:32
Are full plate guys that look like angekls attractive to a young audience?YES!

What exactly are you basing this assertion on?


Now a new setting/new game where everyone wil make a FRESH start and be on the same level? A new game made for a younger audience? A game where new players will have to start their armies from scratch?

Where will these new players come from?

Samsonov
28-06-2015, 11:37
The Sigmarines are knock-offs from any mass-market fantasy video game from the last decade.This.

They look nicely sculpted and plausibly they have done a good job measured by standards of mass-market fantasy video game. So plausibly they will sell, even entice warmahordes players. But it is something I have very little interest in. If the fluff is good then there is a small possibility I might dabble, otherwise other manufacturers will see most my fantasy funds.

Kakapo42
28-06-2015, 11:46
The question is of all those people that chosed a negative option how much did you spend on Warhammer the last couple of years? Ebay doesn't count...

A lot - I don't know an exact number but probably over $2000 in total. That trend would have almost certainly continued had it not been for the ET series and now this.

ItsAquila
28-06-2015, 11:48
"Speak the truth, even if your voice may shake". - attributed to Lorgar.

I am being brutally honest.
-hawke

I cant really say much about your first claim that negativ comments come from people who either dont purchase new models or are to lazy to learn new rules. I for one am both! I mostly paint and model stuff for clients. So, I dont really see myself in any of these two groups. :D I tend to agree with you on the "jaded in regards to humanity" thing. But I still would not make such a krass statement, which is based on an asumption(?). Anyway, moving on.

Oh, about GW "nukeing" the setting: I totally agree with you! Something was needed to change, definitly. The Game was dying, no question about it. I am even one of these people who tells lizard players: 'Sucks to be you, but its not like GW can support that miniature range anymore with the current sales. Fringe armies go first. What did you expect?' My gripe is mostly with how they try to reinvigorate the setting.
I am all openminded about new things. I just think it is a very bad move that the new things are neither of the following:

1. original (These powerarmor things with big glowing weapons and abstract/cristal wings are done ad nauseum by World of Warcraft (I think Ulduar stuff had weapons like that?) the game of the screenshot I just linked and many more.)
2. have even a passing sembalance to existing things (note: that does not mean I think everything should be slaveishly bound to the old design. But I think the renaissance Setting can be taken QUITE far. See: Deus Ex: Mankind Devided or Deus Ex: Human Revolution.)

I have no complains about round bases. I think they are cool for more dynamic poses. And the quality of the sculpts are way better then anything before. (thats something I mentioned multiple times) The most concering thing for me here is that I need to be more careful packing Miniatures, but thats nothing major.
About Rules: I dont even think we know that much about them. All my gripes about this new stuff come from the way the design was handled. :)

GW being brave: Yes, they are! I have a hard time understanding some of the design decisions though. :( I dread that it will blow up in their faces.

TheFang
28-06-2015, 11:50
Has anyone considered the possibility this is to replace Lord of the Rings not Warhammer?
That's 30k it would seem.

I like the chaos and the Sigmarites might be a good source of conversion bits. Obviously for 40k though. I gave up on Fantasy years ago so fortunately I haven't the emotional investment in the setting anymore.

Shas'El Tael
28-06-2015, 12:24
My critique in the negative stems from how spectacularly GW design team can score one out of the park like Adeptus Mechanicus - then well, I've said my peace on these.

I'm looking toward the future releases past AoS launch box; the design team are capable of impressive things, my vote stands on this particular release however.

Zywus
28-06-2015, 12:36
Mostly negative for me. I didn't choose Overwhelmingly negative, simply because I didn't expect any better from this release. The models are not technically bad in any way as far as I can see, and presumably have good detailing etc. They just are wholly uninteresting to me without a connection to a rich, exhaustive and interesting background such as can be found in WH40K and WHFB.

I don't understand the whole 'Fantasy was failing and so GW needed to reboot' argument since they removed the things that was popular (Fluff, Model design) and in this reboot they'll presumably keep what was unpopular and were draining the player base (Bad internal and external balance, although Fantasy was still miles ahead of 40k). I know that people somehow was under the impression that you always had to play massive 3000p battles with loads of 50 man hordes, which meant a huge barrier of entry but this could have easily been changed with a regular edition change if the rules writers would have put in a modicum of thought in their work as well as connecting with the player base and the organised gaming community.

Is it unfair of me to assume that the AoS rules will be unbalanced and lacking? Perhaps. Although can anyone honestly say GW deserve any benefit of doubt when it comes to rules writing and balance after their offering from these last years?

Having said that. I'm amazed at how high a percentage of people have a positive reaction to this release so perhaps the game will not crash and burn, as I have assumed ever since I heard the rumours about this. Perhaps it will thrive and bring about a new golden age of Fantasy. In any case I will not be a part of it.

someone2040
28-06-2015, 12:50
I don't get why there isn't a neutral option. But anyway.
After the shock of how different the Sigmarines are to the current empire has worn off, I have to say I'm pretty neutral about the whole thing.
So the Sigmarines. I'm fine with them, as long as they're not a replacement for the bog standard human who are the regular joes fighting against the horrors of the undead/chaos/etc. It's hard to say how the fit fluffwise into the world, because we don't know anything about the new world. Where have these mystery warriors come from? are they actually human? etc. If they're some form of supplementary force to regular state troops and all that (Kinda like what Space Marines should be to Guardsmen), then possibly they're alright. Without knowing the fluff though, it's hard to say whether I want to keep the death masks, change them to human heads, or go something like Arch Angel Tyrael conversions. Maybe there's an absolutely cool reason they all have death masks. Maybe there's not.

So yeah, if they're the replacements for humans, I'm not too keen on that. As I actually like what the Empire currently is (With their state troops, warrior priests, witch huners, knightly orders, etc). If they're supplementary, I think it's probably a fine addition to the game as long as the fluff isn't completely non-sensical. So overall, I think a large degree of it really depends on what the fluff is. They're certainly not terrible models by any means, but the appeal to them, to me, will have to come from the fluff. Space Marines aren't super popular just by having good models, cause lets be honest, most races have pretty awesome models. A large part of it is also the fluff behind them.

The Chaos I'm fairly non-plussed about. I don't know if I like the Marauders all being on steroids, hopefully they wouldn't be too much bigger than the current marauders to be honest. I'm interested to see how it all fits in with the current range of Chaos models (Which I quite like the Warriors/Chosen/Knights). To be honest, I was kinda hoping that Age of Sigmar would inspire me to start a Chaos Warband with the Crom the Conquerer and Be'Lakor models. I'm not sure the pictures we've seen from the boxed set completely do that, especially being Khorne themed (I'd like to do undivided. But perhaps that may go the way of the dodo).

If anything, I feel that the Sigmarines side inspires me more than the models on the Chaos side. But we shall see. I'm certainly not sure if it's a day 1 pickup for me. Especially since being the new boxed set, it's likely to spawn a lot of Sigmarine and Chaos armies straight off.

Tokamak
28-06-2015, 12:51
In the end this is GW trying to convince the shareholders that it was anything but the pricing that turned people off the hobby.

Ben
28-06-2015, 12:52
This whole thread can be summed up with 'people don't like change' and 'haters gonna hate'.

Personally I like the Chaos models, and I'll combine them with some Chaos stuff I still have on sprue.

The Marauders are a massive step up, the warriors are fine and there will hopefully be a new multi part warrior kit with all the weapon options.

The Sigmarines look ok, but may not be my cup of tea.

On the rules, nobody has seen them, so I'm waiting for them to hit. Hopefully the GW marketing machine will kick in after the all manager meeting and all indy conference call on Monday.

Crimson Reaver
28-06-2015, 12:55
Slightly negative here. Haven't had the massive investment in WH so would have been coming in as a new player who got out and sold my models when 8th dropped.

What I'm looking for is the first Elf release, and the aesthetics of that range, because I was a fan of the High Elf and Wood Elf stuff. I wouldn't buy a Sigmarite force, haven't liked the way they've taken the Blood Angels and don't like the AoS equivalent either. The lack of faces really puts me off, the death masks are really off-putting. With regular helms and the occasional open face helmet I'd have been more on board. Chaos look pretty good though, although I'm not a Chaos player so again nothing to get me stoked there.

The proof is really going to come with the rules, I'm fine with not being 100% enthused by some of the models if I get a good game out of it, but GW have been going downhill with their rules for years now so I'm not holding out a great deal of hope. Something LotR-esque would be good but if it looks to be very simple, I'll pass. As a kid I actually liked having to learn a reasonable number of rules when playing, something like Necromunda was a nice sweet spot, so if they've simplified it too much then I'm definitely not going to pick this up.

itcamefromthedeep
28-06-2015, 13:11
Excellent examples of the craft, when seen in a vacuum.

Small bands of warriors wandering the Chaos Wastes is where the greatest strength of the IP is, in my estimation. This seems to accomplish the goal, but without the compelling storytelling part (it's hard to see struggle and humanity in those Sigmarines). It's a little to the left of what I wanted post-End-Times to be.

Tokamak
28-06-2015, 13:12
That's what I liked most about the Empire, they were clearly the underdogs.


The Marauders are a massive step up

Also a massive scale up.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
28-06-2015, 13:25
Mostly negative.. torn between wanting to support GW's new direction and attempt to save Fantasy.. and really not able to find anything I like in the Sigmar force at all.. as a note, and I know a lot of folks aren't bothered by this at all.. but would it really have hurt to have a female figure on either side GW, to even attempt to show that you acknowledge another Gender exists other than the Elven races and a scattering of rarities in a couple of other forces.

Nearly every other fantasy setting across CCG, Mini and boardgames out there right now represent females in some form.. good ole GW.. keeping it back in the 80's.

vlad78
28-06-2015, 13:27
Mostly negative for me. I didn't choose Overwhelmingly negative, simply because I didn't expect any better from this release. The models are not technically bad in any way as far as I can see, and presumably have good detailing etc. They just are wholly uninteresting to me without a connection to a rich, exhaustive and interesting background such as can be found in WH40K and WHFB.

I don't understand the whole 'Fantasy was failing and so GW needed to reboot' argument since they removed the things that was popular (Fluff, Model design) and in this reboot they'll presumably keep what was unpopular and were draining the player base (Bad internal and external balance, although Fantasy was still miles ahead of 40k). I know that people somehow was under the impression that you always had to play massive 3000p battles with loads of 50 man hordes, which meant a huge barrier of entry but this could have easily been changed with a regular edition change if the rules writers would have put in a modicum of thought in their work as well as connecting with the player base and the organised gaming community.

Is it unfair of me to assume that the AoS rules will be unbalanced and lacking? Perhaps. Although can anyone honestly say GW deserve any benefit of doubt when it comes to rules writing and balance after their offering from these last years?

Having said that. I'm amazed at how high a percentage of people have a positive reaction to this release so perhaps the game will not crash and burn, as I have assumed ever since I heard the rumours about this. Perhaps it will thrive and bring about a new golden age of Fantasy. In any case I will not be a part of it.

Well it's been aleady said that GW needed to attract new players in order to please the bean counters and the shareholders, keeping just every wfb players wouldn't be enough. Given how the player base is divided without so much neutral opinions, GW will even more desperatly need new blood.

This dooms the game from the start imho because GW will not invest in the long run if feedbacks are not overwhelmingly positive..
GW is launching a new game in a very competitive environment after having jettisoned 30 years of lore and almost everything which made wfb unique.

This shows only that GW HQ doesn't know their products or the market they seek to attract. GW main argument is just to change the scale to be different from the competition. But everything else is from now on just the same.

I don't see much differences between those sigmar warriors and Mantic elohis.

Kegslayer
28-06-2015, 13:30
The space marines look bad like really bad. The chaos models are cool. First time in 20 years of doing gw I am interested in fantasy. Usually only 40k or any other well done game. So i have hopes for this skirmish style. Will grab a box or two purely for chaos stuff

HelloKitty
28-06-2015, 13:38
There is a lot of positive from my community. Most not current fantasy players though. Most of the current fantasy players hate it.

It should be noted though that most of our current fantasy players dont buy anything.

So in my area this will succeed in getting people to buy fantasy because the older guys already were not, so them walking away does nothing to the bottom line anyway since they werent buying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 13:43
There is a lot of positive from my community. Most not current fantasy players though. Most of the current fantasy players hate it.

It should be noted though that most of our current fantasy players dont buy anything.

So in my area this will succeed in getting people to buy fantasy because the older guys already were not, so them walking away does nothing to the bottom line anyway since they werent buying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is the same reaction in my community. The old players, who didn't much if anything, and now wonder why he game is changing, don't like it. But a majority of he community are looking forward to seeing more.

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 13:46
Excellent examples of the craft, when seen in a vacuum.

Small bands of warriors wandering the Chaos Wastes is where the greatest strength of the IP is, in my estimation. This seems to accomplish the goal, but without the compelling storytelling part (it's hard to see struggle and humanity in those Sigmarines). It's a little to the left of what I wanted post-End-Times to be.

Two things, who sais that they are humans? And this is only the forst two factions. Who knows what is around the corner, and what the next 3 months of releases will bring.

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 13:48
Sorry mate, no offence but i love your comments.....you are propably a veteran of WHF like myself i assume. You need to realise one thing and one thing only..."This game is not made for the old players!" Are full plate guys that look like angekls attractive to a young audience?YES!

We can go on and on and on for hous of me trying to explain every single thing about decision making, investment valuation etc. Its my rl specialty after all! You, me (well not really) and the rest of the dinos didnt spend enough money the last years on this game simply because we had our minis from the previous ones. We were just buying the book and the new kit maybe if it was viable and thats it. That doesnt generate money enough.....that generates cookies!

Now a new setting/new game where everyone wil make a FRESH start and be on the same level? A new game made for a younger audience? A game where new players will have to start their armies from scratch? A new game where i wont need 5 hours to play? (people in the financial services among others will understand the loooooong working hours)
You and me dont belong in this setting according to GWs plans. For sure i will try this new game since money was never the problem, time was.

Will i like the aesthetics of every army?Hell no! I didnt even like most of them during WHF. Will there be at least 1 that will attract my attention? 99% yes. Already did tbh.
As long as a get a new fresh start as everyone else and make this game sorter in length yet fun will decent looking minis, i ll spend my money and wont cry for all the thousand of dwarf and o&g points i have. The biggest problem that most people have is money. Not enough money to spend on expensive minis. And ofc i understand that. But thats another thread discussing the pricing policy etc.

My 8th ed army will still be here and so is the rulebook. I can always play that if i want to. But i will also try AOS.

This.

This + 1000

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 13:49
Am I the only one who sees the similarities? :D

216061

Yeah. Because armored knights with angel wings is SO original. They all look the same, because they are inspired by the same source material.

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 13:53
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to 40 Fantasy. If this is what Warhammer is turning into, eBay prepare for an overload of armies at fire sale prices. If GW thinks that their 8th edition players are just going fall in line for this Warhammer Junior version of Fantasy, they are sorely mistaken. God, do I truly feel sorry for the guys who play at the tournament level. If this unimaginative junk is what fantasy is turning into, watch the real End Times that are about to come.

They don't.

If anything they are betting on the opposite. Since the 8th players apparently didn't buy enough to make GW continue with rinse-repeat versions of the same game.

Harshly put, they don't give a damn about the deminishing 8th fanbase.

AoS is all about looking forward and making something new and modern.

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 13:56
wow there's some grade A crying going on here.

GW are making positive steps to re-envigorate a three decade old game that's not only stagnated but nearly crushed itself under its own weight. Instead of doing the same minor adjustments that don't really change anything and add a few new rules they've actuallyed decided to start from the beginning.

I think the 'its not the old world' thing is missing the point, since the point is exactly that it isn't the old world. The franchise looks like its entering a new brilliant world, freed from the classic warhammer (which you can still play btw) rules set of square bases and square units into what could potentially (pending rules) be a fantastic open tabletop battle system with all the best bits of warhammer with none of the sink holes.

but hey, if you want to go on crying about how something that was close to losing most of its fanbase and revenue got trashed then go ahead. I for one am pre-ordering the feth out of that boxset.

-Hawke

This too. Alot.

+1.

itcamefromthedeep
28-06-2015, 14:17
Mostly negative.. torn between wanting to support GW's new direction and attempt to save Fantasy.. and really not able to find anything I like in the Sigmar force at all.. as a note, and I know a lot of folks aren't bothered by this at all.. but would it really have hurt to have a female figure on either side GW, to even attempt to show that you acknowledge another Gender exists other than the Elven races and a scattering of rarities in a couple of other forces.

Nearly every other fantasy setting across CCG, Mini and boardgames out there right now represent females in some form.. good ole GW.. keeping it back in the 80's.
There were "leaks" about box contents not long ago. You can tell they were fake because there was a variety of women, who weren't even white people.

People notice. The company seems to think that making a range of nothing but white men as far as the eye can see will increase sales for their "core demographic" of white men.

Regardless of whther you think the strategy is wise (and let's not derail the thread with that), it's clearly on display here. It's as plain as the Sigmarines visual trend.

hellsarcher
28-06-2015, 14:21
I am slightly negative. Since the rumours hit I have gone from being majorly hacked off, to acceptance to wanting to like age of sigmar. I have spent about £200 per month since January trying to get the 8th ed models I want and get my existing armies up to about 3k each so I can continue with 8th in case I hate age of sigmar. The round bases thing I was expecting so don't really care about at this point in time. The sigmarines made my heart sink as they definitely look like something from warmachine mashed with 40k, perhaps some head swaps might make them better? I had been longing for a heavily armoured good guys faction who could stand up to chaos as all my armies are on the squishy side, I hoped an updated brets would be my answer instead we get these. I don't care for the chaos aesthetic anyway but my oh likes them and they haven't changed much from what already exists. At this point in time I will not get this set and am unlikely to play age of sigmar. The chaos side gives me hope that at least some of the other armies may not change too much, I really need the full rules and to see the skaven, elves and undead to make up my mind. I also would have liked to have seen at least one female model in that set, a fantasy game that comes up with kick ass, not overly sexualized stupidly posed almost naked female models is a game system and company I would definitely buy from. For now i will carry on with 8th ed,get my models whilst they are still available and give kow a go. For skirmish I have considered Godslayer, just waiting for them to develop a starter set. I will go to a gw store to demo age of sigmar and try not to let my current bad feeling cloud my judgement of its gameplay.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
28-06-2015, 14:22
Aye, not wanting to derail at all.. but I obviously I am in the 'I think its a bad idea camp' and I really hoped a fresh start would see them finally make some proper strides in that area.. tbh the only reason I probably gave those now very fake rumours a moment of my time, is the long hope to see more females in GW armies.

Seems once again my hopes are going to be dashed.

Kotrag
28-06-2015, 14:28
Ugh, what is this obsession with having so-called "strong, independent female characters" in everything nowadays. Tolkien's masterpieces have no such things, yet they are what they are.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 14:35
What exactly are you basing this assertion on?

Space marines....one of the most played armies and most atractive to kids and sigmarines look like them!AKA logic...


Where will these new players come from? From the same place where all people come for all goods.Kids will get past GW stores. Kids find it attractive?They buy it. Or their daddy to be more specific.
Will their daddy prefer to pay X amaount of money for an average of 40 minis or would the daddy be more willing to pay 3 multiplied by X for an army with 3 times the number of minis?

I m willing to bet on this mate if you want whether they will succeed with newhammer or not.Succeed as company?i have no idea. Will it be more succesful than WHF?hmmmm i think yes

Morathi's Darkest Sin
28-06-2015, 14:37
Ugh, what is this obsession with having so-called "strong, independent female characters" in everything nowadays. Tolkien's masterpieces have no such things, yet they are what they are.

They only make up 50% of the species.. damn the suggestion that they are somehow represented in our fantasy settings.. As to Tolkien.. I can't get past the first book.. Zzzzzz... so perhaps maybe.. not everyone thinks like you. ;)

DeathGlam
28-06-2015, 14:49
That is the same reaction in my community. The old players, who didn't much if anything, and now wonder why he game is changing, don't like it. But a majority of he community are looking forward to seeing more.

Similar in my gaming club, only difference is all but one of our fantasy players is willing to judge this on its own merits, so they might get sales from us veterans too, we are looking at it as a new game, we have no need to stop playing mass ranked battles too just because the community or GW tell us it is dead.

hellsarcher
28-06-2015, 14:49
I am a girl, I like to play games be they videogames, table top or board games. Although I'm happy with my male you soldiers I'd really like to have some cool girl toy soldiers to play with please, is that not allowed? i also like to think that I am a strong woman, I have been a soldier, I am a paramedic, I'm a pretty good bare bow field archer, I can best most of the guys who joined my historical fencing club at the same time as me with either a long sword or rapier and dagger, I can out ride most of male friends at mountain biking. If my general is meant to be my avatar and represent me Id like them to preferably be female and be capable of kicking **** and not look like a sexual play thing. Back on topic now? Forgot to say I really enjoy painting so even if I chose to skip AOS I will probably buy any models that I think look cool.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 14:55
I am a girl, I like to play games be they videogames, table top or board games. Although I'm happy with my male you soldiers I'd really like to have some cool girl toy soldiers to play with please, is that not allowed? i also like to think that I am a strong woman, I have been a soldier, I am a paramedic, I'm a pretty good bare bow field archer, I can best most of the guys who joined my historical fencing club at the same time as me with either a long sword or rapier and dagger, I can out ride most of male friends at mountain biking. If my general is meant to be my avatar and represent me Id like them to preferably be female and be capable of kicking **** and not look like a sexual play thing. Back on topic now? Forgot to say I really enjoy painting so even if I chose to skip AOS I will probably buy any models that I think look cool.

Well the only armies that had females were the Elven ones and the VC but that doesnt count i think. I do hope they introduce some female models, hopefully with the new elves.One can only hope though until we have solid rumors.

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 15:03
I am a girl, I like to play games be they videogames, table top or board games. Although I'm happy with my male you soldiers I'd really like to have some cool girl toy soldiers to play with please, is that not allowed? i also like to think that I am a strong woman, I have been a soldier, I am a paramedic, I'm a pretty good bare bow field archer, I can best most of the guys who joined my historical fencing club at the same time as me with either a long sword or rapier and dagger, I can out ride most of male friends at mountain biking. If my general is meant to be my avatar and represent me Id like them to preferably be female and be capable of kicking **** and not look like a sexual play thing. Back on topic now? Forgot to say I really enjoy painting so even if I chose to skip AOS I will probably buy any models that I think look cool.


Amen.

Oh and I an a guy, and I would love some female character and minis too. And them not looking like sexbots.

nosebiter
28-06-2015, 15:04
These inevitable "I'm a girl and as good at boy's stuff as anybody" posts are always so hilarious. And are also emblematic of why I hate female characters in the first place.

Wauv, just wauv...:confused:

Are you serious, or just trolling?

Philhelm
28-06-2015, 15:06
This whole thread can be summed up with 'people don't like change' and 'haters gonna hate'.

You're not the only one, but this is a B.S. argument. A more apt observation is that people don't like to have the rug swept from beneath their feet.

I got back into Warhammer Fantasy almost two years ago (I started with Warhammer and Warhammer 40K in 1994 and 1995, respectfully, and throughout the years have purchased several subsequent editions, played Necromunda and Bloodbowl, and purchased some Mordheim products). I dug up some of the Empire miniatures I had and started assembling and painting, every night, if possible. I then purchased many kits in order to expand my force: War Wagons, State Troops, Flagellants, Karl Franz, etc. I used to never finish armies, and ironically with less time on my hands it was easier to devote more of my free time to modeling. I even got my father back into the game, and he worked on a large Vampire Counts army having started with only an old Manfred von Carstein and a box of Skeleton Warriors. On top of that, I also purchased some Dark Elves and Skaven for future projects, but it seems unlikely that I'll ever have the opportunity to finish those armies now.

Now we both have half-complete armies and all of a sudden the rug was swept from beneath our feet. Even the round base rumors, now confirmed, were frustrating. I haven't purchased or painted a model in six months, since I wanted to see what will happen. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the investment of time than money, as I work full-time and have a wife and two young children. However, the time and money I invested into Warhammer were for the game setting as it was. Change is neither inherently good nor bad, but the changes that are being foisted upon us are screwing a lot of people over. Sure, I still own my miniatures and can play 8th edition, Oldhammer, KOW, etc., but I'll likely never be able to finish my armies. I can't afford to grab up all of the kits that I think I'll need (never mind the unforeseen). If I were starting from scratch, I wouldn't be as concerned, although I'd still be miffed about the Old World setting being nuked.

G.Hawke
28-06-2015, 15:14
Actually... yeah i can't defend the power armour look. So long as these guys are elite 'field in normal armies units of 10 or less' i don't have an issue. I must admit i with they'd comprised between these and the empire models (that being said, those angels and that lion rider are beasts and the standard bearer is so good i need to buy two).

The chaos faction impresses me the most, down the little hook hand replacement, high quality ott muscle sculpts and crazy combo's going on. For a clip to fit kit this goes beyond even dark vengence, which most people would agree is amazing for its type.

-hawke

Kotrag
28-06-2015, 15:16
Wauv, just wauv...:confused:

Are you serious, or just trolling?

A little from column A and a little from column B.

It's also a hammer
28-06-2015, 15:19
Not sure- I'm not stubborn enough to not want to try AoS and hopefully the elf stuff will eventually be good. I'm more concerned about my mahoosive elf army that I spent about £300 this year alone just so I can add DE and WE stuff to my HE to make an Eternity King army and whether I'll be able to get the models I want in time before they go.

Also regardless of falling sales... I loved the background I have been reading for 20years the characters I've seen develop over 20 years all gone. Imagine JK Rowling deciding some of her new books weren't selling as much as Harry Potter so she re-wrote it where Voldemort won and the Order of the Phoenix were a small collection of wizard rebels who worshipped Dumbledore as a god and Harry as his Avatar.

Also on a slightly different note in this tirade of shocked, upset disappointment and horror...

FOR THE WATCH!

EmperorNorton
28-06-2015, 15:19
You're not the only one, but this is a B.S. argument. A more apt observation is that people don't like to have the rug swept from beneath their feet.

Exactly.
It's not that I generally don't like change; I don't like change that has no positive effect for me, only downsides.
It does not make me mindless hater when I don't like a development that devalues considerable amounts of money and time I have spent on Warhammer. Spare me the "nobody is going to take away your stuff" argument. The introduction of Age of Sigmar will erode the player base that has already shrunk considerably over the last few years. Warhammer's biggest strength compared to other tabletop wargames was that you were likely to find a willing opponent almost anywhere. No more.

lbecks
28-06-2015, 15:23
Depending on the price, mostly positive.

shelfunit.
28-06-2015, 16:03
Space marines....one of the most played armies and most atractive to kids and sigmarines look like them!AKA logic...

But 40K sales are down as well, so maybe "logic" isn't the right word there.


From the same place where all people come for all goods.Kids will get past GW stores. Kids find it attractive?They buy it. Or their daddy to be more specific.
Will their daddy prefer to pay X amaount of money for an average of 40 minis or would the daddy be more willing to pay 3 multiplied by X for an army with 3 times the number of minis?

I m willing to bet on this mate if you want whether they will succeed with newhammer or not.Succeed as company?i have no idea. Will it be more succesful than WHF?hmmmm i think yes

Customers are leaving GW faster than they are coming in, this is shown by their own financial data. No advertising, and no attempt to determine what their current, or potential customers want means this will continue to be the case. I see zero evidence to suggest this will have any greater impact on their sales than a new edition of Warhammer would. So I ask again - what are you basing the assertion that heavily armoured angels are what people want - given no market research has been done, and, given that there is no external advertising, and that they are bleeding customers left right & centre, who is going to buy it?

itcamefromthedeep
28-06-2015, 16:20
Ugh, what is this obsession with having so-called "strong, independent female characters" in everything nowadays. Tolkien's masterpieces have no such things, yet they are what they are.LoTR had Eowyn and Galadriel.

You don't *need* to include strong women in every piece of media, but I'd like to see it happen in fiction at least as often as it does in real life, and ideally it should happen in fiction as often as it should happen in real life. I don't see the gain from artificially excluding demographics.

---

If this game takes off I'll join the bandwagon somewhere down the line. However, it'll need to prove a better product than GW has ever produced before in order to get me in. The bar is not where it was when I purchased my Fantasy armies. The minis alone are not good enough to get a buy-in from me.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
28-06-2015, 16:24
But 40K sales are down as well, so maybe "logic" isn't the right word there.

Customers are leaving GW faster than they are coming in, this is shown by their own financial data. No advertising, and no attempt to determine what their current, or potential customers want means this will continue to be the case. I see zero evidence to suggest this will have any greater impact on their sales than a new edition of Warhammer would. So I ask again - what are you basing the assertion that heavily armoured angels are what people want - given no market research has been done, and, given that there is no external advertising, and that they are bleeding customers left right & centre, who is going to buy it?

GW does seem to have forgotten that vets and gaming clubs are a large source of new players.. their stores do as well.. but I think they are overlooking that the clubs are also important.. and changing attitudes in them are a factor in their falling sales data.

A totally anecdotal example is a local club I have followed on facebook (not managed to attend yet) has switched from being a GW focused club to a Bolt Action club over the past year, so any new gamers joining that club are looking towards Bolt Action, not 40K or Fantasy.. I have heard of similar things, maybe with different games being the new focus elsewhere in other folks local clubs as well.. but of course how does GW know that when they proudly note they don't do market Research.

mdauben
28-06-2015, 17:15
SIGMARITES
Taken on their own, I actually like these guys, gold armor and all. From the more reliable rumor sources they are pretty much exactly what I was expecting. They are IMO a jarring departure from the old WFB look, but I guess that was deliberate.

CHAOS
These guys are alright and less of a radical change from what came before. I've really never been a fan of Chaos in WFB and these guys, well done as they are, don't really do anything to change my mind.

So, over all my reaction is ambivalence. I really have not played any WFB for the last year or two, but I've gone through cycles like this before. Drift away from GW for a while and play other games then come back for a while. I've never been a 100% GW gamer. I was rather hoping this new set would spark a renewed interest in WFB but in the end it hasn't. I suppose I'll wait a while longer and see how the other new miniatures and the eventual BRB turn out before deciding to commit to 9th ed, but if I don't there's still plenty of other games in my closet to keep me busy the rest of my life. ;)

Shandor
28-06-2015, 20:56
I really wonder how this could happen?

GW meeting:
"what are the Kids playing today?"
"Well my Kids are playing Wow and Aion..."
"Oh thats cool lets mix Aion, Wow and our beloved Space Marines and get tons of new players money!"
"Yeah the peoples will love this!"

"Hey but what about all our Veteran players?"
"Thats easy.. make the box look like the our covers in the 80ies and they will buy it for the nostalgic effect"

RagnarBlack
28-06-2015, 21:07
I really wonder how this could happen?

GW meeting:
"what are the Kids playing today?"
"Well my Kids are playing Wow and Aion..."
"Oh thats cool lets mix Aion, Wow and our beloved Space Marines and get tons of new players money!"
"Yeah the peoples will love this!"

"Hey but what about all our Veteran players?"
"Thats easy.. make the box look like the our covers in the 80ies and they will buy it for the nostalgic effect"

good one..But it still hurts. And guys it is not about hate, but about passion and love...

And I am disappointed that whoever will say, the aesthetic just don't fit my taste is hater..

I am kind of hearth broken..

That's all.

And I bought all new models for HE. Even two Skycutters and that only because I liked the hero on foot..

So please don't patronize.

Shandor
28-06-2015, 21:16
good one..But it still hurts. And guys it is not about hate, but about passion and love...

And I am disappointed that whoever will say, the aesthetic just don't fit my taste is hater..

I am kind of hearth broken..

That's all.

And I bought all new models for HE. Even two Skycutters and that only because I liked the hero on foot..

So please don't patronize.

Really im not a GW Hater or something. I like the 8th edition and i even liked the End times. Had alot fun with it. I dont care the prices and all that.

What i care is the Game. I played WHF because i like big armies, Rank and file, flanking attacks, dark style and big monsters charging into a block of 50 spearman (or what ever)
If i would like skirmish games with strange looking Models i would not have played WHF i would have played Warmachine or something.

But what should i play now? Sure i can stay with the 8th. edition. But how long will it work? i dont know anyone playing the 7th or 6th edition still. why should it work now? Without new models and content?

For me it seems that GW dont want to keep me as a costumer.

RagnarBlack
28-06-2015, 21:25
Really im not a GW Hater or something. I like the 8th edition and i even liked the End times. Had alot fun with it. I dont care the prices and all that.

What i care is the Game. I played WHF because i like big armies, Rank and file, flanking attacks, dark style and big monsters charging into a block of 50 spearman (or what ever)
If i would like skirmish games with strange looking Models i would not have played WHF i would have played Warmachine or something.

But what should i play now? Sure i can stay with the 8th. edition. But how long will it work? i dont know anyone playing the 7th or 6th edition still. why should it work now? Without new models and content?

For me it seems that GW dont want to keep me as a costumer.

Apparently.. Their path is clear.. They want to convince people to buy it.. New awesome high fantasy. Where the balance will be at good side.. Now the evil will be beaten. It is kind of clear from the content of the box that the power is shifted to this new false god. :D

Time will tell....

But to me the content is Dark Vengeance in fantasy.

And Shandor. I like the Old World with all content... But that ended.. You know these were really The End Times. Also my reply was not directed at you and it wasn't even irony.. I really see your point.. It was just misunderstand as I am on same note as you are. The reply whole was for these people her who are saying that everybody who don't like this new shiny stuff is hater and didn't spend anything..

Brother Haephestus
28-06-2015, 21:30
You're not the only one, but this is a B.S. argument. A more apt observation is that people don't like to have the rug swept from beneath their feet.
One of the things that people seem to be leaning to is that the change was done maliciously. That's where the real problem comes in. All we can see is how this impacts us, personally, and how dare they!

It does not bring into consideration the issues surrounding the necessity for change. Doesn't matter about GW's business style or what we think we can armchair-quarterback into a profitable earnings statement, the fact is that GW felt it was in their best interest to change the game. It wasn't done to sweep anyone's feet out from under them, as if GW had some sort of prognosticatability and decided to deliberately screw with one Herman T. Webber of 101 West 42nd St. You and I? We're ghosts. Even if they had huge feelers into the customer base, you and I are just individuals, and they cannot cater to your needs or my needs. They cater to theirs.

Games have been coming and going for a long time now. The good ones go through revisions and we have decades of enjoyment out of them. Others are here, and then gone (Clan War, VOR, Trinity - Battleground, Tribes-Rebellion, Renegade Legion ...). There is no long-term promise owed you. Carpe diem - 'sieze the day', because there are no promises. Anything else borders on narcissistic wish-listing.

I think the new models look pretty good. The Marauders look a bit chubby, but I think the Sigmar force looks amazing! I am going to have a delightful time painting these and putting them on the gaming table, and will enjoy doing so for as long a time as I have been allotted to do so.

Shandor
28-06-2015, 21:31
I didnt feel offended by you or something. :)

I just wanted to make clear my Aion+wow+Space Marine post wasnt because im "just another Hater"

duffybear1988
28-06-2015, 21:33
GW's best hope of drawing in new blood is/was Total War: Warhammer. I wonder if all that's now going to happen is new players buying everything off of ebay as GW no longer stocks the armies they want to play. The Total War creators obviously thought the Fantasy setting would generate enough sale to be a commercial success. It's funny that GW can't see that.

That said, I have a friend who buys everything GW related so I'll try the game a couple of times before passing judgement on the rules.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 21:42
But 40K sales are down as well, so maybe "logic" isn't the right word there.

Well time will tell on GW's stock price once AOS hits the shelves and the following quarter.I havent seen any detail numbers on 40k sales worldwide for the last 6 moths so unlike you who apparently has seen the exact numbers, cant tell you anything on that.


Customers are leaving GW faster than they are coming in, this is shown by their own financial data. No advertising, and no attempt to determine what their current, or potential customers want means this will continue to be the case. I see zero evidence to suggest this will have any greater impact on their sales than a new edition of Warhammer would. So I ask again - what are you basing the assertion that heavily armoured angels are what people want - given no market research has been done, and, given that there is no external advertising, and that they are bleeding customers left right & centre, who is going to buy it?


Btw do you know whats the highest expense apart from R&D for a comapny?Marketing!If GW used any marketing while as you say it would increase sales it would also increase the associated price of their miniatures. But they did say its a niche market and they know that only 1/1000 will start wargaming. Even less than that.


To clarify one thing. Warseer is not even close a representing example on the preferences of the gaming community. Its is also the reason why many including myslef regard it as whineseer, doomseer etc. So what you see here of people becoming totally negative on the new AOS doesnt mean that the majority of the community regards it aswell. If you ask me why i m part of the forums?thats because i like seeing pics and rule leaks prio to the release and read the tactics thread for new armies. And i like a few people. But a few.

Now lets try smthing else. You say that that their sales decline and i know that already. However people mention their competitors and how they flourish. Can you get me specific numbers of players for WH40k, WHF, Mantic, Warmahordes etc? I place my head that GW dominates all of them in terms of player numbers by far. Will that continue to happen in the next 10 years? But a company with a popular IP that has even extended to PC gaming and potentially movies doubt that will easilly fall. I cant tell the future but its not all doom and gloom as people want it to be. Get me the number of AOS stuff they will sell within the next three months and then we ll see who is right and who is wrong. Thats not a bet btw but i cant discuss about the doom of the company for smthing that is not even out yet.

WHF is dead, the sooner people realise it the better. As i said multiple times already i have thousands of points in WHF minis but they will still remain with me along with 8th should AOS becomes a flop.

MiyamatoMusashi
28-06-2015, 22:05
My response: the Sigmarines are simply dreadful. #notmywarhammer, and #nottheGWIfellinlovewithallthoseyearsago either. Utterly appalling, bland, designed-by-committee rubbish.

The Chaos stuff is harder to say; might need clearer pictures, but then the fact that they're so visually messy means clearer pictures might not actually help.


Btw do you know whats the highest expense apart from R&D for a comapny?Marketing!If GW used any marketing while as you say it would increase sales it would also increase the associated price of their miniatures.

Unfortunately here you reveal your complete ignorance of what marketing is for. Marketing (competent marketing, at least) brings in more money than it costs. That's literally the entire point.

Mawduce
28-06-2015, 22:06
I'm a 40k guy, been looking into fantasy since the rumors have been coming in and here is my take. Unless you're a Blood Angels player, or have been wanting to convert an army of Custodies... you probably won't care for the Sigmarines.

I do like how I can build my own hero's/army with its own feel. The free rules will get me to at least take a look before I go jumping in, and the low model count will help me think about pulling the trigger. The reduction in points of 40k models will keep me from doing so soon, (as I now have to rebuild my Marines) but low model count is a plus for an entry level player.

We must remember that Warhammer: Any Version has a garbage entry level. Creating a system that provides a good entry level for new players is key to keeping the system alive. If a new system for larger battles, (last I heard it was Warhammer: Age of Steel) comes then I'll take a look at that as well, or I can modify the rules to fit it if I choose to with my friends.

R Man
28-06-2015, 22:06
Btw do you know whats the highest expense apart from R&D for a comapny?Marketing!If GW used any marketing while as you say it would increase sales it would also increase the associated price of their miniatures. But they did say its a niche market and they know that only 1/1000 will start wargaming. Even less than that.

Isn't the best source of advertising the fans themselves? They work for free after all. However, it means there is a problem when they become alienated. If the fans are not on-board with this game, who is going to get new people into gaming? Which is the problem.


To clarify one thing. Warseer is not even close a representing example on the preferences of the gaming community. Its is also the reason why many including myslef regard it as whineseer, doomseer etc. So what you see here of people becoming totally negative on the new AOS doesnt mean that the majority of the community regards it aswell. If you ask me why i m part of the forums?thats because i like seeing pics and rule leaks prio to the release and read the tactics thread for new armies. And i like a few people. But a few.

True, but does this mean that they are all automatically positive? When I get time later today I will see for myself what other forums are saying. But it would be presumptuous to assume they are anymore enthusiastic than Warseer.


Now lets try smthing else. You say that that their sales decline and i know that already. However people mention their competitors and how they flourish. Can you get me specific numbers of players for WH40k, WHF, Mantic, Warmahordes etc? I place my head that GW dominates all of them in terms of player numbers by far. Will that continue to happen in the next 10 years? But a company with a popular IP that has even extended to PC gaming and potentially movies doubt that will easilly fall. I cant tell the future but its not all doom and gloom as people want it to be. Get me the number of AOS stuff they will sell within the next three months and then we ll see who is right and who is wrong. Thats not a bet btw but i cant discuss about the doom of the company for smthing that is not even out yet.

Then what was wrong with keeping Fantasy? If the player base is so robust I mean? And aren't many of those PC/IP rights tied to the Fantasy setting, which no longer exists?


WHF is dead, the sooner people realise it the better. As i said multiple times already i have thousands of points in WHF minis but they will still remain with me along with 8th should AOS becomes a flop.

WHF being dead was never the issue. The debate is over if this was a good idea or not. Several people, myself included, have tried to point this out. The problem is not change, it is this specific change i.e: The discontinuation of the setting.

Whirlwind
28-06-2015, 22:08
To clarify one thing. Warseer is not even close a representing example on the preferences of the gaming community. Its is also the reason why many including myslef regard it as whineseer, doomseer etc.

Do you know this for certain? I'm not saying you are wrong but it is a bold statement without any erh..market research to back it up. It is known though that people are more willing to express dissatisfaction on forums than personally as they can hide behind their avatar without recrimination for the most part. If you Google Warhammer forum then Warseer is one of the First you come to and hence by default is likely to be the most frequented. I accept you hear from a vocal minority but generally the interesting thing about polls is that they do reflect the population at large when you have a significant number of responses. Just like at elections polling a few hundred can give reasonably accurate results across the whole country (the no smoke without fire effect). Also it is too easy to focus on the negative views but miss the positive ones (a general human flaw, you can get 99% in that test but you'll always remember the 1% you got wrong) Ad mech for 40k was generally well received, so was Nagash etc and wasn't whine seer for these releases. The same can be said for other non war gaming forums too.

duffybear1988
28-06-2015, 22:10
Btw do you know whats the highest expense apart from R&D for a comapny?Marketing!If GW used any marketing while as you say it would increase sales it would also increase the associated price of their miniatures. But they did say its a niche market and they know that only 1/1000 will start wargaming. Even less than that.


To clarify one thing. Warseer is not even close a representing example on the preferences of the gaming community. Its is also the reason why many including myslef regard it as whineseer, doomseer etc. So what you see here of people becoming totally negative on the new AOS doesnt mean that the majority of the community regards it aswell. If you ask me why i m part of the forums?thats because i like seeing pics and rule leaks prio to the release and read the tactics thread for new armies. And i like a few people. But a few.

Now lets try smthing else. You say that that their sales decline and i know that already. However people mention their competitors and how they flourish. Can you get me specific numbers of players for WH40k, WHF, Mantic, Warmahordes etc? I place my head that GW dominates all of them in terms of player numbers by far. Will that continue to happen in the next 10 years? But a company with a popular IP that has even extended to PC gaming and potentially movies doubt that will easilly fall. I cant tell the future but its not all doom and gloom as people want it to be. Get me the number of AOS stuff they will sell within the next three months and then we ll see who is right and who is wrong. Thats not a bet btw but i cant discuss about the doom of the company for smthing that is not even out yet.

WHF is dead, the sooner people realise it the better. As i said multiple times already i have thousands of points in WHF minis but they will still remain with me along with 8th should AOS becomes a flop.

So in other words, you've got no real response other than to point at successfully growing companies and say "well they aren't as big as GW". All very true, but the people that made GW successful have gone, many of them to GW's competitors. If you took the heart surgeon out of the operating theatre would you expect the nurses to continue the operation as successfully?

Mawduce
28-06-2015, 22:19
I think we all need to take a step back and wait for the free rules to come out before we make any knee jerk reactions to models. The tournament scene will most likely continue with 8th edition rules set till a large scale battle system is released. I'm sure you people that do that have contacts you can call to find out. All we have that is concrete here are pictures of models, nothing more.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 22:35
My response: the Sigmarines are simply dreadful. #notmywarhammer, and #nottheGWIfellinlovewithallthoseyearsago either. Utterly appalling, bland, designed-by-committee rubbish.

The Chaos stuff is harder to say; might need clearer pictures, but then the fact that they're so visually messy means clearer pictures might not actually help.



Unfortunately here you reveal your complete ignorance of what marketing is for. Marketing (competent marketing, at least) brings in more money than it costs. That's literally the entire point.


Ok get a detailed report of amjor company's expenses and read how much of their toal expenses are for marketing. And when it comes to wargaming tell me how much they will get out of it in terms of sales. As someone said already. GW marketing is their store and the people that play already.....but but but what would i know. We are not talking about samsung, apple or uninelever lad. We are talking about a campny that makes toy soldiers for nerds like me and you.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 22:36
So in other words, you've got no real response other than to point at successfully growing companies and say "well they aren't as big as GW". All very true, but the people that made GW successful have gone, many of them to GW's competitors. If you took the heart surgeon out of the operating theatre would you expect the nurses to continue the operation as successfully?

You can always get new surgeons. Any big hospital will attract qualified surgeons if they need to find a few.

Lord Dan
28-06-2015, 22:36
I think we all need to take a step back and wait for the free rules to come out before we make any knee jerk reactions to models.

I'm speaking for myself here, but if I don't like the models then the ruleset - no matter how well-written - isn't going to convince me to buy them. In a best-case scenario, an awesome set of Fantasy Skirmish rules would result in my using old GW and LoTR models as stand-ins, not picking up these...things.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 22:41
Then what was wrong with keeping Fantasy? If the player base is so robust I mean? And aren't many of those PC/IP rights tied to the Fantasy setting, which no longer exists?
It just wasnt even close to profitable anymore. They needed numbers and they were not getting any. 40k is the profitable one WHF was not.i doubt WHF was profitable and just one day they said oh well, its profitable but we dont like the community so we ll scrap it. AOS is the last chance for a fantasy setting with swords etc for GW. If it doesnt work, pretty much kiss bye bye WH. If the rules are like 40k then they follow the same assumingly succesfull recipe.

Mawduce
28-06-2015, 22:42
I'm speaking for myself here, but if I don't like the models then the ruleset - no matter how well-written - isn't going to convince me to buy them. In a best-case scenario, an awesome set of Fantasy Skirmish rules would result in my using old GW and LoTR models as stand-ins, not picking up these...things.

You can proxy whatever you want, that's not the issue I'm getting at. It's people just writing off the whole thing because of plastic. It's super easy to get stand in models for fantasy. As far as that goes, its all up to GW to make good models. As far as the game goes, we can't judge it by the model design.

DinDon
28-06-2015, 22:46
It all comes down to personal tastes and i completelly understand Lord Dan. Some people like the new iphone6 some people the iphone5 some people Samsung.

Shadeseraph
28-06-2015, 23:13
I'm not into overly bulky warriors in ornate armor or steroids, and I've never liked chaos, either. The minis look good, quality-wise, but are not my cup of tea thematically or aesthetically. Pass.

Here is hoping the remaining factions break out of that style.

Gotta admit that the rules will impact seriously on my desire to keep up with this or I'll leave this new game aside. I'm not into big heroes or centerpieces, and that seems to be the path GW is going to take with this new game, according to rumours, so this might be my cue to leave.

Mawduce
28-06-2015, 23:19
I'm not into overly bulky warriors in ornate armor or steroids, and I've never liked chaos, either. The minis look good, quality-wise, but are not my cup of tea thematically or aesthetically. Pass.

Here is hoping the remaining factions break out of that style.

Gotta admit that the rules will impact seriously on my desire to keep up with this or I'll leave this new game aside. I'm not into big heroes or centerpieces, and that seems to be the path GW is going to take with this new game, according to rumours, so this might be my cue to leave.

The good news is there will be other armies. There is also the proxy route. All avenues are open in that department. As a 40k player I leave Necromunda alone. So I understand.

Bishops finger
28-06-2015, 23:22
conspiracy theory!! you know I'm starting to think that GW have been sabotaged on is creative direction from the inside. People have left setting it up for a fail...purely museing on my part and ridiculous i know haha. I mean when i run down all the rumours that are proved and predicted it looks like a list of all the exact things likely to **** off its current fantasy player base...what gives!! its a nightmare and i think my phones tapped!:shifty:

The_Real_Chris
28-06-2015, 23:23
Amen.

Oh and I an a guy, and I would love some female character and minis too. And them not looking like sexbots.

I do credit Mantic for starting to work female models into their ranges (well the sci fi range) more and more without first being berated that much to do so.

Shadeseraph
28-06-2015, 23:29
The good news is there will be other armies. There is also the proxy route. All avenues are open in that department. As a 40k player I leave Necromunda alone. So I understand.

That's why I said "Here is hoping the remaining factions break out of that style". Also, assuming I neither like the remaining armies nor the rules adjust to what I'd prefer, why would I proxy anything? I'd just play something else.

Note that this is a theoretical "If". I'm not asserting I won't like the rules. I'm saying that right now, given the existing rumours, It's more likely that I won't like them than otherwise. But I still hope to be wrong.

Marauder Carl
28-06-2015, 23:33
To clarify one thing. Warseer is not even close a representing example on the preferences of the gaming community.

I'm with the others that took you to task on this little nugget. Back in the days of dial-up, when only a few people around the gaming table had internet it might have been true, but today? No. Marketing data gathered online today is just as unreliable/reliable as a mail-in survey was decades ago.

Internet communities may vary slightly in make-up, but they don't vary all that wildly. I see the conversation playing out nearly verbatim on other sites.

Since you are disposed to requesting cited examples, I was curious if you have any to share- point being, bold claims without any backing is being presented while hard evidence is asked for to refute.

The_Real_Chris
28-06-2015, 23:44
Now a new setting/new game where everyone wil make a FRESH start and be on the same level? A new game made for a younger audience? A game where new players will have to start their armies from scratch? A new game where i wont need 5 hours to play? (people in the financial services among others will understand the loooooong working hours)
You and me dont belong in this setting according to GWs plans. For sure i will try this new game since money was never the problem, time was.

GW have no mechanism to get this out to new players. They don't have an established network of players that can bring in new blood (because to be frank they aren't) - in fact they have a network of people who actively try to undermine them. Their biggest external marketing event since dawn of war advertises the wrong game. And so on. They aren't doing themselves any favours.

Your comment about time though is telling. Pretty much the only GW games I see getting played in the London clubs I go to are Epic and Bloodbowl. Two games that can be done in around a couple of hours (under for bloodbowl, over for Epic). That is turn up at the pub, have a game and chat, go home. Their high model count games just play too slowly to be practical. We all know they pushed up model count as a money making exercise. This and other actions showed they didn't want to go the route of growth any more but were content with the level the were at, thought it sustainable and moved to make more money at that level.

The subsequent market segment expansion showed they were wrong. Worse their policies (pricing is cited, but really I think their decision to consider customers as collectors not gamers and take actions contrary to fostering a good gaming community was worse) started to shrink their customer base for both their games (sorry, model collections).

Until Wednesday I was in the same boat of time not money being the problem. And that meant a good enjoyable game. If AoS is this I am in. But there are too many good games out there to give it any slack. Sadly GW game design has been poor for a long time. The last good new game they made was Epic 4th edition. Maybe they have pulled out all the stops. A lot of the old guys presumably still have stock so might have been able to help. maybe despite the idiotic comments of being a collectables company they though to play it safe they should release a good game.

But it is pretty dire that so few have any faith they are still able to.

Konrad von Carstein
28-06-2015, 23:50
Mostly positive. The knights need a slightly modified helmet, and no sculpted muscles on the chest. The rest is ok, and I quite like the shield.

CaptainOtter
29-06-2015, 00:05
Sigmarites: Not a fan. I don't think the style is unsalvageable. I don't love the Empire State Troop models, but the general low fantasy, gritty vibe of the setting is awesome. But okay, I see how GW wants a "cooler" looking main unit, something that can be a main unit for the new range. It's not the same, but it can work.

The problem is I just don't love the (blurry) pics. The masks are just ugly, and the chest pieces are are chinsy looking. The general proportions are wonky looking, and overall they don't have much personality. What can I say, my gut reaction is that these are models I don't want to buy.

Chaos:
Overall, a much more positive impression. I like how marauders are the bulk of the force, with the more elite warriors acting as support. I'm happy that they managed to take the old chaos feel and put it into this new status quo. But overall, I think the models have more potential and more personality than the Sigmarites.


I mean, it sucks that the old fantasy is gone. I love having actual units of infantry, cavalry, and war machines. Felt like real battles, but just in a fantasy setting. If we're going to get a different game, at least make it a good one.

Shandor
29-06-2015, 01:09
It just wasnt even close to profitable anymore. They needed numbers and they were not getting any. 40k is the profitable one WHF was not.i doubt WHF was profitable and just one day they said oh well, its profitable but we dont like the community so we ll scrap it. AOS is the last chance for a fantasy setting with swords etc for GW. If it doesnt work, pretty much kiss bye bye WH. If the rules are like 40k then they follow the same assumingly succesfull recipe.

I think its interesting how everyone except me knows the sales numbers from GW. My last information i had about WHF it was around 30% of the profit GW made. About a half year ago.
Sure peoples could say: If WHF would be proftiable they would not change it so much.
Thats true. But it could also be the case that GW just want more profit.

The way to get more Profit could be the way to make a Fantasy 40k with Sigmarines. But it could also fail and make less then WHF. I dont think they would just tash all fantasy Molds and everything else after all these years. If AoS fails they could also make just a 9th edition Fantasy to reduce the loss.

Xerkics
29-06-2015, 01:35
My main reaction is being pissed off that 90% of my models won't be compatible with the new system as it's entirely new scale where the humans are the size of ogres.
First look at sigmar it's thougt it was emperors thunder warriors for 30k or blood angles of some kind chaos too blurry to tell anything

defunct
29-06-2015, 01:37
Painfully generic & bland modern fantasy trite. The style of design of the knights is appalling. No character whatsoever.

Kerrahn
29-06-2015, 01:59
Not sold on the Sigmarites, except the mounted character who does look pretty cool. Normally I like 'Angel' units, but the winged guys here are kinda 'meh' to me.

Chaos, on the other hand, I definitely like. Fits right in with the newer Chaos releases (Blightkings, Wrathmongers, Skullreapers, even the slightly older Skullcrushers, Chaos Lord on foot, Chariots, Slaughterbrute etc.), and reminds me of some of the older artwork, particularly of a really huge, muscular Kurgan warrior.

Like the looks of the Character and BSB, tempted to even magnetize the feet of the BSB to mount him on a 25mm base if possible (and just use so terrain to raise him higher and give him more foot room if needed) so I can use him in my 8th Ed army if people continue to play it locally.

Overall very happy with the Chaos stuff because it would take little effort to put most of them into an 8th Ed army since they still fit right in with the aesthetics. Too bad the Sigmarites are a bit of a let-down for me, but I'm still pre-ordering the box this week regardless.

Philhelm
29-06-2015, 03:29
One of the things that people seem to be leaning to is that the change was done maliciously. That's where the real problem comes in. All we can see is how this impacts us, personally, and how dare they!

It does not bring into consideration the issues surrounding the necessity for change. Doesn't matter about GW's business style or what we think we can armchair-quarterback into a profitable earnings statement, the fact is that GW felt it was in their best interest to change the game. It wasn't done to sweep anyone's feet out from under them, as if GW had some sort of prognosticatability and decided to deliberately screw with one Herman T. Webber of 101 West 42nd St. You and I? We're ghosts. Even if they had huge feelers into the customer base, you and I are just individuals, and they cannot cater to your needs or my needs. They cater to theirs.

Games have been coming and going for a long time now. The good ones go through revisions and we have decades of enjoyment out of them. Others are here, and then gone (Clan War, VOR, Trinity - Battleground, Tribes-Rebellion, Renegade Legion ...). There is no long-term promise owed you. Carpe diem - 'sieze the day', because there are no promises. Anything else borders on narcissistic wish-listing.

I think the new models look pretty good. The Marauders look a bit chubby, but I think the Sigmar force looks amazing! I am going to have a delightful time painting these and putting them on the gaming table, and will enjoy doing so for as long a time as I have been allotted to do so.

This is another B.S. argument; it seems that people that don't mind the change are literally incapable of accurately characterizing the arguments of those who do not like the change. None of us, except maybe a small fringe, think that the changes were done maliciously (where did you even get this idea?), and I'm sure that even the most disappointed of us realize that GW would only shake things up so drastically out of financial necessity. Regardless of the reasons, or even the necessity of the change, the end result was that the rug was indeed swept from beneath our feet. That is what upsets people, not the motive. Just because GW was forced to make a **** sandwich doesn't mean that I'm going to smile as I take a bite.

As for the changes, I hope GW does well, since I have enjoyed playing their games for many years. However, GW partially created its own problem here. Rather than be open about the changes, they have let rumors and fears fester. All GW had to do was say something like:

"Our first release for Age of Sigmar is here! After the destruction of the Old World, Sigmar marshaled an angelic host, the Sigmarines, to bring battle to the Chaos gods. The Sigmarines advance to open the gate to the Mortal Realm, a hellish land where Men, Elves, Dwarves, and all mortal beings live within the foul grip of Chaos. Not to give away the results of this epic, celestial battle (wink wink), Sigmar's return to the Mortal Realm would bring new hope to all mortal creatures. During the next few months, keep an eye out for the besieged Regalians, with their glistening knights, and legions of spearmen and crossbowmen; the dour Soulmill Dwarves, who now seek to expand their holds beneath the mountains; the treacherous Skaven, who have not been idle and will bring even more devastatingly insane weapons to battle, and the Dream Elves, who always, always strike first; and let us not forget the Reptile-Men, who escaped the devastation of the Old World."

Shas'El Tael
29-06-2015, 04:05
As for the changes, I hope GW does well, since I have enjoyed playing their games for many years. However, GW partially created its own problem here. Rather than be open about the changes, they have let rumors and fears fester. All GW had to do was say something like:

"Our first release for Age of Sigmar is here! After the destruction of the Old World, Sigmar marshaled an angelic host, the Sigmarines, to bring battle to the Chaos gods. The Sigmarines advance to open the gate to the Mortal Realm,... Sigmar's return to the Mortal Realm would bring new hope to all mortal creatures. During the next few months, keep an eye out for the besieged Regalians... who escaped the devastation of the Old World."

I agree with your 'no malicious intent' sentiments and your thoughts on GW's information policy creating speculation anxiety.

Such a ficitonal intro, that you provided with intense drama, gravitas and page turning prose, would help immeasurably with the transistional nature of this whole saga. It adds parameters, definition and even scope for players to think..

..okay, so I can see my Army fighting a last stand ala End Times.. then in a new rulebook scenario (who knows?) - these angelic warriors burst forth from gateways - joining the battle, ushering in a new age of Warhammer. Tying in AoS starter and the greater scope of Warhammer as gates are opened to take the battle to Chaos wherever is boils up!

Here's to hope.

AngryAngel
29-06-2015, 05:40
It feels and looks very off to me. I don't like it much at all. That said, it looks like some of these models in the future might make great 40k additions for conversions.

Gorthaur
29-06-2015, 05:56
Painfully generic & bland modern fantasy trite. The style of design of the knights is appalling. No character whatsoever.

To be honest, space marines don't have that much character either. Sure, they do in the fluff and books...but looking at the models they are all helmeted and similar looking (tact squads). The Sigmarites look about the same in terms of character as well which is fitting seeing as how they are the fantasy equivalent. Not every army needs to be dripping with funny faces and character, thats the good thing about having several armies. I'm sure the Skaven and Orcs, and other races will still have the same level of character we are used to.

These are also just push fit starter kit models, think about how generic the models were in the older battle of macragge set etc. Things used to be a whole lot more bland than this. I'd count on a set of 5-10 sigmarites in a box later on, that are more customizable and with more options than the starter set.

mbh1127
29-06-2015, 06:02
If I ignore whose corpse these new models are walking over I would say that the new chaos could be somewhat interesting, but I'll wait for better pictures. The sigmarines look ridiculous in my eyes, their future cousins at least have some sort of power pack and exoskeleton to propel that ludicrous amount of armour forwards, and these guys look even more bulky...:wtf: Their forearms looks to be as wide as a Greatswords torso :(

to be fair, the current plastic chaos warriors look like they can barely move.

ik0ner
29-06-2015, 06:26
to be fair, the current plastic chaos warriors look like they can barely move.

That a precedent exists is not a reason to continue that particular style, but I guess that's something that only bothers me. If the current warriors and knights can barely move these guys should be d.o.a, because they look way way bulkier. But as I said in another thread, it will be interesting to hear the in world explanation.

shelfunit.
29-06-2015, 07:13
Btw do you know whats the highest expense apart from R&D for a comapny?Marketing!If GW used any marketing while as you say it would increase sales it would also increase the associated price of their miniatures. But they did say its a niche market and they know that only 1/1000 will start wargaming. Even less than that.

Odd that other companies seem to be able to do external advertising and yet their models are almost universally cheaper than GWs.


To clarify one thing. Warseer is not even close a representing example on the preferences of the gaming community.

You have absolutely nothing to back this claim up with.


Its is also the reason why many including myslef regard it as whineseer, doomseer etc. So what you see here of people becoming totally negative on the new AOS doesnt mean that the majority of the community regards it aswell. If you ask me why i m part of the forums?thats because i like seeing pics and rule leaks prio to the release and read the tactics thread for new armies. And i like a few people. But a few.

How dare people have non-positive opinions of something.


Now lets try smthing else. You say that that their sales decline and i know that already. However people mention their competitors and how they flourish. Can you get me specific numbers of players for WH40k, WHF, Mantic, Warmahordes etc?

No.


I place my head that GW dominates all of them in terms of player numbers by far. Will that continue to happen in the next 10 years?

I agree completely.


But a company with a popular IP that has even extended to PC gaming and potentially movies doubt that will easilly fall. I cant tell the future but its not all doom and gloom as people want it to be.

Outside of a few good, and many, many terrible mobile games and a truly awful animation, GW have very little to interest the market outside of tabletop gaming.


Get me the number of AOS stuff they will sell within the next three months and then we ll see who is right and who is wrong. Thats not a bet btw but i cant discuss about the doom of the company for smthing that is not even out yet.

We'll see the full effect in 6 months time when they release the half year report.


WHF is dead, the sooner people realise it the better. As i said multiple times already i have thousands of points in WHF minis but they will still remain with me along with 8th should AOS becomes a flop.

Can't disagree with that at all.

Vazalaar
29-06-2015, 07:25
I have no idea how representive Warseer is. I don't visit other Warhammer related forums. This is already time consuming enough. :D

As Shelfunit said, we will have a clear picture of AoS being a succes or a flop when the next half year report arrives. It will undeniable proof it.

I think a lot of voters on this poll, havn't touched anything Warhammer related for years and probably have no interest in GW and will never have it again... . Thus don't know how accurate the poll is, would love to see what each forum member voted. It would give me a very clear picture. :D

StygianBeach
29-06-2015, 07:49
As Shelfunit said, we will have a clear picture of AoS being a succes or a flop when the next half year report arrives. It will undeniable proof it.


Maybe it will be proof, but I think the half year reports are more of an indication of the state of 40k than anything else.

Odin
29-06-2015, 07:50
My reaction? I bought the Malifaux rulebook and am picking up a crew box today.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

DinDon
29-06-2015, 07:56
You have absolutely nothing to back this claim up with.

Number of players registered with an individual account on warseer with the number of players that play WH across the world. I for sure know at least more than 10 people that have no idea what warseer is.

Avian
29-06-2015, 08:05
216118
So it appears to have stabilized at around one quarter mostly or overwhelmingly positive, one quarter slightly positive or slightly negative, and one half mostly or overwhelmingly negative.

More surprising to me was that the stronger a person feels, the more likely it is that it's a negative feeling. I had thought there would be more people who felt overwhelmingly positive, and that the positive lot would mirror the negative.
216119



I think a lot of voters on this poll, havn't touched anything Warhammer related for years and probably have no interest in GW and will never have it again... .
[citation needed]
:p

Odin
29-06-2015, 08:33
I think its interesting how everyone except me knows the sales numbers from GW. My last information i had about WHF it was around 30% of the profit GW made. About a half year ago.
Sure peoples could say: If WHF would be proftiable they would not change it so much.
Thats true. But it could also be the case that GW just want more profit.

The way to get more Profit could be the way to make a Fantasy 40k with Sigmarines. But it could also fail and make less then WHF. I dont think they would just tash all fantasy Molds and everything else after all these years. If AoS fails they could also make just a 9th edition Fantasy to reduce the loss.
This is the problem I think. A privately owned company, as GW was, only needs tobe financially sustainable. Hell, they could even subsidise losses on one product if they value it enough.

But a publicly traded company as they are now... shareholders want their profits, and want cuts to anything that isn't making as much. They want continuous growth, and that just isn't possible.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Marauder Carl
29-06-2015, 08:36
Number of players registered with an individual account on warseer with the number of players that play WH across the world.

Sample size. Here's a calculator (http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#two). You can get surprisingly accurate results on a population of millions with relatively tiny sample sizes.


I for sure know at least more than 10 people that have no idea what warseer is.

Irrelevant unless you're polling for individuals that have heard of Warseer. Venn diagram in order...

216121

Praetor_Dragoon
29-06-2015, 08:43
216118
So it appears to have stabilized at around one quarter mostly or overwhelmingly positive, one quarter slightly positive or slightly negative, and one half mostly or overwhelmingly negative.

More surprising to me was that the stronger a person feels, the more likely it is that it's a negative feeling. I had thought there would be more people who felt overwhelmingly positive, and that the positive lot would mirror the negative.
216119



[citation needed]
:p

Words cannot describe how much I am miffled that you used blue for negative and red for positive. :P

nosebiter
29-06-2015, 08:50
This is another B.S. argument; it seems that people that don't mind the change are literally incapable of accurately characterizing the arguments of those who do not like the change. None of us, except maybe a small fringe, think that the changes were done maliciously (where did you even get this idea?), and I'm sure that even the most disappointed of us realize that GW would only shake things up so drastically out of financial necessity. Regardless of the reasons, or even the necessity of the change, the end result was that the rug was indeed swept from beneath our feet. That is what upsets people, not the motive. Just because GW was forced to make a **** sandwich doesn't mean that I'm going to smile as I take a bite.

As for the changes, I hope GW does well, since I have enjoyed playing their games for many years. However, GW partially created its own problem here. Rather than be open about the changes, they have let rumors and fears fester. All GW had to do was say something like:

"Our first release for Age of Sigmar is here! After the destruction of the Old World, Sigmar marshaled an angelic host, the Sigmarines, to bring battle to the Chaos gods. The Sigmarines advance to open the gate to the Mortal Realm, a hellish land where Men, Elves, Dwarves, and all mortal beings live within the foul grip of Chaos. Not to give away the results of this epic, celestial battle (wink wink), Sigmar's return to the Mortal Realm would bring new hope to all mortal creatures. During the next few months, keep an eye out for the besieged Regalians, with their glistening knights, and legions of spearmen and crossbowmen; the dour Soulmill Dwarves, who now seek to expand their holds beneath the mountains; the treacherous Skaven, who have not been idle and will bring even more devastatingly insane weapons to battle, and the Dream Elves, who always, always strike first; and let us not forget the Reptile-Men, who escaped the devastation of the Old World."

Uuhhmm, it is what they are doing. The blurb under the leaked photos more or less sais what you are writing. Being GW they are just keeping their secrets.

Avian
29-06-2015, 08:53
Words cannot describe how much I am miffled that you used blue for negative and red for positive. :P
Red is a warm color, blue is a cold. :p

Whirlwind
29-06-2015, 08:58
Sample size. Here's a calculator. You can get surprisingly accurate results on a population of millions with relatively tiny sample sizes.

Yes, but awareness of the potential bias in your data is also important. For example this is an English speaking forum. *If* say the majority of posters are based in the UK then there are a lot of people that have grown up with a lot of folk lore, myth and history including say King Arthur, dragons and Chivalric knights on the charge, rank and file battles etc. Hence there may be a sub-conscious bias in recreating these type of scenarios. This forum is less likely to capture other gamers views where the sub-conscious bias is different.

However assuming the poll is relatively unbiased and is a reasonable reflection of the gaming community then there would be a worrying trend for GW. Assuming the positives will buy the game, the negatives won't then the swing vote is in the 'slightly catergories'. It will probably be other factors that swing this population such as cost and gameplay. A reasonable cost/ decent game may see them buy the game but if not that is a significant fraction that will join in the 'won't buy' camp. In this scenario only about 25% of the existing WFB games buy into the Sigmarines (which if rumours are to be believed GW want to be Space Marines of Fantasy). GW would have to recruit a lot of gamers from 40k in this scenario. Unfortunately recently GW is failing both on the price and the gameplay front so the signs are not too promising at the moment.

Spiney Norman
29-06-2015, 09:01
Uuhhmm, it is what they are doing. The blurb under the leaked photos more or less sais what you are writing. Being GW they are just keeping their secrets.

Yeah, the point is they needed to put out this statement no later than a couple of weeks after the release of ET Archaon, we've known since then that warhammer was lying in the morgue, it just took them six months to organise the funeral and tell us what was happening next. When you don't tell people what is going on, they always assume the situation is worse than it really is and Gw has let that rumble on for six months.


Yes, but awareness of the potential bias in your data is also important. For example this is an English speaking forum. *If* say the majority of posters are based in the UK then there are a lot of people that have grown up with a lot of folk lore, myth and history including say King Arthur, dragons and Chivalric knights on the charge, rank and file battles etc. Hence there may be a sub-conscious bias in recreating these type of scenarios. This forum is less likely to capture other gamers views where the sub-conscious bias is different.

Bare in mind this poll only surveys existing players of the game, a high percentage of which have been deeply offended by GW cancelling wfb. It's like asking a room full of people who have just had their houses burned down if they'd like to buy a new, better house from the arsonist, even if they do actually like the new house, their judgement is likely to be coloured by the recent grudge, as people we have an incredible capacity for making illogical choices based on emotional factors. Imo this was about the most biased poll you could ever take.

Avian
29-06-2015, 09:14
Imo this was about the most biased poll you could ever take.
I strongly object to you calling the poll biased, as I spent quite some time making it as neutral and unbiased as it could get. Hopefully what you actually meant was that the voters are biased.

Vazalaar
29-06-2015, 09:17
The poll was a good idea:)

The conclusion was also well presented!;)

Whirlwind
29-06-2015, 09:18
Bare in mind this poll only surveys existing players of the game, a high percentage of which have been deeply offended by GW cancelling wfb. It's like asking a room full of people who have just had their houses burned down if they'd like to buy a new, better house from the arsonist, even if they do actually like the new house, their judgement is likely to be coloured by the recent grudge, as people we have an incredible capacity for making illogical choices based on emotional factors.

Yes quite true. However it is the only sample we have at this time. Assuming that GW continue to ignore marketing then a similar poll could be tried in the 40k and LOTR forums to cover all the known potential player base. Still it is a worrying trend; the difficulty is that the existing player base is a bank of players that you can pick up a game against. If these disappear then finding a game will be much harder which will deflate sales over time. It also limits you to playing only one of two factions and if everyone is pushed to playing only Sigmarines then the games could become very bland (again discouraging future sales)

Marauder Carl
29-06-2015, 09:24
I acknowledge the point about bias, if Warseer has a higher proportion of UK posters that participated then the correlation is stronger that the UK has a negative outlook. The more data collected from websites in [GW's] other strong markets via an identical poll, would strengthen the correlation by removing any regional biases.


Bare in mind this poll only surveys existing players of the game, a high percentage of which have been deeply offended by GW cancelling wfb. It's like asking a room full of people who have just had their houses burned down if they'd like to buy a new, better house from the arsonist, even if they do actually like the new house, their judgement is likely to be coloured by the recent grudge, as people we have an incredible capacity for making illogical choices based on emotional factors. Imo this was about the most biased poll you could ever take.

Bear in mind pre-orders are less than a week away too though.

Shas'El Tael
29-06-2015, 09:33
Regional bias? The insitgator of the poll is from Norway, I've seen Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, USA - as regular posters to this thread. Its a pretty broad spectrum of members and testament to Warseers community. I wouldn't dismiss it's regional objectivity too easily.

Add this token kiwi too. ;)

DinDon
29-06-2015, 09:39
When it comes to polling an opinion on a new game and you use as a representing sample only warseer, you theoritically exclude 99,9%(dont get me on specific %) of the population and thats outright bias. And when someone says that warseer is a representing sample of the WH population . If the sample was all the existing forums across the web then yes we would talk about a representing sample. But then we would have the issue of the same people having accounts across dif forums.

Saying that AOS will succeed or fail based on warseer only is outright stupidity. Saying that AOS will succeed or fail for the WARSEER only community, then yes you could say that.Saying that AOS will succeed based on its 6 month report after the launch, is right. But even then you cant tell the longterm future, cause policies and startegies change.

Personal opinion is that most of the strongly positive feelings come from those 100% dedicated to GW and stick to it no matter what GW does. Strongly negative feelings are expressed by the ones strongly attached to the past that feel an emotional letdown by GW and express their rage in their vote. They are also the ones that after a transition period might make a Uturn and say that they now love the new game. For me its the people in between that matter, the simply positive or negative.


Aaaaand back to work...

Greyshadow
29-06-2015, 09:40
Of course this poll is going to be mostly a reflection of what people who are members of warseer think. Goes without saying. As the good Tau warrior above says there is a real cross section of people here.

I was somewhat suprised by he results too. I thought the people here would have been much more negative as it is such a change from what we have all been investing in. Doesn't mean I think GW were wrong for making change. The Tau, for example, were a massive change for 40K when they came out but have been a great success. Not sure about Age of Sigmar though.

Marauder Carl
29-06-2015, 09:47
Regional bias? The insitgator of the poll is from Norway, I've seen Finland, Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, USA - as regular posters to this thread. Its a pretty broad spectrum of members and testament to Warseers community. I wouldn't dismiss it's regional objectivity too easily.

Add this token kiwi too. ;)

I agree 200%. I don't have much doubt otherwise. Just acknowledging their pointing out that such things exist in polling data without making any claim they are major factors in this instance. "regional bias" was merely an example.


When it comes to polling an opinion on a new game and you use as a representing sample only warseer, you theoritically exclude [a large portion] of the population and thats outright bias. And when someone says that warseer is a representing sample of the WH population. If the sample was all the existing forums across the web then yes we would talk about a representing sample.

First off, by definition, a sample always excludes a large portion of the whole. For your claim that Warseer is an unusually negatively biased sample to be true you would have to have some bona fide compelling reason (proof wouldn't hurt either) that Warseer's user base is more negatively bent than the population as a whole other than an unsupported opinion or hearsay (that's your personal bias). It's evident that is your position. I don't share it.

This isn't the same as polling individual geographical voting districts. Anyone, anywhere can create an account here. Would other forums report different results? Yes, but if you believe they would vary more than low double-digits (5-15%), that's an extraordinary claim.


Saying that AOS will succeed or fail based on warseer only is outright stupidity. Saying that AOS will succeed or fail for the WARSEER only community, then yes you could say that.

You can say poll data only from Warseer, or only another forum reflects the total population within a statistical margin far more than you give it credit for**- and it's credibility just by being a set of collected data is leagues above contrarian conjecture. An argument that data that isn't absolutely perfect invalidates it is in the realm of stupidity.


**See previously provided calculator link or a host of online articles for the validity and reliability of survey methodology and relative sample size

Praetor_Dragoon
29-06-2015, 09:57
It also needed to point out that these are "first look" reactions of photos of photos.

Whirlwind
29-06-2015, 10:02
The Tau, for example, were a massive change for 40K when they came out but have been a great success. Not sure about Age of Sigmar though.

The difference with Tau though was that they added something to 40k; both in that their fluff outlook was different (looking forwards to an 'enlightened future'); their imagery style was different (but not completely out of whack with 40k); their gameplay was different. And in the end you could take it or leave it and still 40k was there. AoS has taken WFB (which had its flaws) and thrown the baby out with bathwater. Only time will tell if the new baby is successful. In some ways I was surprised at how negative things were given the Sigmarines closeness to the Space Marines. I would have thought they would be more popular (but again noting folks bias here).

DinDon
29-06-2015, 10:05
Of course this poll is going to be mostly a reflection of what people who are members of warseer think. Goes without saying. As the good Tau warrior above says there is a real cross section of people here.

I was somewhat suprised by he results too. I thought the people here would have been much more negative as it is such a change from what we have all been investing in. Doesn't mean I think GW were wrong for making change. The Tau, for example, were a massive change for 40K when they came out but have been a great success. Not sure about Age of Sigmar though.

No no no you got me wrong there... i wasnt talking about Avian's poll. He created a poll for warseer only and that was his objective all along. I was talking about the people that use Avian's poll to generalise.

shelfunit.
29-06-2015, 10:13
Number of players registered with an individual account on warseer with the number of players that play WH across the world.

Without knowing how many players across the world there are that is completely irrelevant. Going by their financials, it's at least 25% of their paying customers.



I for sure know at least more than 10 people that have no idea what warseer is.

Anecdote. Everyone who I know who played Warhammer knows and is a member of Warseer. Very easy to assume that what you see is the whole world. It isn't.

EDIT: Note, I'm having a go at you here, just pointing out the logical fallacies, and the differences between opinion and reality.

notts
29-06-2015, 10:24
Hurraa for Whineseers vocal minority, mostly positive. This is so much better than just drop dead fantasy battles that did not sell.


how's that working out for you?!

Avian
29-06-2015, 10:33
When it comes to polling an opinion on a new game and you use as a representing sample only warseer, you theoritically exclude 99,9%(dont get me on specific %) of the population and thats outright bias.

If the sample was all the existing forums across the web then yes we would talk about a representing sample.
That's not what bias or representative samples are.

No, you can't use these as accurate figures, but unless it can be shown that the people who post on Warseer are significantly different from the existing player base in general, then you can say something about trends in gneeral. For example, the vast majority of the people who have a very strong opinion have a very strong negative opinion. It's highly unlikely that increasing the sample size will change this significantly. The total number of active players of GW games is (judging by their annual report) somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million, with FB making up some percentage of that. There's little reason to think that 300-odd people from one forum won't be reasonably representative.

But yes, this poll is about people's reactions to two images, and shouldn't be generalized too much further than that. For example, I did not ask if people thought they were going to buy the game. I intend to make more polls in the coming weeks that focus on other things.

Zywus
29-06-2015, 10:36
While this poll does of course not give a perfect representation of the entire gamer population I see no reason why the Warseer demographic would be dramatically different from any other wargaming forum. And furthermore I don't think that members of fora in general are that niche of a minority in general. This isn't the days of dial-up modems and usenet groups. More or less all people (That are potential GW customers in the first place) have an internet presence and I'd hazard that a significant portion of people playing Warhammer or any similar game do at least occationally visit some kind of forum or similar networking structure.

It is important to remember that when polling, the numbers of the people polled count for little compared to the selection. For exemple; you'd get a more accurate projection of the American presidential election if you randomly polled 100 people on the street than if you asked 1000 people at a TeaParty meeting or an Obama rally.

The selection of Warseer posters isn't perfectly representable for the entire worlds wargamers, but I don'd see it being totally off either.

Bloodknight
29-06-2015, 10:53
A fellow moderator on GW-Fanworld.de started a similar poll to see if our forum is different. GWFW has roughly 20.000 users and is one of the biggest German language forums concerned with tabletop games. However, we've got a quite 40K-centered userbase, WFB is a bit on the sidelines there. I think I'll put up the same poll on Tabletopwelt.de, a forum of similar size, which is the go-to forum for German language WHFBites. I'm interested in seeing if the different userbases have different opinions. My guess is that the 40K people are looking more favorably at the new release.

Avian
29-06-2015, 11:01
BTW: If you wonder what a biased poll is like, here's one from Dakka: [url]http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/654263.page[/url




A fellow moderator on GW-Fanworld.de started a similar poll to see if our forum is different.
Hrmf! He could have picked the same number of choices. Just sayin'. :shifty:

itcamefromthedeep
29-06-2015, 11:07
Words cannot describe how much I am miffled that you used blue for negative and red for positive. :P

Fight the power!

You do you, Avian. You do you.

---

Vocal opinions often skew negative. I'm not sure of the magnitude of the effect in this case, or other confounding factors (like reactionary positivism). Any comments on this, Avian?

In other words, I'm not sure how self-selection bias cuts here.

Marauder Carl
29-06-2015, 11:20
It also needed to point out that these are "first look" reactions of photos of photos.

Hmmmm True. Still- studies on the persistence of first impressions would indicate this first look reaction is rather significant though.

The Warseer Scientists (http://www.designzzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Quantity-Over-Time.jpg) will get to the bottom of it to be sure.

Sheena Easton
29-06-2015, 11:34
I like the Sigmarite characters but the trooops have no appeal. On the Chaos side, the Marauders look ok and the spawn / monster interesting but the rest are terrible. The warriors look more like marines (those ancient, ugly, boxy khorne berserkers to be specific) than the Sigmarites to me.

And even though we knew it was going to yet again be khorne in the box, I am still disappointed at just how lazy the designers have been for this and ET - using the most overused and tedious powers instead of the ignored, more subtle and more creative ones.

If they can finally get round to some decent Slaanesh or Tzeentch sculpts, I might get on board as I am surprisingly intrigued by the setting from the little that is known.

Voss
29-06-2015, 11:40
Serious question- how are you distinguishing between the characters and troops?

Xerkics
29-06-2015, 11:51
Serious question- how are you distinguishing between the characters and troops?

Big blob - small blob ? :p

Avian
29-06-2015, 11:59
Vocal opinions often skew negative. I'm not sure of the magnitude of the effect in this case, or other confounding factors (like reactionary positivism). Any comments on this, Avian?
Well, I went online and dug up an article from a professor W. W. Moe at the University of Maryland called 'What Influences Customers' Online Comments' (you probably need to pay to read it, unless you are connected to a university or similar) and it did bring up some interesting points:
1) more involved customers tend to skew their ratings down to stand out from the crowd, while less involved customers tend to skep their rating up to contribute to a positive consensus.
2) when there is disagreement about a product, more people tend to skew their opinions more negatively, while if people are mostly in agreement, they tend to skew more positive.
3) people tend to rate more frequently if they have a stronger opinion (either positive or negative) about a product*

So people are probably less negative than the results would indicate, but it's hard to say by how much. As an experiment, I assumed that half the people voted 1 step lower than they actually felt, and corrected accordingly. The result was still mainly negative, but less so than before.
216124




Serious question- how are you distinguishing between the characters and troops?
Well, the two lord-level characters have bigger bases than the rest, and the BSBs have these huge banners.


* no kidding, huh? ;)

Haravikk
29-06-2015, 12:08
I mostly hate it; it's meant to be a skirmish game but if the models are in fact on a larger scale then it's going to remain far too expensive for new players to buy as an entry point into the hobby.

The chaos stuff is fine I guess, but the Sigmarite faction… it's just Sanguinary Guard shoehorned badly into a fantasy setting and I'm just not comfortable with at all. If it was going to be one unit or a few characters then fine, but an entire new faction when we're losing so many that we already like? Not sold on the idea at all. In fact, if the aim here is to get away from fantasy tropes to focus on original IP, then this is the absolute worst thing to do as the look is just so… generic.

Looks like it's going to 8th edition with house rules until we see what comes next (Apocalypse for fantasy I fully expect).

DinDon
29-06-2015, 12:14
That's not what bias or representative samples are.

No, you can't use these as accurate figures, but unless it can be shown that the people who post on Warseer are significantly different from the existing player base in general, then you can say something about trends in gneeral. For example, the vast majority of the people who have a very strong opinion have a very strong negative opinion. It's highly unlikely that increasing the sample size will change this significantly. The total number of active players of GW games is (judging by their annual report) somewhere between 500,000 and 1 million, with FB making up some percentage of that. There's little reason to think that 300-odd people from one forum won't be reasonably representative.

But yes, this poll is about people's reactions to two images, and shouldn't be generalized too much further than that. For example, I did not ask if people thought they were going to buy the game. I intend to make more polls in the coming weeks that focus on other things.


Mate i did say that your poll is accurate when it comes to its purpose. Your poll gave us the % of the warseer community's perception on AOS.

I was adressing the issue of some people thinking that your poll reflects the general feeling of the wargaming community.