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GrandmasterWang
02-07-2015, 05:36
New names now confirmed.

Orcs are now Orroks and Goblins are now Grots (aka 40k gretchin)

I can deal with Orroks as in my head it is just a gutteral sounding "Ork" but my poor poor goblins :(

Goblins were so awesome... and GW goblins were my favorite goblins ever in any fantasy world (woo for squigs, night and forest goblins)

40k gretchin never appealed to me in the same way, they just didn't have the personality or the threat level.

Of all the renames this gets me the most.

GROM was one of the most successful generals ever.... I cant see a mere "grot" rising to such prominence in AOS

Skarsnik. .... a "Night Grot"?

RIP Warhammer Goblins... gone but always fondly remembered :)

Thanks for the memories

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

stroller
02-07-2015, 08:22
What GW call them is up to them. What you call them is up to you.

swordofglass
02-07-2015, 09:04
Skarsnik. .... a "Night Grot"?


I'm calling 'Gloom Grots' right now.

NatBrannigan
02-07-2015, 09:32
I wouldn't sweat it too much. My 40k army was recently renamed to "Astra Militarium". I've only heard one person refer to them by this new name instead of Imperial Guard since then. Fantasy grots will always be Goblins

Turgol
02-07-2015, 09:56
Grots is about the less bad of the new names.

I would go this way (best to worst):
-Soulblight vampires and Deathmages: surprisingly normal. Dead walkers are weird though. We now have walker in WH!
-Grots: fine by me!
-Duardin: doesn't sound too bad. Take out the steamhead part though!
-Stormcast eternals: childish, but at least not dumb
-Orruk: ok, just gutural orc. Still seems weird if you compare to just... work
-Ogors: GW is starting to go dyslexic.
-Aelf: Dyslexia getting worse!
-Seraphons: uh? Angelic lizard?

Greyshadow
02-07-2015, 10:09
/cry

A damn shame they are taking the real world history and myth out of the game and replacing it with commercially motivated names. Very uncool GW, very uncool.

hobojebus
02-07-2015, 10:18
All this because they wanted to bully companies for making extra bits for their models, losing to chapter house sent them potty.

Deadhorse
02-07-2015, 10:30
To be completely honest, the really really bad ones are steamheads and red slayers. The first one sounds like an insult, the second is extremely generic.
Seraphons is also quite weird for lizardmen. I keep thinking of sisters of battle when I hear this.

The rest are mostly misspelled versions of the correct word. Grots isn't that bad...

Also, IP law is amazing. You cannot trademark watermelons, but if you call them "watershmelons", they're yours. Bloody lawyers.

Turgol
02-07-2015, 10:33
To be completely honest, the really really bad ones are steamheads and red slayers. The first one sounds like an insult, the second is extremely generic.
Seraphons is also quite weird for lizardmen. I keep thinking of sisters of battle when I hear this.

The rest are mostly misspelled versions of the correct word. Grots isn't that bad...

Also, IP law is amazing. You cannot trademark watermelons, but if you call them "watershmelons", they're yours. Bloody lawyers.

Yeah, all this dyslexical names are originated by dumb lawyers generating an IP system which makes 0 sense.

Drakkar du Chaos
02-07-2015, 10:35
The most weird is clearly Seraphons. Just google it and you got that :

216348

Not this :

216349





Seriously GW

Spiney Norman
02-07-2015, 11:21
I think many of us will still talk about 'goblins', even 'night goblins' for years to come, screw GW and their retarded naming conventions.

I also think that since the only (somewhat ineffectual) balancing mechanic in AoS seems to be based on the number of models you take, any horde army is going to be dead as a door nail straight out of the gate. It looks very much like AoS is going to be about fielding as many of the most elite models as you have available, horde armies are going to be completely non-viable in a game system that has no way to account for the quality of troops in the game.

swordofglass
02-07-2015, 11:29
I'm surprised more people haven't commented on the fact that Seraphon was the name of Malekith's black dragon. I actually don't mind Seraphon as a name for Lizardmen. People laughing that the implied angelic sense of the word Seraphon will not work with the brutish reptilian theme of Lizardmen are probably underestimating how drastically GW will re-imagine them. They could be more lithe, otherworldly, and perhaps winged. Who knows.

Turgol
02-07-2015, 11:32
I'm surprised more people haven't commented on the fact that Seraphon was the name of Malekith's black dragon. I actually don't mind Seraphon as a name for Lizardmen. People laughing that the implied angelic sense of the word Seraphon will not work with the brutish reptilian theme of Lizardmen are probably underestimating how drastically GW will re-imagine them. They could be more lithe, otherworldly, and perhaps winged. Who knows.

Or they could be gone as well. Harry has said he knows nothing about new models for lizzies. Rumours say that success of initial factions will determine if other old factions receive new models.

Risegreymon
02-07-2015, 11:39
Games Workshop's weak attempt to safeguard their own IP is just embarrassing now.

'Orroks?' Go on, GW. Call Grimgor Ironhide an 'Orrok' right to his face. I dare you.

Bubble Ghost
02-07-2015, 11:43
"Orroks & Grots" sounds like a traditional Scottish breakfast. Inspiring

Col. Tartleton
02-07-2015, 12:13
In my head canon goblins are what humans call them and grots are what orcs call them. I quite like the word Grot so I won't complain about that. Orrok on the other hand is a bit forced.

I'd rather just have them called Orks than Orroks. It's obviously a derivative of Tolkien Uruk but its not nearly as elegant. Same with Ogor. It's not as good as Tolkien Olog. Why not just call them Ogryn? They already have that word.

In Warmachine we have Gobbers instead of Goblins but again that's a fun word to say like grot so I won't complain. Then there are the larger Bogrin which are Bugbears and that's an order of magnitude better sounding. Then there are Ogrun which isn't a bad name and they're actually fairly intelligent and sophisticated so outright calling them ogres is a bit misleading.

I don't mind the "My ______ are different." trope as long as the difference is interesting. Ork and Grot already had precedence by virtue of being part of the 40k jargon. So orrok does not sit well with me.

Kyriakin
02-07-2015, 12:24
I'm surprised more people haven't commented on the fact that Seraphon was the name of Malekith's black dragon. I actually don't mind Seraphon as a name for Lizardmen. People laughing that the implied angelic sense of the word Seraphon will not work with the brutish reptilian theme of Lizardmen are probably underestimating how drastically GW will re-imagine them. They could be more lithe, otherworldly, and perhaps winged. Who knows.
Didnt someone say they saw lizard miniatures somewhere, but not lizzies as we know them?

Greyshadow
02-07-2015, 13:50
I know this is about lawyers but I will say that I can understand how companies want to avoid being derivative and be original. For some weird reason I feel Orroks could grow on me.

Shifte
02-07-2015, 13:53
<o>

I can handle* Grots. But why on earth haven't they called them Orks and Ogryns? At least be consistent with your garbage. RECYCLE.

*Still prefer Orcs 'n Goblins.

forseer of fates
02-07-2015, 14:02
Call them goblins...I have not met anyone yet who called the imperial guard, Astra militarum.

Just Tony
02-07-2015, 14:35
"Orroks & Grots" sounds like a traditional Scottish breakfast. Inspiring

...

Sort of related, I'm now in the mood for bangers and mash.

Snake Tortoise
02-07-2015, 14:38
I wonder how far they can take this? Eventually their books are going to be written in a completely made up language and printed with invisible ink

sword > sord
dragon > draggn
chaos > kayoss

I'm starting to worry GW are actually going mad. Someone is going to visit the team one day and find an HQ that has fallen apart, bodies strewn about the room and the remaining staff gibbering insanely and gnawing on old bones

3eland
02-07-2015, 14:43
Grots is about the less bad of the new names.

I would go this way (best to worst):
-Soulblight vampires and Deathmages: surprisingly normal. Dead walkers are weird though. We now have walker in WH!
-Grots: fine by me!
-Duardin: doesn't sound too bad. Take out the steamhead part though!
-Stormcast eternals: childish, but at least not dumb
-Orruk: ok, just gutural orc. Still seems weird if you compare to just... work
-Ogors: GW is starting to go dyslexic.
-Aelf: Dyslexia getting worse!
-Seraphons: uh? Angelic lizard?

Actually Aelf is an Old English word for Elf spelled ślf.
Pretty sure Ogors was a monster in Final Fantasy vi, later named Kamui.
Orruk is some guy from Arcania.
Duardin seems so familiar for some reason.

Not very original.

daveNYC
02-07-2015, 15:12
I'm actually iffy if they could trademark (or whatever) Aelf. Ogor is pretty weak, but it's not a pre-existing word.

Dead Walkers seems dubious too.

jtrowell
02-07-2015, 15:14
I wonder how far they can take this? Eventually their books are going to be written in a completely made up language and printed with invisible ink

sword > sord
dragon > draggn
chaos > kayoss

I'm starting to worry GW are actually going mad. Someone is going to visit the team one day and find an HQ that has fallen apart, bodies strewn about the room and the remaining staff gibbering insanely and gnawing on old bones

Lol, you made me remind of this picture :

216366

Groza
02-07-2015, 15:21
I just don't understand the logic behind this.
They can't copyright goblins. Even if they name their goblins something else what is stopping people from making and selling goblin models that other people will buy and use for GW games?
It makes zero sense.

Sephillion
02-07-2015, 15:23
I just don't understand the logic behind this.
They can't copyright goblins. Even if they name their goblins something else what is stopping people from making and selling goblin models that other people will buy and use for GW games?
It makes zero sense.

In their world, people won't buy 3rd party Goblins for their Grot army.

Cynigher
02-07-2015, 15:28
Alot of miniature companies already call their Elfs, Aelfs. So are GW now copying them?

Turgol
02-07-2015, 15:28
I just don't understand the logic behind this.
They can't copyright goblins. Even if they name their goblins something else what is stopping people from making and selling goblin models that other people will buy and use for GW games?
It makes zero sense.

I'am a law professor (although continental law, not common law; and criminal law, not IP law), and I can tell you this is obviously suggested by lawyers. It seems the conclusion of the chapter house business was that IP protection is of formal nature in the gaming world. All your substantive points about other companies OBVIOUSLY copying your miniatures and names are nothing without TMs and formal arguments to back up your originality.

A company does not take these decisions based on the design department saying: hey, maybe we can beat other companies by using silly names. This decisions come from legal department advised by specialist IP lawyers. So yeah, British law seems to be dumb here.

This not mean that design department could not have come with something better. But the decision to use dyslexic names comes from legal department.

brotherAkkyshan
02-07-2015, 15:43
All this because they wanted to bully companies for making extra bits for their models, losing to chapter house sent them potty.

I think you may be more right than you think! Age of Sigma is Games Workshop throwing their toys out of the pram big style.


It makes zero sense.

In six foot letters and in Latin above the door at HQ.

Just Tony
02-07-2015, 15:46
These laws can be overly nitpicky, so I'm not surprised at the changes. Look up some of the Transformers name changes that have happened and you'll get a decent idea of how absurd it could be. Like the character Bluestreak had to be renamed because there was a toy train called the Toledo Blue Streak and the company made the case that there might be reasonable confusion between the objects to cause loss of sales. Like the average consumer could confuse a model train with a sports car that turns into a robot.

Shakkara
02-07-2015, 16:28
Orruk is actually pretty much the Dutch pronunciation variant of ork.

The_Real_Chris
02-07-2015, 16:38
I'am a law professor (although continental law, not common law; and criminal law, not IP law), and I can tell you this is obviously suggested by lawyers. It seems the conclusion of the chapter house business was that IP protection is of formal nature in the gaming world. All your substantive points about other companies OBVIOUSLY copying your miniatures and names are nothing without TMs and formal arguments to back up your originality.

A company does not take these decisions based on the design department saying: hey, maybe we can beat other companies by using silly names. This decisions come from legal department advised by specialist IP lawyers. So yeah, British law seems to be dumb here.

This not mean that design department could not have come with something better. But the decision to use dyslexic names comes from legal department.

Doesn't this just make things easier for 3rd parties?

Can't I say x,y,z parts, compatible with GW goblins. And if GW complains tell them they don't make goblins?

InstantKarma
02-07-2015, 19:01
/cry

A damn shame they are taking the real world history and myth out of the game and replacing it with commercially motivated names. Very uncool GW, very uncool.

This 100 times!

Finnigan2004
02-07-2015, 19:06
I thought this thread was going to be about the fact that since models have no point value, you might as well just field the most elite unit you can model by model. No one needs orcs or goblins anymore-- just field as many chaos knights (probably riding dragons as sorceror lords) or space marines (or whatever they're called). Throwing out the cool IP is bad, though now I can field those armies that I read about in Master Of Dragons with nothing but dragons in them and see how they do against orcs and gobbos. I'm predicting pretty well.

Turgol
02-07-2015, 19:06
Thinking about it, I LOVE the Grot name. Sounds so tricky!

The others suck mostly.

InstantKarma
02-07-2015, 19:26
Grots that worship the god Gorkamorka?

Looks like I can dust off my Rebel Grot warband! Maybe I can play AoS after all!

MusingWarboss
03-07-2015, 02:50
Grots is about the less bad of the new names.

I would go this way (best to worst):
-Soulblight vampires and Deathmages: surprisingly normal. Dead walkers are weird though. We now have walker in WH!
-Grots: fine by me!
-Duardin: doesn't sound too bad. Take out the steamhead part though!
-Stormcast eternals: childish, but at least not dumb
-Orruk: ok, just gutural orc. Still seems weird if you compare to just... work
-Ogors: GW is starting to go dyslexic.
-Aelf: Dyslexia getting worse!
-Seraphons: uh? Angelic lizard?

Are these real or is this a spoof thread? Please tell me this is a spoof thread!!!

Spell_of_Destruction
03-07-2015, 03:13
Doesn't really matter what they rename the factions, the game will still be aexpensif aes fokk.

Mr_Foulscumm
03-07-2015, 03:33
GW thinks that if they change the names from traditional Fantasy names, to new made up ones, no one will be able to make proxy miniatures for their games. Because this time they OWN the name and there by concept... you know... of Orcs, Elves and Goblins, in slightly sillier clothing.

MusingWarboss
03-07-2015, 03:46
Hmm, maybe they've been taking lessons from the "artist" Richard Prince.
http://m.huhmagazine.co.uk/3349/a-post-good-artist-creates-a-good-sculpture-or-is-it-a-book

Given they borrowed the ideas first and changed bits I don't see why people won't just do the same again. Changing the name doesn't alter the fact that it's the same thing! Look at the Astra Sillynameum.

InstantKarma
03-07-2015, 04:23
But do they really believe we'll call them something other than Elfs, Orcs or Goblins?

Skywave
03-07-2015, 04:48
I don't mind the name change so far personally. Orruks and Ologs are kinda good to me, Grots bugs me a bit only because it evoke 40k in my mind so I don't like that (Orks would have done the same thing). Aelf just looks weird, but I'll pronounce it like Elf so no biggy there.

Since they are in new worlds, I think it's kinda fitting that the denizen from there call themself or the other race something else.

On the other hand, I wonder if the Undead names are all future units or just descriptive word used in the text; Deathmages, Soulblight Vampires, Nighthaunts, Deathrattlers, Deadwalkers.

Oddly enough, the thing that annoy me the most is that they now seems to spell magic "magicks". Holy cringe that's terrible. I don't know why but "magik" or "magick" is the most horrible thing for me eyes, I really hate when it's spelled like that :mad:

Sothron
03-07-2015, 06:20
/cry

A damn shame they are taking the real world history and myth out of the game and replacing it with commercially motivated names. Very uncool GW, very uncool.

This. So much this.

I have happily bought and played so many GW products since the mid to late 80's but I'm stopping at this. Dwarfs are Dwarfs. Not Steamhead dumdums. All of these name changes and the destruction of the setting was a dagger in the back of any real fan of this IP.

samael
03-07-2015, 11:10
Orruk is actually pretty much the Dutch pronunciation variant of ork.

Only if you're from the region The Hague/Delft (Delluf) . :)

hobojebus
03-07-2015, 11:21
GW thinks that if they change the names from traditional Fantasy names, to new made up ones, no one will be able to make proxy miniatures for their games. Because this time they OWN the name and there by concept... you know... of Orcs, Elves and Goblins, in slightly sillier clothing.

Pretty much every fantasy game or book is copying Tolkien and he was drawing of pre-existing myths and stories, a dwarf is a dwarf no one's going to adopt this new name ever.

Same with elf it's so deeply embedded in the collective psyche that a thin person with pointy ears is an elf even people that have never read a fantasy book instantly know an elf from a picture.

This won't stop 3rd party companies making models for your game it just serves to annoy your customers.

BattleofLund
03-07-2015, 13:14
The most weird is clearly Seraphons. Just google it and you got that :

216348

Not this :

216349





Seriously GW

Winged little children are 'putti' or 'cherubim'. Seraphim are usually* portrayed as adult humans with wings. Seraphon (+Warhammer) leads me to Mally's dragon, which I had forgotten the name of.
*usually today, not the aberrations in ancient mythology

Althenian Armourlost
03-07-2015, 13:19
since the only (somewhat ineffectual) balancing mechanic in AoS seems to be based on the number of models you take, any horde army is going to be dead as a door nail straight out of the gate. It looks very much like AoS is going to be about fielding as many of the most elite models as you have available, horde armies are going to be completely non-viable in a game system that has no way to account for the quality of troops in the game.

I hope they do this with 40k. Wraithguard with D-scythes would make a great horde unit.

Ayin
03-07-2015, 13:45
But do they really believe we'll call them something other than Elfs, Orcs or Goblins?

Doesn't matter. Name changes are specifically to help with GW's copyright claims. New (theoretical) players coming into the game in a week or years from now will have no reason not to use the GW specific names the same way no one who started 40k in 3rd edition or later refers to Eldar as Space Elves, and the same way in five years anyone starting Imperial Guard who doesn't carry the games historical baggage will refer to them as Astra Militarum.

hagen88
03-07-2015, 14:46
What always surprised me about gw is their total lack of clue about how the names they choose for their range will sound in languages other than english.... Seraphon was one of the most laughable of the names in italian, the sound of it not menacing at all (SERAFONE?!)... It was ok when it was just a dragon amongst many, but a whole race called like that! It is true though that the majority of the names they choose sounds ridiculous in english as well (Gutrot Spume? Goremongers?)
Why can't they just think at decent names? It can't be that difficult!

Ayin
03-07-2015, 15:01
Why can't they just think at decent names? It can't be that difficult!

Really? People still expect more from GW with names? The company that made the Space Wolf Canis Wolfborn riding his Wolf-Brother Thunderwolf, one of the Fenrisian Wolves of Fenris, armed with dual Wolf Claws, with Wolf Tail Talismans and on and on and on and on?

Grimstonefire
03-07-2015, 19:05
This won't stop 3rd party companies making models for your game it just serves to annoy your customers.

Agree with this. If GW stop protecting their 8th ed IP then 3rd party companies can just swoop in and remake 8th ed suitable models entirely.

Griefbringer
03-07-2015, 20:29
Doesn't matter. Name changes are specifically to help with GW's copyright claims.

Actually, the name changes are for trademark purposes, not copyright.

While other companies might make their own original models that could be substituted for grots/orruks/sillynameums (TM), they will need to call them something else or they will find themselves hit by the trademarkhammer. And having a different name will make it more difficult for GW customers to find or recognise such models (unless they see pictures of the actual models).

Col. Tartleton
03-07-2015, 22:54
Actually, the name changes are for trademark purposes, not copyright.

While other companies might make their own original models that could be substituted for grots/orruks/sillynameums (TM), they will need to call them something else or they will find themselves hit by the trademarkhammer. And having a different name will make it more difficult for GW customers to find or recognise such models (unless they see pictures of the actual models).

"28mm Heroic Scale Goblins. Great for Warhammer. Kings of War. etc."

"What's a goblin? Is that like a grot?"

*slap*

Grimstonefire
03-07-2015, 23:22
Not that it really matters, but Chapterhouse never actually released any fantasy stuff. There are actually extremely few legal issues on the fantasy side that way that I've heard of. So this was taking the Sigmar Hammer to the molehill really.

Changing the names goblins to grots won't change anything in the marketplace imo. same alternate suppliers, same cheaper alternatives.

Vulgarsty
04-07-2015, 01:01
It's almost too idiotic for words.

Needless to say I will never use any of those silly terms - I hope nobody else does either as it rewards such a truly pathetic course of action.

As almost every fantasy player has or will be exposed to Tolkien in word or print - the notion that newbies will grow up in a world where they only know of GW "Alfs" instead of elves surely begins and ends with the naivety of GWs lawyers

It certainly wont stop the after market. I wouldn't search for Orruk parts or whatever - Who would search for "astra parts" - you'd get some old motor junk and I can't even pronounce the second bit. They are and will remain Imperial Guard (for which the Bonapartes possibly own the trademark)

I hope Alistair Crowley's estate is going to look into GW's use of "Magick"

To think I used to actually like this company. They are the Tony Blair of British Manufacturing

hobojebus
04-07-2015, 01:03
Actually, the name changes are for trademark purposes, not copyright.

While other companies might make their own original models that could be substituted for grots/orruks/sillynameums (TM), they will need to call them something else or they will find themselves hit by the trademarkhammer. And having a different name will make it more difficult for GW customers to find or recognise such models (unless they see pictures of the actual models).

No they'll look for 28mm scale dwarves now just like they did before no one's going to adopt these new names just like no one calls imperial guard the new name.

Everyone knows what an elf is even non nerds will instantly see the ears and say elf.

Sothron
04-07-2015, 20:36
Here's a crazy thought: if GW wants to trademark race names why not use the existing racial names? Like Dawi for Dwarves, Druchii for Dark Elves etc.

BattleofLund
04-07-2015, 21:34
Here's a crazy thought: if GW wants to trademark race names why not use the existing racial names? Like Dawi for Dwarves, Druchii for Dark Elves etc.

Because... actually that's a good question. Why don't they?

Bingo the Fun Monkey
04-07-2015, 21:38
I still believe the correct technical term is gobboz

Sent from my LGLS770 using Tapatalk

Voss
04-07-2015, 21:56
Not that it really matters, but Chapterhouse never actually released any fantasy stuff. There are actually extremely few legal issues on the fantasy side that way that I've heard of. So this was taking the Sigmar Hammer to the molehill really.

Changing the names goblins to grots won't change anything in the marketplace imo. same alternate suppliers, same cheaper alternatives.
You are correct on the last bit, which makes the changes even more nonsensical.

The big thing with the legal issues on the fantasy side was it was clear even to GW that they'd never had a leg to stand on in any fantasy legal battle, since so much (by far the mast majority) had existing historical, mythological or fantasy literature parallels. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you starting making claims on pegasi, hydra, goblins or even the troops of HRE princedoms. Yeah they have some proper names, and some claims on weird stuff (like the skull cannon and hurricaneum), but most of it? Getting laughed out of court would be the best they could hope for.

Athelassan
04-07-2015, 22:03
Because... actually that's a good question. Why don't they?

The people who wrote AoS probably weren't aware that such terms even existed. And I'm only half joking.

Sothron
04-07-2015, 23:15
Because... actually that's a good question. Why don't they?

I was hoping someone had a rumor or snippet to share with the answer. I am honestly flummoxed why GW wouldn't even bother to use their own IP racial terms for their own armies when they renamed them.

MusingWarboss
05-07-2015, 00:33
I was hoping someone had a rumor or snippet to share with the answer. I am honestly flummoxed why GW wouldn't even bother to use their own IP racial terms for their own armies when they renamed them.

They were probably owned by Rick Priestly or someone and they retained the rights (and probably any royalties). I can't say that's for certain but if they're having a clean break from everything then it's most likely so they retain all rights to IP and rules systems. Not sure how many fingers have been in the Warhammer pie over the decades but this is clearly a big house cleaning event for them.