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Ashim
02-07-2015, 21:50
Hi all.

I thought it might be fun to think about the tactics that can be employed in Age of Sigmar.

To get this thing started I have two ideas

1. Prosecutors throw and charge
Because of the way the phases are set up, you can move (not run) with the prosecutors within 18" of the enemy, throw the hammers, and then declare charge and attack, all in the same turn.That is 4 attack each.

2. Lightning strike + Liberators = Dead enemy Lord
The warscroll Thunderstrike brotherhood gives you a unit that can be placed 9" away from the enemy and attack the next turn. Save one of your Liberator units.
When the enemy infantry is fighting yours and the enemy lord is hiding behind them, Lightningstrike your liberator unit right behind the enemy lord and fight him ASAP.
Your liberators have the ability "Lay low the Tyrants" which gives your unit +1 to hit the target if the target has 5 or more wounds, which the enemy lord has.

What tactics do you have in mind?

Freeman
03-07-2015, 00:37
Well, I commend you for trying to open a tactical thread, but people here feel nothing but angst and desperation at the release of AoS and will fill every thread within their grasp with their betrayed tears.

Getting real tired if your whining, boys.

Anyway...

Khorne seems to rely in multiple, simultaneous charges and picking the right order for the fights (kill a weak unit out sacrifice one of your own and get the extra attack...) while the sigmarites can all deep strike (so you could begin with nothing on the table I assume?).

I don't know... without specific rules for scenarios I picture the chaos army in a big clump in the middle of the table waiting for the eternals to warp in so they can counter charge.

Geep
03-07-2015, 04:26
Khorne seems to rely in multiple, simultaneous charges and picking the right order for the fights (kill a weak unit out sacrifice one of your own and get the extra attack...)
Unfortunately for Khorne, engaging in multiple combats is bad.
By my understanding of the rules, there's no 'I strike, you strike that unit back', it's 'I pick a unit, it makes its attacks, you pick a unit, it makes its attacks'. That means that if I engage in one combat, I get to strike first. If I kill 2 of your 5 guys, that's 2 less of your guys attacking me- which is great. But if I engage in two combats, I get to choose one combat where I strike first, then you get to choose a combat to attack in.
To make this clear, let's say my units have 5 elite guys each and yours have 7 weak guys. In the first combat, you strike first and kill 2 of my guys- it's now 7 v 3 there. I now choose a combat- and clearly I'm going to choose my 5 guys- so they attacks and kill 4 of your weak guys. It's now 3 v 5 there. You only have 3 guys left to attack with.
By engaging in the second combat, you've handed me initiative, and I beat the snot out of your unit because of it. You would have been better off engaging once each turn, over two turns.

duffybear1988
03-07-2015, 18:50
Wrong forum

Lulz

I plan to have a full game on Saturday if their site doesn't crash and I can get the warscrolls. If the scrolls allow it then I'm taking 1 unit of 40 Kislevite kossars (counts as Empire huntsmen), a boyar (counts as Empire captain), 6 winged lancers (counts as Empire knights) and 5 ungol horsemen (counts as Bretonnian mounted squires). I figure that's relatively balanced for a first game and should be a reasonable indicator of how the game is going to play. I'm already thinking that large units of archers/ranged troops are going to be slightly too powerful and if it is scenario based them some cavalry is always worthwhile.

Nicreap
03-07-2015, 22:17
I don't have much to offer at the moment, but once the warscrolls come out, I will be glad to discuss tactics with you here on the forum, with only a handful of models, and no clue how they relate to any other armies, it's challenging to discuss the tactics. One thing to note though, deep striking liberators means they have to roll a 10 on their charge to make it into combat, so it may be a slightly delayed counter attack, also there was mention that the sigmarites with two handed weapons do 2 wounds on a to wound roll of 6+, so if they also get the +1 to hit, sending them in instead of the liberators may be a better alternative.

stonehorse
04-07-2015, 01:48
One turn win combo that has already been spotted

screaming bell + Kairos Fateweaver.

Kairos: once per game change a roll to a result of your choice.

Screaming Bell: Roll 2D6 on a chart of effects. On a 13 you win.

Sexiest_hero
04-07-2015, 02:13
Can't roll a 13 on 2d6, or is there a special rule I'm missing?

Nicreap
04-07-2015, 02:19
Can't roll a 13 on 2d6, or is there a special rule I'm missing?

Nope, can't roll a 13, it's a joke, just like if Settra the imperishable is your general and you kneel at any point in the game, you lose, because settra does not kneel.

babyberg31
04-07-2015, 03:56
One turn win combo that has already been spotted

screaming bell + Kairos Fateweaver.

Kairos: once per game change a roll to a result of your choice.

Screaming Bell: Roll 2D6 on a chart of effects. On a 13 you win.


Can't roll a 13 on 2d6, or is there a special rule I'm missing?

And the specific rule of the bell also says: You cannot modify this very roll.

Althenian Armourlost
04-07-2015, 04:14
From the sound of it, the most effective tactic in Age of Sigmar will be to employ a fat wallet to fill your entire deployment zone with the most elite units you can get your hands on.

Really? Are you serious?
I'm a 40k player and so AoS has passed over my head, but I get the impression this game's core mechanism is making the boxes for elite troops really, really pricey (and restricted availability to induce panic-buying and eBay scalping) and then completely throwing balance out of the window, and it boils down to this:
Poor player = 20 crossbowmen for 40 quid
Rich player = 20 individual character limited edition armoured ubermen in specific combination for 350 quid

They have made magic miniatures, haven't they?

stonehorse
04-07-2015, 08:41
And the specific rule of the bell also says: You cannot modify this very roll.

Choosing a result isn't the same as a modify to the roll. Yes 13 can't be rolled on two D6, nor can 1, or 523234248... however Fateweavers ability is to just choose a result, it isn't limited or bound by what can be rolled.

Overtninja
04-07-2015, 09:11
let's be honest though - if you are playing an opponent who actually tries to pull this on you in any sort of game - why the hell are you playing that guy? the worst thing about this hobby is the conceit that being forced to play with awful people is completely normal and expected. what's wrong with your gaming clubs that this would even happen? why haven't you shunned these people so hard they can physically feel it, like a thousand slaps to their face? seriously, guys, come on.

DinDon
04-07-2015, 13:27
Can we please get rid of the many many trolls from here so that people that are interested in AOS post their tactics etc?Didnt you have enough boohoo already?

On the topic, the khorne rules seem very fun to me, the whole sacrifice thing for an extra attack is very well themed/berserkerish.

Nicreap
04-07-2015, 14:45
I am really unsure of how GW intends this game to be played, many units from 8th, get bonuses for being in blocks of 20 or 30+ but at the same time, that is likely to trigger a sudden death scenario, unless your opponent brings along so many models as well.

Lord Dan
04-07-2015, 15:11
A number of off-topic posts removed.

There a several threads wherein you can voice your frustration with AoS, gentlemen. Any further passive aggressive comments in this thread will be treated as trolling.

=][=

Coyote81
04-07-2015, 15:43
Choosing a result isn't the same as a modify to the roll. Yes 13 can't be rolled on two D6, nor can 1, or 523234248... however Fateweavers ability is to just choose a result, it isn't limited or bound by what can be rolled.

You are absolutely right, he does just get to choose the result, but you are also wrong, he choose the result of the die roll, not the result he wants on the screaming bell table. You get to choose the die results, 1-12 and then compare to the table. just like if you used the ability on a critical to wound roll, you don't choose the result "wounded" you choose the die roll number, in this case most likely a 6, and then you see if if wounds your target.

This combo myth has been busted.


Now for a real tactic.

I noticed that the high Elf lothern Sea Helm on Skycutter gives flying units the ability to charge even if they ran that turn. Combine this with a Woodelf shadowdancer who can give any unit double move and gains flying. Now you can take a ground unit, move it twice it's normal speed, run and still charge that turn, effectively getting exactly where you need to be to assassinate key units, high ranged units well before they are in position. The tactics are numerous.

Seriqolm
04-07-2015, 20:25
Warriors of Chaos


If Archaon uses his command ability all other Chaos units with a command ability can use their ability immediately in any order. Chaos Lord's ability is to summon a unit with the Slave to Darkness keyword (which is basically all WoC units) every Hero phase. Include a BSB Exalted hero and all slave to Darkness units within 20" get +2 to bravery. Summon 100 chaos warriors per hero phase (implausible but doable, lol)


There's probably more with all command abilities being usable each hero phase.

PeG
04-07-2015, 20:58
and nothing prevents you from taking more than one chaos lord. So your entire list could be something like Archaon + BSB + 10 chaos lords on foot. in your first turn you should summon on avarage 5 units of unlimited size that appear 5 inches away from any side of the board. Since you only have 12 models you are also likely to get a sudden death opportunity. Not sure what this has to do with tactics though.

From what I have seen so far AoS is about list building and once the game has started you have limited possibilities to have any impact on the outcome with the possible exception of target priortization for shooting units and the possibility to suicide your melee units by spreading them out across the board. Not having the ability to flank, rear charge and the randomness to running etc makes it difficult to use a lot of tactics during the actual game.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
04-07-2015, 21:06
2 x 20 Khorne warriors with 5 Khorne heroes behind them = 7 attacks per normal model

RainSong
04-07-2015, 22:10
Looking through the wood elf rules... nothing too exciting so far. You can summon a unit of 5 Hunting Hounds as an extra spell for all 'wanderer' casters, which is quite nice. They can also be chosen as a unit separate without having Orion, although he does buff them if nearby.

Naestra and Arahan on a dragon look pretty tanky: 12 wounds, can regen them every turn on a roll of 2, 4, or 6. Dragon causes enemies within 3" to attack last.


Anyone else noticed some models have upgrades that it would be stupid not to take? Like a mounted spellweaver can have a move of 14" instead of 6" and gain extra attacks... Why don't they just put that as the main profile?

Mandragola
05-07-2015, 00:00
I think I quite like the rules. Haven't tried it yet.

If you want army composition rules then make them up. I think the thing this needs is some kind of rules on composition, because clearly it's stupid if you just field heroes.

I think I'd suggest you need 2 other units per hero taken. Or one hero per unit if you'd prefer a more hero-hammer feel.

Then to get around the weirdness of model count you clearly need to do something like multiply the numbers. So every unit should count for roughly the same, because it seems like that's how they've "balanced" it. 5 knights are roughly equivalent to 10 halberdiers or one captain - or something like that.

I sort of admire GW for ditching points, since they have so heroically failed to balance points costs in the past. This just takes away any illusion of balance, which there's never actually been in any GW game system I've played.

Nicreap
05-07-2015, 00:11
Anyone else noticed some models have upgrades that it would be stupid not to take? Like a mounted spellweaver can have a move of 14" instead of 6" and gain extra attacks... Why don't they just put that as the main profile?

Do you have said model? GW has rules for just about any variation of a model, so unless everything is magnetized or you are making a new army you may not have a choice.

bobix
05-07-2015, 01:33
2 units in line separated by 2", the first one tanky the second one damaging. when the first one get charged you can use a 3" move to engage the enemy with the second one !

Vertumne
05-07-2015, 07:29
Skaven clanrats in units consisting of 30 or more models and equipped with hand weapons hit and wound on 3+ :evilgrin:

Mandragola
05-07-2015, 11:12
Skaven clanrats in units consisting of 30 or more models and equipped with hand weapons hit and wound on 3+ :evilgrin:

Yeah zombies are the same. Big units of these guys are scary. Only problem is the model count rules.

Chikout
05-07-2015, 11:44
So these rules do have their flaws and some kind of balancing is needed but saying there are no tactics involved in this game is nonsense. Since players take turns to fight in close combat ganging up on units becomes critically important. If I charge two of my units at two of his, I gain no advantage but if I charge two units at one of his. He cannot attack one of my units at all. This in turn makes movement important I as I want to make this possible, while preventing the other player from doing the same to me.

Shooting matters. As a unit can move in any direction, a unit can move backwards and shoot in the same turn forcing a close combat unit to run to get in charge range. Since run move distance is random, this may make the other army lose shape giving me the opportunity to gang up. There are many other things to consider and I wish command abilities were once a game, as this would add another layer. Of course I could just put down one building and call it a day.

Yamabushi
05-07-2015, 13:05
Looking at skellie warriors... I can't see the benefits of Tomb Shields over Crypt Shields. Can anyone shed some light?

redshylock
05-07-2015, 13:35
I am going to try 4 x20 Night Goblin Fanatic setting up normally.

Mandragola
05-07-2015, 14:21
Looking at skellie warriors... I can't see the benefits of Tomb Shields over Crypt Shields. Can anyone shed some light?

I think it might play out ok. To be honest you could argue that neither one is amazing. It's only giving you a 5+ save at best. One does nothing if the enemy has any rend and the other has a severe penalty for use.

If you're in a position where you're not going to be able to charge, and running would just make it easier for your opponent to do so, then sometimes you're better off keeping your distance and castling up with your tomb shields, I suppose. Then, if the enemy charges you, you're a bit tougher. Once you're in combat you won't be charging or running so the shields keep working.

I've got a feeling that swords are better than spears for skellies but I'm not sure. Spears become slightly better if you're fighting in 3 ranks and have a hero nearby. The rest of the time I think swords do more damage.

NatBrannigan
05-07-2015, 14:24
Looking through the rules for my Lizardmen it looks like the biggest challenge is going to be trying NOT to win... All the wizards can summon any unit they like (as long as you already have a similar unit on the table) each turn... So my one Steagadon could become 4 after one turn if I take my normal three spell casters. I get what people are saying about this game working if you just don't act like a douche... but to make it work you have to actively restrain yourself from winning throughout. For me this is easy to do when selecting an army but no fun to do while playing the game itself...

Alas, I've played a couple of times now and it's just not for me

fishound7
06-07-2015, 00:11
I just played a 62 model AoS list . I personally like playing fluffy demon lists. mono TZ is what I like to play

This is what i brought

LoC
20 ph fcmd
10 ph fcmd
10 ph fcmd
5 flamers
6 screamers
6 screamers
herald on foot
herald on a disc
herald on flying chariot

So.. I was using the Daemon Cohort of Tzeentch

So I wasn't even really trying to summon and by turn 2 i had 5 Loc's on the table and summoned 24 additional screamers on top of the 12 i had. Umm crazy?!?!

fishound7
06-07-2015, 00:19
so in that list i had Boon of Tz and used cmd ability: Beacon of Sorcery, I used arcane tomes from heralds to summon 2 Loc's.

So I get additional casting from Daemon Cohort of Tzeentch

So Ph puts shields on greater. I think shields can stack since it doesn't say they can't.
I have 4 attempts at getting a new LoC if i want on a 9+. Or summoning other crap. This summoning seems like a blatant grab at money and it kinda breaks the game. Am I doing anything wrong?

fishound7
06-07-2015, 00:20
Also it doesn't say i can't cast spells with summoned units so... just says they can't move. I mean it can become infinite theoretically.

Nicreap
06-07-2015, 00:55
Also it doesn't say i can't cast spells with summoned units so... just says they can't move. I mean it can become infinite theoretically.

I'm just impressed you actually own 5 LoC's

fishound7
06-07-2015, 01:44
I was playing on universal battle. You can have infinite

Nicreap
06-07-2015, 02:12
That's cool, I didn't even think of going on Universal battle to try out Age of sigmar

babyberg31
06-07-2015, 03:27
I just played a 62 model AoS list . I personally like playing fluffy demon lists. mono TZ is what I like to play

This is what i brought

LoC
20 ph fcmd
10 ph fcmd
10 ph fcmd
5 flamers
6 screamers
6 screamers
herald on foot
herald on a disc
herald on flying chariot

So.. I was using the Daemon Cohort of Tzeentch

So I wasn't even really trying to summon and by turn 2 i had 5 Loc's on the table and summoned 24 additional screamers on top of the 12 i had. Umm crazy?!?!

Regarding the magic phase and summoning ability, I've thought of something.

Let's drop the ''usual'' invocation. Invocation is now only a ''healing'' spell which will restore D3 Wounds to a already available unit, restoring models which were slain earlier. It can never give you more models than you had at start. Monsters and Heros only heal 1 Wo with this power. Dead heros cannot be brought back to life.

This way, we can lower the crazy invocation rate which seems a little bit silly at the moment.

fishound7
06-07-2015, 05:37
ya somethin has to be done. I was thinking thou. With a summoning list you might want to get sudden death and then just go for Endure. you'll throw SO MUch trashy roadblocks that he can't table your starting list.

.

isthatnew?
06-07-2015, 07:43
Do you have said model? GW has rules for just about any variation of a model, so unless everything is magnetized or you are making a new army you may not have a choice.

When did fantasy ever have a WYSIWYG rule? There were many options in the game that don't have models. Can you link me to a Nurgle Lord palanquin kit?

CrownAxe
06-07-2015, 07:54
That's not even the worst of it. A Herald of Tzeentch can just summon another Herald of Tzeentch practically infinity times. Just use Arcane Tome so Summon Herald of Tzeentch's 5 to cast is on 3d6 giving you a 98% success rate. Then the new Herald just repeats the process. The worst part is when ever you roll a 9+ (which on 3d6 is pretty likely) you get to cast a 2nd time which can be another summon spell which should be a Disc Herald so that you have another Ancient Tome to summon another Foot Herald in case you do manage to fail the 98% success rate but can also be Mystic Shield or Arcane Bolt.

hypocrite
06-07-2015, 07:59
Stormfiends seems patently ridiculous. Oger profiles with more wounds and much better guns. Even a min unit with flamers is doling out 6d3 automatic mortal wounds worth of shooting and 12 multi damage attacks every turn. Factor in their moulder unit classification and you can have a pack master pushing them up to bravery 12 with some added accuracy and threat for kicks and giggles. For extra fun you can include Throt to give them a bonus combat phase each turn.

fishound7
06-07-2015, 08:32
If you have a lot of casters you can stack mystic shield on one unit and basically make something invulnerable to normal dmg just not mortal wounds.

mhsellwood
06-07-2015, 08:36
For summoning I would insist that a model be physically present and be a reasonable analogue (i.e. ultraforge daemons yes, blank MDF base no) otherwise it is not playable.

Some strategies and or cool stuff:

- Zombies. Big units are 3+/3+. Little units can amalgamate into big units. Every turn every unit gets d6 models back. You can summon units and they have a low cast value. Field multiple small units and summon more little units as you move across the board (multiple small units because they all restore d6 models per turn). When you are nearly on the enemy join up into one big blob and be a better fighter than most other units in the game!
- Dwarfs. Use units with shields to absorb charges and then counter charge with great weapon units, which is now easily done. Ungrim Ironfist and the Slayer army - Slayers receive buffs just being close to Ungrim. Gyrocopters in actual units and the Brimstone Gun is good, and so are Gyrobombers actually.
- Chaff units. Spread them out and use the 3" barrier to protect important units. Get around enemy units to prevent retreat. Block Line of Sight. Charge a shooting unit, but get only one model into .5" and the rest just hang around within 3" of the enemy unit. Most shooting units have their shooting reduced if enemy units are within 3" and if they pile in to sort you out in hand to hand you have pulled them out of position - win win. If the archers retreat they cannot shoot for a turn and you can rinse and repeat.
- Dark Elf slave machine. Lokhir Fellheart, Black Ark Fleetmaster, Corsairs, Harpies, Kharybdiss. Lots of battleshock tests, negatives to the tests, and additional losses if battle shock tests failed.

- General. Flanking still works. If your opponent is in a long line then there will be models at one end who are not able to get close enough to attack back at least in the first round or two. Less attacks suffered = more convincing victory. If they go block to reduce the flanking negative they will still have some units who cannot get close enough to attack, and this will also happen against attacks from the front. No combat res bonus but a more in game reward for flanking.
- General. Use retreating to allow counter charges, to prevent rounds of combat that you don't want to have happen, to move to support another combat (particularly for Skaven who can retreat and charge in the same turn), to allow the unit to charge again (most cavalry units with lances are actually better off against infantry charging for two rounds of combat than standing and fighting for three, but not advisable against enemy cavalry as they will follow and charge you and get the lance bonus)
- Tactical wound allocation. When removing models that have been killed the player suffering the casualties chooses the models to remove. So, remove ranged models who have no line of sight. Remove models that would not be in range to make their attacks anyway. Remove models that are blocking you making a counter charge. Remove models that may be visible (or just closer) to a second enemy unit. Remove models close to the enemy in a unit you plan to retreat with, or that may prevent you retreating.
- General. You are better off concentrating on a single unit, or a small number. The battle shock test's variable is casualties, and it removes whole models. If you can kill 3 models in a single unit that is better than 1 model in three units (against bravery 6, 3 wounds against one unit has a 50% chance of removing at least one model. 1 wound against 3 units has a ~21% chance of removing at least one model. Chances of removing three models are heavily weighted in favour of 3 casualties on 1 unit)
- Summoning. If someone plays the summoning game and they do not get instant death, remember that unless they wipe you out then the model count method is used to determine victory, and that it is the starting number of models deployed that counts. So if they start with 60 models, and at battles end have 40 models and you have inflicted 60 casualties they will have suffered 100% casualties.
- Deployment. Put down a small dwarf unit. Put down a second dwarf unit. Put down a Runesmith. Then, when your opponent thinks you are going to be deploying a dwarf army and is deploying to counter that, deploy an all mounted Empire army.

- Personal opinion. Agree limitations, army selection rules, what is cool and acceptable and what is not, prior to actually playing the game. Doesn't really matter how you limit it just that you make sure both parties agree. Or, get a Games Master for the game like what was expected in 1st edition to 3rd edition.

fishound7
06-07-2015, 08:37
I think reducing table size could help with the balance. If you could even balance the game...

cptcosmic
06-07-2015, 09:05
flying model on telescopic stand, bases do not count and model is in the deployment zone 12 inches away which is totally legit.

pull out the warscroll and say you are done. if you opponent takes two more models you have just autowon with Endure Sudden Death. if not, it will be a draw, never lose again :)

oh, dont forget to make photos of the face expressions and the gaming table, then post it everywhere you can with the hashtag #GWSTUPID

cptcosmic
06-07-2015, 14:28
flying model on telescopic stand, bases do not count and model is in the deployment zone 12 inches away which is totally legit.

pull out the warscroll and say you are done. if you opponent takes two more models you have just autowon with Endure Sudden Death. if not, it will be a draw, never lose again :)

oh, dont forget to make photos of the face expressions and the gaming table, then post it everywhere you can with the hashtag #GWSTUPID

or here is another cool idea:
archers modelled as to be "jumping" really high
wizards modelled to be sitting on clouds or magic carpets several inches above the ground

no melee only unit can touch them, since you ahve to get 1/2 inch withing the model for a succesful charge.

Overtninja
06-07-2015, 16:40
flying model on telescopic stand, bases do not count and model is in the deployment zone 12 inches away which is totally legit.

pull out the warscroll and say you are done. if you opponent takes two more models you have just autowon with Endure Sudden Death. if not, it will be a draw, never lose again :)

oh, dont forget to make photos of the face expressions and the gaming table, then post it everywhere you can with the hashtag #GWSTUPID

Make sure you take a picture of your own face when everyone at that gaming club agrees not to play you ever again, resulting in you having to find another place to play.

Overtninja
06-07-2015, 16:44
or here is another cool idea:
archers modelled as to be "jumping" really high
wizards modelled to be sitting on clouds or magic carpets several inches above the ground

no melee only unit can touch them, since you ahve to get 1/2 inch withing the model for a succesful charge.

ranged units and spells will murder all those units, they have no ability to hide anywhere on the field. Also, same thing applies to what I stated above - modeling for advantage in such an obvious way makes you That Guy, and is a great way to end up with a lot of models that you can't play with because no one will play you. I guess if that's worth a few cheap wins, go for it. :p

ik0ner
06-07-2015, 17:25
...Since players take turns to fight in close combat ganging up on units becomes critically important. If I charge two of my units at two of his, I gain no advantage but if I charge two units at one of his. He cannot attack one of my units at all. This in turn makes movement important I as I want to make this possible, while preventing the other player from doing the same to me.

What makes you think that 1 unit cannot attack 2 different units during 1 phase?

HJFudge
06-07-2015, 17:48
What makes you think that 1 unit cannot attack 2 different units during 1 phase?

It can, but the pile in rule is toward the closest enemy model...so if you can manage it and hit an enemy unit on two opposite sides, you basically ensure that each of your unit is only taking HALF the possible damage it would if it had charged separately. Since he must basically split his force and split his damage while you can focus fire. Its a major advantage.

Nicreap
06-07-2015, 17:51
What makes you think that 1 unit cannot attack 2 different units during 1 phase?
I agree with this statement, the rules state you can divy up attacks as you wish. Hell, it states if your model has multiple attacks a single model can swing into multiple units, so long as it can see them.

Yamabushi
06-07-2015, 22:29
Just so many ways to get auto hits since there is no "1 is an auto fail" rule. Empire State Troop formation using 3 units of handgunners and greatswords, with Empire general can replicate it. Tomb King skellies near the King with My Will Be Done already hits on 2+ ... All I have to do is deploy my skellies in formations of 20x2....or porcupine blocks of handgunners to blast everything away.

rolly_321
07-07-2015, 02:07
I noticed empire actually gets particularly ridiculous. A block of 20 crossbows and 40 swordsmen with a captain parked between them can throw out 40 shots hitting and wounding on 3s then the swordsmen can hit automatically in combat (4+ with a +3 bonus to hitting from having 40 troops and another +1 for the general).

A lot of the actually basic troops will slaughter elite infantry when taken in large groups because they get huge benefits that basically turn them from low grade infantry into a huge deathstar.

hypocrite
07-07-2015, 02:49
Just so many ways to get auto hits since there is no "1 is an auto fail" rule. Empire State Troop formation using 3 units of handgunners and greatswords, with Empire general can replicate it. Tomb King skellies near the King with My Will Be Done already hits on 2+ ... All I have to do is deploy my skellies in formations of 20x2....or porcupine blocks of handgunners to blast everything away.

You can add Stormfiends to that list. Doomflayer gauntlets hit on a 3+ base and get +1 to that roll during a turn in which they charge. Pack master's can throw and additional plus one on top of that. Each rat should net a bit over five wounds with rend mitigating most saves.

Nobody's really straining to find broken interactions here Xerkics, this stuff just kind of jumps out. Especially when the entries are literally back to back in the pdfs.

rolly_321
07-07-2015, 05:48
I'll still be playing for one very simple reason, I collect the miniatures because I really enjoy painting them. The fact that I can ocassionally play a game with those models (I still like to collect armies coz they look better in a display cabient than a random collection) then it's always a positive.

While some of these combo are ridiculously OP I think most of the tactics in AoS will be based around unit synergy and the hero phase to turn combats.

duffybear1988
08-07-2015, 00:54
Well my mate wants to try it out on Friday before he completely writes it off as a no hoper. We're restricting it to 1 battalion + 2 extra warscrolls to keep it as fair as we can get. Maximum is about 80 minis each.

I've decided to take the Dwarf warmachine battalion - 2 cannons, 1 grudge thrower and an engineer. Plus a unit of 60 peasant bowmen with braziers, stakes, a banner and a relic. My final warscroll will be a mounted paladin BSB so I get the extra bravery and +1 to hit with all those longbows.

He's bringing his beastmen army plus chariots. I figured that I'll probably destroy him in turn 1 or get wiped out myself.

fishound7
08-07-2015, 01:43
Deployment is king.

Forget about building a list. FORGET about building a list. That was 8th. 8th is gone now. Play the deployment phase as written on the rules of AoS. Start with single drops I can give a detailed explanation if asked about hopefully it will be obvious. If your playing with the list mentality or thinking AoS is anything remotely like 8th in having a predetermined "For sure" idea of what your going to play, your wrong and will probably end up having a bad gaming experience. in each deployment drop you should be trying to counter your opponents deployment drop or trying to go for a battalion thing at the end of your warscrolls. The game is very fluid now. DO NOT JUST BRING A LIST. Have a semi idea of what you want to play but be Extremely reactive if your opponent starts deploying your counter.Or do whatever you want i don't care.

Instead of building a toolbelt list to handle any situation like in 8th. You build a toolbelt collection.

Its all about the deployment phase and countering what players are placing. Its a call and answer deployment game now. Single drops are extremely important in the beginning of the game. You start by building your backfield support early. Wizards are extremely powerful due to free casting and mystic shielding. Find a unit with a decent save 5+ or 4+. Stack mystic shielding on the unit. That unit will become invulnerable to normal dmg(almost all warmachine damage) due to 1+ save and shove it down the opponents throat or take midfield advantage. 1's are not automatic failures anymore and 6's are not automatic wounds. Depending you may want to stack mystic shielding on a missile unit so they can counter kill warmachines safely. Warmachines are the BANE to your characters. Warmachines will dictate how you move with your characters. I'm used to this because I played with Greater demons a lot, this applies to all characters now. You can't get into range of warmachines with your characters until they are dealt with or they have mystic shield support.

There are massive advantages to being the numerical disadvantage in the deployment phase.

Your first drops should be your warmachines, characters and Monsters. Figure out the tricks for your faction to get sudden death wins easily. TK trick for example take a single tomb swarm or a single carrion as your first drop. Place it at the back table edge. Next place 5 or 6 single drop wizards, then place whatever ideally starting with lower model count units/singles. End your deployment earlier then your opponent. You claim first turn. You stack mystic shield on carrion or tomb swarm which is starting on your table edge, it gets 1+ save from mystic shield buffing wizaards and 2nd turn barrow into the ground. Pick sudden death endure. Your setting up an auto lose scenario for your opponent if he goes past 33% of your model count. Cost for your opponent to not to be a douche basically, 1 drop. Which can be used to hunt warmachines/wizards later if he doesn't go over 33%. lizardmen can do the same thing with camo skinks. Your probably going to take 4 to 6 wizards anyway. 4 to 6 wizards will probably become the standard now in AoS due to mystic shield stacking and the importance of mortal wounds. The tactical use of 4+ wizards is just over the top. Most wizards are also super squishy. I suspect that all factions have some type of cheesy sudden death victory condition they could do. This is how the game balances out. The game can get as big and dumb as you want but both players should figure out their respective easy instant sudden death victory conditions. The person that finishes early gets first turn. First Turn IS HUGE in AoS. Other player gets 33% to counter his first turn stuff/potential losses for not having first turn. In addition the first turn person will have all his mystic shield buff's up on the other players turn and gets a free shot at his stuff when he doesn't have his shield buff going on.This seems kinda fair ish.

drop 4+ wizards near your board edge. This will keep the majority of the warmachine shooting away from your weak support wizards/characters. Very few warmachines have the reach to shoot 48 inches. Warmachine damage out put has increased but range has dropped. This is intentional. Like monsters the damage output of warmachines drop as the more damage they take. Use fast like units to reduce incoming (character killing) missile fire from opponents missile units. Missile units can play midfield which are a threat to your characters. Support midfield units with arcane shielding since the Range is Long enough to 18". Here is where the interaction messyness starts==> MIDFIELD. Its a race to kill the wizards and weak support stuff while surviving the onslaught of midfield shooting. Which units should I shoot? Which units should I stack mystic shielding on?

Mystic Shielding is BY Far one of the Most powerful spells and is overlooked

sephiroth87
08-07-2015, 15:21
Fishound7,

First, I just wanted to say that your analysis is likely spot on.

Second, I hate the idea of metagaming around the sudden death rule. I think it's a terrible game mechanic that will make age of sigmar look and feel completely stupid. Worst of all, their deployment mechanic actually discourages the second player taking what models they want to take. First player drops a monster, you have to counter with a one model unit. Otherwise, player 1 calls for sudden death and their monster wins.

They wanted a game where people could just plop down their collections on the table. What they have is one player dictating what's going to be played in the game.

The only real counter to the early sudden death declaration is dropping your entire model collection on the table after the opponent declares sudden death to have overwhelming firepower to wipe the first player off the board in a turn or two. Which is just as mind-bogglingly stupid of a mechanic as an army made up of one carrion model or a piece of terrain (BEWARE THE DREAD GAZEBO).



You talked about "cost of being a douche," but I think it's just as bad to throw down a unit passive-aggressively so as to penalize them prematurely for their potential douchiness. I may want to play with 10 night goblins that I wanted to play, but I may never get to if the opponent decides that they want to play their army another way. They may only own two units of ironguts, which wrecks most of my basic goblin troops. Still kills the game. We have this idea about "just don't be a terrible person" to balance this game, but your version of balanced and mine are sometimes different. I personally think balanced is "few repeated units, big units of basic troops, with a scattering of monsters, war machines, and heroes." But I know people who think taking 6 giants would be a fun game. Neither are bad, but it's not even close to being balanced. With good friends it doesn't matter. But with pickup games (which is the only option a lot of us have some weeks if our friends don't come to the store/house), we'll have very different versions of balanced.

I guess dumping down your entire army after sudden death is a tactic, just as much as gaming the sudden death rule. So there's my contribution to the tactics thread. Again, I'm not attacking you, just pointing out a systemic issue in the game.

Red Skullz
08-07-2015, 20:58
I played my first game today, massive lists and honestly a bit unwieldy being the first game and all but it was a great learning process. I played O&G 169 wounds list vs Khorne mortals 124 wounds.

For those interested in my impressions from that game. https://bigbossredskullz.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/age-of-sigmar-first-game-impressions/

RainSong
09-07-2015, 00:10
Do you have said model? GW has rules for just about any variation of a model, so unless everything is magnetized or you are making a new army you may not have a choice.

My mistake actually on that specific warscroll. It was for adding a steed to a wood elf spellweaver, so models would clearly be different. Although I guess you would always want the steed option, as long as you have an old model to use (none in the current range are mounted).

Geep
11-07-2015, 18:33
Not really a tactic, but still suits many other ideas given here:
The game only defines a D6 as a six-sided dice. It says nothing about the facings. It's perfectly fine to break out the black marker, create a die of all 6's and all 7's, and win with the Screaming Bell that way :p

From games I've watched others play-
Take large units of models. Deploy them in small groups, spread far apart. They will still be within 1" of a model from their unit while paired, and still gain all of the benefits of belonging to a big unit. Best of all, they all activate at once- so can lay down a lot of hurt very efficiently to many different enemy units.

When in combat, models move 3" towards the closest enemy unit. Charge an enemy unit with something tough, and place your softer but more damaging units within 5-6" of the charged enemy (make sure to be closer than the actually engaged unit). When it comes to alternating activations, attack with your tough unit. When the enemy consolidates the will end up within 3" of your more damage-oriented units, but should be out of range to hurt them- so their attacks will be squandered on the tough unit. Now that your damage-oriented units are within 3", they can consolidate in and cause some hurt, with no danger of return attacks.


Forget about building a list... Instead of building a toolbelt list to handle any situation like in 8th. You build a toolbelt collection.
It's great how I can have my entire collection on hand at any given game. This style of play is completely reasonable. I'm not at all frustrated that my preferred units should be ignored so that I can simply, mindlessly, respond to my opponent (in short, I agree with Sephiroth87 above). I admire your optimism in trying to pull something out of this quagmire Fishound7, but I struggle to think of an army building system I'd hate more.

philbrad2
13-07-2015, 16:12
First and last warning this is a tactic thread and that's the discussion, its not a whine thread about AoS.

PhilB
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Red Skullz
13-07-2015, 17:13
Thank you philbrad! :)

forseer of fates
15-07-2015, 02:41
Has anyone discussed stacking mystic shield on a unit, any decent unit with a 4+ save, bring along a few wizards and suddenly everyone has 1+ saves. Since there are no rules for such events, oh dear, does that mean said unit is immune to damage? since there is no rule saying 1s is always a fail....crazy.

hopkins
15-07-2015, 11:39
Has anyone discussed stacking mystic shield on a unit, any decent unit with a 4+ save, bring along a few wizards and suddenly everyone has 1+ saves. Since there are no rules for such events, oh dear, does that mean said unit is immune to damage? since there is no rule saying 1s is always a fail....crazy.

not immune to mortal wounds though

forseer of fates
15-07-2015, 13:02
Indeed but hardly anything causes those.

DarKolia
15-07-2015, 17:27
You take the high elf dragon horde battalion and add an asuryan on an eagle chariot...

Then combining their abilities you get a 25" average charge dealing around 80 wounds!... for 4 models (so you get the special tactics... why not trying to kill a model/unit...)

Enjoy! (if you can)

PS: this game is a travesty...
PPS: of course if your are facing Nagash castled inside a Mortach/Terrorgheist hosts... thing may be going to be more interesting...

Konovalev
15-07-2015, 17:58
Has anyone discussed stacking mystic shield on a unit, any decent unit with a 4+ save, bring along a few wizards and suddenly everyone has 1+ saves. Since there are no rules for such events, oh dear, does that mean said unit is immune to damage? since there is no rule saying 1s is always a fail....crazy.

I suppose in that situation it pays to have fast/flying units that can target the wizards. While it may be distasteful to have a unit virtually immune to damage, in practice it changes little: You have a unit which is not worth fighting head on, a unit which is best either tarpitted, or avoided entirely.

march10k
16-07-2015, 01:16
Well, having watched a couple of games at my LGS, I'm willing to give it a try. It seems that summoning is broken, and will have to be addressed in some way, but other than that and the question of balance in initial army lists, it seems ok. Speaking of which, my LGS, which happens to be a GW store, already has house rules to try to address that. It's not perfect, but they balance games by requiring an equal number of wounds on each side...Obviously, not all one wound models are created equal, but it's a step in the right direction.

I think I'm going to run a greatsword blender. The state troops detachment essentially makes them hit on 2+, which is improved to 1+ by the inclusion of a hurricanum. Add in a wildform caster to make them wound on 2+, and a priest to let them reroll that, and you're basically putting out two automatic wounds per model at -1 rending.

Ayin
16-07-2015, 02:53
When in combat, models move 3" towards the closest enemy unit. Charge an enemy unit with something tough, and place your softer but more damaging units within 5-6" of the charged enemy (make sure to be closer than the actually engaged unit). When it comes to alternating activations, attack with your tough unit. When the enemy consolidates the will end up within 3" of your more damage-oriented units, but should be out of range to hurt them- so their attacks will be squandered on the tough unit. Now that your damage-oriented units are within 3", they can consolidate in and cause some hurt, with no danger of return attacks.


My brain kind of hurts considering using this idea at anything other than a small game and the amount of precise, individual model movement and TIME it would take.


Also, Geep, when are you going to 'OriginalIP-Uprgrade!' those army names in your sig?

WarsmithGarathor94
16-07-2015, 15:57
How are Daemons looking under these rules?

Its Jack
16-07-2015, 18:20
I've been running a Nurgle Daemon list with Blight Kings, they do alright. Don't underestimate the Icon on units, I had it go off 4 times in my last game with a minimum unit of Plaguebearers. That unit must have had something like 25 models throughout the game, it was really crazy.

roperpg
16-07-2015, 19:18
From games I've watched others play-
Take large units of models. Deploy them in small groups, spread far apart. They will still be within 1" of a model from their unit while paired, and still gain all of the benefits of belonging to a big unit. Best of all, they all activate at once- so can lay down a lot of hurt very efficiently to many different enemy units.

"A unit must be set up and finish any sort of move as a single group of models". So this isn't allowed, unfortunately.



When in combat, models move 3" towards the closest enemy unit. Charge an enemy unit with something tough, and place your softer but more damaging units within 5-6" of the charged enemy (make sure to be closer than the actually engaged unit). When it comes to alternating activations, attack with your tough unit. When the enemy consolidates the will end up within 3" of your more damage-oriented units, but should be out of range to hurt them- so their attacks will be squandered on the tough unit. Now that your damage-oriented units are within 3", they can consolidate in and cause some hurt, with no danger of return attacks.

Pile-in is triggered by units, but models move toward the closest model, not the closest model in the closest unit, which is an important distinction (and one that can be abused both ways!)
Models aren't required to pile-in, though, it's optional.

Andy p
16-07-2015, 20:31
Tzeentch seems to get a lot of mortal wounds causing spells and abilities, combined with bonuses to cast from sources like the Blue scribes and the LOC's brilliant ability to swap the lowest dice rolls on a casting roll for the highest means spells are quite reliable, although it depends on who is casting, but even heralds are pretty good.

However I'm only at theory here, I still have yet to find someone who wants to play.

march10k
17-07-2015, 01:42
All of the summoning armies seem pretty prone to abuse...beastmen can spam mountain chimeras till the cows come home, blue scribes can summon more blue scribes, wash rinse repeat in the same phase, and Nagash can poop out half a dozen units per turn...if it's beasts, undead, or chaos, beware of cheese. I am thinking about a non-summoning undead list, though...just because it'd be a shame not to field my morghasts.

/edit/ Anyone else think dark elves should be forces of destruction?

Kisanis
17-07-2015, 02:59
Its ok, the elves hugged it out.

Anyone play with faction rules?

Im planning on adding some marauder calv to my skaven via historical models. I thonk it will patch a hole in their list nicely.

My brets are going to be a hodgepodge of my good collection. Brets, high elves, and whatever else seems fun.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

Ayin
17-07-2015, 03:12
Its ok, the elves hugged it out.

Dude, that was thousands of years ago in a different world and I'm not even sure the elves of AoS share a lineage with those from Fantasy :)





Im planning on adding some marauder calv to my skaven via historical models. I thonk it will patch a hole in their list nicely.


A friend of mine used some Regiments of Renown in 6th for Skaven cav and was a big fan of what he thought they brought to the army.

Keryso
22-07-2015, 20:47
All of the summoning armies seem pretty prone to abuse...beastmen can spam mountain chimeras till the cows come home, blue scribes can summon more blue scribes, wash rinse repeat in the same phase, and Nagash can poop out half a dozen units per turn...if it's beasts, undead, or chaos, beware of cheese. I am thinking about a non-summoning undead list, though...just because it'd be a shame not to field my morghasts.

/edit/ Anyone else think dark elves should be forces of destruction?

So i just finished a game of AoS today where i used summoning... and it lost me the game. Summoned a total of 50 horrors and only 11 died, however these deaths count for death count. So when we did our percentage losses at the end of the game i lost 75% and my enemy lost 73%. Meaning he got a minor victory.

On another note, summoning one unit of 40 horrors and then firing 40 shots into a unit is hilarious, just seeing your opponents face as their one mega unit gets drowned in dice is hilarious.

Ayin
22-07-2015, 21:06
So i just finished a game of AoS today where i used summoning... and it lost me the game. Summoned a total of 50 horrors and only 11 died, however these deaths count for death count. So when we did our percentage losses at the end of the game i lost 75% and my enemy lost 73%. Meaning he got a minor victory.


Didn't have time to play the game all the way through?

madden
22-07-2015, 21:18
Check your spells they have a limit on the amount you summon in the case of horrors its max 10.

Keryso
23-07-2015, 00:38
Didn't have time to play the game all the way through?
Nah. the it was time for the gw store to close :( And i was winning QQ


Check your spells they have a limit on the amount you summon in the case of horrors its max 10.

We were using the rules from the New book. And in there i used the legions of chaos rule, which if my general is alive i can use it. I roll a dice and depending on what i roll i get to summon x number of units. These not having a max and being able to only summon 1 unit i decided to drown my opponent in horrors.

madden
23-07-2015, 14:25
Fair nough keryso havent read the new book so didnt know of that ability.

Overtninja
23-07-2015, 16:50
Summoning is a double-edged sword - if you're not going to gain a serious advantage by summoning a unit (i.e. kill more than you lose), it's not going to be worth it in most cases.

Ulfrik
23-07-2015, 18:32
Can't roll a 13 on 2d6, or is there a special rule I'm missing?

I can

I just happen to have a 'D6' that's numbered 7 to 12

Ayin
23-07-2015, 19:55
Nah. the it was time for the gw store to close :( And i was winning QQ


I actually remember in 8th there was some real rage at the suggestion by some players that Skaven, with steadfast re-rollable slave blocks (among other things) could easily ensure max 4 turn games in tournaments due to time restrictions and effectively stall their way to wins by taking out a few choice enemy targets before the game ends. People were generally up in arms at the idea of using a 'game ends before it should' play strategy as an incredibly cheap and un-fulfilling way to win.

Now the idea of 'well, you can do that if you want but I'll probably win a Minor Victory because don't have time to play all the way through!' seems to be pretty commonly accepted.

Strange times.

Vos
24-07-2015, 10:49
Building a 100 wound - ish Wood Elf AoS army and thinking about tactics. I have regular, 'sensible' opponents.
I was thinking of fielding 3 units of 12 glade guard and a couple of units of cavalry (10 models each) - (one sisters of thorn and one wild riders) and topping off the army with a couple of spellsingers, a lord and a treeman.
My tactic will be to shoot the s*** out of the enemy as they advance and then use the treeman and sisters to counter charge once he hits my bow line. The sisters will sit on a flank and try to skirmish, but should be tough enough to look after themselves if they are caught. The spellsingers job will be to keep bringing back dead wild riders and/or glade guard in the central line.

Does this sound reasonable as a 'default' plan and as a reasonably balanced list?

Vos

Keryso
24-07-2015, 10:57
Building a 100 wound - ish Wood Elf AoS army and thinking about tactics. I have regular, 'sensible' opponents.
I was thinking of fielding 3 units of 12 glade guard and a couple of units of cavalry (10 models each) - (one sisters of thorn and one wild riders) and topping off the army with a couple of spellsingers, a lord and a treeman.
My tactic will be to shoot the s*** out of the enemy as they advance and then use the treeman and sisters to counter charge once he hits my bow line. The sisters will sit on a flank and try to skirmish, but should be tough enough to look after themselves if they are caught. The spellsingers job will be to keep bringing back dead wild riders and/or glade guard in the central line.

Does this sound reasonable as a 'default' plan and as a reasonably balanced list?

Vos

Does sound interesting, i don't play welves but i can see how this list could work. Which version of the treeman will you be using?

N1AK
24-07-2015, 11:51
Does this sound reasonable as a 'default' plan and as a reasonably balanced list?

Vos

It's a mixed force, certainly not optimised, and should look good on the table; but it's impossible to know what is fair/balanced list in AoS. You basically can't know until you compare the two forces directly, or you're playing someone regularly and both 'know' about the right balance.

Vos
24-07-2015, 19:18
I will use the 'normal' treemen but have the option of fielding durthu as well/instead of if the other side wants to field something nasty too.
I have some wardancers and dryads and will be buying some glade riders soon to add to the force soon to give me choice variety and the option to play bigger games.

We don't bother with optimising as if you go down that road, you end up fielding nagash with his vampire gang.... Not my idea of a fun wargame. Would much rather play a reasonably balanced game and tune the army over time (if it wins too much, tone it down a little, if it loses too much, optimise it a bit more. Like you say its hard to know as most armies have only been fielded once or twice using the new rules.

Vos

some_scrub
26-07-2015, 03:11
Building a 100 wound - ish Wood Elf AoS army and thinking about tactics. I have regular, 'sensible' opponents.
I was thinking of fielding 3 units of 12 glade guard and a couple of units of cavalry (10 models each) - (one sisters of thorn and one wild riders) and topping off the army with a couple of spellsingers, a lord and a treeman.
My tactic will be to shoot the s*** out of the enemy as they advance and then use the treeman and sisters to counter charge once he hits my bow line. The sisters will sit on a flank and try to skirmish, but should be tough enough to look after themselves if they are caught. The spellsingers job will be to keep bringing back dead wild riders and/or glade guard in the central line.

Does this sound reasonable as a 'default' plan and as a reasonably balanced list?

Vos

That sounds like a solid and reasonably balanced list, based on the few games I've had with my wood elves in AoS. I have a few suggestions though:

The first is to combine the archers into 2 units, one large and one small, say 24 and 12. This gives you a good chance at getting the +1 to hit buff from the Glade Guard, which is really quite valuable, especially in conjunction with the Glade Lord's bonus. Also having a smaller number of units makes it easier to keep all your archers in range of the Glade Lord's bonus from his command ability. If your unit gets knocked just under 20 guys, the Spell Weaver's resurrection spell is fairly easy to cast and can get you back up to 20 (although it's normally pretty weak unless you're using on units of multiwound Wanderer models like warhawk riders, wild riders and sisters of the thorn.)

The second thing I wanted to point out is that in Age of Sigmar, you don't really want to use the treeman to countercharge 'once he hits your bow line'... you can actually run him out there and pin down opposing units well before they get to your archers and hold them up while you shoot into them. Treemen are already pretty tough to kill for most things that don't have a good rend value, but with some magic support they go crazy. A single casting of mystic shield gives them a 2+ save. If you're not playing with a houserule that 1's always fail, the sisters of the thorn can combine with the spellweaver to get them to a 1+ pretty reliably, but there's something even more awesome: Mystic Shield + Shield of Thorns on a Treeman is pretty insane. Mystic shield gives you +1 to the save rolls (rather than 'improving your save value by one) so you're doing a ton of mortal wounds.

Djekar
26-07-2015, 13:16
So, as far as tactics go, I've really been considering unit formations recently. As in, what actual shape to put my models in on the table. Yesterday I had a giant kill 30 miners because he crab walked sideways into their "flank" - they had been set up in two "ranks", which limited their attacks back at him until he could deal with them. It made me consider running my units in a circular formation to minimize the chances of that happening to me.

Nicreap
26-07-2015, 15:41
So, as far as tactics go, I've really been considering unit formations recently. As in, what actual shape to put my models in on the table. Yesterday I had a giant kill 30 miners because he crab walked sideways into their "flank" - they had been set up in two "ranks", which limited their attacks back at him until he could deal with them. It made me consider running my units in a circular formation to minimize the chances of that happening to me.

What you should have done was remove the models closest to the giant as casualties dropping you out of combat then your next turn have the unit turn and charge in so you can bring the entire unit to bear.

Kisanis
26-07-2015, 17:38
What you should have done was remove the models closest to the giant as casualties dropping you out of combat then your next turn have the unit turn and charge in so you can bring the entire unit to bear.
Ive learned that casualty removal is a key part of managing combat for the counter attack in AoS

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

Djekar
26-07-2015, 19:24
Good call. I hadn't thought of that. I will point out that the giant was mine, but it did make me think.

Attilla
26-07-2015, 22:02
What you should have done was remove the models closest to the giant as casualties dropping you out of combat then your next turn have the unit turn and charge in so you can bring the entire unit to bear.
Nice tactic right there, one of the little things that's easy to miss in the heat of it.

scruffyryan
27-07-2015, 07:51
Can't roll a 13 on 2d6, or is there a special rule I'm missing?

Dunno about a special rule but they've already interviewed one of the staffers who admitted that the combo works, was intentional, and you probably wouldn't get many opponents if you used it.

bottom paragraph (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/gw-answers-age-of-sigmar-questions.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29&m=1)

MOMUS
27-07-2015, 12:54
I've been thinking a lot about how troops fight and dragging an opponent in one direction or another by pulling causalties.

Aside form that I think if you're clever single model units can be 'corralled' with infantry, if you are selective with pile in moves.

Vos
27-07-2015, 17:38
Thanks some_scrub - the 'get the monsters forward' to pin the enemy in place so your gun line can do its work is genius. Counter intuitive to other wargames rules where you can't fire into combat!
It's so skaven-esque ! :)
I'm sure I would have thought of it eventually but you've probably saved me 4 or 5 games of being trashed there!

Vos

RattrapKilo
28-07-2015, 06:50
Played a few games with Skaven and found these tactics to be totally dirty and effective.

Assassin spam: hide multiple assassins in a fast moving unit and charge desired target (Nagesh). With the reveal rules you could reveal 2 3 4 5 or as many as you wish at the same time to brutalize whatever you want. Bonus fluffy d bag points if you use this to win a sudden death victory.

Sudden Death denial: use a warp grinder to keep your hero who is targeted for death off the table. Due to the rules you don't have to try and come on the table until you wish. Wait til after turn 4 and tunnel in. This is pure skaven cowardice at its finest.

Poison Bell Pushers: an actual non d bag tactic. Make a tight unit of poison wind globadiers behind a Screaming Bell to give it extra move, and give them cover. The Bell will protect them from LoS and due to their special rule they can still fire at enemies in range even though they can't see. Also can help add some punch if the Bell gets caught in melee with something fierce. In theory this would work with the furnace too, but beware the globes lack the nurgle tag and will have to make the fumes check.

Tunnel Strike: Attach a warp grinder to all of your units and Deepstrike your entire force. There is no auto lose for having 0 models on the table. (Anyone feel free to correct me on that. My friend and I didn't find anything saying otherwise on the matter)

Still learning and play testing the rules so not 100% all of these are legitimate. Also I would really only use the first two when playing power gamers. While they are within the rules if I read correctly they still feel pretty cheap to do.

mhsellwood
28-07-2015, 07:57
Played a few games with Skaven and found these tactics to be totally dirty and effective.

Assassin spam: hide multiple assassins in a fast moving unit and charge desired target (Nagesh). With the reveal rules you could reveal 2 3 4 5 or as many as you wish at the same time to brutalize whatever you want. Bonus fluffy d bag points if you use this to win a sudden death victory.

Yes. Remember though that if the unit is destroyed before you reveal the assassin is destroyed as well, and you must write down what unit you are hiding in at the start of the game, so if you have a unit making a bee line for an assassinate target your opponent will probably go all out to destroy it.


Sudden Death denial: use a warp grinder to keep your hero who is targeted for death off the table. Due to the rules you don't have to try and come on the table until you wish. Wait til after turn 4 and tunnel in. This is pure skaven cowardice at its finest.

Qualified no. There is no time limit on the game and Assassinate does not require a unit to still be alive after a given point in time - you merely need to kill it before the end of the game. This can create an infinite game paradox - all of your models killed except the assassinate target are dead, you refuse to tunnel in, your opponent insists that more turns must be played. Also, your opponent gets to choose their sudden death condition so against Skaven assassinate is probably the worst possible choice.


Poison Bell Pushers: an actual non d bag tactic. Make a tight unit of poison wind globadiers behind a Screaming Bell to give it extra move, and give them cover. The Bell will protect them from LoS and due to their special rule they can still fire at enemies in range even though they can't see. Also can help add some punch if the Bell gets caught in melee with something fierce. In theory this would work with the furnace too, but beware the globes lack the nurgle tag and will have to make the fumes check.

Yes - I think the poison wind globadiers in general are a fantastic unit now and bring some interesting tactical options with their no Line of Sight rule.


Tunnel Strike: Attach a warp grinder to all of your units and Deepstrike your entire force. There is no auto lose for having 0 models on the table. (Anyone feel free to correct me on that. My friend and I didn't find anything saying otherwise on the matter)

Yes. Remember that if you chose to tunnel everybody in your opponent will get to make a Sudden Death choice.

Overall I believe within the rules, bit sneaky and sly so perfect Skaven tactics really!

RattrapKilo
28-07-2015, 15:52
@mhsellwood Good critique on my skaven tactics (tricks). Completely right about the assassin bomb, even if you manage to get into charge range you could still snake eyes the roll. It truly is an all or nothing move, especially if the enemy can bring superior fire down on you if you miss the charge.

Also glad to see someone else with some hopes for the globes. With all of the rats large units and no rules from firing into melee you could hide them behind all kinds of things, especially things that start will Hell and end with abomination.

Another thing I noticed after reading the demons too is the Tally of nurgle. All of the plague units have the nurgle tag, and count for the tally bonus. I'll have to double check the wording again but if you're squaring off against a nurgle player using Epidimus, might wanna weigh the costs of placing plague units as you may be feeding your opponent buffs. Ofcourse you'll get them too so could just be good fun for all. Yay for chaos rats!