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Drakkar du Chaos
05-07-2015, 20:02
We've seen "why it suck", "how GW should have made it" but how AoS could have been worse ?

Ramius4
05-07-2015, 20:03
They could have charged money for the rules.

SteveW
05-07-2015, 20:06
The rules could have been three pages instead of four.

Hoffa
05-07-2015, 20:31
There could have been a collectors edition of the 4 pages rules.

MiyamatoMusashi
05-07-2015, 20:43
They could have sent "Dear Warhammer fans, **** you" as the announcement email.

Sthenio
05-07-2015, 20:52
Matt Ward presents: Dreadfleet 2nd edition.

In Finecast.

Kyriakin
05-07-2015, 20:55
As I said on the other thread, Slaanesh rule where you both have to pull down your pants and compare the sizes of your todgers to get +1 to hit or something.

Forgeworld fimir rules could end up even worse...

Lord Inquisitor
05-07-2015, 20:58
You could resolve combat by firing catapults at each others' miniatures.

taurus-marstein
05-07-2015, 20:59
They could have made all of our old models useless.

duffybear1988
05-07-2015, 21:00
They could have made all of our old models useless.

Give them time - we still have to see if the new units become deliberately OP over the next year. ;)

taurus-marstein
05-07-2015, 21:02
How can you be OP when theres no points?

"Special rule: Your sigmarine jump pack guys can pick one enemy unit and poo on them. They all flee."

Shandor
05-07-2015, 21:04
They could have an Expansion pack for Aos every month.

Or the Sigmarines be just the normal Space Marines to play them in both games like Deamons.

taurus-marstein
05-07-2015, 21:09
They could have combined fantasy with 40k and we'd have to fight the real space marines.

skerrigan
05-07-2015, 21:10
They could've rereleased WFRP with this background.

costa
05-07-2015, 21:10
They could have sent to all of us an email like "that's your warscroll and rules, loser. **** you nerd get a life"

duffybear1988
05-07-2015, 21:18
How can you be OP when theres no points?

"Special rule: Your sigmarine jump pack guys can pick one enemy unit and poo on them. They all flee."

Imagine a unit of bloodthirster level infantry that costs 1 warscroll.

taurus-marstein
05-07-2015, 21:25
"Costs"? What cost? The only balancing factor is dollar bills...

Avian
05-07-2015, 22:07
Stuff which could have been worse:
- Models must be on round/oval bases. In two years this is changed to pentagonal bases.
- Rules are compatible with 40K. Crossover is encouraged. 40K models still cost points, however.
- Once one player is finished deploying, the other player can deploy ONE more unit.
- Bigger triumph bonus for winning your last battle.
- Forced humor in the basic rules too (tell a story about a model to allow it to re-roll one dice).
- Movement rates abandoned for 40K style fixed rates.
- Table of random terrain, none of which does anything.
- Melee range measured from weapon to closest vital organ of the target.
- Hero phase after Battleshock phase (magic actually used to be the last phase).
- A model's wounds is equal to the number of skulls on the model.
- Put dead models on the side and leave them there until after the battle.
- Rolling attacks for multiple models at once is explicitly forbidden.
- No victory conditions. The only way to win Age of Sigmar is not to play.

Haravikk
05-07-2015, 22:48
They could have clarified everything to the degree that the detractors seem to be demanding, in which case the rulebook would be a barely comprehensible 3,000 page mess and there'd still be mistakes and exploits anyway. Before people say "but I was happy with 8th", please don't lie, we had tons of whining about that edition too, it's the same every time :)

Cynigher
05-07-2015, 23:00
The next update will be Spiky Sigmarines, then we'll have some Grey ones that really don't like Daemons, then there'll be the Green broody ones. We wont get red bloody thirsty ones as lets face it, we've already got them with blue.

I don't like the special rules with the do this to your opponent, for example stare longingly into his eyes and if he looks back **** him with your medusa. But at least they fixed monster mounts. My Dark elf lords on manticore and dragon just became more than a good looking model.

Avian
05-07-2015, 23:05
They could have clarified everything to the degree that the detractors seem to be demanding, in which case the rulebook would be 70 pages long, like the Warmachine and Hordes rulebooks are.
Fixed that for you. ;)

Shandor
05-07-2015, 23:12
They could have clarified everything to the degree that the detractors seem to be demanding, in which case the rulebook would be a barely comprehensible 3,000 page mess and there'd still be mistakes and exploits anyway. Before people say "but I was happy with 8th", please don't lie, we had tons of whining about that edition too, it's the same every time :)

I dont lie if i say i liked the 8th Edition. Bought 3 Armys in that time and had alot fun with it. And now i need to find others to play the 8th edition or sell my Armys on Ebay because GW dont allow me to play it in thier Store anymore.
But every Edition even the First would be better then no Game after all. Aos isnt a Game ists an Aprils fool joke without April.

TheFang
05-07-2015, 23:20
They could have clarified everything to the degree that the detractors seem to be demanding,

How do you set up a balanced game? Not even mentioned.

This is what should have been released as a first draft for comments. To my mind the entire project could not have been more poorly executed. They've had a brief to get the game on a four page pull out and they've massively borked it.

big squig
06-07-2015, 00:44
They could have dropped dice and measuring as well...

"move models as far as you want! Make pew pew noises and remove enemy models! No turns!"

Vedar
06-07-2015, 00:47
Well about 6th month ago 40K broke it's back in my group. I was hoping this might look good. It did until I found there was no way to balance it. AoS is DOA unless they do something else with it. No way I can convince anyone to play this.

taurus-marstein
06-07-2015, 00:54
"During the combat phase, take turns selecting as many enemy models as you want and remove them, regardless of whether they are in combat or not"

Lord Dan
06-07-2015, 00:54
If GW held a press conference on the shortcomings of AoS, I feel like "It could have been worse" would be their opening line.

AngryAngel
06-07-2015, 01:27
How can you be OP when theres no points?

"Special rule: Your sigmarine jump pack guys can pick one enemy unit and poo on them. They all flee."

Somehow, I'm sure they did just that, I believe in them.


"Costs"? What cost? The only balancing factor is dollar bills...

Which is the ideal balancing factor for all games, right ?


Stuff which could have been worse:
- Models must be on round/oval bases. In two years this is changed to pentagonal bases.
- Rules are compatible with 40K. Crossover is encouraged. 40K models still cost points, however.
- Once one player is finished deploying, the other player can deploy ONE more unit.
- Bigger triumph bonus for winning your last battle.
- Forced humor in the basic rules too (tell a story about a model to allow it to re-roll one dice).
- Movement rates abandoned for 40K style fixed rates.
- Table of random terrain, none of which does anything.
- Melee range measured from weapon to closest vital organ of the target.
- Hero phase after Battleshock phase (magic actually used to be the last phase).
- A model's wounds is equal to the number of skulls on the model.
- Put dead models on the side and leave them there until after the battle.
- Rolling attacks for multiple models at once is explicitly forbidden.
- No victory conditions. The only way to win Age of Sigmar is not to play.

I don't know, they sound like real good ideas, perhaps GW already has them planned for later this year.


They could have clarified everything to the degree that the detractors seem to be demanding, in which case the rulebook would be a barely comprehensible 3,000 page mess and there'd still be mistakes and exploits anyway. Before people say "but I was happy with 8th", please don't lie, we had tons of whining about that edition too, it's the same every time :)

I liked 8th and had enjoyed fantasy from 6th on, oh well everything has to stop sometime.


If GW held a press conference on the shortcomings of AoS, I feel like "It could have been worse" would be their opening line.

I think it would be more like, " We delivered on many promises, and launched the most innovative game of our time " something like that, they'd never, ever admit they humped the bunk.

Khaines Wrath
06-07-2015, 01:47
I concur that it could have been worse if they charged us for the rules. I thought that was refreshingly generous but they would really want to muster up any kind of good will at this point.

AngryAngel
06-07-2015, 01:53
Could you imagine if they charged for these rules ? The rage would been so great it would have blotted out the sun, for good reason.

Khaines Wrath
06-07-2015, 01:56
Hence my choice of it could have been worse. If I had to pay over $100 for a new rule book and this is what I got... I cant even imagine myself that angry.

Mr_Foulscumm
06-07-2015, 02:20
They could have sent "Dear Warhammer fans, **** you" as the announcement email.

Would that really have been worse? At least it would have been honest. :)

3eland
06-07-2015, 02:26
They could have dropped Fantasy, it's models and anything else entirely and just supported Warhammer 40k.

Drakkar du Chaos
06-07-2015, 02:28
They could have dropped Fantasy, it's models and anything else entirely and just supported Warhammer 40k.

Im not sure if its worse.

AngryAngel
06-07-2015, 02:30
If people hate the game, they pretty much have done that. Only difference is the models will be available for awhile still but if they are going to be phasing them out anyways, its simply on a count down till the models people used are tossed. If you just played in a GW store, and they now or soon begin to tell people not to play 8th ed or earlier in the store, haven't they pretty much killed it for some ?

3eland
06-07-2015, 02:38
Well I am still building my armies up. So being able to still purchase models is a pretty big thing. Especially since some are direct only and stores tend to not want to carry those.

Mr_Foulscumm
06-07-2015, 03:23
They could have dropped Fantasy, it's models and anything else entirely and just supported Warhammer 40k.
This one is also an improvement :(

Mr_Foulscumm
06-07-2015, 03:28
If people hate the game, they pretty much have done that. Only difference is the models will be available for awhile still but if they are going to be phasing them out anyways, its simply on a count down till the models people used are tossed. If you just played in a GW store, and they now or soon begin to tell people not to play 8th ed or earlier in the store, haven't they pretty much killed it for some ?

I was thinking about this today. Earlier I was quite pleased that the old minis are still available. Just so I could finish some units and such. But then I got to thinking about it... I really don't want to give more money to those jokers, I might as well start a new hobby project straight away with that money. So that's what I'm gonna do.

So maybe this was the perfect release after all.

Lord Inquisitor
06-07-2015, 04:49
- Movement rates abandoned for 40K style fixed rates.
Dunno at least that has a decent mechanic for difficult terrain.


- A model's wounds is equal to the number of skulls on the model.
LOL!


Hence my choice of it could have been worse. If I had to pay over $100 for a new rule book and this is what I got... I cant even imagine myself that angry.
Eh. I just would have ignored AoS altogether. This way I will at least give it a go for a few games.

Now what I'm expecting is a "Age of Sigmar Tournament Rules" expansion with all the points values in that you have to buy for an extortionate price. Like giving you a car to sit in and admire the upholstery and then hard selling you the engine.

GrandmasterWang
06-07-2015, 04:53
They could have invalidated armies like rumors said they were going to.. they didn't

They could have demanded everyone rebase like rumors said... they didn't.

They could have charged for the rules!!

They could have released AOS with ZERO awesome new miniatures.

They could have demanded 8th no longer be played in their stores... they didn't.

They could have set it in Regalia

They could have released Age of Sigmar: Special Nigmos Edition

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

de Selby
06-07-2015, 05:04
They could have invalidated armies like rumors said they were going to.. they didn't

They could have demanded everyone rebase like rumors said... they didn't.

They could have charged for the rules!!

They could have released AOS with ZERO awesome new miniatures.

They could have demanded 8th no longer be played in their stores... they didn't.

They could have set it in Regalia

They could have released Age of Sigmar: Special Nigmos Edition

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

All good answers. Didn't Hastings say he had heard something about Regalia? So that rumour started at quite a high level. I think deliberate misinformation was a part of the total blackout strategy, although I don't understand why. It doesn't seem to have generated any good will, to put it mildly.



The only way to win Age of Sigmar is not to play.

A strange game...

Okuto
06-07-2015, 05:20
Well.....they could have charged for rules.....

or it could of sucked hard....its not a perfect game but its not that bad either

I recently had my first couple of games with AoS and can see it's appeal but it's very rough around the edges rules-wise at this moment and time. I was under the impression it was gonna be the ultimate pick up/beer and pretzels game but you need to agree to a good amount of things in advance before you play(shoot into combat, whats that about?), after you get through the compensating AoS isn't too bad, it's not great either but it fullfills its objective of a quick easy to pick up game.

I'm still gonna convert those models in the starter set into my 40k army though....

taurus-marstein
06-07-2015, 06:17
Guys, they could have just discontinued selling warhammer minis, but they haven't. That'd be the worst IMO.
I'm still gonna buy guys for collecting / 8th ed purposes.
Until everyone who plays fantasy is dead, the game will not be dead

AngryAngel
06-07-2015, 07:34
?? Apparently it will just take time, but those armies will end up invalidated, at least such is what it seems.

At the point they invalidated the armies, they will all be circular based anyways.

They will end up charging for actual rules, just not this pamphlet.

They really couldn't release a new game system and not put out minis, being a minis company.

Some of their stores have demanded 8th no longer be played and as time goes on, that might become more vocal and apparent with their stores.

They have plenty of stupid names to go around, I'm sure.

So, still seems pretty bad, even if it could be worse.

Drakkar du Chaos
06-07-2015, 12:09
Guys, they could have just discontinued selling warhammer minis, but they haven't. That'd be the worst IMO.
I'm still gonna buy guys for collecting / 8th ed purposes.
Until everyone who plays fantasy is dead, the game will not be dead

Just wait 6 months. Its just a matter of time.

As for me and 8th i will buy my next miniatures there :

http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90&Itemid=151
http://www.coolminiornot.com/
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/#&panel1-1
http://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php
http://www.momminiaturas.com/
http://privateerpress.com/
http://www.ragingheroes.com/
http://russian-alternative.ru/
http://sciborminiatures.com/
http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php/index.php
http://www.titan-forge.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=eff7c8c1b1ff4646680ed34b617589 3f

Haravikk
06-07-2015, 12:16
How do you set up a balanced game? Not even mentioned.
The Most Important Rule effectively states "talk to your opponent"; in essence we use the same system that's we've always used, which is to play with opponents that aren't going to either lie about or abuse the game, as having points costs for everything didn't stop people from spamming the most broken models, building deathstars or exploiting overpowered magic.

So in a way, it could be said that AoS could have been worse if it had retained a points system which others would use as a crutch and assume enforced balance even though it has always been abused in the past anyway. They will need some kind of formal system at some point, but for now it's "play what you and your opponent can both enjoy", which appears to be an alien concept to some :)

Shandor
06-07-2015, 12:17
They could have invalidated armies like rumors said they were going to.. they didn't

They could have demanded everyone rebase like rumors said... they didn't.

They could have charged for the rules!!

They could have released AOS with ZERO awesome new miniatures.

They could have demanded 8th no longer be played in their stores... they didn't.

They could have set it in Regalia

They could have released Age of Sigmar: Special Nigmos Edition

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

8th Edition is not allowed to play in my Store anymore.

But its true.. they chould charged 60$ for 4 pages of useless Rules.. im so thankful they didnt :)

Kahadras
06-07-2015, 12:28
There could have been a collectors edition of the 4 pages rules.

Yup. It's limited edition and is in hardback. You even get 6 metal tokens and a bookmark with it! Yours for only 100! :)

The only bright spot in AoS is they didn't charge us for the 4 pages of garbage they put out.

Shandor
06-07-2015, 12:38
The Most Important Rule effectively states "talk to your opponent"; in essence we use the same system that's we've always used, which is to play with opponents that aren't going to either lie about or abuse the game, as having points costs for everything didn't stop people from spamming the most broken models, building deathstars or exploiting overpowered magic.

So in a way, it could be said that AoS could have been worse if it had retained a points system which others would use as a crutch and assume enforced balance even though it has always been abused in the past anyway. They will need some kind of formal system at some point, but for now it's "play what you and your opponent can both enjoy", which appears to be an alien concept to some :)

Even better would be if they make no Rules at all! So you can talk to your buddys and play how and what you like without having evil rules tell you what to do in a Game! I would pay extra money for no Rules! Its so much better then the old system with Rules..

MiyamatoMusashi
06-07-2015, 12:48
Even better would be if they make no Rules at all! So you can talk to your buddys and play how and what you like without having evil rules tell you what to do in a Game! I would pay extra money for no Rules! Its so much better then the old system with Rules..

Good point!

Agree with your opponent on what the setting is. Should only take a couple of hours to come up with a compelling backstory for your game.

Agree with your opponent what model scale you're using. Of course, just like bases aren't really important - neither are the models. Got 6mm epic models and your opponent has 54mm Inquisitor models? No problem! It's all part of forging a narrative.

Agree with your opponent what dice to use. No longer are we bound by the shackles of the boring D6! I mean, D6s have been good enough for Warhammer for 30 years, but in the brave new world you can use whatever dice you like. You and your opponent don't even need to use the same dice, dicing off with a D6 versus a D20 will just make it all the more glorious if you win the dice off - and why stop there!?!? You roll a 4, your opponent draws a Jack of Clubs. It's your game, do what you want with it!

Agree with your opponent how damage will be resolved. Traditionally this has meant removing models from the table, but you shouldn't feel bound by the "rules"! Just as people always used to play without points values and they got on fine, back when HG Wells wrote his classic wargames book, they'd fire matches at each other's models. Try using pellet guns or paintballs. Or if you and your opponent both agree, play AoS EXTREME - your Golden Demon-winning dragon has just been killed? Bring out the SLEDGEHAMMER!!!

I know some of this might sound revolutionary to some people, but really that's only because they haven't woken up to the new reality. Take whatever you want in your army - it's not unbalanced, it's freedom. Use whatever rules you like for your game - it's not anarchy, it's simply your choice. Even better - slack it all off and go down the pub. So long as you call it "playing Age of Sigmar", it still counts!

Mr_Foulscumm
06-07-2015, 14:42
Even better would be if they make no Rules at all! So you can talk to your buddys and play how and what you like without having evil rules tell you what to do in a Game! I would pay extra money for no Rules! Its so much better then the old system with Rules..

I thought this was a "how could rhey have made it worse" thread.

Anyway the point is silly, nothing is stopping anyone from using other rules with the minis anyway.

Tau_player001
06-07-2015, 15:00
The Most Important Rule effectively states "talk to your opponent"; in essence we use the same system that's we've always used, which is to play with opponents that aren't going to either lie about or abuse the game, as having points costs for everything didn't stop people from spamming the most broken models, building deathstars or exploiting overpowered magic.

So in a way, it could be said that AoS could have been worse if it had retained a points system which others would use as a crutch and assume enforced balance even though it has always been abused in the past anyway. They will need some kind of formal system at some point, but for now it's "play what you and your opponent can both enjoy", which appears to be an alien concept to some :)
"Broken units" atleast had a point cost so you could match the "Broken units" with your own points to have a fair and enjoyable game. This way you are completely in the dark. You are delusional.

Whirlwind
06-07-2015, 15:07
Well they could have made it worse by paying to the see the rules and cards on a per day basis!

You pay 5 per day to have access to the rules (or sub of 35 per month) + 0.50 per warscroll you wanted to use. No access to downloading and designed in a way that it messes up screenshots. Literally a pay to play MMORG type wargame.

Tau_player001
06-07-2015, 15:11
Well, AOS could have given AIDS and cancer. Luckily for us it doesn't.

Whirlwind
06-07-2015, 15:22
Well they could have made it worse by paying to the see the rules and cards on a per day basis!

You pay 5 per day to have access to the rules (or sub of 35 per month) + 0.50 per warscroll you wanted to use. No access to downloading and designed in a way that it messes up screenshots. Literally a pay to play MMORG type wargame.

Whirlwind
06-07-2015, 15:23
Double post - damn it

shelfunit.
06-07-2015, 15:29
They could have clarified everything to the degree that the detractors seem to be demanding, in which case the rulebook would be a barely comprehensible 3,000 page mess and there'd still be mistakes and exploits anyway.

If they clarified things then they would be clear. If they balanced things they would be balanced. Just because they haven't bothered to do this with any of their previous rulesets doesn't mean it couldnt be done.