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AkalaSpeaksFact
06-07-2015, 10:19
Just wondering what kind of army's people are going to run with skaven.

I've made a 125 wound list and have jezzails, cannon, screaming bell, clan rats,plague monks, storm vermin and a few characters.

What's everyone else planning on using?


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

Kisanis
08-07-2015, 00:28
I Plan on dropping a big spearman blob down first,

depending on what my opponnent does next: Second Sword/shield blob, or weapon teams/characters screened behind the blob.
Blob sizes i guess will depend on how long of a game we plan on playing - But I have my verminlord as a just in case.

Rat Ogres may come out as well... I really have no idea.

Preplanning for this game is hard...

mhsellwood
08-07-2015, 01:06
If you are pre planning I think a verminus clawpack battalion offers some great bonuses - the ability to give multiple units an extra attack with the warlord and still use another command ability from a different character. Also most of what you have listed would fit into the clawpack.

If you are deploying unit by unit and freely, then kicking off with a small unit or two like 5 giant rats will give you a bit of an opportunity to see where your opponent is going and if he is going down the shooting path you can get some close combat style going on with a moulder battalion, or a bell and supporting verminus troops. If he is looking at close combat on the other hand some heavy firepower of your own would be a good response.

As Kisanis says with rules as written, preplanning is hard - it is more about knowing what are favourable match ups in your army against what your opponent has deployed.

Kisanis
08-07-2015, 02:40
I personally am thinking the spearmen blob due to the 2" reach will really let me use numbers to my advantage. I think Poison wind globadiers may be interesting in AOS as they can screen in the main unit very well and can fire into combat (The entire concept of which, suits skaven very well). Combine it with a battle standard bearer moved into the middle and he can make a very hard to move blob. I may also try this with warp grinders to deep strike my blob as needed.

I also like the gutter runners and night runners for range attacks as well.

Its basically determine what are your "im always going to need" and then determine how you would deal with:
An opposing infantry blob
Enemy characters
Enemy monsters
enemy warmachines
enemy summoners/wizards

and hope you brought enough of the right ones to the fray to be deployed.

Balerion
08-07-2015, 08:38
If you are pre planning I think a verminus clawpack battalion offers some great bonuses - the ability to give multiple units an extra attack with the warlord and still use another command ability from a different character. Also most of what you have listed would fit into the clawpack.

It does seem pretty good, but I have a hard time finding a rationale for using Clanrats/Slaves/Giant Rats etc. over Stormvermin.

Although I'm playing with house rules/total wounds limit, so I guess in a "true" game of AoS you could just put down all of your Stormvermin AND all of your Clanrats.

Nightfall Shimmer
08-07-2015, 09:06
A unit of 30 Clanrats hits and wounds on a 3+.
A unit of Skavenslaves deals a Mortal Wound on a 6 for every model removed from Battleshock. (Just make sure your guys are at least 1" away from the Slaves to make sure it's the enemy unit that takes the hits.)
A unit of 30 Giant Rats has 3 attacks each hitting on 2+

There are reasons to take them.

Balerion
08-07-2015, 09:19
Well,yeah, but a unit of 30 Stormvermin would "cost" the same as the 30 Clanrats/G.Rats. At 30 models they'd be outnumbering most enemies, and usually hitting on 3's as well. Always wounding on 3's, no matter how much attrition they absorb. And they have a rend value and superior save.

Slaves are junk. A 1/6 chance for a mortal wound is not effective. Get a WFT instead.

I could maybe see using small sling units as screeners, but again, why wouldn't you rather just use another small unit of SV to do the same thing?

Balerion
08-07-2015, 09:25
On another note, Warlock Engineers seem real good.

They have something to contribute in every phase, their spell has great range and a low casting value, and the pumped version of it has less risk than many of the other "supercharges" in the Skaven army (since they only take 1 wound instead of D3).

Kisanis
08-07-2015, 11:08
Skavenslaves arent anywhere as useful now - even with slings id rather a blob of night runners/gutter runners throwing stars.

That said, by imposing a wound limitation, slaves, goblins, etc... all become useless because they are not able to go head to head one on one. I plan on avoiding points and just deploying like the rules say until some of the point systems get sorted, or GW releases their own.

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AkalaSpeaksFact
09-07-2015, 16:43
The tables have turned a bit in turns of mass infantry. Storm vermin > slaves now. I expect to see more from jezzails to


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

pox
10-07-2015, 21:09
I'm gonna play tonight for the first time, bringing the Eshin claw pack. I never ranked up my old nightrunners, so I have three 20 rat units with different equipment. gonna field them with 10 gutter runners, three assasins, and deathmaster snitch. I'm facing 60 chaos warriors of nurgle with a few heros.

Tomorrow I'm gonna try it for most of the day. I'll bring all of the above along with 80 storm vermin and 80 plague monks for lighter games.I'll also have a good selection of Skaven stand alone models just to see how broken the game can get should someone want to bring lots of big ugly things. sadly the big skaven stuff tends to lean towards Skryre, so I'll have a doom wheel, two warp lighting cannons, eight ratling guns, four warp fire throwers, 10 jezzails and eight rat ogres. That seems like a good selection to try an "elite" skirmish force.

Kisanis
12-07-2015, 21:07
I played against Lizards the other day.
I ran one 40 unit blob of Sword/shield clanrats in the centre, one 40 unit of clanrats on the left, skaven warlord, grey seer, 2 engineers, in the rear with LOS where needed.

The right had jezzails and mortars; I used the night runners as screens for shooting and as skirmishers.

The fun thign I did was use a warp grinder to deep strike 30 stormvermin behind the slann mage priest. That worked well.

I may look into marauder calverly to give the army some help on the flanks in addition to the night runners.

Hite
13-07-2015, 04:13
I played a 125 wound game against Orcs. The Verminus Clawpack worked well. I had 3 minimum sized Clanrat units and a 30 Stormvermin. I used the Clanrats to screen the Stormvermin. My opponent charged the one of the units of Clanrats with 25 Orcs with two weapon and wiped them out but his pile in move put the unit within 3" of the Stormvermin. My Stormvermin got to hit him in his turn and then in my turn and they wiped out the Orcs without taking any casualties. He lost 25 Orcs for the the cost of my 10 Clanrats. I realize the next time I play him he will be more careful but it worked this time.

Kisanis
13-07-2015, 12:37
I did the same thing with my night runners as a screen unit up front.

Their ability to shoot and run was handy for baiting the enemy forward.

Ive also been good at removing casualties in multiple unit attacks so that the 2 unit can't attack, even with pile in moves.

Who plays with being able to shoot into combat? Or shoot while in combat?


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rolly_321
13-07-2015, 13:45
Technically the rules say nothing about NOT being able to... That said personally I would house rule that they can't.

The concept of archers firing volleys of arrows into another combat without hitting their own side while simultaneously blocking, dodging and attack another unit in hand to hand is beyond silly.

Kisanis
13-07-2015, 16:19
What about shooting at the unit they are engaged in while in combat?

We played they cant shoot while engaged, but then again I think that was from conventional thinking.

Shooting into is important though,and im ok with it (assuming the ranged unit has LOS)

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Tidings
13-07-2015, 20:47
Yeah, not to derail the conversation from Skaven, but shooting into combat is more important in AoS than it was in fantasy. In fantasy units would break and flee and all so most units would be in and out of combat, meaning you could shoot at them again. In AoS they are often stuck in combat for a while slowly grinding each other down. I know it's silly as far as fluff goes but it does make archers a LOT less useful in AoS if they can't shoot into combat. You could explain it as they are just shooting over the combat into the back ranks or something.

-Tidings

Hite
14-07-2015, 02:20
We have not house ruled anything about shooting. You can shoot while in combat, into combat whatever. It does not make shooting more powerful than any other part of the game.

Its Jack
14-07-2015, 11:30
Plague Monks are filth. Two daggers each means they get 6 attacks on the charge, throw in the Vermin lord Corrupter and Skaven Warlord for an extra 2 attacks per weapon and they get 10 attacks each on the charge. If you decide to be "that guy" the glottkins bonus puts them up to 12 attacks each on the charge.

DVeight
14-07-2015, 12:38
Played against Skaven just this past Saturday....... gave me such a tense game as they were W T F all over my Empire. Don't know if this is a theme of them, in my game they had a very strong hero phase and shooting phase. Yes, plague monks made me drop my jaw when he ran in with a unit and piled in then counted and said he had 72 hits to roll for. Big WTF They have **** saves on the other hand, that was pleasing hehe.

Was a tense game, my opponent actually enjoyed playing with them whereas in 8th he found them counter productive.

AkalaSpeaksFact
14-07-2015, 12:48
I'm pretty sure plague monks only get 2 attacks with the blades and 3 on the charge if they have a pair.


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

Gorthor21
14-07-2015, 13:37
you are right the two attacks is for the pair of weapons. so with the stacks already mentioned they would still get 5 a piece which is still quite ridiculous

Its Jack
14-07-2015, 14:13
Really? The side says they are armed with a pair of foetid blades,the weapons rules only lists them as a singular foetid blade.

edit: Autocorrect fixed.

AkalaSpeaksFact
14-07-2015, 19:03
We're does it say that you get 4 attacks for a pair of them? It doesn't.


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

Gorthor21
14-07-2015, 20:17
with that line of assumption an orc warboss with a pair of boss choppas would have 12 attacks

Its Jack
14-07-2015, 20:23
Fair doos, it was worth double checking. It just seems odd that every other profile that uses multiple weapons in the book is listed as plural (Plaguereapers on the Verminlord, Stabbing Blades on Nightrunners, etc).

Gorthor21
14-07-2015, 20:49
that is a very valid point on the plurals. in that case you could be right about a pair of foetid blades being four attacks and six on a charge. the only reason i say this is because of the staff abd blade combination produces three attacks and four on a charge. the devil is in the details on this one, definitely makes plague monks far more rabid than before and almost makes me want one of those corruptors.
looking at some other warscrolls it seems the main benefit of the pair wording is a re roll of ones to hit, from chaos warriors, orc boyz, to gors and ogres. im still open to the two hand weapon arguments but it seems pretty clear from the wording in all the entries that its not an insane flurry of attacks but ill wait and see what some clarification will bring to light on this

drazhar222
14-07-2015, 22:11
i believe you only get the 2 attacks (3 on charge) with plague monks sadly, however they have the re-roll to hit ability if armed with 2 weapons (also called Foetid Blades so the other rule may be referring to that).

Ayin
16-07-2015, 19:56
What's the Skaven player opinion on max wounds/warscroll?

Multiple communities I've seen have placed restrictions on the max number of wounds you can field per scroll (as low as 20, usually 25 with a high of 30), considering Skaven have historically been a horde army, and many people have some pretty big units these days, is this something that anyone runs into or disagrees with, or does the idea of scaling AoS up to that size just not appeal when you could be fielding anything else instead of those large units?

Kisanis
16-07-2015, 20:15
Thats where those kinds of conventions for limititation and model count fall apart. I would say base it off of size bonuses + squad minimum.

Get a bonus for 30 models with a 10 model min? Max size is 40.

Quick way. Otherwise I would say 25 model max or min x 3

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Gorthor21
17-07-2015, 00:05
i have a question, if a weapon that deals more than one damage hits and wounds a single wound model does it take out that many models. ie jezzail has two damage killing two clanrats

Kisanis
17-07-2015, 01:19
You target the ubit based on individual model ranges. The attacks are resolved simultaneously.

So if the jezzails are only in range of 1 model, but kill 2 models worth in wounds, 2 models are removed.

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Gorthor21
17-07-2015, 04:14
awesome skyre stuff just makes my day in this version of things. i think the model count balance can be balanced with skaven with weapon teams and warmachines. what they said about ogres in that other thread about multidamage made my jaw drop

Ayin
17-07-2015, 06:50
awesome skyre stuff just makes my day in this version of things. i think the model count balance can be balanced with skaven with weapon teams and warmachines. what they said about ogres in that other thread about multidamage made my jaw drop

The Waywatcher and Goblin Wolf Rider breakdowns really convinced me that, if I had any doubts, rules for lineage models in a non-AoS style are, at best, a nice thing put out for long time customers to play with and, more fairly, not as well considered as is likely to be the case with future releases/AoS-ifying.

Gorthor21
17-07-2015, 14:46
these compendiums are exactly like the ravening hordes list back in 5th ed. they served the same purpose to hold over the existing players until they get new rules and perhaps new models like the previous editions have had. the way things sound with the ongoing story GW is actually creating a story in a far broader background that opens many more avenues for development than even PP has had with the same update system. i truly dont understand all the doom and gloom about this new system, they are taking all the things that were unique about warhammer and synthesizing them with more successful tropes(space marines) and release practices(pp updates) and simpler game mechanics(kow) to reinvigorate their static flagship system.
sure all this has been said in defense of age of sigmar but so have all the negative things that are twice as prevalent on the internet. two or three years down the road i hope this dust clears and one can go to a tactics forum and actually hear useful advice.

Kisanis
17-07-2015, 16:13
I wouldnt really compare aos to kow. Thats hardly a fair comparison. Kow is simplifeied whfb. Aos is simplified 40k

I dont hate aos, I still am judging until I play more.

But I get why everyone is upset. They OVERsimplified the game for many people. Balance is very hard to acheive, and preplanning a game is also hard.

But lets keep this about skaven in aos, not a pro-con fight.

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Gorthor21
17-07-2015, 21:43
i think tunneling stormfiends and a big unit of rat ogres with a warpgrinder tunneling up could be fun with all those attacks on a lower model count popping up. the stormfiends with ratling guns is just wicked with the ability to shoot in combat

Kisanis
18-07-2015, 04:47
I tunnelled a big blib of stormvermin. Play your cards right and you can tunnel in 100 clanrats and they dont count to your deployment or summoning limitations.


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AkalaSpeaksFact
18-07-2015, 19:02
I've had great success with 2 units of 5 jezzails and 1 rattling weapon team. Uv been playing 100 wound games with 2 Heroes max and 2 monsters max.


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

Gorthor21
18-07-2015, 19:18
tunneling a unit of missle troops like jezzails to an open side of the field or behind the melee blog could give good results. on average how many casualties do jezzails cause?

AkalaSpeaksFact
18-07-2015, 19:30
Not sure about average wounds from them but 6's are 2 mortal wounds. You can re roll ones if you sat still. Wounding on 3's with rend -2.


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

RattrapKilo
28-07-2015, 17:53
Right now I'm going with an Eshin clan theme. Playing the formation on the warscrolls and adding weapons teams and warmachines if the battles get big enough. With no real prior fantasy knowledge and come from 40k as an eldar/dark eldar player I wanted something with that same style of finess.

My main strategy is aim for getting sudden death and go for Assassination. I try to do that by keeping the units small as possible but still effective. If my opponent drops a big nasty I don't feel like the assassin and gutter runners can dwindle down on there own I'll try tto sneak some ratling guns in without losing my Sudden Death option if possible.

This has worked so far against slower paced enemies, and as of yet my assassin has been able to sucker punch most other heroes on foot. (Didn't do so hot when I jumped a dragon, even after prior wounds softened it up).

Biggest problem I've noticed is fliers and calvary. Their speed cripples your formation bonuses which really shine when speed is on your side. Totally open to suggestions on this if anyone has anything better than dropping ratling guns for support. They do alright for a volley and keep the model count low but after a round of fire they just get closed in on to easily.

Gorthor21
30-07-2015, 16:08
for weapon teams consider warpgrinders. the units that you attach to them dont set up during deployment so you can put bigger units on the board during the course of the game just like deep striking in 40k. so a pair of 30 gutter runners with two warpgrinders doesn't count towards your deployment so you can try for sudden death and still bring out big mobs to distract his forces like those fliers and cavalry. ratling guns are good for two wounds with the amount of ranged attacks they can get. does your group use wound limits or model counts?

Kisanis
30-07-2015, 18:08
I used warpgrinders with about 30 stormvermin. It was pretty vicious.

There is no size restriction on what pops up!

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RattrapKilo
30-07-2015, 20:08
@gorthor21 Nice call on the warpgrinders. Totally overlooked the reinforcement rule for Sudden Death conditions. My group started using wound count but we are testing out other ways to see what can achieve the best sense of balance.

My main opposition will be wood elves and vampires for now. It's mostly the vampire fliers and calvary I worry about. My assassin punches out most of my opponents lord options, especially when I place him with the gutter runners, but being in a small gaming group I don't want to set a patern for my opponents to pick up on.

Bloodknights are still scary but I think I can mitigate that with Stormfiends. Once we start using special characters I'm gonna give the Deathmaster a go. I'm unsure on the rules for the claw packs though, if I take him does he satisfy the requirement for the 1 assassin? He has the tag assassin but the claw pack says one skaven assassin. Not sure if you just need the tags on the warscrolls or take the actual unit. In bigger games it doesn't matter cause I'll drop both, but for a small scrap Deathmaster out classes his lesser rat brothers for sure.

Kisanis
31-07-2015, 02:17
Have a look at the games development forum. Theres a few good balancing packs out there.

I like "last chances" which is also aos comp. (last chance is the guy leading the project.)

Azyr comp is another popular one.

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DiaLogical
31-07-2015, 15:12
Could I be Skaven sneaky and quickly ask something off topic...
Was considering starting a small Skaven force, looking through the models I can't seem to find the Warpfire thrower or Poisoned wind mortar on the GW site? Quick google only returns tactics results, not what happened to the models. I understand the latter used to be in the island of blood box, but I assume (at one time) they must've been available as a seperate mini as well?

isthatnew?
31-07-2015, 20:02
Could I be Skaven sneaky and quickly ask something off topic...
Was considering starting a small Skaven force, looking through the models I can't seem to find the Warpfire thrower or Poisoned wind mortar on the GW site? Quick google only returns tactics results, not what happened to the models. I understand the latter used to be in the island of blood box, but I assume (at one time) they must've been available as a seperate mini as well?

The warpfire thrower used to have a metal model as did the ratling gun but the only poisoned wind mortar I can recall was the plastic island of blood model.

Kisanis
31-07-2015, 20:34
Both warpfire and poisoned wind are IoB models.

Check out bits dealers... or just buy up island of blood and get 8th rules as a bonus!

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SSquirrel
01-08-2015, 16:39
Azyr comp is another popular one.


The guy who leads the local WFHB campaigns is the one who designed the Azyr comp. I haven't looked into making armies using just the base rules, b/c I know our local campaigns will use this new comp. That said, I have only worked on the Skirmish and Patrol size armies so far. Here are some of my favorites from the lists I ahd been working on. The Patrol lists w/the same numbers are grown up versions of the Skirmish. We have a Skirmish-Patrol Escalation coming up in September. The other Patrol ones couldn't have the leaders at the Skirmish level, usually b/c of Hero costs, except the Plague Priest list #12.


Skirmish:
3) 3 Rat Ogres, 1 Doomwheel, 1 Warlock Engineer, 1 Doom Flayer
7) 1 Plague Priest, 10 Plague Monks, 1 Doom Wheel, 1 Doom Flayer, 2 Rat Swarms
10) 2 Doom Flayer, 1 Doom Wheel, 3 Rat Ogres, 2 Rat Swarms

Patrol:
3) 3 Rat Ogres, 1 Doomwheel, 1 Warlock Engineer, 2 Doom Flayer, 1 Hell Pit Abomination
7) 1 Plague Priest, 20 Plague Monks, 1 Doom Wheel, 2 Doom Flayer, 2 Rat Swarms, 1 Poison Wind Mortar, 3 Rat Ogres
10) 2 Doom Flayer, 2 Doom Wheel, 6 Rat Ogres, 2 Rat Swarms 1 Poison Wind Mortar, 1 Warpfire Thrower
11) 1 Queek Headtaker, 10 Stormvermin, 1 Chieftain BSB, 3 Rat Ogres, 2 DoomFlayer, 1 Doom Wheel
12) 1 Plague Priest, 20 Plague Monks, 2 Doomwheel, 2 Doom Flayer, 3 Rat Ogres
14) 1 Queek Headtaker, 10 Stormvermin, 1 Hell Pit Abomination, 4 Rat Swarm
15) 1 Daemon Prince, 2 Doomwheel, 5 Gutter Runners, 2 Poison Wind Mortar, 5 Warplock Jezzails


I need to work on some of the larger lists. Have to be a Small Group to run a Seer on Bell and Large Group to run Plague Priest on Furnace. Apoc seems more like the size of an old 2500 pt army.

blue penguin
14-08-2015, 22:13
I have a question that might have been asked previously (most likely) but my search-fu isn't that strong. Also, this is based on the compendiums available on the gw site. I haven't looked at the books they've released and so don't know if their content changes things.

Can I just win whenever I want if I take a screaming bell and say two six-sided dice one of which has 7's on all sides and the other 6's on all sides? Peal of doom calls for rolling "two dice" and the last result does say you get "branded a cheat" which I have no problem with. So I can just play like normal protecting my bell and if it seems like everything is about to crash and burn I bust out the victory dice.

What if I add a pip to a 6 in a die to make it have a 7 and then just hope to roll boxcars (which would actually be a 13 and not a 12)?

For the record, I wouldn't do this against an opponent who doesn't look like a good sport (unless he also happens to be my younger brother) or too many times against the same opponents (maybe once every five games tops).

Gorthor21
14-08-2015, 23:02
are you joking or are you serious?

Spiney Norman
14-08-2015, 23:31
Yeah, I think you might find the majority of players would object to playing against someone who was using modified dice designed to give them an auto-win.

I think a mor troubling question is why would you actually bother playing at all if that was all you we're going to do?

Novacane
15-08-2015, 12:57
are you joking or are you serious?

Sadly the rules do not specify unmodified D6's.

Granted, neither did the 8th, but in AoS where the rules are greyer than Gandalf's robes in Fellowship.

Its Jack
15-08-2015, 14:48
some nonsense

I...what?

Would you seriously do this? Why not ally in Kairos and do the same thing without being as silly.

blue penguin
16-08-2015, 00:04
I'm being serious, for the record though, I've played a grand total of like 5 games in the past like three years. All but one of them against my older brother and we are currently trying to get a friend to play. So while I agree that most people would object against playing against that, I'm playing with a very specific pool of opponents like 90 something % of the time. The kind of players that would let me play a Cheatyface I could sneak him in (mtg).

This is completely and utterly being silly and stupid. That's more or less the point. Plus I do think that using modified dice is not something to do in this game or others (but the rules and fluff.).

I've never taken the game that seriously and as I said above, I'd use this once everything fell apart and was essentially about to be wiped out. A way to end the game a turn or two earlier once all hope is lost. I don't expect my opponent to accept that as a victory for me (maybe the very first time I do it).

Also, where's that skaven spirit of cheating and backstabbery? (so maybe not actual cheating per se).

ptderfel
16-08-2015, 14:17
You are just a troll, and should be ignored as one.


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Novacane
16-08-2015, 18:36
You are just a troll, and should be ignored as one.


Enviado do meu iPad usando o Tapatalk

*slowclaps*

blue penguin
16-08-2015, 21:47
Overgeneralizing based on two posts in one thread? You've got some mad skills there Sherlock.

You go back to using the internet to maximize your chances of wining (which is the point of these kinds of threads) and I'll go back to doing my thing, yeah?

Before someone misinterprets, I am not bashing on tactics threads. They can be really useful when help is needed. If your problem is people using this as a tactic, I can understand that. You don't have to be condescending to say that it is possible if you twist enough rules and that it is highly unsportsmanlike.

Gorthor21
18-08-2015, 23:04
if loaded dice work for you and yours then go right ahead. doesn't bother me at all, i just wanted to know if you were joking or not.

blue penguin
20-08-2015, 18:21
not quite but this should just get dropped so the thread can go back to what it was.

if anybody cares they can pm me to chat about views on the game, gaming groups, and why my question/why when I think this is okay