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Greavous
06-07-2015, 16:18
ive been looking at the warhound titan and would really like to get one, mainly because i think it looks cool.
but my problem is with what armies can they go with? like is it a imperial guard unit or SM? or simply not have one (titan legion)
i play tau (right now thinking of buying another army) and would like to know how i can team him up with them OR what armeis id have to look into buying.
obviously the chaos warhound is for a chaos army XD but im jsut after an idea before i go off buying 400 worth of model(s) only to not be able to use them.

Formerly Wu
06-07-2015, 16:28
As far as I'm aware, Titans are Lord of War choices for any army of the Imperium.

Arthanor
06-07-2015, 16:31
You can play a warhound with any imperial army, as a Lord of War choice. Titan legions are their own independent force so they can support whoever.

They are part of the Mechanicus though, so the best fit army wise (from a fluff point of view) would be a mechanicum force. Second best match would probably be imperial guards. SM are usually shock troops, so using them as grunts for a titan feels a bit odd to me.

MagicHat
06-07-2015, 17:29
Skitarii would be the obvious choice fluffwise by a landslide, but GW didn't give them a LoW slot to use Titans.

Asura Varuna
06-07-2015, 20:13
Chaos Warhounds are also a thing with Imperial Armour 13.

If you want something cheesy, you'd be best off with a Chaos Warhound. Combo this with Be'lakor and few squads of Horrors/Heralds and just spend the entire game spamming invisibility on the titan.

If you're not looking for some crazy cheeseball sorta list, then just go with whatever army's aesthetics you find most appealing. As Titans are lords of war for any Army of the Imperium, this could include Admech or Grey Knights as well.

Senbei
06-07-2015, 20:31
Skitarii would be the obvious choice fluffwise by a landslide, but GW didn't give them a LoW slot to use Titans.

Actually.... It's a bit stranger than that. Skitarii haven't traditionally had titans. When Titans have appeared with supporting Mechanicus troops they've been Tech Guard (troops raised from the forge worlds that build the titans, iirc). Tech guard are closer to Imperial Guard than Skitarii, though they use smaller formations (at the time it was 30 men to a platoon, where guard were fielding 60) and better equipped (The first units in the 40k universe to have Chimeras were Tech Guard, the Imperial Guard were still using rhinos*).

*Possibly. iirc, they were introduced with the 'Titan Legions' game in 1994, then in 40k with the 2nd ed Imp Guard codex the next year.

MagicHat
06-07-2015, 20:58
Actually.... It's a bit stranger than that. Skitarii haven't traditionally had titans. When Titans have appeared with supporting Mechanicus troops they've been Tech Guard (troops raised from the forge worlds that build the titans, iirc). Tech guard are closer to Imperial Guard than Skitarii, though they use smaller formations (at the time it was 30 men to a platoon, where guard were fielding 60) and better equipped (The first units in the 40k universe to have Chimeras were Tech Guard, the Imperial Guard were still using rhinos*).

*Possibly. iirc, they were introduced with the 'Titan Legions' game in 1994, then in 40k with the 2nd ed Imp Guard codex the next year.

Tech Guard were just outsiders name for Skitarii though. The fluff have changed and Skitarii no longer use lasguns, but their codex puts them up as Titan defenders.

Greavous
07-07-2015, 08:10
thanks guys helped alot.

think id go with either mechanicum or skitaari (too many guard/sm players anyway :P) anyone got a breakdown of the 2 armies? like overall tactics, versatility, etc i know they are new armies and dont have alot of units yet.... and expensive.

MajorWesJanson
07-07-2015, 08:23
Skitarii are fastmoving footslogers with decent armor, good equipment, and only T3. Of the two, they are the cheaper army to start, as the codex and one box of skitarii are sufficient for a legal (if tiny) detachment. Cost-wise, only the Ironstriders are really overpriced. The troops and Tanks are reasonable (in GW terms) Lots of haywire for AT, rad for anti-infantry, and the Icarus Onager is pretty mean against fliers. They play like Dark Eldar wish they did.
Cult Mech is based around smaller numbers of durable heavy infantry/robots. They brin heavier firepower and durability per model, but pay for it. They are also anti-elite specialists, with heavy grav cannon troops and plenty of AP3 shots on the robots.

Depending on your budget, I'd personally go with Skitarii to start- 2-3 boxes of Rangers/vanguard, and a pair of onagers to run as Icarus AA. Then a Warhound with a plasma blastgun and Turbolaser (My preferred loadout. 2 Turbolasers may be more Destroyer shots, but I feel loading up for maximum D is kind of cheesy, and the Plasma Blastgun gives you more versatility with a larger blast marker)

That will put you at about the 1200 point range before upgrades.

Greavous
07-07-2015, 09:05
thank you very much Wes, alot to think about. seems like the choice between "tank or flank" id be tempted to go mechanicus as they have that lovely special edition codex.

AndrewGPaul
07-07-2015, 10:12
Actually.... It's a bit stranger than that. Skitarii haven't traditionally had titans. When Titans have appeared with supporting Mechanicus troops they've been Tech Guard (troops raised from the forge worlds that build the titans, iirc). Tech guard are closer to Imperial Guard than Skitarii, though they use smaller formations (at the time it was 30 men to a platoon, where guard were fielding 60) and better equipped (The first units in the 40k universe to have Chimeras were Tech Guard, the Imperial Guard were still using rhinos*).

*Possibly. iirc, they were introduced with the 'Titan Legions' game in 1994, then in 40k with the 2nd ed Imp Guard codex the next year.


Tech Guard were just outsiders name for Skitarii though. The fluff have changed and Skitarii no longer use lasguns, but their codex puts them up as Titan defenders.


The original term was "Scutari", introduced in WD 126 as part of a short article about the War Griffons titan legion. in 2nd edition Epic, they were renamed "Tech Guard", but they were the same thing.

Greavous
07-07-2015, 11:39
as another question, whats the difference between the lucius pattern and the mars pattern?

besides the lucius being abit more 'square' they dont look much different?

kaimarion
07-07-2015, 11:53
as another question, whats the difference between the lucius pattern and the mars pattern?

besides the lucius being abit more 'square' they dont look much different?

Other than looks? The lucius is no longer in production.

MarcoSkoll
07-07-2015, 12:31
Not much really. What you have to remember is that the STC systems from which the basis of most of the Imperium's technology comes are actually very versatile systems that are capable of adapting their technology to be built from pretty much whatever local resources are available. They were, after all, intended for explorers who might find themselves on pretty much any world.

If you had a fully working STC system, then should you tell it that honey was in more plentiful supply than promethium, it would happily adapt the plans for a Rhino so that it would run on honey, print them out for you (or load them onto a data crystal, or whatever), and you'd go off and put your manufacturing to use. (Okay, perhaps not honey, but they were fairly versatile systems even if they weren't infinitely versatile).

However, the original STC systems are (officially, at least) broken/lost by the age of the imperium, and the Imperium now relies on whichever hard copies or data-files can be found of any plans which the STCs had previously produced. These can and will vary, even if they're for largely the same machine, as they're the specific instructions that the STCs produced for a certain set of parameters.

The Mars and Lucius patterns are the result of different STC printouts - they're both based on the same core knowledge, but presumably the Lucius patterns were first printed out by an STC that was told that its owners couldn't produce curved armour plates to the right quality/quantity/size/whatever.

Greavous
07-07-2015, 13:19
Not much really. What you have to remember is that the STC systems from which the basis of most of the Imperium's technology comes are actually very versatile systems that are capable of adapting their technology to be built from pretty much whatever local resources are available. They were, after all, intended for explorers who might find themselves on pretty much any world.

If you had a fully working STC system, then should you tell it that honey was in more plentiful supply than promethium, it would happily adapt the plans for a Rhino so that it would run on honey, print them out for you (or load them onto a data crystal, or whatever), and you'd go off and put your manufacturing to use. (Okay, perhaps not honey, but they were fairly versatile systems even if they weren't infinitely versatile).

However, the original STC systems are (officially, at least) broken/lost by the age of the imperium, and the Imperium now relies on whichever hard copies or data-files can be found of any plans which the STCs had previously produced. These can and will vary, even if they're for largely the same machine, as they're the specific instructions that the STCs produced for a certain set of parameters.

The Mars and Lucius patterns are the result of different STC printouts - they're both based on the same core knowledge, but presumably the Lucius patterns were first printed out by an STC that was told that its owners couldn't produce curved armour plates to the right quality/quantity/size/whatever.

thats a very long explanation to say "they couldnt bend metal". thanks for the info, jsut saw that it coems with its own weapons and is still in the catalogue on the site (the pdf not the site page).

MarcoSkoll
09-07-2015, 01:54
thats a very long explanation to say "they couldnt bend metal".
Eeeeehhhh.... sort of.

It is a bit more complex than just that. It's entirely possible that those Forge Worlds which produce the Lucius pattern can bend metal, but they're still copying from a set of instructions that was originally produced for people who couldn't.

The thing is, the Adeptus Mechanicus are very dogmatic - it would actually be a heresy to them to try to adapt the plans (even if it improved them) - and have a tendency to be pretty insular too, so which patterns of Titan/Lasgun/Auto-quill any given Forge World might have access to all relates to some very complex politics and favour.

Greavous
09-07-2015, 08:48
thanks for the info marco.

ive asked my lcoal club and no one minds fighting against it (couple would like to know in advance since its a special unit).
does anyone have alot of knowledge in titan legions? i want to base my army + titan off a specific legion and hopefully even a named titan i can copy. been looknig myself but theres a lsit of about 20+ titan legions but only 3/4 have any info on paint schemes, titan names, history, etc. preferably id like a less known legion but ill take what i can get ^.^

MajorWesJanson
09-07-2015, 10:40
Are you looking for a 40K era legion or a heresy era legion?
Forgeworld has some pretty in depth details on a number of heresy legions in their HH books, and some details on 40K legions in other Imperial Armor books.
Fluffwise, for Titans the novel titanicus is a near must, and has 2 loyalist legions included with descriptions.

Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions) has some good info on the legions and specific named titans to browse, if you have not seen it already.

Are you looking for a specific color scheme, or titan legion related to a certain area or battle?

Greavous
09-07-2015, 10:53
ive looked at lexicanum and thats where i found my 3 or 4 legions with a good amount of info.

well im going to be playing 40k so really aslong as they still exist and the titan hasnt been destroyed i can use it from HH.
cant say i know of many battles and the ones i do the titans were destroyed (or later destroyed), colours i dont mind but a visual represention would be usefull to copy or interpret (off a reaver or something) other than saying they were black, gold, red.

im looking to be able to say (example) - im playing legio mortis a titan legion and the titan is ferrax he has the highest kill count of any warhound titan and has been in service for 6,000 years.

MajorWesJanson
09-07-2015, 13:46
OK, looking through Imperial Armors for warhound art plates. Leaving any that are noted as destroyed:
Taros:
Advensis Secundus- Legio Ignatum (Fire Wasps) Mars Pattern with VMB and Plasma Blastgun

Vraks II:
All as follows: Legio Astorum (Warp Runners) Mars Pattern with Plasma Blastgun and unknown other weapon
Canis Primis
Canis Secundus
Canis Tercius
Canis Quartus
Avernus Ultra
Avernus Maxima
Triarii-Sinister
Triarii-Dexter
Pyladii Alpha
Pyladii Beta
Lupus Prime
Lupus Secundus

Badab part II
All as follows: Legio Crucius (Warmongers) Mars Pattern with Plasma Blastgun and unknown other weapon
Wolfshead
Black Strider
Blood of Caldos

Doom of Mymaerea
Tempus Prima- Legio Gryphonicus (War Gryphons) Mars Pattern with Plasma Blastgun and unknown other weapon
Magna Canis (same as above)
At least one armed with a VMB and Turbolaser

Imperial Armor 13
Caedus Ferrox- Legio Fureans (Tiger Eyes) Chaos Mars Pattern
Occulus Infernii- Legio Vulcanum Chaos Mars Pattern

Heresy era titans:
HH1:
Legio Mortis (Death's Heads) Traitor legion
Sothis
Blood Wolf
Carrion Crow

HH2:
Legio Atarus (Firebrands)
Enervatus
Mandragorax
Iron Hunger
(all destroyed at Drop Site massacre, names and presumably heraldry kept in service in memorial)

HH3:
Legio Fureans (Tiger Eyes) Traitor
Khara
Rahu

Legio Gryphonicus (War Griffons)
Gladius Lucida
Celaritis Rex
both destroyed at Paramar. Possibly names reused.

HH4
Legio Tempestus (Storm Lords) some loyal, some traitor
Durasi
Scorillion

HH5
Legio Praesagius (True Messengers)
Argent Courser
Misercorde
(Destroyed on Calth)

Legio Sutuvora (Fire Masters)
Su benoth
Ashima

FW color plates for Warhounds are always the stock Mars pattern warhound with a plasma blastgun, so feel free to change the loadout when desired.
The color plates let you see the legio colors, so if you want a different named titan of that legion, you can modify the heraldry.

Greavous
09-07-2015, 14:07
thank you very much Mr Wes this info will be very helpful and time saving with not having the destroyed ones in (apaprt form the HH ones)

babab part 2
legio crucius
black strider

i was actually looking for info on this warhound but failed to find anymore, i shall look through the others aswell.
also would it still suit (fluff wise) to paint the rest of the army (mechanicus or skitaari) in the same colours to represent the legion?

MajorWesJanson
09-07-2015, 15:05
Black Strider. Not too much on it. Legio Crucius (Warmongers) owned by Ryza but part of a garrison force on Angstrom (protectorate Forge World of Ryza)
Part of War Maniple Secutar whioch led the attack on Hive Dominar during the final battle of Badab Primaris.
Paint/Heraldry-wise, it is literally black plating and gold trim
216804

This is a larger version of the Blood of Calros, which has a white face and striping. Just leave those off for Black Strider.
216803

FW is coming out with decals for some of the Titan Legions. I think Legio Crucius is one of them.

Painting AdMech to match the titan? Yes, it fits the fluff. I do it for my own Skitarii to match my Titans.

Greavous
09-07-2015, 15:21
awesome XD

ive been looking at legion astorum (warp runners) aswell. ferus arma seems a nice name.
reading through there history they look very loyal even for a titan legion and their paint scheme looks abit more fancy than the legio cricius.

the decals sound cool and very time saving :p.

whats your experience playing the titan army, if you have yet. i be msotly using it for normal 40k not apoc but the occasional apoc game.

MajorWesJanson
09-07-2015, 15:56
awesome XD

ive been looking at legion astorum (warp runners) aswell. ferus arma seems a nice name.
reading through there history they look very loyal even for a titan legion and their paint scheme looks abit more fancy than the legio cricius.

the decals sound cool and very time saving :p.

whats your experience playing the titan army, if you have yet. i be msotly using it for normal 40k not apoc but the occasional apoc game.

I've mainly played it in bigger games, with a few Escalation battles where it duelled Revenant Titans and the old broken Tran C'Tan.
It's sort of a win big/ lose big model. It can put out a lot of damage and vaporize key elements of the enemy force, or it can be jumped on by a bunch of sternguard with meltas and die in a turn. And keep it safe from close combat. Getting locked in combat means it can't shoot, and even with stomp it is easy to get it stuck for a few turns.

Greavous
09-07-2015, 16:09
hmmm thank you i shall remember.

jsut read the 'purge of contqual' with the warrunners, i know really want the warlord, reaver's and warhound's
(it may have jsut been what i read but it said he deployed with 4 other titans yet it has 2 reavers and 3 warhounds listed)
on the picture off him here http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/c/cc/Warlord11.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121212020314 what weapons is he using?
ive so far devised it a gatling blaster on his right arm, two double barreled turbo laser destructors on his carapace shoulders, but i cant figure out his left arm unless it a varient of some sort.

MajorWesJanson
09-07-2015, 16:50
It's a volcano cannon. That particular titan in the picture is Imperius Dictio, from the comic series Titan. Lucius pattern warlord with TL turbolasers, a gatling blaster, and a volcano cannon like the epic model.

MarcoSkoll
10-07-2015, 03:01
If you're getting looking to get fluff heavy and find an official titan, one consideration is that Wolf-class Warhounds are usually deployed in pairs* (see Wes' list of all of the ones from Vraks, which are actually named in said pairs), so if you're only buying the one Warhound, try looking for a Jackal or Mastiff variant.

That said, I'm not actually sure how or even if they can be visually identified when it comes to the Mars Pattern (although Forge World did show us Wolf and Jackal variants of the Lucius pattern, which had slightly different heads), but at the very least, don't pick one with an obviously paired name.

*Although I see you've run across my 54mm build thread (which, to answer your question, no, I haven't done much work on of late) - in that case, I did decide that Leander is a Wolf class, despite the fact that I absolutely have no plans to build a second.
But it was quite fun explaining why and how she had become (ahem) a lone wolf - actually, let's be honest, all of her background was fun to write. There is something really quite rewarding about assembling the legend of a four hundred tonne war machine.

Greavous
10-07-2015, 08:18
If you're getting looking to get fluff heavy and find an official titan, one consideration is that Wolf-class Warhounds are usually deployed in pairs* (see Wes' list of all of the ones from Vraks, which are actually named in said pairs), so if you're only buying the one Warhound, try looking for a Jackal or Mastiff variant.

That said, I'm not actually sure how or even if they can be visually identified when it comes to the Mars Pattern (although Forge World did show us Wolf and Jackal variants of the Lucius pattern, which had slightly different heads), but at the very least, don't pick one with an obviously paired name.

*Although I see you've run across my 54mm build thread (which, to answer your question, no, I haven't done much work on of late) - in that case, I did decide that Leander is a Wolf class, despite the fact that I absolutely have no plans to build a second.
But it was quite fun explaining why and how she had become (ahem) a lone wolf - actually, let's be honest, all of her background was fun to write. There is something really quite rewarding about assembling the legend of a four hundred tonne war machine.

ill remember marco thanks,
with the price of a titan it may be more realistic to find a partner willing to be the other titan either that or find a titan that his partner got destroyed*. but fluff wise im not aiming for 100% just abit more than its a titan, give my army abit of character and abit of a solid base to build from. some day id like to have a couple of warhounds , a reaver and a war lord just to play some scenarios from the stories, im sure this was much easier with epic 40k :p.

*yes i think your titan is really cool, especially because it actually mvoes/lgihts up, would be interesting to attempt that with the normal titan (gouge the plastic out) and mayeb even make it R/C (jsut the gun spining, lighting up, etc.

MarcoSkoll
10-07-2015, 17:11
with the price of a titan it may be more realistic to find a partner willing to be the other titan either that or find a titan that his partner got destroyed
Well, as I suggested, there are the Jackal and Mastiff variants, which do often operate on their own.

I'm just not certain how to tell the difference between those variants when it comes to the Mars Pattern, other than that Mastiffs will often have a Megabolter/Inferno gun combination (although it's not the weapon load-out that defines the class, it's just typical of the class) and that anything that's obviously paired is probably a Wolf variant.

EDIT: But yes, at least part of the story of Leander is that her sister titan got destroyed. Still, I did want to explain how she then came to be allowed to serve outside normal Legio doctrine.


yes i think your titan is really cool, especially because it actually mvoes/lgihts up, would be interesting to attempt that with the normal titan (gouge the plastic out) and mayeb even make it R/C (jsut the gun spining, lighting up, etc.
It'd probably be very tough to do with the 28mm version, as Leander's got a lot of extra space and doesn't need pre-existing parts to be hollowed out to fit motors, LEDs or circuits in.

Still, it'd certainly be an impressive feat if anyone could do it (even if it would be showing me up a little).

anselminus
11-07-2015, 16:29
I Just say Titan is for all Imperial army, just choose legio and lets go.
Concerning Tau we can imagine a desperate alliance against an enemy requiring a Tau / Imperium alliance.

For legio crucius here is my Warhound paint by Sigur.

216938

Greavous
16-07-2015, 08:27
and yesterday i was skimming throguh the skitaari codex when i came across something cool it went something like "the warp runners are the only titan legion with advanced enough technology to teleport their titans".
would this mean fluff wise i can deep strike a warhound?

jeffersonian000
16-07-2015, 20:01
and yesterday i was skimming throguh the skitaari codex when i came across something cool it went something like "the warp runners are the only titan legion with advanced enough technology to teleport their titans".
would this mean fluff wise i can deep strike a warhound?

Yes. Yes it does.

SJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Greavous
17-07-2015, 13:52
hmmm may take abit of convincing to get my opponent to let me drop a flamer titan 1" from his battle line and smoke them all.

but i did get to talk to alot of the guys at my club and no one minds me running a titan legion, even to just show up with it unannounced. they seem to have a great deal of expereince with downing titans. ive decided to go skitaari aswell seeing i can get a base formation for 3 rust stalkers and 1 infiltrator unit (i think). (gives 12" to their aura that makes everything -1 Bs, Ws ,I, LD)