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valtrius
06-07-2015, 16:24
Hello All,
Although I do not post regularly on this forum I am a frequent visitor. I would just like to post my observations about the AoS games this weekend and the uphill battle that GW has with this product.

First, I played one game this weekend. I really enjoyed it from a boom, bash, smash point of view. It moved fast, and was able to take all of my models I really like, and enjoyed painting. Terrorgheists, Nagash, zombie dragon, etc. that being said it is completely unbalanced. My undead that I took would have equated to about 2500 points in the last edition. My opponent took about 2500 points of last edition models also. I rolled him up in 3 turns, and I could see the look on his face of WTF just happened. He actually attempted to play a old school game of maneuver and tactics. While I think this game is really designed to just move across the table and hit stuff. It seemed to lack even a hint of strategy of the old game, even in the older editions 4th,5th,etc..

My final verdict was that while it is fun to play, it lacks real substance that I remember from the old Warhammer. It plays to much like a board game and not enough like a tabletop fantasy game. I will probably continue to play it while picking up games of 8th in between. I WILL NOT be buying the box set, partially because I do not find either of the two armies in it interesting; partially because I do not think this product will be around long enough to invest money in. After shelling out probably more than 400+ for the end times books and some models I feel like games workshop dropped the ball on this and really misjudged their customers reaction to this. I think they could have kept the older fluff, probably the best part of the game, and used some of the more streamlined rules for combat, shooting, magic, and maybe even the skirmish style unit formation and not alienated the older community while trying to entice the younger audience.

Secondly, I saw my friend who runs the local GW store struggle all weekend to entice some of the younger kids to play a quick game and get some of the walk ins to play. It really didn't work, the allure of the tanks and big guns I think are just to much for a fantasy setting to overcome. Most people looked at the models then looked at the 40k ones and gravitated to that product. Also, he was struggling to get the older players to play the new game. In the afternoon he actually had to stop the playing of 8th edition so he could run some Demos of AoS on the tables.

After he got off we had a long talk over some beers at the Thai restaurant next door. He blatantly said that this was the worse product release he ever had seen, he had ZERO pre-orders for the game. He said the board games for 40k even got pre orders. While he wasn't ready to throw in the towel on weekend one he said that it didn't look good for this product. In fact he was a bit concerned about his job if he wasn't able to push any of these box sets. We both agreed that while the rules were okay, they lacked the tactical feel of really commanding an army. We also agreed that with the younger generation tanks, starships, and rocket launchers are just more attractive to young kids. While the models are cool 40k is just a more appealing product to the younger kids. We both kind of agreed that GW screwed themselves on this product by alienating the veteran players.

I hope this isn't repeating itself around the globe. I really did love GW's fantasy setting from before. It looks like a tragic ending to a great setting, but hey warhammer was always a bleak setting.

HelloKitty
06-07-2015, 16:31
Our GW store sold 15 boxes on pre order and we had demos pretty much going all day.

The key for this game to survive is each city's community and how well organized the manager is and the event coordinators are.

if the event coordinator for your city says eff Age of Sigmar, it will pretty much fail. Our city and area we have people pushing it, so its doing a lot better but if we didn't have the group that we had it would probably also tank.

valtrius
06-07-2015, 16:34
One more thing we agreed upon was that the lack of transparency is really hurting this company. It really is probably one of the bigger issues that keeps fantasy customers from wantif to invest in this product. I don't think they need to disclose everything, but being so secretive is only hurting them.

Drakkar du Chaos
06-07-2015, 16:35
Thanks but im sick about "kids prefer science fiction". What about Lord of the Rings ? What about WoW ? What about Diablo ? What about Game of Thrones ?

If AoS is a fail its not because its "fantasy". Fantasy sell *********** well when the product is good.

Whirlwind
06-07-2015, 16:38
Hi

Thanks for this information. It was the one thing that was missing in the information we had was how well the product was actually selling. It appears in this case at least the sales figures relate to general reaction. It's a worrying sign that there were more games of 8th than there were AoS. Of course he may also be seeing an issue in relation to GWs store policy in that there are no discounts and hence any older players are likely to go to independents with the discounts they offer. It would be interesting to hear from other store owners whether they were having difficulties in selling the product.

Hopefully it won't affect his job and that his sales of 40k are enough. If the trend is the same across all GW stores then it would be difficult justifying any removal as it should highlight an issue with the product not the staff.

Shandor
06-07-2015, 16:40
Hello All,
Although I do not post regularly on this forum I am a frequent visitor. I would just like to post my observations about the AoS games this weekend and the uphill battle that GW has with this product.

First, I played one game this weekend. I really enjoyed it from a boom, bash, smash point of view. It moved fast, and was able to take all of my models I really like, and enjoyed painting. Terrorgheists, Nagash, zombie dragon, etc. that being said it is completely unbalanced. My undead that I took would have equated to about 2500 points in the last edition. My opponent took about 2500 points of last edition models also. I rolled him up in 3 turns, and I could see the look on his face of WTF just happened. He actually attempted to play a old school game of maneuver and tactics. While I think this game is really designed to just move across the table and hit stuff. It seemed to lack even a hint of strategy of the old game, even in the older editions 4th,5th,etc..

My final verdict was that while it is fun to play, it lacks real substance that I remember from the old Warhammer. It plays to much like a board game and not enough like a tabletop fantasy game. I will probably continue to play it while picking up games of 8th in between. I WILL NOT be buying the box set, partially because I do not find either of the two armies in it interesting; partially because I do not think this product will be around long enough to invest money in. After shelling out probably more than 400+ for the end times books and some models I feel like games workshop dropped the ball on this and really misjudged their customers reaction to this. I think they could have kept the older fluff, probably the best part of the game, and used some of the more streamlined rules for combat, shooting, magic, and maybe even the skirmish style unit formation and not alienated the older community while trying to entice the younger audience.

Secondly, I saw my friend who runs the local GW store struggle all weekend to entice some of the younger kids to play a quick game and get some of the walk ins to play. It really didn't work, the allure of the tanks and big guns I think are just to much for a fantasy setting to overcome. Most people looked at the models then looked at the 40k ones and gravitated to that product. Also, he was struggling to get the older players to play the new game. In the afternoon he actually had to stop the playing of 8th edition so he could run some Demos of AoS on the tables.

After he got off we had a long talk over some beers at the Thai restaurant next door. He blatantly said that this was the worse product release he ever had seen, he had ZERO pre-orders for the game. He said the board games for 40k even got pre orders. While he wasn't ready to throw in the towel on weekend one he said that it didn't look good for this product. In fact he was a bit concerned about his job if he wasn't able to push any of these box sets. We both agreed that while the rules were okay, they lacked the tactical feel of really commanding an army. We also agreed that with the younger generation tanks, starships, and rocket launchers are just more attractive to young kids. While the models are cool 40k is just a more appealing product to the younger kids. We both kind of agreed that GW screwed themselves on this product by alienating the veteran players.

I hope this isn't repeating itself around the globe. I really did love GW's fantasy setting from before. It looks like a tragic ending to a great setting, but hey warhammer was always a bleak setting.

Good post. I thank you for that.

I had some Chat with someone working in a Games Workshop too.
He tolt me that its hard for him selling a Product he dont really like himself. He has to tell everyone how awesome it is and that everyone has alot of fun with it. And he feels bad because he is forced to lie to Peoples.

The Box sells not bad here. But there are not many peoples want to play them just paint them.

Whirlwind
06-07-2015, 16:40
What about Game of Thrones ?

Game of thrones is for kids???? Not sure this is the target audience for this franchise? I understand what you are saying for the rest though.

valtrius
06-07-2015, 17:25
Game if thrones is definetly not for kids.

Also, I believe this games target audience is probably between 12-18. The game really lacks high level strategy that the previous games have. The most strategic thing about it is when to use your characters uber command ability. I think it's biggest selling factor is that the models are awesome. I just personally don't think that bodes well to keeping customers coming back, you have to be able to find a happy medium.

Also fantasy doesn't sell seems to be true? What other fantasy tabletop game is doing awesome? Don't say warmachine or hordes. That is more steampunk a sci-fi. Kow is a small game, their really isn't any other fantasy battle game that sells other than warhammer and it is dying off in favor of 40k. If a company says that it sells more paint that it does fantasy models something is wrong. While I agree that fantasy needed a change I think this was not very well thought through.

Sheriff0fNottingham
06-07-2015, 17:35
Did GW really think people will be ecstatic by simply putting up a couple of blue card board signs with zero info about the product?

The lack of information is the reason for the lack of preorders.

duffybear1988
06-07-2015, 17:44
It's an interesting point. Nobody works for GW unless they like 40k or Fantasy. This isn't a business like Asda or Topshop where people just work because they want money. Now if the staff themselves hate it, what does that say about the product?

The guy in my local store is awesome fun to talk to normally and when I saw him at the weekend he was totally dejected because he had sold 1 copy from the shelves and 2 preorders.

When I went to the indie store it was the same. All their copies of WD were gone but nobody had bought the starter.

This argument that the game isn't for veterans is fine, but in that case it is not for the staff either. It makes absolutely no sense.

Ah well at least they can blame the poor sales on the Greek crisis. It's what they normally do.

El_Commi
06-07-2015, 17:48
One more thing we agreed upon was that the lack of transparency is really hurting this company. It really is probably one of the bigger issues that keeps fantasy customers from wantif to invest in this product. I don't think they need to disclose everything, but being so secretive is only hurting them.

This is the main issue I think.
More is definitly coming (I cant wait to see wahts being done with the undead), but as it stands I'm disappointed but waiting to see.
Communication could really help alleviate many peoples concerns.

valtrius
06-07-2015, 18:13
I am apprehensive and excited at the same time to see what will happen moving forward. I like the idea of factions more and more and the game does flow rather well. I do like the simplified magic, and hit/wound/save. Coming from someone who played a magic heavy undead list I think the simplification of magic makes the game more predictable and less boom bust of 8th. I just wish that they would actually do a real sit and speak with their customers. I mean just do a 30 minute podcast explain the changes and explain what is coming. You don't have to give away everything, you just need to make it clear that the company IS GOING TO SUPPORT THIS PRODUCT AND ITS FANS!!!!!

dragonelf
06-07-2015, 18:19
When your store managers don't believe in it then you really are doomed. Someone high up in GW strategy will get it for this. because it is one thing to bring a new system in, but quite another to ditch an established one AND bring a new one in. If this nosedives then GW will have no credible fantasy game at all. It does beggar belief though. Schoolboy strategy for a massive company. Even if what is to come is awesome, the pre-launch management has been atrocious. No wonder they're in trouble financially. Amateurs.

Philhelm
06-07-2015, 18:46
When your store managers don't believe in it then you really are doomed. Someone high up in GW strategy will get it for this. because it is one thing to bring a new system in, but quite another to ditch an established one AND bring a new one in. If this nosedives then GW will have no credible fantasy game at all. It does beggar belief though. Schoolboy strategy for a massive company. Even if what is to come is awesome, the pre-launch management has been atrocious. No wonder they're in trouble financially. Amateurs.

It really is mind-boggling. I'm not GW's number one customer, but I was regularly spending around $100 or so per month on their products. After the big rumors that were released here after Christmas, I immediately halted all spending since I had no idea of what the future of the game would bring. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has limited or halted spending.

It's insane that they don't communicate more with their customers, or even really make more than a half-assed attempt to market the game better. All of this uncertainty makes me hesitant to invest, especially with the cluster that is the new rules. If they are coming with an "advanced edition" then it should have been released at the same time as the Age of Sigmar boxed set. But that's a big if anyway.

taurus-marstein
06-07-2015, 19:15
I bet you that they lost half of the usual fantasy revenue due to people "waiting to see what the future will bring"... well all the cautious people were basically right to be cautious

valtrius
06-07-2015, 19:48
I agree with Philhelm's statements about spending money on releases of end times. I really wanted to get one of the new bloodthirsters, although I didn't because I was reading these rumors thinking "wow what is coming is going to change everything". I just couldn't bring myself to spend 100 on a model I may use one time, no matter how awesome it looks. I don't play 40k so the chance of me crossing over and using it their was non-existent. Hell my local store had a ongoing end-times campaign unfolding. When Archaon came out everyone took a step back and said "wow the rumors were true". I kid you not the campaign flat lined after that.

Age of Sigmar may have cool mini's, but if GW doesn't explain better to customers what is coming they will see the fantasy player base erode. If this game was meant to be played by yourself it wouldn't be such a problem. Seeing that it takes two to tango in this game I think they need to address issues with the current customers. unless they really just don't care about veteran players, and they think we are the cause of this mess.