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Captain Idaho
08-07-2015, 08:47
So I just wanted to do what I said I would and admit I was wrong.

For background, reading the rumours and counter rumours, I read the stuff that turned out true and couldn't believe it. It was absurd. It was unfathomable at the time to think GW would do what they have now done.

I rejected the lunacy and was hostile to those who I regarded were "making it up".

I was wrong.

The rumours were true. Warhammer Fantasy died as a supported product and was replaced with a remedial wargame.

I publicly apologise for reacting the way I did and thank you for giving us the heads up.

And I still am in shock at the business decisions on parade right now. Maybe we'll have an xbox moment and see a U turn...

Losing Command
08-07-2015, 08:53
These days it is better to expect GW being capable of doing anything. You're far from the only one thinking GW wasn't going to do something the way they did. If the one man stores will turn into recruiting centres for an invasion of the northpole next week I'll be the last one to be suprised :p

Harwammer
08-07-2015, 09:12
Zero man stores. No product on the shelves, just an order point and a secure/collection box to pick up your things from. Maybe a vending machine to sell non-age restricted hobby supplies like paint. Security is dealt with by the building manager (open/lock up, cctv, etc)... you heard it here first!

duffybear1988
08-07-2015, 09:49
So I just wanted to do what I said I would and admit I was wrong.

For background, reading the rumours and counter rumours, I read the stuff that turned out true and couldn't believe it. It was absurd. It was unfathomable at the time to think GW would do what they have now done.

I rejected the lunacy and was hostile to those who I regarded were "making it up".

I was wrong.

The rumours were true. Warhammer Fantasy died as a supported product and was replaced with a remedial wargame.

I publicly apologise for reacting the way I did and thank you for giving us the heads up.

And I still am in shock at the business decisions on parade right now. Maybe we'll have an xbox moment and see a U turn...

:yes: I totally get where you were coming from.

MiyamatoMusashi
08-07-2015, 10:00
Class act from the OP. Nice one.

Shame there's so many still saying "wait and see!" instead of accepting that we have waited and we have seen.

Darnok
08-07-2015, 10:27
Noted and appreciated. Thanks. :)

I still feel a bit like it was a late April Fools joke - with the main difference being that on April 1st nobody would have believed what GW has actually brought out. Just for a moment contemplate everything from July 4th had happened on April 1st: people would have applauded GW for the extremely well done joke. And that it would have been.

But it is for real. I still do not want to believe it. :(

logan054
08-07-2015, 10:27
So I just wanted to do what I said I would and admit I was wrong.

For background, reading the rumours and counter rumours, I read the stuff that turned out true and couldn't believe it. It was absurd. It was unfathomable at the time to think GW would do what they have now done.

I rejected the lunacy and was hostile to those who I regarded were "making it up".

I was wrong.

The rumours were true. Warhammer Fantasy died as a supported product and was replaced with a remedial wargame.

I publicly apologise for reacting the way I did and thank you for giving us the heads up.

And I still am in shock at the business decisions on parade right now. Maybe we'll have an xbox moment and see a U turn...

Nothing wrong with holding out hope, tried that myself, I think a lot of the rumours had most people in shock.

It's not so bad, plenty more games to try out :)

Kegslayer
08-07-2015, 10:31
Haven't people got over this yet. Its just a game. Games change all the time

Noodle!
08-07-2015, 10:36
Kegslayer, to many people it's obviously more than just a game. It's a hobby and a big part of their lives.

Cheeslord
08-07-2015, 10:37
It is a bold experiment, and these are interesting times... let's just see how it plays out...

Mark.

Captain Idaho
08-07-2015, 10:48
Thank you for accepting my apology. It's easier to give an apology than truly forgive and accept one.

Drakkar du Chaos
08-07-2015, 12:02
Haven't people got over this yet. Its just a game. Games change all the time

It will be just a game when miniatures cost 5x less and are pre-painted.

TheFang
08-07-2015, 12:03
Haven't people got over this yet. Its just a game.

A game people have invested up to thirty years of hobby time into. Oh, and it's not a complete game.:p
Thank you for accepting my apology. It's easier to give an apology than truly forgive and accept one.
Nothing to apologise for. No one really believed they could can warhammer and release such a poorly thought out product. "There must be more" only seemed reasonable.

Only Harry and Hastings in their John the Baptist role seem to have really appreciated the pants on head approach GW were taking. Everyone else was hoping for hyperbole and exaggeration when actually the scale of the Apocalypse was underplayed.

samael
08-07-2015, 12:06
Haven't people got over this yet. Its just a game. Games change all the time

Uhm no. A game I play out of the box ready and done. This has been my hobby for almost 26 years, a completely different animal.

Reinholt
08-07-2015, 13:21
Noted and appreciated. Thanks. :)

I still feel a bit like it was a late April Fools joke - with the main difference being that on April 1st nobody would have believed what GW has actually brought out. Just for a moment contemplate everything from July 4th had happened on April 1st: people would have applauded GW for the extremely well done joke. And that it would have been.

But it is for real. I still do not want to believe it. :(

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

This is why I have frozen all my HH and 40k projects. If GW is willing to go this aggressively into pants-on-head territory, my gaming money is going to other companies.

evilsponge
08-07-2015, 13:23
So I just wanted to do what I said I would and admit I was wrong.

For background, reading the rumours and counter rumours, I read the stuff that turned out true and couldn't believe it. It was absurd. It was unfathomable at the time to think GW would do what they have now done.

I rejected the lunacy and was hostile to those who I regarded were "making it up".

I was wrong.

The rumours were true. Warhammer Fantasy died as a supported product and was replaced with a remedial wargame.

I publicly apologise for reacting the way I did and thank you for giving us the heads up.

And I still am in shock at the business decisions on parade right now. Maybe we'll have an xbox moment and see a U turn...

Don't sweat it, GW's secrecy and contempt for its fans creates a air of suspicion and distrust in its community. Its a natural reaction.

heavyheart
08-07-2015, 17:27
Haven't people got over this yet. Its just a game. Games change all the time

I think the when you've played 10,20 or even 30 years it's a big part of your life and to suddenly see it die is bound to hurt, even more so when the replacement is an obvious insult to veterans.

Kegslayer
08-07-2015, 17:29
Possibly. I've been playing 20 years. It doesn't bother me though. Everything has a life expectancy. That's life

Nightfall Shimmer
08-07-2015, 17:52
This very month would mark my 20th year playing Warhammer. I had fun and will remember the past glories, as I take to new battlefields in the Age of Sigmar. (Well, my first proper game will be on Saturday...) I shall endevour to remember the good times, rather than the bad. But in the end, I'm not bothered by it's loss. The game was getting pretty stale across the board, aside from models.

AngryAngel
08-07-2015, 17:59
It happens to us all OP, they even catch me with the complete insanity of their choices sometimes. I've taken to accept whatever the most off the wall thing they could do is, and it is likely the truth. Hasn't let me down so far...so..far. I'm just waiting for the 40k end times, people say it won't happen, I think that is exactly why it must.

Darnok
08-07-2015, 18:30
Possibly. I've been playing 20 years. It doesn't bother me though. Everything has a life expectancy. That's life

I guess you're a charming guest on any funeral.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 18:43
I guess you're a charming guest on any funeral.

Ha! He's not wrong though, Darnok...we're not talking life and death, we're talking Business 101: planned obsolescence. While the rare games (Chess? Checkers? Dating?) have lasted for millenia, most products aren't like that. Speaking as someone that has spent thousands of dollars and hours on the hobby, I see this as a way to a) bring new ideas into the fantasy oevre, and b) reduce the ridiculous barriers to entry that the hobby has constructed. The way I see it, this gives me an opportunity to start my young sons out on the hobby at a lower price point, and to try something new. As for my 4e-->8e models, I still have the old rule sets and Kings of War on pre-order!

Northern Watch.

AngryAngel
08-07-2015, 19:08
That is all well and good, but the barrier is just as high as it ever has been. The new kits will be even more expensive then the old, and the books ever more costly and probably more frequent as the only way to truly find army creation balance will end up with the scenarios in the books. Still as expensive or more so then it ever was, as not many are going to be just picking up one or two boxes to play the game. Perhaps they can say it will be cheaper, but really I think such is self delusion, from what we've seen. Devaluing my old models actually makes this change over cost me even if I don't buy anything new from them, while also making me use a different rule set for my old models as they squat the old lines.

Take it all into account, and it is a lie for multiple reasons. They said, long time ago, they'd never squat another army, now they've squatted a bunch, all at once. So they lied there, pull you along saying how it'll be fine, cheaper entry, new blood. Ripping apart their game, doesn't change the high barrier of entry cost and how the little ones won't still be able to really pick up all the rapid fire releases, anymore then they could make their giant armies.

I just had to comment, as I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I keep hearing " Cheaper, cheaper, lower entry point " it is creepy.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 19:14
That is all well and good, but the barrier is just as high as it ever has been. The new kits will be even more expensive then the old, and the books ever more costly and probably more frequent as the only way to truly find army creation balance will end up with the scenarios in the books. Still as expensive or more so then it ever was, as not many are going to be just picking up one or two boxes to play the game. Perhaps they can say it will be cheaper, but really I think such is self delusion, from what we've seen. Devaluing my old models actually makes this change over cost me even if I don't buy anything new from them, while also making me use a different rule set for my old models as they squat the old lines.

But with a warscroll system, you can try out the system with one or two boxes, and a free pdf. With WHFB, two boxes of Wildwood Rangers gets you...twenty pretty miniatures with nothing to do without dropping an extra $120 on rules and $150 on miniatures. Also, "devaluing my old models" - really? Have you seen the price of old Warmaster blisters on Ebay lately? If anything, this will increase the value of your recently-antiqued armies!

TheFang
08-07-2015, 19:15
I see this as a way to a) bring new ideas into the fantasy oevre, and b) reduce the ridiculous barriers to entry that the hobby has constructed..
a) Space Marines?
b) The barrier to entry is now the highest (in ) it's ever been with the most expensive starter ever. The starter set lacks coherent rules for the new player. It lacks the measuring device for the different separations.

But with a warscroll system, you can try out the system with one or two boxes, and a free pdf.

But the game is unplayable. Imagine handing that game over to two reasonably intelligent twelve year olds. People on here are trying to house rule it so it makes sense. What chance do two new kids have?

AngryAngel
08-07-2015, 19:18
You could have always tried the game system out with just a few boxes before. It doesn't matter of the free pdf when if you were getting in, it was because you'd have friends already playing, of them I am sure one had a rule book. I just think it will end up " smaller " but won't stay that way for long and the mantra of " lower entry point " doesn't mean a whole lot at the end of the day.

Voss
08-07-2015, 19:27
Ha! He's not wrong though, Darnok...we're not talking life and death, we're talking Business 101: planned obsolescence.

I'm missing the 'planned' part somewhere. For nigh on thirty years, its been a single direction with modifications happening every few years, but only modifications (even though some of them were bad or clueless). This is a sudden, and to many, frankly unbelievable change in direction. As someone who actually wanted some of these changes in principle, I'm baffled by the way they did it, and throwing the good parts out with the bad, while leaving some of the really fetid concepts around to linger and poison the new direction.

Further, they had a decent planned obsolescence strategy in place. Every 3-6 years (on average, with obvious exceptions) they got people to re-buy new versions of the same old stuff, and buy more of stuff they already had, or break out into new armies. Now they've set all that on fire, and just pushed people away in hopes that brand new customers will erupt in a bizarre case of spontaneous generation. Reeks more of last minute desperation than planning.
`

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 19:29
I've got more confidence in the capacity of two 12 year-olds to make sense of a new system than I do two aggrieved 37 year-olds who have spent 25 years playing with ostensibly the same rules.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 19:36
I'm missing the 'planned' part somewhere. For nigh on thirty years, its been a single direction with modifications happening every few years, but only modifications (even though some of them were bad or clueless). This is a sudden, and to many, frankly unbelievable change in direction. As someone who actually wanted some of these changes in principle, I'm baffled by the way they did it, and throwing the good parts out with the bad, while leaving some of the really fetid concepts around to linger and poison the new direction.

Further, they had a decent planned obsolescence strategy in place. Every 3-6 years (on average, with obvious exceptions) they got people to re-buy new versions of the same old stuff, and buy more of stuff they already had, or break out into new armies. Now they've set all that on fire, and just pushed people away in hopes that brand new customers will erupt in a bizarre case of spontaneous generation. Reeks more of last minute desperation than planning.
`

It's the difference between incremental and radical innovation/change. Think of the transition from prop engines to jet engines, or from vinyl to digital...not everyone cared for the change, but the people that adapted to the change seemed to do rather well. Now, don't get me wrong: Age of Sigmar may turn out to be an evolutionary dead-end, and that's fine. What I'm not willing to do is to kvetch about a company trying out something different--more power to them for having the stones to do it, rather than pandering to an aging bunch of neckbeards. And besides, a company that makes more of its money from licensing and other product lines doesn't seem "desperate" to me...

Voss
08-07-2015, 19:39
I've got more confidence in the capacity of two 12 year-olds to make sense of a new system than I do two aggrieved 37 year-olds who have spent 25 years playing with ostensibly the same rules.

Huzzah? Making sense of the 'system' is easy, especially given how little there is. The business decisions less so.

Mawduce
08-07-2015, 19:41
I've got more confidence in the capacity of two 12 year-olds to make sense of a new system than I do two aggrieved 37 year-olds who have spent 25 years playing with ostensibly the same rules.

Until you factor in those two 37 year olds have something invested in making it work. They will do whatever it takes to make their investment not go to waste. Those two 12 year olds are gonna try to play it, house rule some stuff and never pick it up again because the next call of duty, destiny, battlefield, dragon age, skyrim, fallout, witcher, mario cart releases next month.

williamsond
08-07-2015, 19:54
I think with age of sigmar they have tried to build themselves a ladder out of the hole they have dug over the last decade... unfortunately rather than build a ladder GW seems to have got a bit overzealous and built a cage instead. I would love it if a full set of rules making the game playable appeared but lets face it it's not AoS is here to stay and whlie i can see what they were trying to do I really think they have screwed the pooch.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 20:02
Until you factor in those two 37 year olds have something invested in making it work. They will do whatever it takes to make their investment not go to waste. Those two 12 year olds are gonna try to play it, house rule some stuff and never pick it up again because the next call of duty, destiny, battlefield, dragon age, skyrim, fallout, witcher, mario cart releases next month.

Or in other words:

216749

TheFang
08-07-2015, 20:07
It's the difference between incremental and radical innovation/change. Think of the transition from prop engines to jet engines, or from vinyl to digital...not everyone cared for the change, but the people that adapted to the change seemed to do rather well.
Hilarious.

How long have you worked for GW?

Scribe of Khorne
08-07-2015, 20:10
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

This is why I have frozen all my HH and 40k projects. If GW is willing to go this aggressively into pants-on-head territory, my gaming money is going to other companies.

And this, is the reality right here.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 20:27
Hilarious.

How long have you worked for GW?

Not a GW employee, nor do I work for their competitors. Look: I understand the (nerd)rage around these boards, I get it. I'm sure the reaction would have been the same if the Interwebs were around when the squats were squatted. But is a bit of tempered consideration about a brand new game too much to ask? I for one want to wait and see what the new other armies look like before dismissing what is likely to be a rather fecund release schedule. I wager that there are more than a few aggrieved posters who will be quietly picking up this system once their favorite armies are released. While I don't necessarily trust the management, I do have more trust in the sculptors.

TheFang
08-07-2015, 20:37
Not a GW employee, nor do I work for their competitors.

I'm just curious as to why a long dormant account would suddenly appear to make cheap shots about nerd rage and post the same grumpy old men jpg repeatedly.

swordofglass
08-07-2015, 21:00
I understand the (nerd)rage around these boards

What is nerd-rage and how is it different from normal rage? Seems to be a rather hypocritical dig at people who don't like things in a 'nerdy' hobby. The attitude the word conveys is like "Hey you may have spent a total of 500 hours assembling and painting these models, given up hundreds of evenings of your life to play games with them, written army lists in your spare time, read the books, gone to conventions, had thousands of conversations and debates about the background, models, and rules... buuuut if you express dissatisfaction or, god forbid, get 'worked up' at all about changes you hate, then you're being a nerd who just spends too much time doing nerdy stuff. You should 'play it cool' and even feign disinterest, as to do otherwise makes you seem too 'nerdy'. You're only allowed to feel 'rage' for things not connected to this nerdy hobby - things which you've probably devoted a lot less time too..."

Just an (overthought) thought that occurred to me about the use of the term nerd-rage, not necessarily directed at you in particular by the way.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 21:04
I'm just curious as to why a long dormant account would suddenly appear to make cheap shots about nerd rage and post the same grumpy old men jpg repeatedly.

An identity conspiracy theory? How exciting. The rather boring truth is that I got bored with 7th edition, and too busy to keep posting about a hand I wasn't playing. I was playing Confrontation and Napoleonics, but got pulled back to fantasy with the End Times books. This new system intrigues me, and I'll give it a year or two as a trial. I've used the old man image twice, because it amuses me, and I'm calling nerd rage because that's what I see.

Finally, the inference that only people with a regular and sustained presence on this board have room to comment is the same type of venal insularity that weakened the appeal of our dearly departed WHFB.

Ayin
08-07-2015, 21:10
It's strangely extremely important for some members of a community to do whatever they can to seperate themselves from other members of the same community and attempt to solidify that perceived difference with insulting slang terms for the disliked 'other'. It's a very interesting study and it goes far beyond gaming, but as the internet is the internet, it's most often seen applied in gaming circles.

Thus, the players, who would otherwise simply be part of the same social group as those they disagree with, attempt to seperate themselves (in their own eyes, but more importantly in the eyes of those they feel are not part of the social group or community as a whole but whose acceptance the original group feels is important) from the other group by labeling it 'the other' and making sure to place these 'others' below themselves using terms like "neckbeard", "nerdrage", and an ever evolving series of meant to be demeaning terms.

On one hand it's funny. On the other hand, seeing internet communication be used in an attempt for individuals to empower themselves by enforcing tribalism is also very sad.

Captain Idaho
08-07-2015, 21:12
Not a GW employee, nor do I work for their competitors. Look: I understand the (nerd)rage around these boards, I get it. I'm sure the reaction would have been the same if the Interwebs were around when the squats were squatted. But is a bit of tempered consideration about a brand new game too much to ask? I for one want to wait and see what the new other armies look like before dismissing what is likely to be a rather fecund release schedule. I wager that there are more than a few aggrieved posters who will be quietly picking up this system once their favorite armies are released. While I don't necessarily trust the management, I do have more trust in the sculptors.

I used to be enthusiastic but this game is just... uh. You're admitting the game isn't up to scratch so we should be be patient? Yeah, and I should be leaving my brand new video game for a couple months until they bring out more content I have to pay ffor just to make it playable?

I reject both circumstances.

I for one will NOT be giving GW my money until the game is worthwhile again. If it ain't fixed, I won't be quietly picking up a thing.

Buddy Bear
08-07-2015, 21:14
What weakened Warhammer Fantasy was GW's incompetence, and not the fan community. That they're making less money on 40k as well, in a year in which they released Eldar, Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Knights, and Space Marines, highlights that fact nicely. GW ran Warhammer Fantasy into the ground, they're on their way to doing it with 40k, and will do it with Age of Sigmar, all while the miniature gaming industry as a whole is seeing growth and increased profits.

Tae
08-07-2015, 21:17
It's strangely extremely important for some members of a community to do whatever they can to seperate themselves from other members of the same community and attempt to solidify that perceived difference with insulting slang terms for the disliked 'other'. It's a very interesting study and it goes far beyond gaming, but as the internet is the internet, it's most often seen applied in gaming circles.

Thus, the players, who would otherwise simply be part of the same social group as those they disagree with, attempt to seperate themselves (in their own eyes, but more importantly in the eyes of those they feel are not part of the social group or community as a whole but whose acceptance the original group feels is important) from the other group by labeling it 'the other' and making sure to place these 'others' below themselves using terms like "neckbeard", "nerdrage", and an ever evolving series of meant to be demeaning terms.

On one hand it's funny. On the other hand, seeing internet communication be used in an attempt for individuals to empower themselves by enforcing tribalism is also very sad.

I agree, and find it equally sad that this time last week the shoe was in the other foot with everyone who proclaimed a 'wait and see' approach was labelled a white knight/GW apologist.

Honestly I think these boards are coming close to something of a tipping point in terms of AoS and the various reactions to it. Some people are genuinely interested in it and deserve to be able to have productive and enthusiastic conversations about it whilst others who dislike everything it stands for deserve to be able to have conversations about how/why they dislike it.

Both are fine and acceptable points of view to hold and people need to realise and accept that and stop hijacking the other threads. Anyone who cannot restrain themselves would do everyone, from every 'side', a favour by stopping posting.

Voss
08-07-2015, 21:18
While I don't necessarily trust the management, I do have more trust in the sculptors.
What do the sculptors have to do with anything? They aren't decision makers, they don't design the games, they don't set the prices. They get handed concept art and are told to get to work. No matter how much trust you have in them, their contribution to the release schedule is nil.


But is a bit of tempered consideration about a brand new game too much to ask?
Not at all. But we've seen the game now, and had time to give it due consideration. This thread is, in fact, a result of the OP giving the game on offer more thought.

Northern_Watch
08-07-2015, 21:23
As a nerd, I'm going to get really excited if this moves to become a Senate on Said's Orientalism! Until it does, I'll simply restate my main point through all of this: give the new game a chance to develop, and don't sound so dusty in your derision of this shiny new thing.

jtrowell
08-07-2015, 21:23
It's the difference between incremental and radical innovation/change. Think of the transition from prop engines to jet engines, or from vinyl to digital...not everyone cared for the change, but the people that adapted to the change seemed to do rather well.

If it was only change, it might have been acceptable, but here they delivered such a half-assed product that it feel, to continue your exemple, like if they have been selling jet engines and suddenly released a steam engine on the market, and no it's not a revolutionnary steam engine that renew the concept, just a plain old model with tech from the 19th century, better looking but not working any better. :cries:

duffybear1988
08-07-2015, 22:41
I agree, and find it equally sad that this time last week the shoe was in the other foot with everyone who proclaimed a 'wait and see' approach was labelled a white knight/GW apologist.

Honestly I think these boards are coming close to something of a tipping point in terms of AoS and the various reactions to it. Some people are genuinely interested in it and deserve to be able to have productive and enthusiastic conversations about it whilst others who dislike everything it stands for deserve to be able to have conversations about how/why they dislike it.

Both are fine and acceptable points of view to hold and people need to realise and accept that and stop hijacking the other threads. Anyone who cannot restrain themselves would do everyone, from every 'side', a favour by stopping posting.

That's funny because I also remember a lot of people calling the naysayers trolls and telling them to leave the forum completely because we couldn't possibly be right in our conclusions that the game was pants on head hilariously stupid.

Of course as soon as it hit midnight we were proved entirely right.

Plus don't you see the irony in posting that in this thread?

jet_palero
08-07-2015, 22:48
So I just wanted to do what I said I would and admit I was wrong.

For background, reading the rumours and counter rumours, I read the stuff that turned out true and couldn't believe it. It was absurd. It was unfathomable at the time to think GW would do what they have now done.

I rejected the lunacy and was hostile to those who I regarded were "making it up".

I was wrong.

The rumours were true. Warhammer Fantasy died as a supported product and was replaced with a remedial wargame.

I publicly apologise for reacting the way I did and thank you for giving us the heads up.

And I still am in shock at the business decisions on parade right now. Maybe we'll have an xbox moment and see a U turn...

Not common to find people willing to admit they made a mistake these days. Good on you. And we can only hope for a U-turn, but I doubt it. GW has hit the I believe button so hard on AoS they changed the STATUE outside their office.

Sexiest_hero
08-07-2015, 22:54
I feel your pain OP, I made a thread about eating crow after being the #1 guy draging the "Spanish rumors" through the mud.

mbh1127
08-07-2015, 23:42
Not a GW employee, nor do I work for their competitors. Look: I understand the (nerd)rage around these boards, I get it. I'm sure the reaction would have been the same if the Interwebs were around when the squats were squatted. But is a bit of tempered consideration about a brand new game too much to ask? I for one want to wait and see what the new other armies look like before dismissing what is likely to be a rather fecund release schedule. I wager that there are more than a few aggrieved posters who will be quietly picking up this system once their favorite armies are released. While I don't necessarily trust the management, I do have more trust in the sculptors.

nah

I was there and nobody really cared. Not even my buddy with a squat army.

Mawduce
09-07-2015, 00:50
nah

I was there and nobody really cared. Not even my buddy with a squat army.

Brain Williams, is that you?

AngryAngel
09-07-2015, 01:04
I've got more confidence in the capacity of two 12 year-olds to make sense of a new system than I do two aggrieved 37 year-olds who have spent 25 years playing with ostensibly the same rules.

Well everyone is entitled to be wrong, having seen 12 year olds play games, I have less faith.


It's the difference between incremental and radical innovation/change. Think of the transition from prop engines to jet engines, or from vinyl to digital...not everyone cared for the change, but the people that adapted to the change seemed to do rather well. Now, don't get me wrong: Age of Sigmar may turn out to be an evolutionary dead-end, and that's fine. What I'm not willing to do is to kvetch about a company trying out something different--more power to them for having the stones to do it, rather than pandering to an aging bunch of neckbeards. And besides, a company that makes more of its money from licensing and other product lines doesn't seem "desperate" to me...

So, now the change from 8th to AoS is akin to a startling innovation and path to the bright future ? When the game becomes the next coming, I'll know it has gone too far. As well, I do still and always love how those who have supported the company for some decades, are now loathsome creatures to be derided and hated. As well, I say again, neckbeard is the dumbest saying in all creation. #TakeBacktheBeard



I'm just curious as to why a long dormant account would suddenly appear to make cheap shots about nerd rage and post the same grumpy old men jpg repeatedly.

Because it is funny to insult anyone who dislikes the system, make funny names and show funny pictures, that way their opinion has no value. Obviously this guy knows the truth, he's very classy.



What is nerd-rage and how is it different from normal rage? Seems to be a rather hypocritical dig at people who don't like things in a 'nerdy' hobby. The attitude the word conveys is like "Hey you may have spent a total of 500 hours assembling and painting these models, given up hundreds of evenings of your life to play games with them, written army lists in your spare time, read the books, gone to conventions, had thousands of conversations and debates about the background, models, and rules... buuuut if you express dissatisfaction or, god forbid, get 'worked up' at all about changes you hate, then you're being a nerd who just spends too much time doing nerdy stuff. You should 'play it cool' and even feign disinterest, as to do otherwise makes you seem too 'nerdy'. You're only allowed to feel 'rage' for things not connected to this nerdy hobby - things which you've probably devoted a lot less time too..."

Just an (overthought) thought that occurred to me about the use of the term nerd-rage, not necessarily directed at you in particular by the way.

It is simply to make light of your/anyones annoyance out of hand as being pointless, stupid, or without merit.


An identity conspiracy theory? How exciting. The rather boring truth is that I got bored with 7th edition, and too busy to keep posting about a hand I wasn't playing. I was playing Confrontation and Napoleonics, but got pulled back to fantasy with the End Times books. This new system intrigues me, and I'll give it a year or two as a trial. I've used the old man image twice, because it amuses me, and I'm calling nerd rage because that's what I see.

Finally, the inference that only people with a regular and sustained presence on this board have room to comment is the same type of venal insularity that weakened the appeal of our dearly departed WHFB.

So yet again, we come to the very clever attack on the player base as the reason why the game failed, as opposed to the company itself and the poor decisions they made, it is all and only our fault.

Hey, I hate to break it to you, just because you can't fathom or see a reason people are pissed, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't important to them and all the old man pics and attacks on people you do doesn't make your point more valid or theirs less so. Keep up the attacks however, would hate to feel anyone stopped you from being a real gentleman.



It's strangely extremely important for some members of a community to do whatever they can to seperate themselves from other members of the same community and attempt to solidify that perceived difference with insulting slang terms for the disliked 'other'. It's a very interesting study and it goes far beyond gaming, but as the internet is the internet, it's most often seen applied in gaming circles.

Thus, the players, who would otherwise simply be part of the same social group as those they disagree with, attempt to seperate themselves (in their own eyes, but more importantly in the eyes of those they feel are not part of the social group or community as a whole but whose acceptance the original group feels is important) from the other group by labeling it 'the other' and making sure to place these 'others' below themselves using terms like "neckbeard", "nerdrage", and an ever evolving series of meant to be demeaning terms.

On one hand it's funny. On the other hand, seeing internet communication be used in an attempt for individuals to empower themselves by enforcing tribalism is also very sad.

Completely agree


That's funny because I also remember a lot of people calling the naysayers trolls and telling them to leave the forum completely because we couldn't possibly be right in our conclusions that the game was pants on head hilariously stupid.

Of course as soon as it hit midnight we were proved entirely right.

Plus don't you see the irony in posting that in this thread?

I remember the same, and do agree.

Northern_Watch
09-07-2015, 02:23
Hey, I hate to break it to you, just because you can't fathom or see a reason people are pissed, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't important to them and all the old man pics and attacks on people you do doesn't make your point more valid or theirs less so. Keep up the attacks however, would hate to feel anyone stopped you from being a real gentleman.

Okay, AngryAngel, I've gone back and re-read the thread and feel I need to defend myself. I haven't attacked anyone personally in any of my recent posts: what I have criticized is the prevailing attitude in these boards to toss out a system in the midst of its initial roll-out. I apologize (eat crow) to anyone old and/or with a neckbeard that has taken offense to my generalizations, but seriously: it's like Kegslayer and others have said in response to the OP...WHFB was a game, and life (certainly GW) has moved on. I understand why people are disappointed that a beloved product is now defunct, and perhaps many of the parameters of this brand new system are uncomfortable to long-time players...but just give it a chance, if only from a distance.

This will be my last post on the subject in this thread, because I'd hate to hijack it any further. However, I will be posting a new thread very shortly, and look forward to seeing everyone's reactions there.

Respectfully,

Northern Watch.

GrandmasterWang
09-07-2015, 03:03
What do the sculptors have to do with anything? They aren't decision makers, they don't design the games, they don't set the prices. They get handed concept art and are told to get to work. No matter how much trust you have in them, their contribution to the release schedule is nil.


...except for you know...... sculpting/making the products that are released. ..

I am definitely looking forward to see what crazy new 'sculpts' we see for the new armies.

In fact I'd argue that the sculptors have the single largest contribution to the release schedule. .. without them there is no release schedule..... unless you think GW is going to support AOS purely with paints and books.





Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

AngryAngel
09-07-2015, 17:46
Okay, AngryAngel, I've gone back and re-read the thread and feel I need to defend myself. I haven't attacked anyone personally in any of my recent posts: what I have criticized is the prevailing attitude in these boards to toss out a system in the midst of its initial roll-out. I apologize (eat crow) to anyone old and/or with a neckbeard that has taken offense to my generalizations, but seriously: it's like Kegslayer and others have said in response to the OP...WHFB was a game, and life (certainly GW) has moved on. I understand why people are disappointed that a beloved product is now defunct, and perhaps many of the parameters of this brand new system are uncomfortable to long-time players...but just give it a chance, if only from a distance.

This will be my last post on the subject in this thread, because I'd hate to hijack it any further. However, I will be posting a new thread very shortly, and look forward to seeing everyone's reactions there.

Respectfully,

Northern Watch.

If you found any issue with what you said and did, I'd hardly need to call you on it, but it is there. All the subtle attacks on people who don't like the system, all the funny pictures used apparently, multiple times, to say we don't get it, we have one foot in the grave !! Point is, the words are not needed. If and lets say if right now, it is too early to say the system sucks, then it is equally too early to say it'll be awesome, or is awesome right now.

I will further add in, who are you, or kegslayer to judge what should or should not be important to anyone else ? I am sure you have things you hold dear others might find pointless or silly. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is importance or worth, or we'd all be the exact same people. Is the games demise and debauchery of this new system equal to losing a family member, no, and I doubt anyone would claim that. Is it really annoying/angering to people who have invested alot of time, effort and money into it, you bet it is. That is irrespective of if you get it or not, or share the same values or not.

I will close in saying, is it possible some people have judged the product and found it wanting ?

Urgat
09-07-2015, 18:47
So I just wanted to do what I said I would and admit I was wrong.

For background, reading the rumours and counter rumours, I read the stuff that turned out true and couldn't believe it. It was absurd. It was unfathomable at the time to think GW would do what they have now done.

I rejected the lunacy and was hostile to those who I regarded were "making it up".

I was wrong.

The rumours were true. Warhammer Fantasy died as a supported product and was replaced with a remedial wargame.

I publicly apologise for reacting the way I did and thank you for giving us the heads up.

And I still am in shock at the business decisions on parade right now. Maybe we'll have an xbox moment and see a U turn...


Well hat down to you, but that was a risking bet :p As far as I'm concerned if Harry says it's so, it's so. So no surprise it turned out exactly how he said it would ;)
That being said, I'm not sure you needed to apologize, everybody's entitled to his opinion (as Darnok sternly reminded me a couple days ago :shifty:), and you only expressed yours, I suppose?