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View Full Version : I've been out of the loop for almost 3 years now, fill me in



jamesterjlrb
12-07-2015, 15:49
So just shy of 3 years ago now I went to University and stopped wargaming. The only link I mantained was my WD (what is it even called nowadays?) sub, partly in the hope that I might get back into the hobby, partly cause I'll never start it up again at the direct debit price I currently have, which is maybe 5 or so years old. At any rate though I pretty much cut myself off entirely from the game, and indeed from this forum, almost overnight. I posted once a year later in a Games Day (is it even called that anymore?) related thread and thats it. I've kept up with some things, and I'm aware of the latest AoS things in fantasy.

So anyway I'm considering relooking into the hobby. Firstly, should I bother? Secondly what have I missed? Its sort of coincidental that the AoS happenings which I'm aware of are about now, and they've made me decide now is not the time when getting my 5k points of fantasy models out of a draw is going to put me in a happy place. So 40k appears to be the better option.

So I'm interested in whats been going on with the hobby in terms of fluff, rules, meta, more "hobby" related stuff. And then I might see about dusting some marines or guard down for a spin.

To clarify the exact time I stopped, it was around September '12, just after a new edition of 40k, 7th IIRC?

EDIT: Should probably clarify the armies I have particular interest in are Imperial Guard (why do all the names keep changing!) and space marines (particularly iron hands). Also have some orks and nids knocking about.

Navar
12-07-2015, 15:56
I would start with Forge World and the Horus Heresy.

I don't know your background, but if you want a lot of amazing fluff to read with some great rules you cannot do better.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

mightymconeshot
12-07-2015, 17:26
So that was 6th edition. We are already onto 7th. So far for some armies it is a 2 year release cycle and others sit painfully on the back burner with outdated codexs. Basically it has divided the community some what but nothing in terms of AoS. The rules are becoming increasingly screwy. The early 7th edition codexs are not well received and the recent major codexs are just written at a completely different level of play.

Several new armies have been released and a few more are looking to be released according to rumors.

Basically fluff has been getting more toward 40k ending with more and more doomsday rumors cropping up in codexs. Armies have also stopped being themed to one codex and often become a more mishmash of two or three factions fighting together. Certain armies/choices are considered very powerful like Iron hands bike master while other suffer from WTF moments. Certain formations are just increasingly powerful and certain armies have very little to offer for competitive play.

So for me it is a massive mess and 40k has essentially died where I live. However for some areas it is thriving and people love 7th. So it depends on where you are. Hope that helps.

sunborn
13-07-2015, 00:33
So for me it is a massive mess and 40k has essentially died where I live. However for some areas it is thriving and people love 7th. So it depends on where you are. Hope that helps.

I quit 10 years ago because the game was a mess, bigger than it is today. I just got back into the game after 10 years, because there is a promise that codices will be updated regularly. Almost every 'dex either had an update or has one planned (with obvious exceptions). However, things have gotten all weirded up with a)Apocalypse rules come standard [D-weapons, LoW] B) there is a psychic phase [deny the witch] C) fielding parts of different armies is the norm [csm and necrons?] D) armies have been added with more coming [Ad Mech, Harlequins]

Azazyll
13-07-2015, 02:34
You can get a complete mini version of the rules from a variety of sources now, don't buy the horrendous three volume money sink.

The Horus Heresy volumes from FW are where it's at, that's where the real creativity is in both fluff and crunch for the most part.

Codex releases for the main game are for the most part incredibly bland, often no new units, even more copy and paste fluff than before. They had supplements for a while, but that trend seems to have ended, basically another $40 for minor rules tweaks and some extra formations, usually overpowered. Now we're getting mini dexes instead like Stormtroopers (ahem, Militarum Tempestus, because apparently you can trademark better in bad Latin), Harlequins, and two AdMech armies that together don't quite add up to a whole new army. Well received in terms of models though, and to a lesser extent rules.

The main rules shift is armies now have formations (like the old Apocalypse datasheets but for normal play) that give bonuses if you take all the units in them. More recent codices have uber formations, usually requiring a collection of formations but giving an even better advantage. Codices without these uber formations (called decuroins by most because the first one, in the new necrons book, was so named) are considered sub-par now compared to the new ones that do. A few ludicrously overpowered formations havebeen released as incentives if you buy a ridiculous number of new kits bundled together; these are considered horribly broken by most of the community. Formations canbe taken instead of using the old FoC, which is now just a generic formation usable by any army, giving the bonus of troops denying objectives to non troops (any unit can now claim an ovjective, but troops with this rule trump that).

That's the big shift as I see it. Oh, and any psyker can take powers to summon daemons, but the risk is higher than normal. And it's generally considered poor fluff.

Bonzai
13-07-2015, 04:39
There have been more massive changes introduced into the game than perhaps ever before in the history of the game. GW has given unprecedented options to list building, while at the same time increasing the random element.

In my opinion 6th edition caused a lot of problems, and 7th edition made positive steps towards cleaning up the messes. 6th was the edition of psychic power abuse, unkillable Death Stars, and Ally shenanigans. 7th has helped correct this some what. So here are the changes from 5th to present.

1. Detachments/Armies: List building has fundamentally changed. Now an army is composed of detachments. FOCs, Allies, Formations, etc.. Can all be combined to form your army. Not only that, but new unit types have been created, such as fortifications and Lords of War (Apoc units). This opens the flood gates as to what is possible. Min Maxers love it, Fluff Bunnies hate it. Over all, I am of the opinion is that options in general are great, it's what individual players end up doing with them that can be problematic. To paraphrase Assassin's Creed "When all is permitted, nothing is forbidden".

2. Mission design: no longer are missions just kill points and objectives on turn 5. Now with the Maelstrom missions they change each round. Killing specific units, holding specific objectives, manifesting psychic powers, etc... It helps add variety and unpredictability to a game.

3. Flyers: added in 6th, they have declined a bit in prevalence, but are still a factor and have to be prepared for.

4. The Psychic Phase: There have been major changes to psychic powers. They have their own turn phase now, are randomly generated now. They are also much harder to cast. Now psychic powers are something you need to invest in to be reliable.

5. The only constant is change: with the breakneck release schedule the game is in a constant state of change. It used to take about 6 months for a codex to be picked over and the tournament lists to become fine tuned. In the last 6 months we have seen Necrons, Harlequins, Assassins, Imperial Knights, Eldar, Khorne Daemonkin, Skitari, Adeptus Mechanus, Space Marines, and now Dark Angels. There is no telling what will be thrown at you.

Over all I have been enjoying 7th. 6th Edition opened Pandora's box, 7th edition fixed a lot of the problems it caused.

Karhedron
13-07-2015, 16:31
I agree that 7th edition is proving very enjoyable for me. Most armies now have access to 1 or 2 flyers and super heavy vehicles (or gargantuan creatures) in their codex. Imperial Forces can easily ally in a Knight (basically a mini-Titan) if they wish.

Codices now regularly include variant force organisation charts so it is no longer expected that you will need the old CAD (1HQ + 2 Troops) in your army. The 4 most recent codices have also included a new kind of super-detachments which are made up of other Detachments/Formations and allow you to stack bonuses. The purpose of these formations seems to be to reward players who build armies that are representative of those particular factions.

The 4 most recent codices (Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines and Dark Angels) seem to be significantly more powerful than older ones, largely due to these Detachment/Formation bonuses. If you are looking to start a completely new army, choosing one of these will give you a head-start in competitiveness and help make sure you do not fall behind the power-curve (if such considerations matter to you). You mentioned Iron Hands (special rules for them available in the Space Marine codex), they are probably more powerful and cheaper to build than Guard.

The 7th edition rulebook has been produced in mini-softback format for the Deathstorm and Stormclaw box sets and can be picked up on eBay far cheaper than the heavy hardbacked version available in stores.

GW could turn around and change everything tomorrow but personally I feel like this is a good time for 40K. The rate of new codex releases has upset some players (Eldar and Marines were only 2 years old when they were replaced). Given the cost of the books I can see why but I think it is better than it used to be where armies might wait 4 or 5 years to get an update (becoming less competitive and less playable the longer it went on).

Dkoz
13-07-2015, 16:51
I would agree with Karhedron 7th edition has been enjoyable for me and if you like tournaments it's no longer just copy and paste army builds like the end of 5th edition.

Formerly Wu
13-07-2015, 19:33
Since you're an Imperial Guard player, you might be interested in a few things:



Militarum Tempestus is a mini-faction for playing a pure Stormtrooper army. It predates the current style by a bit, but is a fun alternative if you like the special forces style of play. Just avoid the fluff, which makes the Imperium's finest sound like a bunch of depressing weirdos.
Adeptus Mechanicus is an easy plug-and-play army that you could often expect to see fighting alongside the Guard. The kits are fantastic sources of cool conversions for high-tech troops.
The new edition of Forge World's Siege of Vraks collects all three volumes in one and contains updated lists for the Death Korps of Krieg.
If you're not above being a h e r e t i c Forge World's Imperial Armour 13 has an excellent Renegades and Heretics list that finally gives the armies of Chaos a flexible, powerful, and characterful list that doesn't just feel like a carbon copy of the Guard. The Siege of Vraks also has a version of the list modified for the Vraks militia, along with some alternate FOCs that allow you to incorporate Chaos marine elements.
In the 30k realm, the Solar Auxilia is Forge World's Imperial Army model line. The feature new and archaic transports, Basilisks mounted on Leman Russ chassis, the Stormlord super-heavy tank, and lots and lots of multilasers.
The new Horus Heresy book Tempest also contains a list for planetary militias or cults, which is incredibly flexible, allowing you to play human armies from almost any planet or background imaginable: dark age technology, mutants, cyber-freaks, unending hordes, warp cults, you name it.


I wouldn't expect a new Guard codex until at least early next year, so you have some time to settle back in.

Creodasforge
14-07-2015, 09:39
I do think that now with the huge titans and new tau models as good as the game is i feel that the game is now getting to a point where its pay to win but that might just be me

Karhedron
14-07-2015, 10:55
Pay to win is not necessarily true. A 1500-ish point Imperial Knight army would set you back around 500 (5 Knight kits plus a codex). That would give you 5 models with a lot of shooting power that can stomp quite efficiently in CC as well.

Downside is that with only 5 units you will struggle to capture objectives. You will be weak against flyers and horde armies will be able to tarpit your knights in assault.

You can easily build a 1500 point Marine army for a lot less money and whilst it will not have so many big guns, it will probably actually win more games.

There are always going to be some expensive units that look devastating but I don't think it is a solid rule that = Victory.

Lord Damocles
14-07-2015, 11:40
I do think that now with the huge titans and new tau models as good as the game is i feel that the game is now getting to a point where its pay to win but that might just be me
It's not like the best lists int he past were free.
Eldar players still had to buy all those Starcannon platforms and Falcons. Tyranid players still had to buy half a dozen Carnifexes. Space Wolf players still needed to buy all those Razorbacks and missile launchers...

Nor is buying the most expensive stuff any guarante that you'll do well. An army of bubble chuckers will empty out your bank account, but it will also suck.

WarsmithGarathor94
14-07-2015, 11:51
i personally.find 7th great fun to play i like the fact psykers got stronger and that they now have their own phase

Losing Command
14-07-2015, 12:18
The short of it is that 40k has technically become Apocalypse, codexes got less fluff specially unit discriptions (though the latest ones see some of it return) and game-balance can be all over the place. However the game can still feel much like it used to when you agree on some limitations for armylists (no superheavy/gargantuan, no formations (that includes decurions) single Force Organisation Chart, no allies for example) and personally I still enjoy it quite much.

But if you would like something that requires less agreements beforehand, space marines, lots of fluff and special scenario's in your rulebooks and already have the amount of models required or some cash to burn then 30k is a good option.

Creodasforge
14-07-2015, 13:55
It's not like the best lists int he past were free.
Eldar players still had to buy all those Starcannon platforms and Falcons. Tyranid players still had to buy half a dozen Carnifexes. Space Wolf players still needed to buy all those Razorbacks and missile launchers...

Nor is buying the most expensive stuff any guarante that you'll do well. An army of bubble chuckers will empty out your bank account, but it will also suck.

I do see you point it's more probably me getting my orcs battered and not liking it lol