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Philhelm
12-07-2015, 17:28
In 8th edition, the opponent would make an armor save, then the wounds would be multiplied (D3, D6, etc.). How is it resolved in Age of Sigmar?

SimaoSegunda
12-07-2015, 18:21
It's resolved in the same way... Hit, wound, save, work out damage. Note that in AoS, multiple wounds will carry over onto other models in the same unit. So, if a cannon hits a unit of orcs, say, and gets past their armour save, then it will kill d6 of them.

The bearded one
12-07-2015, 19:00
Wait, it is? I thought you just applied the amount of damage the attack caused to 1 enemy model until you've burned through its number of wounds (losing the excess wounds).

If the wounds carry over, my bretonnian lord on pegasus with fancy D3 wound lance is gonna have a good ol' fieldday :)

T10
12-07-2015, 19:14
You add up the number of Wounds caused before allocating them. This will allow wounds to "carry over". There is no Wound cap.

SimaoSegunda
12-07-2015, 19:55
Wait, it is? I thought you just applied the amount of damage the attack caused to 1 enemy model until you've burned through its number of wounds (losing the excess wounds).

If the wounds carry over, my bretonnian lord on pegasus with fancy D3 wound lance is gonna have a good ol' fieldday :)

It is. It even explicitly states in the rules for "determine damage", and I quote: '...some can inflict 2 or more wounds, allowing them to cause grievous injuries to even the mightiest foe, or to cleave through more than one opponent with but a single blow'.

Looks like the Bret lord is gonna be making himself a shish kebab.

The bearded one
12-07-2015, 20:53
Ah yes, rereading the rules I can see it clearly now.

Time to kill models by the score.

Dwane Diblie
13-07-2015, 09:58
I am going to adjust SimaoSegunda sequence slightly.

Roll To Hit
Roll To Wound
Roll Saves
Work out damage caused
Allocate Wounds to models
Roll Wound ignoring rolls. (Ward Saves for the old school)

Nakitou
15-07-2015, 07:11
but dont you agree that with that specific rule models like elves. humans. orc. etc are on a disadvantage, because now the ogre have 3 damage and 3 attacks and 4 wounds since there is no point value on models 1 elf even those that used to be special units will stand a chance against an ogre with those kind of stats?

Avian
15-07-2015, 10:29
Each Ogre effectively has 9 attacks, and will keep them all until dead.

Tidings
16-07-2015, 17:54
It's a bit confusing. I read it as being a cleave, since that's what they say. You deal wounds, then the owner of the target unit removes models. Pretty simple. But then there's the Waywatcher ability, fast shots or precise shots. Fast shots lets you take 4 attacks instead of 3, and for each roll of 6 to hit, you get an additional attack. Precise shots is 3 attacks but they deal 2 wounds each, and a roll of 6 to wound makes that hit a -3 rend.

Why would you ever do fast shots over precise shots? Precise shots is just more likely to wound, and does more damage, especially if it carries over.

-Tidings

Avian
16-07-2015, 18:10
It's fairly obvious that most of the legacy scrolls have not been written by an experienced game developer, and not been tested.

Tidings
16-07-2015, 20:47
It's fairly obvious that most of the legacy scrolls have not been written by an experienced game developer, and not been tested.

Pretty much. I'll still have fun with it, especially after establishing some good house rules. But stuff like the fast vs precise shots makes me go wut... o_0

-Tidings

Philhelm
16-07-2015, 21:24
I am going to adjust SimaoSegunda sequence slightly.

Roll To Hit
Roll To Wound
Roll Saves
Work out damage caused
Allocate Wounds to models
Roll Wound ignoring rolls. (Ward Saves for the old school)

So wounds are multiplied after armor saves are made? But does it actually state that in the rulebook?

SimaoSegunda
16-07-2015, 21:47
So wounds are multiplied after armor saves are made? But does it actually state that in the rulebook?

Yes, it does state that in the rulebook.

Dwane Diblie
17-07-2015, 01:54
It's a bit confusing. I read it as being a cleave, since that's what they say. You deal wounds, then the owner of the target unit removes models. Pretty simple. But then there's the Waywatcher ability, fast shots or precise shots. Fast shots lets you take 4 attacks instead of 3, and for each roll of 6 to hit, you get an additional attack. Precise shots is 3 attacks but they deal 2 wounds each, and a roll of 6 to wound makes that hit a -3 rend.

Why would you ever do fast shots over precise shots? Precise shots is just more likely to wound, and does more damage, especially if it carries over.

-Tidings

Because attacks can be divided amongst any number of target units where wounds can not.

Kisanis
17-07-2015, 02:52
Yes, it does state that in the rulebook.
Rulepage*

Book is generous.

I like how crazy some legacy midels got, I just wish it was with a balancing contest instead of
"Can I read the warscroll for that? Oh man, you put down 10 of them? Ok how am I going to deal with that, lets hope this maybe does something?"

I just found keeping the game small was hard, esp with skaven.

On the wound topic, that does change a lot of dynamics, and can make some major changes to dealing with big characters.

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Tidings
17-07-2015, 08:17
Rulepage* Book is generous.

Was gonna say the same thing lol.

-Tidings

thesoundofmusica
17-07-2015, 12:00
Was gonna say the same thing lol.

-Tidings

Maybe you're trying to be funny because of the whole 4 page rulebook thing in which case I would have to say haha, that was actually funny. BUT if you're serious, the sequence is on page 4.
1 roll to hit
2 roll to wound
3 save
4 determine damage using the weapons damage characteristic

Harwammer
17-07-2015, 12:30
The most amusing thing about the rule book is the number of people who mock it for it's small size yet are still unable to read it properly before posting needless questions or half understood rulings. :S

Perhaps four pages was too many.

Kisanis
17-07-2015, 16:15
Well we are on whineseer...

The rules are short and leave room for confusion, so while the core is simpler, the details can get messy

Were also in a paradigm shift of our thinking. It will take time.

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Ayin
17-07-2015, 22:01
The most amusing thing about the rule book is the number of people who mock it for it's small size yet are still unable to read it properly before posting needless questions or half understood rulings. :S

Perhaps four pages was too many.

Funny.

'The rules are only four pages long and there's confusion? Must be too much to read!'

Or, you know, lots and lots of room for confusion.

thesoundofmusica
17-07-2015, 22:26
Funny.

'The rules are only four pages long and there's confusion? Must be too much to read!'

Or, you know, lots and lots of room for confusion.

Lots and lots really? I havent noticed.

SimaoSegunda
17-07-2015, 22:35
Lots and lots really? I havent noticed.

Indeed. It seems the majority of problems are coming from people not fully reading the rules, assuming it's the same as 8th, then when it gets explained to them, they ask if that's in the rules....

forseer of fates
18-07-2015, 00:14
Bit ridiculous that it affects single wounded models now:(

Philhelm
18-07-2015, 18:05
Indeed. It seems the majority of problems are coming from people not fully reading the rules, assuming it's the same as 8th, then when it gets explained to them, they ask if that's in the rules....

I read the rules, and my interpretation of the attack sequence matches yours and that of the others. Roll to hit, roll to wound, roll for armor saves, then multiply and allocate damage. The reason I asked for citation is that I had a disagreement with my primary opponent last week. He had a different interpretation due to the use of the words "wound" and "damage" in the different sections. I was hoping to use this thread in order to settle the debate for when we play our next game.


2. Wound Roll: Roll a dice. If the roll equals or beats the attacking weapon’s To Wound characteristic, then it causes damage and the opposing player must make a save roll. If not, the attack fails and the attack sequence ends.

This is what caused the disagreement, since the rule first states that damage is caused and then the opposing player must make a save roll. My interpretation was that "damage" wasn't being used as a "term of art" as it was in the 4th section, "Determine Damage."


4. Determine Damage: Once all of the attacks made by a unit have been carried out, each successful attack in‘flicts a number of wounds equal to the Damage characteristic of the weapon. Most weapons have a Damage characteristic of 1, but some can inflict 2 or more wounds, allowing them to cause grievous injuries to even the mightiest foe, or to cleave through more than one opponent with but a single blow!

It seemed clear to me that multiple wounds are calculated after armor saves are rolled, but admittedly the rules are loose with the term "damage."

thesoundofmusica
18-07-2015, 19:56
words

Yeah but still, to cling on to that one mention of 'damage' in the towound section looks really desperate and then the sequence makes no sence. Sounds more like a case of "I'm deliberately awkward" or "I was wrong but just cant drop it" on your opponents side. But yeah lets just chalk it up to sloppy writing.

mattgard77
19-07-2015, 04:19
Hi. I hope I can ask a question about weapon damage. How and when do you allocate damage within the combat phase. Confused😈

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Tidings
19-07-2015, 11:43
Hi. I hope I can ask a question about weapon damage. How and when do you allocate damage within the combat phase. Confused

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Damage is done after the failed wound rolls. Owner of the unit chooses which models take the wounds. For example, Trolls hit Elves with a 2 damage attack and cause the Elves to take 7 save rolls. The Elves fail 5 of the rolls, so the unit takes 10 damage (10 wounds). The owner of the Elves chooses which 10 Elves died.

It's just written in a poorly thought out way.

-Tidings

mattgard77
19-07-2015, 20:11
Thanks I've got it now 😊

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Danny76
26-07-2015, 09:55
Interestingly everyone who I've gotten or seen playing it who has never played fantasy before, have not had any confusion with the rules and wording at all. Which is about 6 or 7 people now.
I think a lot of it is from '8th thinking'

thesoundofmusica
26-07-2015, 10:32
Interestingly everyone who I've gotten or seen playing it who has never played fantasy before, have not had any confusion with the rules and wording at all. Which is about 6 or 7 people now.
I think a lot of it is from '8th thinking'

Oh sure I can see that being the case.