PDA

View Full Version : Not playing an arranged game.



Orzel_Dragon
14-07-2015, 01:51
Well, for the first time in over 20 years of gaming I declined an arranged game when I got to our local gaming club. My opponent had asked for a game, and with no other players accepting, I agreed. I arrived with my usual mid level combined arms force to find I would be playing one of the new marine lists containing 10x5 man squads which all get free transports (6 drop pods, 2 Rhinos, 3 Razorbacks), a Librarian Conclave and the formation of StormRaven and 2 Stormtalons.

I only get one night a week for gaming, but I would rather spend my time playing something I enjoy. In the end I told my opponent I would not play that list as quite simply it wouldn't be a game, and settled in to play a couple of rounds of Resident Evil with two of the other guys in the club and asked my opponent to join us, which he did.

Would you have played the game knowing just how one sided it would be, or would you have gone through the motions and written off the evening?

3eland
14-07-2015, 02:10
I would have still played him.

The formations are good but they aren't game breaking good.

If, as you were playing, it seemed an unfair match up I would just comment at the end your thoughts. If he is a decent guy he will play something else next time.

Xantalora
14-07-2015, 02:17
Well I would have first ask the other player if he thinks that the list at hand would be a fair match up against your normal tier army in his opinion.
If he thinks it is I would kindly ask him to play the game twice. So that he can experience the balance from both sides. (it sounds kind of strange, but I had some very funny games playing the Chaos Space Marine Army of my best buddy, trying to beat my Imperiale Guard played by said buddy)

I think with regards to all the post-necron options, like special detachments granting armywide buffs etc. it has become necessary that every reasonable gamer thinks twice about the composition of his army, in order to provide a good, challenging and fair game for everybody involved.

Smooth Boy
14-07-2015, 03:20
I would have played him just to see how I did. Sometimes they're not as unbeatable as they appear, but afterwards I would have asked him to have a serious think about what 40K is about and not to bring it again. If winning is the most important aspect to him then I would suggest chess.

Scribe of Khorne
14-07-2015, 04:08
I've been there. Sometimes you bring a list, and just looking over what you are going up against you know its going to be a waste of time. I've always played through, but its ****** when it happens.

BTW to those saying the formations arent all that, spot your opponent 385+ points and tell me thats not a difference. The free transports thing is huge.

T10
14-07-2015, 08:11
I only get one night a week for gaming, but I would rather spend my time playing something I enjoy. In the end I told my opponent I would not play that list as quite simply it wouldn't be a game,

For your opponent's part this was a swing and a miss. I don't doubt that he was merely keen to use the new toys in his box, and against a different opponent he might have had game.

If he had told you his plans for his army in advance, giving you the opportunity to modify your own army, would you have accepted and played?

-T10

Orzel_Dragon
14-07-2015, 08:20
I have played the guy before a.nd to be fair to him he is a great guy. Last time we played he asked if he could use a Forgeworld model in his list. If he had told me what I as up against (battle company, not his full list) I could have tried something more competitive. He did actually agree with me about the power level of the two lists, which is why we invited him to join our other game (always have a plan B).

Just to be clear my issues weren't necessarily with the bonuses that you got for units on the table but with the fact that my opponent was basically getting a 2450pt army in a 2k game......I really don't see how that is supposed to be balanced

Losing Command
14-07-2015, 09:45
What weapons were the 5-man squads equipped with ? The reason that the battle company formation doesn't seem that strong to me is that you have to minimize on spending points on anything in order to get a free transport vehicle ... with a stormbolter, or a heavy bolter. Last time I checked those weapons didn't exactly mow down models by the handfull ;) But basically you often end up with an army that mostly has bolters and tactical marines in it. The only 'scary' thing in his armylist is the librarian formation, and maybe the flyer one if your army wasn't equipped to handle a flyer or effectively remove what is on the board (and I imagine most armies can deal with marines and AV 11 vehicles)

I would have played, if only to find out if the interwebz rage was well founded.

Spiney Norman
14-07-2015, 09:48
Clearly people have a different understanding of what an 'arranged game' is to me, this sounds like little more than a pick up game that you decided you would play in advance. 40k is now so badly balanced that arranging a game now intrinsically requires some kind of fairly in-depth discussion of the lists you will be using, if your opponent is bringing Eldar, decurion or SM battle company you'd better bring a very high end, maximised list unless you can bring one of those 'top three' yourself.

WarsmithGarathor94
14-07-2015, 11:15
Personally id have played him. I primarily play csm kdk and daemons and tbh the battle company is hardly broken

Lord Damocles
14-07-2015, 11:32
I'd love people to put down multiple minimal sized squads and light[ly armed] vehicles against me. My Necrons will just roll over those like they're not even there.

Beppo1234
14-07-2015, 13:56
they really should adjust the company formation rules to require full 10-man squads.

Sir Didymus
14-07-2015, 14:50
40K is not a game. Its a pastime, where you get to showcase your models and marvel at your opponents.

So if the guy was a good sport and a great guy, and he had decent looking models, I'd play him. I mean, whats the worst that could happen? You getting beaten in a game of toy soldiers?

But then again, if winning is all you care for, and you see no fun in the Challenge of the game itself, then I completely understand, and would probably have been better off in this way - no fun in playing a whiny opponent, rolling around on the floor complaining about GW game design.

40K changes constantly. You start out one day with an army thats handicapped beyond the lowest tier, only to find that the next day, they're regarded as broken beyond measure, because a new book came out, and then slowly sink back into the shadows, as the next armies come out. So either you pay to win, or you accept the state of things, stop playing the GW marketing game, and just make a cool army and start conquering the stars in spite of the odds.

WarsmithGarathor94
14-07-2015, 16:22
they really should adjust the company formation rules to require full 10-man squads.

i dont think.they should to be honest. Lets be real who would use it if they had to take 60 tactical marines as well.as everything else. I mainly build fluff friendly lists but i wouldnt use it. I refuse to use the blood host due to requiring possessed

Grand Master Raziel
14-07-2015, 18:14
Orzel_Dragon, my question would be: what we're you playing? If you're playing Necrons or Eldar or one of the newer armies with all the formation goodness, then that would have been a reasonably fair matchup.

I think the free transports in the battle company list is recognition on GW'S part that a SM Tac-Assault-Dev Squad list is overpriced for what you get, and their way of doing something about it while not upsetting the pricing apple cart and simultaneously giving players a reason to buy a lot of models.

Personally, I'd have preferred the free transport perk to come from a single Demi-company, where you get it if you buy the size of the squad in question up to 10. That'd have been fluffier, but wouldn't have been as good a driver of sales.

Orzel_Dragon
14-07-2015, 18:25
The army I had was Eldar, but an Alaitoc list, so Rangers, low AV vehicles, some Aspects (Scorpions, Reapers, Hawks). The list is standard force org chart with no Psykers or Wraiths, one unit of 5 jetbikes with no upgrades etc. I had accepted the game at the last minute as no one else had replied to the challenge on our club forum.

insectum7
14-07-2015, 19:45
BTW to those saying the formations arent all that, spot your opponent 385+ points and tell me thats not a difference. The free transports thing is huge.

As a guy who has played his last four games using the full company, I'll definitely say that its a big bonus. I'll also say that once you commit to it, options get real tight real fast. The army that the OP has described doesn't look like those minimum squads can be armed particularly well, and taking a 400+ point Auxilliary plus the Librarian Conclave really eats into the options for squads. I'm not convinced there's a whole lot of bite to that list, honestly.

Also, it appears to have 11 transports in it? 6 Drop Pods, 2 Rhinos and 3 Razorbacks for 10 squads is what's described.

. . .

As a thought exercise, how different is free transports in comparison to summoning several hundred points worth of Daemons to the table?



I'd love people to put down multiple minimal sized squads and light[ly armed] vehicles against me. My Necrons will just roll over those like they're not even there.

Bring it!! :)

WarsmithGarathor94
14-07-2015, 20:21
Heck.bring those min sized squads vs my kdk lol

insectum7
14-07-2015, 20:49
Heck.bring those min sized squads vs my kdk lol

Hehe. I think I have a game vs. Daemonkin coming up in a couple days. Grav-Cannons suck against Daemons and Chaos hounds too.

The min squads and cheap vehicles definitely has it's downsides. Every time the other guy draws a card like "destroy a unit in X phase, destroy 3+ and get D3 points" I cringe a bit. But every time I get "control objective X" or similar, that little cha-ching sound effect goes off in my head.

MajorWesJanson
14-07-2015, 21:49
As a thought exercise, how different is free transports in comparison to summoning several hundred points worth of Daemons to the table?


Vehicles are on at the start of the game, as part of the listbuilding phase. Summoning relies somewhat on successful psychic power generation and rolls, and can be stopped during the game by targeting the summoners or (very) lucky deny rolls.

I don't mind the idea of free transports for a company, but personally find a list entirely made up of Razorbacks as those free transports to be rather cheesy. Just personal taste; a mix of vehicles is rather flexably, all rhinos fits the classic battle company, all drop pods is very strong but a themed list, but a player going for all razorbacks seems to be in it for the cheap guns (usually paying the 20 points to upgrade to TLAC or Las/Plas) rather than to use them as actual transports.

Baaltor
15-07-2015, 00:38
I don't mind the idea of free transports for a company, but personally find a list entirely made up of Razorbacks as those free transports to be rather cheesy. Just personal taste; a mix of vehicles is rather flexably, all rhinos fits the classic battle company, all drop pods is very strong but a themed list, but a player going for all razorbacks seems to be in it for the cheap guns (usually paying the 20 points to upgrade to TLAC or Las/Plas) rather than to use them as actual transports.

I agree. It might not be so bad if they had a cost for upgrading to a razorback, or it was half price for all transports instead of this. I think razor backs are slightly overpriced usually though.

MajorWesJanson
15-07-2015, 01:32
I agree. It might not be so bad if they had a cost for upgrading to a razorback, or it was half price for all transports instead of this. I think razor backs are slightly overpriced usually though.

Dropping Razorbacks 10 points and raising the upgrades to 30 again would help deal with those issues somewhat.

Greavous
16-07-2015, 08:58
i would have played him, im a true 'codex is right' person, if its in there and legal i cant argue against it. if he has 2350 pts of models for only 2,000 points then that a bonus for him, surely you have some bonuses you can take (if its a newer codex i guess).
but i suppose it depends what army you brought, i faced off against a all transport SM army with my tau, destroyed every transport first turn with shooting (rhinos are weak).

i find most formations are for playing that specific formation as many cost 1k+ points some times before upgrades so your dedicating yourself to THAT build in the hope the usually minor bonuses tip the game for you. but thats how my club plays, we just say "im bringing X army next week" and nothing more said, so you have to build a list thinking "will he sue tanks? will he go all assault?" but it jsut makes it more fun and realistic to show up and suddenly your army is completly countered.

duffybear1988
16-07-2015, 12:42
I've been there. Sometimes you bring a list, and just looking over what you are going up against you know its going to be a waste of time. I've always played through, but its ****** when it happens.

BTW to those saying the formations arent all that, spot your opponent 385+ points and tell me thats not a difference. The free transports thing is huge.

I'll echo Scribe's post as it's pretty much what I have encountered as well.


i dont think.they should to be honest. Lets be real who would use it if they had to take 60 tactical marines as well.as everything else. I mainly build fluff friendly lists but i wouldnt use it. I refuse to use the blood host due to requiring possessed

But those khorne possessed aren't half bad in the daemonkin list.

A.T.
16-07-2015, 12:57
surely you have some bonuses you can takeSometimes your book/rules/formation/etc are just better than your opponents. Up to each player to decide how much of a handicap, real or perceived, they are happy to play with.

WarsmithGarathor94
16-07-2015, 14:12
Compare those khorne possessed to the gal vorbak and the kdk possessed look like weak imitations in comparrison