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Denny
18-07-2015, 07:29
Via BoLS (and something called 'Facebook' apparently)

Seems a pretty fair summary to me:

https://www.facebook.com/DesignbyTuomasPirinen/posts/1620250038223421

Pacman
18-07-2015, 08:41
Read all the comments too, lots more good commentary from Tuomas there:


In all my years in designing Warhammer I tried my best to bring the community of players together, not blow them apart.

Ultraloth
18-07-2015, 09:04
Great read!! It has replies from Andy Chambers and Andy Hall as well, so an excellent way to get to know how ex-GW design team members think about it.

Tokamak
18-07-2015, 09:11
I am of course sad to see Warhammer world go, as it was a labor of love for so many people for so many years, including me. It is one of the most iconic and enduring fantasy worlds ever created. But I do see some of the logic: the Warhammer world was complete, and a low-fantasy world. I

I agree with this. Sure there were some few blank spaces like Cathay and Nippon but beyond that there was very little to add or elaborate in the universe. Any attempts at adding new stuff (insect or snake races like in WoW) would upheave too much.

So I'm thankful they respected the lore in such a way that they wrote an end for it. I've said it in a previous post already but I'll say it again, the End Times are awesome. Some races are unrepresented but all in all it's a finale that Warhammer deserves.

We now have world with a beginning an interesting life-time, and an end. That's much better than milking it into some ugly mutated mess or letting it go out in a whimper as happened with so many other universes.

I just dearly wish they kept supporting that world rather than replacing it entirely.

DonkeyMan
18-07-2015, 09:22
It's an interesting read and I do agree with Tuomas.
Thanks for the link.

duffybear1988
18-07-2015, 09:59
Interesting read, although he doesn't talk much at all about the obvious failings of the rules.

Marketing for Apple type customers has to be the funniest thing about this release. At least with an iPad you do get a functioning tablet that you can use for all sorts. I imagine if Apple decided to release a new iPad with only half the programming done there would be similar uproar from their fans.

AoS is now more like a board game than a table top wargame.

zoggin-eck
18-07-2015, 10:01
Nuts, I thought it would be something new. Good old BoLS, posting something from nine days ago with an awful introduction. :)

Denny
18-07-2015, 10:04
Nuts, I thought it would be something new. Good old BoLS, posting something from nine days ago with an awful introduction. :)

Sorry about that. It was new to me, but then again I don't have Facebook.

Ayin
18-07-2015, 10:27
Interesting to see there several former GW employees saying the same hing that gets said elsewhere by anyone who has worked for them in the last decade and especially recently and who is willing to talk about it, that GW is aiming it's game more and more to an incredibly specific group: 12-14 year old boys from wealthy families who will play for 2 years and spend $1000 a year.

I can understand GW not feeling they need to do market research in that case (of course, that's one of the absolute best pieces of evidence that a company has no idea what it's doing in marketing, if they say 'our target market is...'), but it is somewhat surprisingly dissapointing to me that this is the case. In a world where other medias and entertainment are finally realizing a large percentage of their customer base are made up of so-called 'non-traditional demographics' and expanding their product appeal, GW is going after their golden goose with laser focus.

Urgat
18-07-2015, 10:33
Interesting read, although he doesn't talk much at all about the obvious failings of the rules.
That's because, as he said himself, it's not a review.


Marketing for Apple type customers has to be the funniest thing about this release. At least with an iPad you do get a functioning tablet that you can use for all sorts.

Ok for the iPad, but that ****** watch, it's completely useless (my bro got a bracelet to plug to his phone for a hundredth of its price which does the same? If you want the watch to last a day, you have to plug it to your iphone, what's the difference?), defective (haha the tatoos, god the batteries...) and you can't even read the time outdoors if there's a bit of sun (weird people aren't bothered by that part).
And yet it sold millions.

Denny
18-07-2015, 10:53
You can't even read the time outdoors if there's a bit of sun (weird people aren't bothered by that part).
And yet it sold millions.

People can just tell the time on their iPhones. It's not like they are used to make phone calls or anything. ;)

Personally, I will stick with my clockwork pocket-watch. Come the Zombie Apocalypse that watch will come in handy to whomever loots it from my long since devoured corpse.

zoggin-eck
18-07-2015, 11:05
Sorry about that. It was new to me, but then again I don't have Facebook.

Don't be sorry for that (or for not having Facebook!). I'm just laughing at how pathetic BoLS is. I believe there was one thread here already, but I can't see it. Besides, the forum is clogged with identical AoS threads, a second mention of this is surely OK :)



Personally, I will stick with my clockwork pocket-watch. Come the Zombie Apocalypse that watch will come in handy to whomever loots it from my long since devoured corpse.

Gee it's refreshing to see someone who isn't convinced they'll rule the world once zombies show up!

Captain Idaho
18-07-2015, 12:05
I agree with Tumous about the target audience and apple approach.

Which is the problem. Having a head start over your competitors as the 1st and elite product is the Apple Approach. Age of Sigmar is a ground up creation that is now behind it's competition from the start.

And type casting yourself into a single player base? Absurdly dangerous and small minded. Wargamers are a particular breed and a few rich white kids won't bring in lots of cash.

40K doesn't need to aim at that market, so perhaps Warhammer is purely a feeder game. Again, risky for a main line. A feeder game shouldn't take the focus of your business and resources as it should be easy to access and support cheap and cheerfully.

Look at the ground Apple has lost too...

Ultraloth
18-07-2015, 12:41
AoS is now more like a board game than a table top wargame.

Considering that boardgamers are a lot less forgiving of vagueness in rules than wargamers, I fail to see how this analogy is aplicable.

Sephillion
18-07-2015, 16:45
Interesting read, although he doesn't talk much at all about the obvious failings of the rules.

Marketing for Apple type customers has to be the funniest thing about this release. At least with an iPad you do get a functioning tablet that you can use for all sorts. I imagine if Apple decided to release a new iPad with only half the programming done there would be similar uproar from their fans.

AoS is now more like a board game than a table top wargame.

Yeah, he explains in a subsequent comment that he focused on the product rather than the game; but to me this is the most obvious aspect, and probably the most dividing.

If there was a points or army building system, at least, the other weird or badly written rules could be more easily overlooked.

That aside it's mostly a fair review. Although I'm less enthused than he is about the models.

mweaver
18-07-2015, 19:44
Thanks, Denny.

The bearded one
18-07-2015, 20:24
I agree with this. Sure there were some few blank spaces like Cathay and Nippon but beyond that there was very little to add or elaborate in the universe. Any attempts at adding new stuff (insect or snake races like in WoW) would upheave too much.

So I'm thankful they respected the lore in such a way that they wrote an end for it. I've said it in a previous post already but I'll say it again, the End Times are awesome. Some races are unrepresented but all in all it's a finale that Warhammer deserves.

We now have world with a beginning an interesting life-time, and an end. That's much better than milking it into some ugly mutated mess or letting it go out in a whimper as happened with so many other universes.

I just dearly wish they kept supporting that world rather than replacing it entirely.

That's a surprisingly healthy way to view it. While I'm sad the warhammer world is gone (and no longer really supported, and probably hard to get to know for future generations), it was a well-rounded lore, and I did love the End Times' story - there are lots of moments in there that will end up becoming truly iconic parts of the lore: Nagash's resurrection and the humbling of Settra, the meeting of the incarnates, Mannfred screwing everyone, stuff like that. All in all there are worse ways to do a finale. I love the image of Tyrion and Alarielle standing before the rift with their backs to the viewer - hands clasped - resigned in the fact that it's over.

Scribe of Khorne
18-07-2015, 20:28
Yeah, the End Times where an amazing wrap up. I was moved in several spots and am a Fantasy player/follower only in a very peripheral sense. AoS would have been better off completely cutting ties with WHFB. They could have frozen the game at 8th, moved boxes into online only and continued to sell kits based on it.

Then AoS becomes the new fantasy face, and should have been 100% new.

jet_palero
19-07-2015, 03:14
Man, I remember reading his tactics articles on his website way back when. He had such interesting stuff.


Yeah, the End Times where an amazing wrap up. I was moved in several spots and am a Fantasy player/follower only in a very peripheral sense. AoS would have been better off completely cutting ties with WHFB. They could have frozen the game at 8th, moved boxes into online only and continued to sell kits based on it.

Then AoS becomes the new fantasy face, and should have been 100% new.

Personally, i think a better ending to the end times would have been sigmar arriving in his sigchariot with his sigmarines, and saving the day. then the old world wouldn't have gotten squated, but GW could have added their "cewl" new MEQ faction to WFB. Of course I hate everything about AoS, so my opinion really doesn't matter at this point.

Urgat
21-07-2015, 09:50
People can just tell the time on their iPhones. It's not like they are used to make phone calls or anything. ;)

Which makes the watch even more pointless no? Still it sells, so I think the point is fair, some people will buy whatever crap their favourite brand releases.


Personally, i think a better ending to the end times would have been sigmar arriving in his sigchariot with his sigmarines, and saving the day. then the old world wouldn't have gotten squated,

Litteral Deus ex machina :/ Sorry, I just hate that kind of stuff. Archaon is the lord of end times, if he doesn't win in the end, he's turned into a joke (see SoC), and the chaos gods follow suit as a bunch of losers.
I'd have prefered exactly what they did, excepted the world is left in ruins instead of destroyed, the chaos gods lose interest (they've won, heh), new gods (Sigmar and co) etc rise to guide the few survivors, reconquer what's left of the world from their hiding places (such as that reality Lileath created for that wood elf dude), the chaos gods come back, then aos stuff (good guys going on the offensive, etc).

WHo knows, maybe the Old World will be reconstructed some way or another and be added as the tenth world?

Carnelian
21-07-2015, 10:27
Interesting to see there several former GW employees saying the same hing that gets said elsewhere by anyone who has worked for them in the last decade and especially recently and who is willing to talk about it, that GW is aiming it's game more and more to an incredibly specific group: 12-14 year old boys from wealthy families who will play for 2 years and spend $1000 a year.

and now I will quote the actual article:


All in all this targets a very particular kind of consumer: Ideally affluent, social, and focused on collectability of very high-quality designs -very much the Apple tactic.

There is almost nothing that Pirinen says here that supports your contention. In fact being "social" positively rules out being a 12-14 year old boy! Out of following 5 factors you listed (age, sex, family wealth, time spent playing the game of two years and ability to spend $1000 a year) the only one that comes remotely close is the final factor - the ability so spend a lot!

EDIT: I've just read some of the comments at the bottom of the article from people who worked in GW stores - which is what I now assume you to be referring to - and which is a somewhat different category of employees than the games designers imho.

duffybear1988
21-07-2015, 12:35
Considering that boardgamers are a lot less forgiving of vagueness in rules than wargamers, I fail to see how this analogy is aplicable.

I meant the starter box itself was more like a board game. Once you start randomly sprinkling in all kinds of units and heroes it turns into a mess.

Bloodknight
21-07-2015, 12:59
Archaon is the lord of end times, if he doesn't win in the end, he's turned into a joke (see SoC)

*shrug* He's basically the equvalent to Abaddon in 40K and Abaddon loses all the time. Do people think he's a joke? I do, but most other CSM players probably don't.

plantagenet
21-07-2015, 13:17
I guess ultimately that's the problem when the only aim of you bad guy is to see everything burn. For them to win literally everything has to end.

More nuanced bad guys are needed with smaller but no less despicable aims so that they can meet with success and not cause it to mean everything is gone. Maybe even loose the idea of bad guys altogether but concentrate on the aims of the nations. So archaon should have just been looking for more territory And people to subjugate. He could achieve this then die allowing other faction to regain territory until a new leader takes up the reigns....

HereComesTomorrow
21-07-2015, 13:33
*shrug* He's basically the equvalent to Abaddon in 40K and Abaddon loses all the time. Do people think he's a joke? I do, but most other CSM players probably don't.

I think most CSM players think Abaddon is a joke.
I mean, how can you lead an army with no arms?

Urgat
21-07-2015, 14:42
*shrug* He's basically the equvalent to Abaddon in 40K and Abaddon loses all the time. Do people think he's a joke? I do, but most other CSM players probably don't.
No idea about Abaddon, I know nearly nothing about him, but Archaon post SC was a laughing stock.

AwesomePizza
21-07-2015, 14:49
It starts off with what it hopes the game will be. I see that a lot. That it will capture this new market share... Somehow. With hope and dreams probably.

And then just the talking points trashing old fantasy.

SuperHappyTime
22-07-2015, 02:26
*shrug* He's basically the equvalent to Abaddon in 40K and Abaddon loses all the time. Do people think he's a joke? I do, but most other CSM players probably don't.

Despite all the victories before the final battle, Archaon lost too. If it wasn't for Mannfred stabbing Gelt, the world would still be here.

Ayin
22-07-2015, 03:18
*shrug* He's basically the equvalent to Abaddon in 40K and Abaddon loses all the time. Do people think he's a joke? I do, but most other CSM players probably don't.

Both Abaddon and Archaon were supposed to lead their final Crusade/Storm against the galaxy in the late 6th/4th editions, both with online campaigns and both failed. In both cases GW more or less rolled the timeline backwards and acted as if those crusades were still yet to come, the only difference being that Archaon's has happened again, and Abaddon's hasn't.

As to Abaddon having lost many times, there have been several Chosen/Everchosen of Chaos already, where Abaddon plays the role of the head guy each time. Whereas all the previous Fantasy Chaos leaders lost and died but left the world weaker and chaos stronger for it, Abaddon survived and accomoplished his objectives piece by piece.


Conceptually they're nearly identical.

The bearded one
22-07-2015, 03:22
Narratively speaking the point of a big bad is that he pushes the heroes to their limit - usually scoring victories along the way up until the 11th hour moment - and then loses in the end.

Archeon in storm of chaos was pushing the heroes, but then lost at Middenheim and got hounded across the province and headbutted into submission by Grimgor; this made him a joke.
In End Times he led the invasion of the world, absolutely obliterating the Empire and Kislev; destroying all the major cities of the Empire and driving the final few remaining defenders out of their last stronhold at Averheim. Then he began activating the doomsday device. Even if Mannfred had not killed Gelt and ruined the heroes' attempt to stop it, Archeon would've gotten within an inch of total victory, so he wouldn't have seemed like a total klutz.

Abbadon has led what amounted to a very massive raiding party ten times or so, spread centuries apart, in various different regions of space, with these crusades requiring close-up analysis to conclude they actually were succeses, but with Abbadon's primary (and thusfar unrealized) goal being to open up the Cadian Gate, which is the Imperium's first line of defence rather than its final bastion. All in all Abbadon hasn't really pushed the "heroes" to their limit. Instead he's very nearly managed to get his foot in the door and tell them about the word of chaos.

Ayin
22-07-2015, 04:08
Narratively speaking the point of a big bad is that he pushes the heroes to their limit - usually scoring victories along the way up until the 11th hour moment - and then loses in the end.

Archeon in storm of chaos was pushing the heroes, but then lost at Middenheim and got hounded across the province and headbutted into submission by Grimgor; this made him a joke.
In End Times he led the invasion of the world, absolutely obliterating the Empire and Kislev; destroying all the major cities of the Empire and driving the final few remaining defenders out of their last stronhold at Averheim. Then he began activating the doomsday device. Even if Mannfred had not killed Gelt and ruined the heroes' attempt to stop it, Archeon would've gotten within an inch of total victory, so he wouldn't have seemed like a total klutz.

Abbadon has led what amounted to a very massive raiding party ten times or so, spread centuries apart, in various different regions of space, with these crusades requiring close-up analysis to conclude they actually were succeses, but with Abbadon's primary (and thusfar unrealized) goal being to open up the Cadian Gate, which is the Imperium's first line of defence rather than its final bastion. All in all Abbadon hasn't really pushed the "heroes" to their limit. Instead he's very nearly managed to get his foot in the door and tell them about the word of chaos.

Indeed, but Abaddon has been the sole actor of all the Black Crusades, where Archaon was the final (13th?) Everchosen. It's not as if Archaon just stepped up and it only took one try to do what Abaddon has never been able to accomplish, there were 12 guys before him and most people can't even name more than two (first and second last).


Also remember that GW wrote themselves into a terrible corner in the original Storm of Chaos where they were beholden to the results of the online campaign. The extreme weakness of the 6th ed Chaos lists led to them just getting drubbed, with at least one major group not even reaching Middenheim and then the campaign battles to take the city not even being close. Along the way the Demon lists posted so few victories they weren't even an issue, and the Beasts of Chaos getting absolutely destroyed by Woodelves (with I believe the greatest Win/Loss difference happening between these two forces). Considering how badly the online Campaign went, Archaon was written to be significantly more effective than 'his' forces actually were in-game.

The bearded one
22-07-2015, 06:36
Archeon is the 5th everchosen, as far as we know.

Both Abbadon and Archeon's successes were more less constrained by the nature of these world-wide campaigns, because of which they're not horribly impressive. Circling back to the comment made earlier that made us go on this particular tangent: "Archaon is the lord of end times, if he doesn't win in the end, he's turned into a joke (see SoC)"

I am disinclined to fully agree with that statement: In short my point is this ->, ET: Archeon wouldn't be a joke if he had lost, but SoC Archeon and Abbadon are considered jokes due to their specific circumstances, and the manner of their defeat/failure:

- 1) Archeon as presented during End Times would not have been a joke even if the incarnates had managed to close the rift - because he'd completely beaten the everliving bejeezus out of the heroes and he and his allies had essentially razed the entire old world (and new) into the dirt, and had come within a hair's breath of destroying the entire world. Had he been killed and the rift sealed, he wouldn't have been a joke: he would have been an impressive villain with a very scary trackrecord and we'd have been happy he died because the world wouldn't be able to handle Archeon coming back for a second attempt.
- 2) Archeon during the Storm of Chaos narrative was initially scary as he fought his way towards Middenheim, then got beaten off and headbutted into submission by Grimgor who didn't bother killing him, and chased back across the province. From memory I think the remains of his army sheltered in a little village at one point, where they were bombarded by artillery. SoC Archeon failed abysmally. He almost did less than Asavar Kull, who didn't get beyond Kislev.
- 3) Your mileage may vary on Abbadon. He has led 13 black crusades - though a number of them were not much more than large raiding parties, or attacks on 1 planet or stronghold - some of which were succesful and others were failures, but regardless of the damage they inflicted none of these broke the back of the Imperium. Or even its pinky. A planet here, some damage in a sector there. The most important objective was to open the cadian gate for chaos incursions, and so far he hasn't gotten further than a foothold. Even after opening the Cadian gate Abbadon would've only accomplished a small part of his task of destroying the Imperium. Compared to SoC Archeon, Abbadon is pretty decent though.

Main villains often only become a 'joke' if they survive and slink away. But out of these 3 ET Archeon clearly pushed the heroes to the brink, even if he had failed at the rift. There was little for the heroes left to save but ashes. Ergo, ET Archeon was not a joke, regardless of whether he'd lost or won.


Sorry, I got carried away a little. I just like talking about these topics.

Urgat
22-07-2015, 06:57
ET: Archeon wouldn't be a joke if he had lost,

Yes he would, because he's not just an Everchosen, he's the Lord of the End Times, he's always been presented as the last one, the one that will destroy the world. So if he fails? The gods raise their hands, say "oops!" and ask for one more chance please?


- 2) Archeon during the Storm of Chaos narrative was initially scary

Was not. He wouldn't even have reached Middenheim if GW didn't give him a push in the narrative.

Ayin
22-07-2015, 07:03
Archeon is the 5th everchosen, as far as we know.

You're right, I'm pretty sure I was getting mixed up with the 13th Black Crusade.



- 2) Archeon during the Storm of Chaos narrative was initially scary as he fought his way towards Middenheim, then got beaten off and headbutted into submission by Grimgor who didn't bother killing him, and chased back across the province. From memory I think the remains of his army sheltered in a little village at one point, where they were bombarded by artillery. SoC Archeon failed abysmally. He almost did less than Asavar Kull, who didn't get beyond Kislev.

It's almost difficult to believe how badly ALL the villains in the SoC did. Everyone talks about Archaon getting headbutted and then just slinking away...I guess, but let's not forget Manfred who showed up immediately after and was beaten by the Grand Theogenist by...explaining how another Vampire in another time was also beaten by another Grand Theogenist... And of course the Beasts didn't even get characters, as they lost so badly no effort was put into them in the fluff.



Sorry, I got carried away a little. I just like talking about these topics.

No worries, the background and stories of Fantasy, not just the actual fiction of the world but the real world decisions and the people behind them and the consequences of those decisions and how they also shaped that world is an incredibly interesting topic.

The bearded one
22-07-2015, 07:42
Yes he would, because he's not just an Everchosen, he's the Lord of the End Times, he's always been presented as the last one, the one that will destroy the world. So if he fails? The gods raise their hands, say "oops!" and ask for one more chance please?

Has Chaos ever played fair?

Generally main villains don't retroactively become a joke when they get beaten at very last moment by the skin of the heroes' teeth. Almost all villains in almost all media get beaten at the end - only few are 'jokes'. The key reason I disagree with this logical reasoning is because this definition of labeling ET Archeon a joke had he lost at the end at the rift is entirely dependant on "he has to win because it's in his name", with loss instantly relegating him to the lowest tier of judgement (joke, failure, klutz), rather than by rendering judgement on his actions in the entire preceding narrative. By that verdict ET Archeon would've been a joke and a klutz even if literally everyone had been dead except for one married couple on the last un-burned farm in the world.

ET Archeon razed the whole world to the ground to such a dilligent degree that everyone would've basically died from starvation and beastmen. Freaking beastmen. Had Archeon died at the rift, he may have failed at his objective of tearing reality asunder, but he wouldn't have been a joke and a failure. He'd be an unsuccesful villain (which is essentially all villains), with an impressive record of achievements during ET. SoC Archeon accomplished laughably little - now that guy was really a joke. We don't call him a joke because he didn't live up to the words in his title, we call him a joke because he failed to live up to any reasonable standard at all, struggled to get to the big battle, lost embarrasingly, and slinked off.


Was not. He wouldn't even have reached Middenheim if GW didn't give him a push in the narrative.

See, I haven't really consciously experienced Storm of Chaos (I woke up and there was a man in my shower who told me good morning), I just "researched" everything afterwards, and I've never taken the best look at the very initial stages of the campaign - but in terms of narrative Archeon was introduced as "grargh, lord of the end times with a bazillion warriors and daemons at his back marching towards the empire! Grargh, blood fire and daemons!" right? It may have turned out in terms of campaign results that Archeon from that very moment on had a tough time actually getting anywhere (which makes him even a bigger joke than I initially presumed as he struggled literally the entire campaign and accomplished nothing of substance), but at least the initial character-brief before the campaign started was 'scary! Apocalypse!'

Bloodknight
22-07-2015, 08:27
ith at least one major group not even reaching Middenheim

They wrote some piece about the Tzeentch guy getting killed for being useless, and replaced, I think. None of the Chaos armies made it to Middenheim through player agency, they all basically got teleported there per ordre de Mufti. The cities that fell on the way were all plot triggered because the outcomes of the games would have had Chaos dying on the outer walls of the Empire. I remember being pretty pissed at this. Back in the day, the Dogs of War players organized to defend the city of Bohsenfels and we had a 70% win ratio. Basically Gav had to pull the rug from under us there because otherwise Chaos would have been stuck there already, on the outskirts.

But, to be fair, in the end, it was the Orc players that did it because they did not accept being lumped in with Chaos in the campaign, so they just fought anyone.

Urgat
22-07-2015, 12:45
But, to be fair, in the end, it was the Orc players that did it because they did not accept being lumped in with Chaos in the campaign, so they just fought anyone.

Guilty as charged. But (personally) I regret nothing, that was fun. GW thought we'd stick to a plan? Greenskin players tend to stick to the greenskin mentality. And a warm wave of applause for our chaos dwarf friends who sided with us out of spite :evilgrin:

The_Real_Chris
22-07-2015, 13:38
The 40k campaign was equalled stymied. The Imperium (thanks in part to their tireless fleets, in the BFG tournie where I got a campaign card - underwhelming - few could compete with the min-maxed Imperial lists... The skirmish force of 3 dauntless and 1 emperor was especially poorly received...) crushed chaos in space, while doing poorly on the planets. The reality of that makes all the planetary campaigns impossible to sustain. Poor bit of writing there, if GW wanted more dynamism they should have had NPCs control elements linked to logistics...

I think had they kept doing them they would have worked out how to run them properly. But I guess that involved a staff overhead, which might reduce dividends because increased sales wouldn't be guarantied...

speedygogo
22-07-2015, 14:21
We live in a digital age and most 12 yr old boys care far more about video games and YouTube than miniature wargamming. The would be far more likely to play card games like Pokemon or Magic. GW tried that but wasn't successful. I think GW is chasing the past, kids from the 70's and 80's that loved D&D and GW. Those are the very same people that GW pushed many away with the AOS release. Most of the people I know that are excited about the game are 40k players upset about the lack of balance in 40k. Age of Sigmar seems to be designed to chase ghost money because their target consumer largely doesn't exist.