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saberslash127
18-07-2015, 09:41
Since Games Workshop and Creative Assembly are working together to create this game, I think that this might be a wonderful oppurnity for them to still continue to expand the Warhammer fantasy lore....As mention by their interviews, they said that they will be adding a total of 15 factions (as well as possible nations such as Bretonnia, Tilea, Estalia, Araby and so on).....To me, this is pretty exciting as since Creative Assembly is pretty greedy in their DLC's, I could possible see the introduction of Estalia as a proper nation DLC since the first game includes every nation within the Old World, which would be filled with lore provided by Games Workshop (Estalia had never had an army book at all and has little lore).....

So what do you guys think? The game supposively doesn't follow the End Times doom of the world story arc....and to some this seems like a good indicator of the continuation of the original Warhammer fantasy franchise.....its almost basically like the old times when the Old World was simply at a static timeline....

Allen
18-07-2015, 09:56
Since Games Workshop and Creative Assembly are working together to create this game, I think that this might be a wonderful oppurnit'y for them to still continue to expand the Warhammer fantasy lore....As mention by their interviews, they said that they will be adding a total of 15 factions (as well as possible nations such as Bretonnia, Tilea, Estalia, Araby and so on).....To me, this is pretty exciting as since Creative Assembly is pretty greedy in their DLC's, I could possible see the introduction of Estalia as a proper nation DLC since the first game includes every nation within the Old World, which would be filled with lore provided by Games Workshop (Estalia had never had an army book at all and has little lore).....

So what do you guys think? The game supposively doesn't follow the End Times doom of the world story arc....and to some this seems like a good indicator of the continuation of the original Warhammer fantasy franchise.....its almost basically like the old times when the Old World was simply at a static timeline....

So that's the new Linus' blanket of the community now? A Total War game? For your information, there's also a pretty good game based in Mordheim, and it's a STEAM early access. Does that mean GW is going to support again tabletop Mordheim? No. There's a game in the making about Inquisitor. Does that mean GW is going to support tabletop Inquisitor again? No.

GW in lending its IP left and right because that's the way you make money as a corporation. It's not part of a market strategy to reintroduce WHFB.

Ayin
18-07-2015, 10:34
It's not that the game "doesn't follow the End Times doom of the world story arc", it's just set in classic Fantasy 'right before the end' timeline, where Karl Franz is the emperor (which he was for, what, a decade?) but Archaon hasn't started his invasion yet.

The games not going to cause a continuation of the Fantasy line at GW. Fantasy is done. AoS is their 'not-40k' product line. it's also not going to cause an in-company revival of Fantasy. The money is already into production of AoS, it's not stopping.

As for Factions, they could cover 13 factions, and that's just the last standing set of Fantasy armybooks. Throw in some other well established forces like Kislev or different Empire territories and they will never be in a situation where GW (or anyone else as part of the designing) needs to come up with anything new.

warriorpoet1
18-07-2015, 14:46
there's also a pretty good game based in Mordheim, and it's a STEAM early access. Does that mean GW is going to support again tabletop Mordheim? No. There's a game in the making about Inquisitor. Does that mean GW is going to support tabletop Inquisitor again? No.

This is a pretty apt point. GW seem to be loaning its IP out to alot of different game companies these days. We seen more GW licenced games in the last few years than in GW's heydays of the 1990s early 2000s. As well as the Mordheim and Inquisitor games, theres a Battlefleet Gothic game in development too. I love BFG, I'd love for them to bring it back, but apart from a possible one of like Dreadfleet, this game is the best we'll ever get. Making games of all the properties that they own but are currently dormant is very sound business practice. You keep your rights to an IP, make connections within the video game world, and make money without having to do anything at all.

ScruffMan
18-07-2015, 14:51
This is a pretty apt point. GW seem to be loaning its IP out to alot of different game companies these days. We seen more GW licenced games in the last few years than in GW's heydays of the 1990s early 2000s. As well as the Mordheim and Inquisitor games, theres a Battlefleet Gothic game in development too. I love BFG, I'd love for them to bring it back, but apart from a possible one of like Dreadfleet, this game is the best we'll ever get. Making games of all the properties that they own but are currently dormant is very sound business practice. You keep your rights to an IP, make connections within the video game world, and make money without having to do anything at all.


Hope someone decent gets the Necromunda license then because I'd give all my money to a faithful rendition of that.

taurus-marstein
18-07-2015, 18:39
In all likelihood, if total war: warhammer is a success, then they will release a sequel based on the end times.
I personally would love this. The end times were interesting.

But I don't thing GW is making this game to reintroduce WFB. I suspect CA has wanted to do warhammer total war for a long time, and GW has finally given them the rights to do it because AoS is nothing like the Old World.

No one will play total war instead of buying a huge warhammer army... because warhammer armies dontt exist anymore.

They aren't making an AoS game yet because they want to sell miniatures, not games.

So I see this as a complete closure for GW on the IP of the old world. They are selling it like a cheap elderly cow that they've milked to near-death and are looking to make a quick buck off of.

Col. Tartleton
19-07-2015, 03:51
Total Warhammer as I understand it is a trilogy set roughly from 2502 to 2522. Karl Franz is the Emperor and Nagash hasn't returned and Archaon hasn't invaded. Although they said they aren't keeping track of years just turns and its obviously more open ended. Even if they wanted to, the End Times would end up being a mess of scripted events instead of the more sandbox campaigns the games provide.

DarkChaplain
19-07-2015, 06:25
But I don't thing GW is making this game to reintroduce WFB. I suspect CA has wanted to do warhammer total war for a long time, and GW has finally given them the rights to do it because AoS is nothing like the Old World.

[....]

So I see this as a complete closure for GW on the IP of the old world. They are selling it like a cheap elderly cow that they've milked to near-death and are looking to make a quick buck off of.

GW isn't "making this game" at all, and the license was purchased by SEGA/The Creative Assembly years ago, long before any rumors of a possible End Times story were even circulating. It took them years to start marketing and officially announcing it, though, mostly due to Rome 2 being in active development - and broken on release, ergo lots of negative press that wouldn't have made them look good for announcing their first non-historical game.

I doubt the license was cheap. SEGA likely had to pony up a large amount of cash to get their hands on it. This deal is also reaching years back, unlike most ofthe recent games. There is only one End Times game announced for now - Vermintide by Fatshark, and it'll likely be quite similar to War of the Roses/Vikings as a result. What else is there licensed for Fantasy nowadays? Mortheim? Not the full WHFB license, just Mortheim. Blood Bowl? Blood Bowl license. Warhammer Quest? Warhammer Quest license.

The last game that was actually attempting to capture WHFB, and had the full license, was Mark of Chaos/Battle March. That released in 2006, when GW still gave a damn about Fantasy. And even back then people were clamoring for a Total War based Warhammer game - Mark of Chaos came close, but lacked the polish you'd expect from a Total War game (which, obviously, Rome 2 did not have).

It is also HIGHLY unlikely that The Creative Assembly or SEGA were in any way aware of GW's plans to can WHFB when they acquired the license. They probably feel kinda screwed over by GW.
The announcement of the "partnership" with GW was made in late 2012, with nothing to show of the game until 2015, due to other projects (Rome II, Attila, Alien: Isolation). The negotiations for the license probably reach back to early 2012 at the very least.

Gork or Possibly Mork
19-07-2015, 17:48
Not a big fan of CA adding factions that aren't fleshed out in WHFB fluff i.e. Estalia etc.. Dogs of war i'd be fine with and Chaos Dwarfs but not Estalia, Araby, Cathay, Ind, Amazons, Norse, etc. etc.

If they say they're adding 15 factions total that sounds to me like they're adding all official factions. I don't think they will do this right away. They will probably have like 8 on launch then add the other official factions as DLC. An Endtimes sequel would definitely be interesting. AOS game down the road could be cool too once the factions are fleshed out.

I would LOVE if they made an actual PC game that functioned exactly like a table top version of 8th Edition. Sort of like Vassal but fully 3D and functioning exactly like the TT game. Of course that would be too much work with researching & coding all the rules & GW would never allow it anyway even if they are done with supporting WHFB.

Lastly i wish CA would quit focusing on eye candy and pushing the graphics and get back to the MTW 2 Kingdoms era when they had their chit together. These new games i can hardly play anymore on my dated PC and they're not as good anyway. I also hated when they attached it to Steam. Steam is ok but a pain in the ass to download, install and get constant updates if you don't have the best internet connection with things timing out. It never should have been mandatory. You should have been able to do a full install from disk and just play.

Sothron
19-07-2015, 19:39
I want all the official armies and include Chaos Dwarfs as an option. If they then want to add Tilea or Araby, etc that's fine but at least get all the official armies and Chaos Dwarfs in.

Moirdryd
19-07-2015, 20:32
*thinks on WHFB lore and the distinct forces there have been....*

Dark Elves
High Elves
Empire
Bretonnia
Orks & Goblins
Dwarves
Chaos Dwarves
Warriors of Chaos
Beasts of Chaos
Daemons of Chaos
Tomb Kings
Vampire Counts (aka the Border Princes)
Skaven
Nagash's undead hordes
Cathayan
Nipponese
Arabyans
Hun
Norse
Lizardmen
Amazonians
Kislevites
Ogre Kingdoms
Wood Elves

Griefbringer
19-07-2015, 20:40
*thinks on WHFB lore and the distinct forces there have been....*

Vampire Counts (aka the Border Princes)


I think certain inhabitants of the Border Princes might want to have a word about this... not to mention that you forgot the Hobgoblin tribes of the Steppes. As well as Tileans and Estalians.

The_Real_Chris
20-07-2015, 00:47
It's true... Cyanide has sold over a million copies of bloodbowl. GW saw no reason to issue a 25th anniversary edition and in fact withdrew the bloodbowl teams from obscure sale on their bit of the GW shopping portal. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment...

Sothron
20-07-2015, 01:05
If we are counting factions:

Empire
Dwarf
Orcs & Goblins
Brettonia
High Elf
Dark Elf
Wood Elf
Skaven
Vampire Count
Tomb King
Ogre Kingdom
Beastmen
Warriors of Chaos
Lizardmen
Demons of Chaos

That's 15 armies, CA said they will be doing 15 factions. So no Chaos Dwarf or random human factions.

lbecks
20-07-2015, 01:13
CA always does a bunch of expansions/campaigns for their games. We'll probably get an End Times expansion.

dooms33ker
20-07-2015, 03:18
Total War Warhammer was likely in the works for quite a long time, long before GW settled on the direction of the End Times and AOS, so the game might not be reflective of any direction GW is looking to go into on the miniatures front. If the video game is a success and there is continued demand for their old fluff, they will license out more games, but they have demonstrated in the past, and even said so explicitly in interviews, that video games and their tabletop business are separate arms of the company and each plays to its strengths. Probably worth noting that the extra armies and background material is much easier to implement, release and support digitally in a video game than in tabletop miniatures. It is certainly possible that Warhammer Fantasy could be revisited on the tabletop in the future, but GW's decision would be more based on sales of miniatures than on video games.

Remember folks, IP is GW's core business.

frankelee
20-07-2015, 03:25
I think some people's imaginations are a little more bigger than CA's ambitions to design. They're making a Warhammer Fantasy Battles version of their game, they're not going to take the time to come up with wacky designs for Estalia, Tilea, Kislev, or some far eastern power. And I seriously doubt they're going to do the End Times as some sort of campaign, it doesn't really fit with what they're trying to do, and would just be a lot of work they could spend doing something that'll bring in more money someday. Once the base game comes out, there will still be 11 factions for them to milk money from.

GrandmasterWang
20-07-2015, 03:49
Just to say Amazons actually had a cool little White Dwarf army list once upon a time.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

lbecks
20-07-2015, 05:39
I think some people's imaginations are a little more bigger than CA's ambitions to design. They're making a Warhammer Fantasy Battles version of their game, they're not going to take the time to come up with wacky designs for Estalia, Tilea, Kislev, or some far eastern power. And I seriously doubt they're going to do the End Times as some sort of campaign, it doesn't really fit with what they're trying to do, and would just be a lot of work they could spend doing something that'll bring in more money someday. Once the base game comes out, there will still be 11 factions for them to milk money from.

CA did an "End Times" Expansion for Rome 2. It's Attila Total War. I expect the game to come with a few factions and then they'll sell extra factions for 8+ dollars and new campaigns either as expansions like Casear in Gaul or Wrath of Sparta or overhauled pseudo-new games like Attila.

Wesser
20-07-2015, 08:38
GW no longer care where a video games might do to old characters, settings and fluff. They've already released the canonical ending for it all, so no IP stuff is in danger anymore. It's basically a bit of extra free money

Twido
20-07-2015, 14:05
From What I've heard from interviews at E3, the game will launch with 4 playable factions these being: Empire, Dwarves, Green skins and Vampire counts. Obviously this could change between now and release. They intend to release 3 games covering 3 geographical areas that can stand alone. If you have more than one of the games then they join together to share one expanded game world.

For me the jury is still out on this game, it has loads of potential but could easily go very wrong (after the debacle of Rome II there are question marks about the ability of CA). 4 races is not many but if they are implemented really well it might not be so bad. It was not clear if some other races would be in game but unplayable or absent entirely.

DarkChaplain
20-07-2015, 18:19
To be fair, Attila launched in a far better state than Rome II did. And with Steam's new refund policy (thank Karl Franz for that!), I don't think SEGA or CA can really risk launching another game in that state. Especially after seeing what happened to Batman: Arkham Knight.

Wasn't Chaos also confirmed to be in as a 5th faction already?

Sothron
20-07-2015, 20:42
You know the rumors are that they horde system in Attila was actually made for TW:Warhammer and they used that technology for Attila.

RunepriestRidcully
21-07-2015, 12:00
I've had about a dozen mates ask me about starting fanatasy after the trailer, as soon as I tell them about Age of sigmar ect they lose interest or decide to go to ebay for armies.

Niall78
21-07-2015, 12:20
I've had about a dozen mates ask me about starting fanatasy after the trailer, as soon as I tell them about Age of sigmar ect they lose interest or decide to go to ebay for armies.

Seems absolutely crazy for a company to completely kill a setting that is just about to feature in one of the biggest IPs of recent computer gaming history. It seems like one of the most insane exercises of foot shooting I've ever witnessed from a games company.

TW:Warhammer will shift more than a million copies if past sales of TW are anything to go by. GW now have zero products to capitalise on that success.

Sothron
21-07-2015, 15:52
Seems absolutely crazy for a company to completely kill a setting that is just about to feature in one of the biggest IPs of recent computer gaming history. It seems like one of the most insane exercises of foot shooting I've ever witnessed from a games company.

TW:Warhammer will shift more than a million copies if past sales of TW are anything to go by. GW now have zero products to capitalise on that success.

Honestly this is one of the main reasons I flat out didn't believe the rumors for the last several months that GW was really killing off WHFB and replacing it with a TM/copyright crap that turned into AoS. Why would any company destroy a setting that literally was going to the setting for a massive PC game that millions will play? Why wouldn't want to capitalize on that momentum and turn people into tabletop fans?

But then, yeah, GW happened. There's still a chance Total Warhammer is such a big hit that it forces GW to come back with WHFB in the Old World setting but that's a slim one.

Kerill
21-07-2015, 17:14
Its more likely they are trying to flog off these parts of their IP while there is still some backing/knowledge/novels and books of them. Once abandoned the warhammer world etc. IP value can only decrease so it only makes sense to offload it all now.

What is the mordheim game? That could be tremendous fun if done well.

dalezzz
21-07-2015, 17:20
The mordheim game seems decent , I'm holding off playing anymore though until they get some campaign stuff in there.

There re is also the end times skaven game ( looked kinda like left for dead with skaven instead of zombies when I last checked it out) so there's 3 games due out this year? ( or in mordheims case due to be finished this year) based on WFBs setting

Niall78
21-07-2015, 19:16
The mordheim game seems decent , I'm holding off playing anymore though until they get some campaign stuff in there.

There re is also the end times skaven game ( looked kinda like left for dead with skaven instead of zombies when I last checked it out) so there's 3 games due out this year? ( or in mordheims case due to be finished this year) based on WFBs setting

I remember when the MechWarrior and MechCommander games were released. They were a big success. At the back of each of the manuals were adverts for the tabletop game. This brought thousands of new players to the setting at near zero cost to the TT company.

GW will have a near zero chance of capitalising on the success of any of these games. They simply don't have a product that corresponds to the setting in these games. Seems like absolute business madness - other companies would kill for these kinds of corporate synergies to promote their products.

dalezzz
21-07-2015, 19:22
It does seem full mental , all I can think of is that GW no longer cares if other company's mess up the ip a bit now they have ditched it , so they arnt bothered about who does what with it anymore

lbecks
21-07-2015, 20:22
I've had about a dozen mates ask me about starting fanatasy after the trailer, as soon as I tell them about Age of sigmar ect they lose interest or decide to go to ebay for armies.

Do they play tabletop games already or is everything new for them?

RunepriestRidcully
22-07-2015, 10:00
One used to play 40k but she had dropped out due to costs and the rat race the game had become with the introduction of fliers, some have dabbled a fews a go, others had tried other model games but not liked it and some had just done board games before.

lbecks
23-07-2015, 10:18
I think the biggest impact on sales for other GW products from people exposed to warhammer through total war will be the novels and then maybe single models because people want a physical representation of their favorite character or unit.

Buddy Bear
23-07-2015, 10:25
It's pretty shocking when you think that GW's got all these electronic games out there for Blood Bowl, Warhammer Quest, and I think Battlefleet Gothic is on its way, but have shown no interest in doing anything to capitalize on that potential interest by rereleasing those games. They certainly won't do it for Warhammer Fantasy after they just buried it.

EagleWarrior
23-07-2015, 13:40
There's an extent to which computer games and tabletop games don't really compete with each other and have little to do with one-another. I think this is why GW hasn't really got into computer gaming beyond licensing and I'm glad of it because I'd hate to see them stopping making models if computer games proved more profitable.

That said, W:TW may help to keep the world alive and help people keep playing in the warhammer world despite AoS.