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View Full Version : Long-term use of old world armies...



BBWags
19-07-2015, 20:17
Let me start by saying that there is a huge difference between reality and intention, so hear me: I am asking about GW's current intention regarding the "legal playability" of old world armies (essentially 8th edition armies as currently reworked in the PDF war scrolls). I don't care if they are viable in terms of power or overall playability... Is there any indication that these armies will remain LEGAL throughout AOS regardless of the newer armies that come out? I loved 8th but it's been a couple years since I played due to real life situations. Personally, so far I've hated the AOS rule set but my life is starting to calm down so I was thinking of just doing the hobby thing for a while and painting up some of my favorite old school units. And while I love the hobby stuff, I do hope that what I paint might actually be put on the table again some day (even if it is with a crappy rule set). Has GW clarified this at all, does anyone know?

SuperHappyTime
19-07-2015, 20:32
Let me start by saying that there is a huge difference between reality and intention, so hear me: I am asking about GW's current intention regarding the "legal playability" of old world armies (essentially 8th edition armies as currently reworked in the PDF war scrolls). I don't care if they are viable in terms of power or overall playability... Is there any indication that these armies will remain LEGAL throughout AOS regardless of the newer armies that come out? I loved 8th but it's been a couple years since I played due to real life situations. Personally, so far I've hated the AOS rule set but my life is starting to calm down so I was thinking of just doing the hobby thing for a while and painting up some of my favorite old school units. And while I love the hobby stuff, I do hope that what I paint might actually be put on the table again some day (even if it is with a crappy rule set). Has GW clarified this at all, does anyone know?

Legal? As "Legal" as we will ever get. There isn't going to be a point system.

Usable? 8th Models will probably be outclassed by their AoS counterparts in a year or two.

After AoS? There is no guarantee. I would not be surprised if they are gone.

Griefbringer
19-07-2015, 20:36
Considering the rather free form force construction rules in AoS, I am not sure how much of an issue the "legality" of those war scrolls will really be.

However, GW is likely to drop those PDFs from their website at some point, so make sure you have local copies of them in a safe location...

TheFang
19-07-2015, 21:04
Given GW's secrecy then no-one really knows. Given the lack of any balance or force organisation it won't matter. As Griefbringer says it may be as well to save your own backups. As the armies like Orruks are replaced then there's every chance in my opinion the Orc warscrolls will vanish to avoid confusion.

Tyberos
19-07-2015, 21:05
I think its quite safe to assume that they'll be pulling the older kits over time from shelves, and their web store. Remember Age of Sigmar replaces Warhammer, it isn't an expansion to it.

BBWags
19-07-2015, 21:19
Yeah I guess I'm fully aware that the kits themselves won't be available forever, I was just more concerned about the PDFs themselves. The situation involves the hope that IF I had a bunch of, say, wood elf models that I've enjoyed painting and I wanted to take them to my flgs and plonk them on the table as actual wood elves... Could I do that? IF the wood elf war scroll is still in the GW site, then that's all the "official support" I'd need... But regardless of if I have a copy of the PDF or not, I would consider GW taking it off their site as being the "official" disqualifier for walking in without pre-arrangement and saying "hey this is my army."

Spiney Norman
19-07-2015, 21:49
There is no legal or illegal in AoS, it is the very definition of a free-for-all, you could make up your own warscrolls for non-GW models for all the difference it will make to the game, it's not like you can screw up the pt costing of them.

Heck, since bases are unimportant that gives all kinds of scope for expansion of the game, I'd love to see someone write a warscroll for 'large blob of blu-tac' or 'half-full wineglass' for instance.

Holier Than Thou
19-07-2015, 22:00
There is no legal or illegal in AoS, it is the very definition of a free-for-all, you could make up your own warscrolls for non-GW models for all the difference it will make to the game, it's not like you can screw up the pt costing of them.

Heck, since bases are unimportant that gives all kinds of scope for expansion of the game, I'd love to see someone write a warscroll for 'large blob of blu-tac' or 'half-full wineglass' for instance.

Will it have a special rule that if I have one trouser leg rolled up and smear human excrement on my face I get to take away my opponent's dice so they can't make any attacks or saves so I win?

TheFang
19-07-2015, 22:40
I'd love to see someone write a warscroll for 'large blob of blu-tac' or 'half-full wineglass' for instance.
Or it's arch enemy the half-empty wineglass. Be ideal if the wineglass could summon more. ;)

BBWags
19-07-2015, 22:47
While I certainly appreciate the sarcasm, in fairness I don't think AOS is quite that free form... Maybe I should just abandon this idea altogether. Not to mention that my wife would KILL me if I started painting models due to how obsessive I was with the game when I did play... I just liked the thought of it being back there in the background of life... But I guess I need to get over that.

The realities of this game (and its creator company) makes me sad :-(

Flipmode
19-07-2015, 22:54
They'll be alright for months. Possibly a few years.

Will that minor special character still exist once new factions are rolled out? Unlikely. Unless you are at the 'god' end of the character scale you probably haven't survived the intervening millenia.

But... Will there still be a 'captain on a horse' that you can count-as? Probably.

Philhelm
20-07-2015, 02:33
There is no legal or illegal in AoS, it is the very definition of a free-for-all, you could make up your own warscrolls for non-GW models for all the difference it will make to the game, it's not like you can screw up the pt costing of them.

Heck, since bases are unimportant that gives all kinds of scope for expansion of the game, I'd love to see someone write a warscroll for 'large blob of blu-tac' or 'half-full wineglass' for instance.

Wyneglasse

Description: A glasse of wyne. Wyneglasses are equipped with a Corkeshotte and a Glassestompe; additionally, they may be equipped with a Corkeshield, Foyleshield, Thyckglasse Shield, or a Mistyckal Wyne Aura Shield.

Unit Size: 1

Move: 1
Wounds: 8
Armor: 4+
Bravery: 1

Attacks:
Corkeshotte: Attacks: 1; Range: 20"; To Hit: 3+; To Wound: 3+; Damage: D6; Rend: 2
Glassestompe: Attacks: 3; Range: 1"; To Hit: 4+; To Wound: 3+; Damage: D3; Rend: 1; Additionally, if the player actually breaks any of the opposing player's models while crushing them beneath the Wyneglasse, add +1 To Hit and +1 To Wound during that Combat Phase.

Special:
Brokynglasse: At the beginning of the combat phase, the Wyneglasse can break itself showering the enemy unit with shards of glasse. The Wyneglasse immediately take 1 mortal wound, but inflicts D6 mortal wounds on the enemy unit.
Corke Shield: Adds +1 to Armor Saves if struck by an enemy with a rend value of -.
Foyle Shield: May re-roll Armor Save rolls of 1.
Thyckglasse Shield: Subtract 1 from the attacking enemy's To Wound roll.
Mistyckal Wyne Aura Shield: May unbind spells like a Wizard.

dugaal
20-07-2015, 03:06
Wyneglasse

Description: A glasse of wyne. Wyneglasses are equipped with a Corkeshotte and a Glassestompe; additionally, they may be equipped with a Corkeshield, Foyleshield, Thyckglasse Shield, or a Mistyckal Wyne Aura Shield.

Unit Size: 1

Nice use of GW "Traidemarcname"s There, but the glass seems too strong... too many rules to increase its durability or save, it's glass! I'd prefer to see it cause radius mortal wounds on destruction on flooding the field or some Hero command ability where it pours wine on friendly unit, something better than inspiring presence.

As Spiney Norman put it, without points in the game homebrew rules are quite simple to make. Hell if half your models are on home-printed PDFs, a savvy Illustrator user could replicate the exact style of GW warscrolls and opponents would be none-the-wiser! (spirit of the game and all that you would disclose it I'm sure)

And if some neckbeards came around to the game I'm sure old Chaos dwarf, Norse etc. Battlescrolls will pop up.

big squig
20-07-2015, 03:15
A lot of the current mini I imagine will be phased out over time for new units. A lot of units from 8th will never make it past the legacy warscrolls. We will still have all the forces, dwarves, orcs, elves, what not. But not all units from those forces will make it. New stuff for those armies will be released instead.

If you're looking for points costs though, there will never be any.

big squig
20-07-2015, 03:17
without pre-arrangement and saying "hey this is my army."

Well, to be fair, if you're going to play AoS with anyone with any force, you're going to have to do some pre-arrangement. AoS actively blocks pick-up games.

Mawduce
20-07-2015, 03:40
Well, to be fair, if you're going to play AoS with anyone with any force, you're going to have to do some pre-arrangement. AoS actively blocks pick-up games.

which is funny because it was designed to block competitive play.

Don Zeko
20-07-2015, 04:48
It's almost as if writing a balancing mechanic into your rules makes the game better for players.

GrandmasterWang
20-07-2015, 05:02
Imo they will ALL remain legal in various forms. Buy away.

That's the whole point of AoS, anything and everything is legal.

You will always be able to use the miniatures you purchase in AOS.

Imo legality will not be an issue for you at all. The whole point of AOS is that you can buy whatever you want and play it

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Philhelm
20-07-2015, 05:07
...too many rules to increase its durability or save, it's glass!

Well, the thick glass is much stronger than your plastic spear tips. :D

Also, I wanted it to have a few shield options (of which you can pick one), since Age of Sigmar is all about shield variety.

Griefbringer
20-07-2015, 08:58
That Wyneglasse really needs a few blocks of Cheddarey to lend it close support. Maybe there should also be some sort of a formation rules that give them synergy bonuses?

Holier Than Thou
20-07-2015, 09:07
Imo they will ALL remain legal in various forms. Buy away.

That's the whole point of AoS, anything and everything is legal.

You will always be able to use the miniatures you purchase in AOS.

Imo legality will not be an issue for you at all. The whole point of AOS is that you can buy whatever you want and play it

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

But the whole point of Games Workshop is to make you buy new stuff, that's what all the pro-AOSers say is the reason for AOS, because Fantasy players weren't buying. As soon as the new models for different factions come out with different names, aesthetic style and possibly scale GW will state that old models are no longer compatible so you need to buy x, y and z.

GrandmasterWang
20-07-2015, 09:30
As soon as the new models for different factions come out with different names, aesthetic style and possibly scale GW will state that old models are no longer compatible so you need to buy x, y and z.

I doubt that very very much. GW have already come out and said that all old models are valid in AOS officially via White Dwarf.

GW have never ever to my knowledge in their history stated that "old models are no longer compatible" so imo they will not do it now.... especially since they have officially said they are all valid.

GW does want you to buy new models but they will do this by making the new models bigger/better/shinier etc etc just like they have always done.

Case in point. .. new 40k Devastator kit with leg guards, bigger/better/shinier to entice buys, nothing at all done to invalidate old devastators. Same with all their other new kits.

Hell look at the AOS box set, there are new Marauders, BSB, Chaos Chosen and Chaos Lord equivalents.... nothing done to invalidate the existing Marauders etc etc

Like you say they will try to entice buys with new Aesthetics/scales etc.... but they will not invalidate the old models by banning them.

GW does a lot of stupid stuff.... banning old models is not one of them!

NatBrannigan
20-07-2015, 09:41
Now this Wyneglasse actually sounds like a fun unit to use! Perhaps it’s wound table could be done on cm of wine still in the glass? You can drink the wine during the game but the unit get’s less effective each time you do, the dilemma!

And clearly you’re on to something with the wine / cheese / cracker formation. Led by the mighty, if slightly slurry, Lord Jaque of coke?

On a related note I had what will probably be my last game of AoS on Saturday night with 5 mates and we’ve cracked it. We now know the secret of AoS! It’s a drinking game! We had a big 5 way free for all with badly thought out multiplayer rules beforehand. Using the Bretonnian Grail Vow rule (“You can re-roll all failed hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice“) as a base and assuming that said goblet should really be full of wine we gave each army this same rule (bonuses for themed drink and container). So the Dwarf player had a tankard of Ale, the elf player a little wine glass of Chardonnay, I made some horrible green Halloween cocktail for my Lizardmen, the Deamon player had Cherryade because he doesn’t drink and then there was the aforementioned Bretonnian Goblet. Down your drink, yell something appropriate to your race and then take your go.

Holier Than Thou
20-07-2015, 09:50
I doubt that very very much. GW have already come out and said that all old models are valid in AOS officially via White Dwarf.

GW have never ever to my knowledge in their history stated that "old models are no longer compatible" so imo they will not do it now.... especially since they have officially said they are all valid.

GW does want you to buy new models but they will do this by making the new models bigger/better/shinier etc etc just like they have always done.

Case in point. .. new 40k Devastator kit with leg guards, bigger/better/shinier to entice buys, nothing at all done to invalidate old devastators. Same with all their other new kits.

Hell look at the AOS box set, there are new Marauders, BSB, Chaos Chosen and Chaos Lord equivalents.... nothing done to invalidate the existing Marauders etc etc

Like you say they will try to entice buys with new Aesthetics/scales etc.... but they will not invalidate the old models by banning them.

GW does a lot of stupid stuff.... banning old models is not one of them!
Yes but the old Devastators and new Devastators are the same unit for the same game. As GW have made abundantly clear, AOS is a completely new game. My zombies are from Warhammer Fantasy Battles, not Warhammer Age of Sigmar. If, when they get round to the Death faction they make a new unit called Shambling Shamblers (TM) then my zombies don't look like them, are a different size and are no longer the same. Ergo, I cannot use them. Yes, GW never outright state you can't use old models, they just make it extremely difficult to do so.

Example. I have collected Grey Knights since the Daemonhunters Codex, I had a full 1500 point army of metal Grey Knights. These came in boxes of 5 with one Incinerator, 3 Halberds and 1 Sword. It didn't matter which weapon they had because they did the same thing but the majority of your army had Halberds. When they bring out the new Codex, guess what? Grey Knights come with Swords as standard and have to pay to upgrade to Halberds. Nobody is going to have nearly their entire army with upgraded weapons so what do you have to do? Buy the new models.

Don't get me wrong, the new models are really nice and I have replaced all of my old metals with them but it would have been nice if it had not been forced upon us. Why couldn't GW have made Halberds the standard and Swords the upgrade? To sell more models, they don't want you using old models and they WILL find a way to do the same with AOS.

Flipmode
20-07-2015, 10:14
The point it will switch (in my opinion) is when a balance/points system is introduced in a later update or 2nd edition. At this point they could just give points to post AoS units, and your old ones fall out of the game (if they cannot be used as proxy).

This will not be any time soon.

Okuto
20-07-2015, 15:39
For long term stability, I'm looking into KoW. I would prefer oldhammer but I'd be playing the same four guys over and over again. I know its not viable so I'm looking into KoW.


I fully expect GW to drop all support for the old model line when it fleshs out AoS's faction model line.

dugaal
20-07-2015, 16:21
Well, the thick glass is much stronger than your plastic spear tips. :D

Also, I wanted it to have a few shield options (of which you can pick one), since Age of Sigmar is all about shield variety.

Ive got some metal stone trolls that beg to differ!
But AoS shield dig, touché

As for the current topic direction the more leaked pictures showing various old armies rebased should demonstrate not everything is getting dumped so soon... Some of the older kits primed for replacement sure but each army looks to be keeping a core of recent kits for the forseeable future; just check the leaks with beastmen armies, undead armies etc.
Though elves and empire...

Urgat
20-07-2015, 17:01
Usable? 8th Models will probably be outclassed by their AoS counterparts in a year or two.

How so? Unless they're burried under special rules and have dozens of wounds, my gobs will still hit on 5+ etc.

Vladyhell
20-07-2015, 17:06
I think they wll be around for a while yet.

The new book even mentions that entire armies from the world-that-was live in Azyrheim.