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View Full Version : Need a new primary, My other two armies are low tier, need advice



madcore
20-07-2015, 13:52
Hey Guys,


I have been out of the hobby for a little while, I was sincerely pissed at GW for *********** up both my CSM and imperial guards with their power Codex like Necrons and Eldars...Just my opinion.


Now I am still pissed but I miss playing with my friends so i decided to start again but slowly. I have been a long time player of CSM and Imperial guards. As we all know, both of these armies are not very competitive anymore. Chaos is chaos, an army too expensive with no good transports while maelstrom is not very gentle on the Guards. While I still love both of my armies, I am getting tired of always fighting an uphill battle so I am looking for a new primary army.


While I wait for my codex to be re-written (might be a while) I was thinking about putting together a new army. And this one needs to be a strong one. My Meta is loaded with Necrons and as you can imagine, my love for armored company was crushed big time. The idea would be to start small, play my guards with these guys as new allies and eventually play these guys with my guards as allies.


Here are the conditions:


- Cannot be Eldars or Necrons (I sold my Eldar and my meta is loaded with Necrons)
- Needs to be a competitive army


For those of you that would suggest Marines, which ones? I already have a small (very small) contingent of Grey Knights, space wolves and Dark angels (starter box)..


That being said, I am open to starting any other chapter...I just have no knowledge of the Space marines and have not yet read their codex (any of them).


Thx for the help guys

Memnos
20-07-2015, 13:55
Imperial Guard aren't competitive? o.O

Throw in one of the special character inquisitors. Job's a good 'un.

madcore
20-07-2015, 14:05
Imperial Guard aren't competitive? o.O

Throw in one of the special character inquisitors. Job's a good 'un.

I should have been more clear, sorry about that. I am not a big fan of running multiple blobs and I love running many Leman russes. I am sure you can guess that in a Necron heavy environment, that is not a very good way to run guards.

A.T.
20-07-2015, 14:06
Combine the two and play chaos renegades perhaps? They are basically guard with a points discount on everything, especially artillery.

To put some context on that - 144 pts will get you 20 renegades putting out 16 S5 pinning blasts per turn. The unit has 28 wounds in all at toughness 7. With the right HQ this is an objective secured troops choice.

madcore
20-07-2015, 14:13
are they competitive overall? I mean Necron type competitive?

A.T.
20-07-2015, 14:49
are they competitive overall? I mean Necron type competitive?They are battle brothers with chaos marines so you can mix them into your existing force and they bring a ton of cheap scoring units, artillery, and flying transports among other things.
As far as competitive goes they are the cheapest artillery I can think of, but make of that what you will.

Neckutter
20-07-2015, 15:03
Chaos Daemons have been a top tier army since 6th edition.

Ya know, 2++ rerollable Jetbikes with armor bane CCWs are pretty decent. And then there's the daemon summoning. Kairos Fateweaver is so OP it's not even funny

Dr.Clock
20-07-2015, 16:14
What flavor are your Chaos??

Khorne Damonkin may not be at the absolute top of the meta heap, but it's got alot of tools to get the job done... It really only hits its stride at 1500 pts+, however, as you need to get in a few 'sacrificial' units AND some more expensive beaters to really make it tick.

Renegades is a good idea as well... though I think generally IG can likely still compete if you're comfortable with 2 CADs. A heavily mechanized list of Wyverns in the back and Russes rolling forward should do alright... although Necrons remain a hard counter to that : (

Have you considered AdMech? You could easily start with a small formation or two to add some teeth to your IG...

While I appreciate the desire to win more games, I think you probably can add in a formation or two from other sources to make either of your existing forces work a bit better in this edition... the SM codex has plenty of formations that can get you some nice utility to increase your scoring coverage without having to take a whole army. 3 units of 5-8 Sternguard in pods, for instance, will still leave you room, and I really like the idea of SM dropping in to help the beleaguered Guard. Even a few small units of scouts might help with your scoring woes...

The Skyhammer is pretty much as reviled balance-wise as are the Eldar and Necrons. With a minimum of 22 models (including the 2 pods), it's pretty cheap points-wise, even if it is going to run you ~300 dollars. It scales pretty well too... meshing very well with a Gladius, for instance.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Mawduce
20-07-2015, 17:51
Adeptus Mechanicus or Orks. Either played correctly can curve stomp.

Poncho160
20-07-2015, 18:00
Daemonkin is a really good codex, and is fairly competitive to boot.

Fithos
20-07-2015, 19:14
Not sure what the problem you are having with 'cron is. Last time I played them with my guard it was fun and I won. Gauss can be nasty but it's short ranged and needs 6 to glance. Meanwhile you are dropping pie plates on them that double many of their toughness thus reducing their rp roll and ignoring their armor. I will admit I had a fair amount of Infantry supporting my tanks but it was still one of the most fun games I have played. And guard can be very mobile with valkyries and chimeras.

If you are sure you want to switch though I would think the new marine codex would be the best that's not necron or eldar. Lots of powerful formations. Take the librarian conclave and dominate the psychic phase (easy to do against necrons.)

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

madcore
20-07-2015, 19:19
What flavor are your Chaos??

Khorne Damonkin may not be at the absolute top of the meta heap, but it's got alot of tools to get the job done... It really only hits its stride at 1500 pts+, however, as you need to get in a few 'sacrificial' units AND some more expensive beaters to really make it tick.

Renegades is a good idea as well... though I think generally IG can likely still compete if you're comfortable with 2 CADs. A heavily mechanized list of Wyverns in the back and Russes rolling forward should do alright... although Necrons remain a hard counter to that : (

Have you considered AdMech? You could easily start with a small formation or two to add some teeth to your IG...

While I appreciate the desire to win more games, I think you probably can add in a formation or two from other sources to make either of your existing forces work a bit better in this edition... the SM codex has plenty of formations that can get you some nice utility to increase your scoring coverage without having to take a whole army. 3 units of 5-8 Sternguard in pods, for instance, will still leave you room, and I really like the idea of SM dropping in to help the beleaguered Guard. Even a few small units of scouts might help with your scoring woes...

The Skyhammer is pretty much as reviled balance-wise as are the Eldar and Necrons. With a minimum of 22 models (including the 2 pods), it's pretty cheap points-wise, even if it is going to run you ~300 dollars. It scales pretty well too... meshing very well with a Gladius, for instance.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

I have to admit that I have though about the Deamonkin book. That being said, I don't know much about them apart that they gather blood point which will allow you to spawn blood thirster....I am not sure what a good list looks like but I am pretty sure I have the models to pull it off (except the new Bloodthister)

I am not sure about renegades, I like my armies to fit together so my guards in my head are an imperial army. If they would go renegade I would need to repaint and that's not gonna happen.

Yes I have considered admech/skitarii, in fact I really like the models but I do not know anything about the armies nor what should be a good addition to IG.

When you are talking about adding a formation or two, that is exactly the approach I am looking for. I want to build slowly and eventually expand. No matter tha route I take, they need to handle Necrons.

madcore
20-07-2015, 19:42
Not sure what the problem you are having with 'cron is. Last time I played them with my guard it was fun and I won. Gauss can be nasty but it's short ranged and needs 6 to glance. Meanwhile you are dropping pie plates on them that double many of their toughness thus reducing their rp roll and ignoring their armor. I will admit I had a fair amount of Infantry supporting my tanks but it was still one of the most fun games I have played. And guard can be very mobile with valkyries and chimeras.

If you are sure you want to switch though I would think the new marine codex would be the best that's not necron or eldar. Lots of powerful formations. Take the librarian conclave and dominate the psychic phase (easy to do against necrons.)

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

ohh...don't get me wrong, I have had a lot of great games against Necrons. I just simply hate wraiths....if you dice are cold, you're dead, nd I am not talking about their guauss weaponry. When a squad of warrior can glance to death a land raider, it clearly shows how GW sucks at balance.

But Like I said, I do not want to completely switch, I love my guards, I just like to have allies that can shake the thing and eventually, these allies could become the primary and eventually a complete army.

Dr.Clock
20-07-2015, 20:39
Fair 'nough...

Daemonkin gain Blood Tithe points for a) every unit destroyed, friend or foe [excepting anything you've allied TO the Daemonkin] b) any character killed in a challenge and c) by means of some detachment/formation/Relic rules.

Some people use the Tithe as a summoning mechanism, it's true... and about half of the effects are summoning ones. I personally use it mostly to buff units and keep my models on the board [one of the Tithe effects is FnP army-wide, and it's pretty darn easy to get it and keep it throughout the game].

My Daemonkin list looks roughly like this:

Slaughtercult Detachment:

Lord - Armour - Axe of Khorne - Jugger - Sigil - 225

8 Berzerkers - axe of khorne - 192

12 ‘Letters - Icon/reaper 140

5 Possessed - 150

4 Spawn - 128

1 Spawn - 32

8 Cultists - 58

WAR ENGINES

Skull Cannon - 125

Maulerfiend - 130

Maulerfiend - 130

COMBINED ARMS

Herald - jugger - Blade of Endless Blood - Wrath - 160

8 Cultists - 58

8 Cultists - 58

2x5 Raptors - 4 melta - 250

13 hounds - 208

As to Admech - I'd start with some Kataphrons - those tracked servitor dudes. Two units of them + a Magos guy can Deep strike together in a formation. It seems to be the easiest place to start for AdMech.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

GrandmasterWang
21-07-2015, 05:28
TC from what you have said Admech/Skit allies for your guard might be just what you are looking for!

Makes background sense and you can definitely increase the competitiveness of your army.

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TaddleMunkey
23-07-2015, 12:39
I'd go with the DA, they are one of my favourite armies to play with the fact that they have so many redeploy options and the added bonus of being the newest codex means that they have a bunch of tricks still left out there to discover.
They are quite fast aswell which helps in the Malestrom missions(if that's the way you play)

madcore
23-07-2015, 18:23
I'd go with the DA, they are one of my favourite armies to play with the fact that they have so many redeploy options and the added bonus of being the newest codex means that they have a bunch of tricks still left out there to discover.
They are quite fast aswell which helps in the Malestrom missions(if that's the way you play)

DA Were on my consideration list. I have not reaf the new codex but I heard it is quite good. Do they still have the option to give a 4++ save to a blob or Ogryns? I think it was Azrael....

I want something fast that can hit hard while taking of pressure on my guards

MadHatter
23-07-2015, 18:41
it sounds to me like you have some great advise here. you do not need to change your armies, just how you field them.

TaddleMunkey
23-07-2015, 22:43
DA Were on my consideration list. I have not reaf the new codex but I heard it is quite good. Do they still have the option to give a 4++ save to a blob or Ogryns? I think it was Azrael....

I want something fast that can hit hard while taking of pressure on my guards
Well they are fast and they hit pretty hard especially if you bring black knights. Run a land speeder squadron with a darkshroud with em to give em all 2+ rerolling cover and it's a beautiful thing you've made. Plus they will be way ahead of your guard so the focus would definitely be on them. Beware of the tau marker lights other than that anti cover shooting with 3AP isn't often brought.

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TremendousZ
24-07-2015, 02:21
it sounds to me like you have some great advise here. you do not need to change your armies, just how you field them.

Bingo! Your armies will become more competitive with new rules so just wait your turn. Also some armies perform better at different point levels. So you can add to you existing armies ala bikes/raptors/ more lemans?

If you must buy models get some deamons. You already have CSM and IG, so deamons would round out a full chaos force for Apoc. If you dont want to repaint you IG get a bunch of cultists and use them in place of the troops for IG. U can always magnetize some chains and skulls on your vehicles to make them Chaos.

You could pick up a Dark Vengeance box. You get awesome highly detailed chaos marines, and a small force of DA to paint and use as a detachment. =)