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The bearded one
21-07-2015, 00:03
I know we're all rather sour about the Age of Sigmar stuff and the warhammer world being ripped apart by a chaos rift and all that, but while I'm a bit jaded on that front I really enjoyed the story of the end times for the most part.

There are a lot of really cool, iconic moments within the End Times that - had the warhammer world setting continued to be supported by GW, rather than left to fade from memory as is likely to happen now (new generations of players won't have an oppertunity to get to know its setting) - would very likely have ended up being iconic parts of warhammer lore. You know, the kind of things you'd have seen mentioned again and again in every new armybook, and seen new variations of in artwork across the years (if the setting was still supported, anyway). The kinds of moments that'd be shining in the lore alongside the story of Nagash's initial rise to power, alongside Vlad's demise on a stake and Mannfred's apparent death at Hell Fenn, alongside Sigmar saving Kurgan Ironbeard and fighting at Black Fire Pass, Caledor dragontamer establishing the vortex, Malekith burning in the flames, and the cavalry charging over the 'hill of heroes' at the siege of Kislev to aid Magnus the Pious' army.

I hope you guys catch my drift with what I mean with 'iconic moments'.

So I was wondering what were you guys' favorite moments in the story? Just setting aside all the bitterness over the events and consequences surrounding the story's release.


Some favorites of my own;
- Nagash's one-liners ("Die well")
- Settra's one-liners ("Settra does not kneel. SETTRA RULES!")
- Ungrim Ironfist covering the retreat from Averheim
- The council of the incarnates at Athel Loren
- Nagash backstabbing Mannfred by handing him over as a gesture of good faith
- Mannfred ruining everything by literal backstabbing
- The final moments of the story, where Tyrion and Alarielle stand before the expanding rift, hands clasped, resigned at the coming end. The.. 'serenity' of that particular piece of art really drove home for me that it was truly done.

Groza
21-07-2015, 00:06
I've always been one of the ET bashers but Korhil's fate gives me the chills to this day for some reason.

Gobskrag 'Eadbasha
21-07-2015, 00:09
Two words: Settra. Rules.

The bearded one
21-07-2015, 00:12
The end of ET: Nagash made me feel really sad for Settra. It was an oddly moving ending.

Turgol
21-07-2015, 00:33
Louen Leoncoeur duel with Ku'Gath, Specially the novel version. Also the novel version of Karl Franz's resurrection; it is quite epically portrayed as the Empire and its history standing against Chaos. By looking at Karl Franz, the spectator can see not only him, but also a barbarian bearded warrior (Sigmar) and a more noble and pious one (Magnus), saying: "We are the Empire".

Both Malekith v. Tyrion duels are quite epic as well. Oh, and Malekith's trick to gain Grimgor's alliance was also well achieved.

vlad78
21-07-2015, 00:36
The end of ET: Nagash made me feel really sad for Settra. It was an oddly moving ending.

Yep. the only time really worth anything. Settra line is ace. AND at the time we could hope GW would make the old world advance, not destroy it for IP reasons.

I have no other favourite moment.

Malagor
21-07-2015, 00:36
Nagash and Settra.
And Skarsnik losing Gobbla, the saddest moment.

ewar
21-07-2015, 01:01
Nagash and Settra for me too - it was so nice to read something which just was 'so Warhammer' if you get what I mean?

The futility of Settra's resistance, his monstrous pride and inability to know when he was truly beaten. Just loved it.

I also really like how Teclis was portrayed during the various books, mostly Khaine and Archaon. What a complete s**tbag, he turned out to be the Jack Bauer of the Old World - going to do what's got to be done and screw the innocents pulped en route.

Leogun_91
21-07-2015, 15:54
I really liked Vlad's death (the final one). His sacrifice felt very fitting.
I enjoyed the fall of Karak-Eight-Peaks in ET:Tranquol, it allowed the dwarfs to fight and die with dignity (I can not say the same for the fall of Karak-Kadrin or the off-screen destructions).
Louen Leounceur duelling Ku'gath gave a feeling of just how blessed a grail knight can truly be and it was nice to see Bretonnia get some badass moments in the books.
Alith Anar in ET:Khaine, both him turning down and shooting down the two extremely powerful god-avatars but also him threatening Malekith to behave or he'll do it again.

Honourable Mentions:
The wall of Khemri breaking off and turning out to be all constructs, too small a part of a battle I didn't enjoy enough to make the list but an extremely cool small part.
Grimgor almost beating Malekith....satisfying but not enough to make the list.
Sigmar's fistfight with Archaon, it was cool but in a silly over the top way and it needs to be less silly to be truly iconic.
Mannfred's duels in the first book (culminating in that with Eltharion). Liked the descriptions and weaknesses of them.
Queek wondering who was trying to backstab him the entire Thanquol book.

Spiney Norman
21-07-2015, 16:07
I think it was the bit a fraction of a second before the Nagash book came out, my second favourite part was the bit a fraction of a second before the Khaine book came out and blended three of the game's most characterful armies into one characterless homogenised soup.

After reading that fluff abomination I totally lost interest.

Denny
21-07-2015, 16:47
And Skarsnik losing Gobbla, the saddest moment.

. . . Still too soon to talk about it . . . :cries:

HereComesTomorrow
21-07-2015, 17:13
Skarsnik losing Gobbla and Nagash's resurrection.

I also liked the giant skaven moon laser. Thats about it really.

Its almost funny how quickly everything fell apart after Nagash. Honestly, now that I consider it, the culmination of the End Times should basically have been a remix of the books, ending with Nagash's ressurection.

Book 1: Skaven blow up the moon which falls on Lustria. The majority of the skaven mobilize to Lustria to scavange, leaving their wars with the Dwarfs behind. Lizardmen move to space, Slann leaving and moon exploding makes the winds of magic go nuts.
Book 2: Malekith successfully takes over Ulthuan, portal gets wrecked. Ulthuan becomes home of the Dark Elves but under constant seige from Daemons, High Elves become more nomadic.
Book 3: Chaos wrecks a big chunk of the Empire. Refugees head to Ind, Cathay, Bretonnia, populate abandoned Dwarf holds etc
Book 4: Grimgor leads a Waaagh! on the Ogre tribes. The war leaving the Badlands and mountain routes much safer than before.
Book 5: Mannfred takes advantage of the chaos to resurrect Nagash.

This was all off the top of my head and seems like it would result in some interesting changes to existing armies while preserving the Old World. Though its fairlly obvious AoS was nothing but a reason to change some names for copyright reasons.

taurus-marstein
22-07-2015, 15:54
I really liked how much "picking up and throwing" there was, like how Durthu chucks Tyrion super far haha.

Also, I think the whole ET would have been fine if Mannfred didn't ruin everything in the end. If they had stopped the rift gate thing, then you could have just made a post-apocalyptic Old world be the new setting.

Ograr
22-07-2015, 18:30
The whole of the Nagash book, especially reading the first part where Mazdimundi wakes up and declares that the plan has failed. It all felt so epic, immediately.
Despite being a big fan of Queek, his brave charge on High King Thorgrim ending up with some pointless attacks on the throne of power, immediately followed by being throttled and thrown aside like a ragdoll felt good after the carnage the Skaven had wrecked.
The daemon's siege of Athel Loren in Archaon, where each of the incarnates are struggling to hold their lines, except Nagash, who blasts a dozen bloodletters with his left hand, while grabbing a bloodthirster by the head and making it explode with the other.
In the novel of Archaon, Settra returning in the final battle, revealing to Nagash that the Chaos Gods had revived him if he swore to destroy Nagash. Then he promptly turned on Chaos because Settra does not follow, Settra RULES.

Mixed love/hate. At the end, where Archaon's been thrown in the pit and the incarnates are trying to contain the damage to stop the world from being destroyed, Mannfred appearing and *********** it all up. I was sitting there, quietly reading, slightly hopeful that things were going to turn out ok (having avoided all Warhammer fora for a month for no spoilers). Things were looking up and then boom, sword in the back for petty reasons. I literally yelled out "OH FOR ****S SAKE MANNFRED", startling my girlfriend who was quietly reading next to me. Best moment because I don't recall every yelling at a book before (No I haven't read A Song of Ice and Fire) and worst because...well goddamnit Mannfred!

Tokamak
22-07-2015, 18:36
Thanquol blowing up the moon and contacting the Eldar.


Skarsnik losing Gobbla and Nagash's resurrection.

I also liked the giant skaven moon laser. Thats about it really.

Its almost funny how quickly everything fell apart after Nagash. Honestly, now that I consider it, the culmination of the End Times should basically have been a remix of the books, ending with Nagash's ressurection.

Book 1: Skaven blow up the moon which falls on Lustria. The majority of the skaven mobilize to Lustria to scavange, leaving their wars with the Dwarfs behind. Lizardmen move to space, Slann leaving and moon exploding makes the winds of magic go nuts.
Book 2: Malekith successfully takes over Ulthuan, portal gets wrecked. Ulthuan becomes home of the Dark Elves but under constant seige from Daemons, High Elves become more nomadic.
Book 3: Chaos wrecks a big chunk of the Empire. Refugees head to Ind, Cathay, Bretonnia, populate abandoned Dwarf holds etc
Book 4: Grimgor leads a Waaagh! on the Ogre tribes. The war leaving the Badlands and mountain routes much safer than before.
Book 5: Mannfred takes advantage of the chaos to resurrect Nagash.

This was all off the top of my head and seems like it would result in some interesting changes to existing armies while preserving the Old World. Though its fairlly obvious AoS was nothing but a reason to change some names for copyright reasons.

Yeah I like that.

Then again, End Times really is something magnificent as a whole. I'm still working on making a few armies completely campaign-kosher. It's absolutely criminal GW only made it last one year.

Groza
22-07-2015, 18:44
Hilarious ET summary (http://i.imgur.com/BsYN6vB.jpg)

InstantKarma
22-07-2015, 19:52
I only own the hardback of ET: Nagash, and yes, Settra stole the book.

I've been considering trying to pick up softbacks of the others, just to have a record of the End Times, so I won't forget what was before moving on.

The bearded one
22-07-2015, 19:56
Then again, End Times really is something magnificent as a whole. I'm still working on making a few armies completely campaign-kosher. It's absolutely criminal GW only made it last one year.

yeah we sped through it with such intense speed I didn't have any time at all to actually finish reading any of the books before the next had arrived. I still haven't read all of it (though I did skim everything and read the important bits of course) No time to really savour the moment - or finished an ET themed army.

ShruikhanTK
22-07-2015, 20:18
Yep. the only time really worth anything. Settra line is ace. AND at the time we could hope GW would make the old world advance, not destroy it for IP reasons.

I have no other favourite moment.

I assume you guys meant he novel version? I didn't read it, can you please share it with me somewhere?

My favorite conmversation is the one Vlad gives to Mannfred before the world ended, I really thought mannfred was going to do something epic after that but he turned out to be old world's biggest douche.

:Edit: seriously, Mannfred alone destroyed 9th editition, meet Warhammers most hated character

Daniel36
22-07-2015, 20:32
The entirety of Nagash! Awesome!! Oh, and the prequel Sigmar's Blood was pretty sweet too! Does that one count?
I am still working through Thanquol. I stopped reading for no reason. Should get back to it.

Tokamak
22-07-2015, 20:45
yeah we sped through it with such intense speed I didn't have any time at all to actually finish reading any of the books before the next had arrived. I still haven't read all of it (though I did skim everything and read the important bits of course) No time to really savour the moment - or finished an ET themed army.

In a way, with all the fervour GW brought about ET i sort of thought it was supposed to be the 9th edition. Armies got updated (like the Beastmen receiving a long overdue correction), the centrepiece miniatures you could base a whole new army around. The WD making suggestions on how to theme particular formations to make them even more historically accurate.

I honestly thought "wow, GW is injecting actual campaign narratives into the game". That's what I love about the hobby. Armies with true thought put into them, each one being a tiny micro-cosm by itself. With unique characters, with background lore, not just a random story for random units but actual underlying reasons why particular units are present and why they look a certain way. That's what makes any game really good, whether you're winning or getting your ass handed to you. You see a story develop on the battlefield.

And ET hit the sweet spot for that. The whole story is like a sponge. Like there's structure and a plot but there's also an enormous amount of holes for the players to fill. Fighting actual described battles is nearly impossible unless you have a few players coincidentally having armies meeting the exact requirements. So instead players will have to agree beforehand to start working on certain formations.

That takes time. Reading the books took enough time by itself but actually building the stuff you needed to -truly- play End Times is what will take years if you're a normal person.

And maybe it's ALREADY nostalgia talking. Maybe I wouldn't have given ET as much attention if it weren't for AoS, but I'm glad I did.

Sothron
22-07-2015, 21:16
Not one jot of it. It was all badly written slap dash comedy masquerading as fiction.

Tokamak
22-07-2015, 21:18
Compared to 40k maybe. But compared to WFB it was precisely on beat.

The bearded one
22-07-2015, 22:02
The story and writing started to creak a bit a few books in, but I thought ET:Nagash was exceptionally well written. It wouldn't surprise me if they had some actual professional writers helping with that one. Book 1 was on par with Forgeworld's quality at least. The final page with Settra was very melancholic and saddening. And it was about a skeletal character in the desert! A character I'd previously always found about as interesting as dry cardboard!

I also loved most of the novel'esque textboxes that elaborated on specific events from the main word-of-god text, with conversations and thoughts and the like.

Ayin
22-07-2015, 22:08
I've wondered if Nagash really was better written or, as we went on and read each new ET book, we just became more aware of the issues that they had and their shortcomings.

Daniel36
22-07-2015, 22:15
I will tell you this. Many people who invested in the End Times books were extremely pissed off that GW basically invalidated them a couple months later.
I was having regrets at first because I spent well over 300 euros on BOOKS! For a game that I don't even like playing all that much (though love for its background material).

I absolutely love playing AoS, I find it such fun! I never have to look at the 8th ed. rules ever again, yet now, after the invalidation of the rules in the End Times, I am no longer regretful for having bought them, because now I have a huge tome of background information on epic battles that I might feel like recreating using the AoS rules. Yes, the amount of money it cost was way too much, but so is the money spent on an Empire Spearmen. It is an expensive hobby.

Long live the End Times!!

Sexiest_hero
22-07-2015, 22:30
No love for my man Arkhan the Black. Starting a rebellion in Britonnia, just to see how bad the Rebel Leader could fail. Pretty much Snatching power from Manfred in his very castle. WHILE being a tragic character. The undead were the stars of the End times.

Shifte
22-07-2015, 22:33
Vlad von Carstein was the MAN.

Sexiest_hero
22-07-2015, 22:38
His banter with the Glotts were great. His banter with Sigmar about being the last elector count and next in line to be emperor was great as well. I hated Vlad for so many years. Who knew he was such a fun guy.

The bearded one
22-07-2015, 22:39
Oh yes, the undead characters and storylines stole the show most of the time. Nagash was always awesome all the time, Arkhan is one of my favorite characters in the lore - so much character and charisma for a bleached skeleton! - Mannfred was being the dramatic little backstabber we know him as, Settra went from a cardboard character to being a great read. Vlad is a gentleman.

Sexiest_hero
23-07-2015, 08:30
Settra does not talk in first person, Settra IS FIRST PERSON!

Groza
23-07-2015, 14:09
Settra is best person.

ShruikhanTK
23-07-2015, 15:06
So it wasn't because I already played Tomb Kings the undead really were that awesome. Now can someone give me a run down of that Settra Nagash meeting? I don't have the novel!

HereComesTomorrow
23-07-2015, 16:31
So it wasn't because I already played Tomb Kings the undead really were that awesome. Now can someone give me a run down of that Settra Nagash meeting? I don't have the novel!

I'll summerise their second meeting:

*Nagash killing Bloodthirsters like it ain't nothing*
*Settra teleports in*
*Settra winks and gives Nagash two thumbs up*
*Settra leaps away to fight more stuff and is never heard of again*

It was so dumb and anticlimactic.

AkalaSpeaksFact
23-07-2015, 18:19
Death master snikch taking thorgrims head. Nuff said.


"I am the power of death incarnate. I am the swords edge; I hungrily cut the flesh and drink deep of the bloody well beneath. Give me your body, and I promise you glory, I promise you vengeance and I promise you immortality - if you will only let me..."

-Antwyr, the sword god

Sexiest_hero
23-07-2015, 20:49
I think they wanted to do more with Settra after book one was written but ran out of time/budget. You can see the quality of the books start to slip and you get towards the end.

ewar
23-07-2015, 22:17
Not sure I agree with that - I thought Archaon was better than Thanquol. If I had to rank them by quality it would be:

1 Nagash
2 Khaine
3 Archaon
4 Thanquol
5 Glottkin

I know some people didn't like Khaine, but honestly I really, really enjoyed it. I think it was a nice touch flipping the roles of Tyrion and Malekith, I liked that Teclis turned out to be the biggest ********* in the Old World (we all knew it already!) and that it wasn't just a black and white, evil elves lose storyline.

Tokamak
23-07-2015, 22:42
I love Khaine. I was worried about the 'elves join together' rumour, afraid that they were all going to unite, but it's the exact opposite. Splintering into further sub-factions is brilliant from both storytelling and army building perspective.

You can now make an elf force with a 'bright' colour scheme and with a 'dark' colour scheme, giving a completely different take on the miniatures.


The story and writing started to creak a bit a few books in, but I thought ET:Nagash was exceptionally well written. It wouldn't surprise me if they had some actual professional writers helping with that one. Book 1 was on par with Forgeworld's quality at least. The final page with Settra was very melancholic and saddening. And it was about a skeletal character in the desert! A character I'd previously always found about as interesting as dry cardboard!

I also loved most of the novel'esque textboxes that elaborated on specific events from the main word-of-god text, with conversations and thoughts and the like.

Oh the writing style isn't great at all. It's actually very dry 'retelling' of what went on. Like a history book. But that's fine, if they went for a more compelling read then there wouldn't be much left for the players to fill.

The bearded one
23-07-2015, 22:59
Oh the writing style isn't great at all. It's actually very dry 'retelling' of what went on. Like a history book. But that's fine, if they went for a more compelling read then there wouldn't be much left for the players to fill.

The main body of the text wasn't much different from the style of armybook texts - but in my opinion the textboxes added a lot of flavour and cinematic vibe. I thought a lot of the dialogue was rather good, which surprised me.

HereComesTomorrow
24-07-2015, 06:56
I love Khaine. I was worried about the 'elves join together' rumour, afraid that they were all going to unite, but it's the exact opposite. Splintering into further sub-factions is brilliant from both storytelling and army building perspective.

You can now make an elf force with a 'bright' colour scheme and with a 'dark' colour scheme, giving a completely different take on the miniatures.

Its just a shame we'll never get to see what comes of that.
Its very odd thinking back on End Times and remembering trying to theorise where the Old World would stand once it was over.

Those were more innocent times.

Jolnir
30-07-2015, 05:03
Louen Leoncouer getting one final heroic moment and saving the temple from Ku'gath was my favorite moment by far. I just wish the Brets were more evident in the very end.

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Buddy Bear
30-07-2015, 06:30
The resurrection of Nagash was great.

Urgat
30-07-2015, 06:48
Neferata almost owned by a completely unknown goblin ? :p

Buddy Bear
30-07-2015, 08:43
Vlad was fantastic throughout as well. He could easily be labeled the MVP of the whole series.

Kherith
30-07-2015, 08:44
It was in the Gav Thorpe novel rather than Khaine but the moment Malekith stands in front of the flame of Asuryan and is confronted with the truth that he failed the test first tome round, remembers the pain and walks in anyway was great for me.

I love Gav Thorpe's interpretation of Malekith in both the time of legends and curse of Khaine, where he's so much more than the cartoon villain hes often painted as in background fluff.

Griefbringer
30-07-2015, 10:18
I haven't read any of the EoT books so far, but my FLGS most likely has some still in stock. Considering how much people are talking about the Nagash book, maybe I should check if they happen to have that.

Not that I am likely to ever admit that any of the events described in those books actually happened...

The bearded one
30-07-2015, 20:22
I haven't read any of the EoT books so far, but my FLGS most likely has some still in stock. Considering how much people are talking about the Nagash book, maybe I should check if they happen to have that.

Not that I am likely to ever admit that any of the events described in those books actually happened...

Book 1 Nagash is widely received quite positively - despite general dislike for the overarching concept of the End Times - and the events within this book do not completely destroy the established setting yet, apart from the shake-up of Nagash's resurrection and his dealings with the tomb kings. It wouldn't have been all that bad had they simply stopped at the end of book 1 and put that as the new end of the timeline :p Except Tomb Kings would be miffed - but fate has never been very kind to them.

Griefbringer
30-07-2015, 20:56
Thanks for the heads up, I will be heading to the FLGS on Saturday to check if they have a copy of Nagash.

I am not too concerned about the tomb kings, since they tend to have suffered pretty tragically in the past. Though based on what I have heard, Settra does not kneel!

Ludaman
30-07-2015, 21:08
Louen Leoncouer getting one final heroic moment and saving the temple from Ku'gath was my favorite moment by far. I just wish the Brets were more evident in the very end.

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This: the entire King Louen storyline from "The Fall of Altdorf" fluff-book was by far my favorite part of the end-times. It inspired the heck out of me to finish my perfect Brett army (still in progress). In the fluff book he got to die a much more noble death as well, no getting his head sawed off by that idiot Festus, just a nice-classy impaling.

popisdead
30-07-2015, 21:11
The drops like Dragio and the Eldar communicator proving it's the same universe.

The bearded one
30-07-2015, 22:12
thanks for the heads up, i will be heading to the flgs on saturday to check if they have a copy of nagash.

I am not too concerned about the tomb kings, since they tend to have suffered pretty tragically in the past. Though based on what i have heard, settra does not kneel!

Settra does not serve! Settra rules!