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Grudgie
26-07-2015, 06:59
Reading the new rules on shooting, there is no restriction on shooting an enemy unit locked in combat. The only requirements are that the unit is in range and is visible.

Am I overlooking something or did missle troops just become awsome?

jaceimba
26-07-2015, 07:00
They are awesome.

thesoundofmusica
26-07-2015, 08:33
They are awesome.

They are pretty awesome.

Fast units are needed to counter shooting.

theunwantedbeing
26-07-2015, 11:43
Reading the new rules on shooting, there is no restriction on shooting an enemy unit locked in combat.

Unit's can't get locked in combat.

mhsellwood
27-07-2015, 01:55
Unit's can't get locked in combat.

Indeed. As veterans we need to be careful about assuming Age of Sigmar is Warhammer 9th and interpolating rules based on our experience.

Re. shooting into combat. I have found that insisting fully on the 'visible' aspect is a big help - I have been unable to fire into combats because line of sight has been blocked by my models, or poor targets screening much better targets. Overall shooting has improved and also removed some of the frustrating situations from prior editions like a 50 strong unit of skaven slaves is in close combat so shooting units are forced to suck their thumbs despite having a veritable wall of skaven to shoot into.

Necronartum
27-07-2015, 11:06
Not only can they shoot into a combat but also in/out of combat.

It seems perfectly legitimate that those Repeater Bolt Throwers can can continue to fire at any units in combat with it, or any unit it indeed chooses.

TheKingInYellow
27-07-2015, 15:29
Not only can they shoot into a combat but also in/out of combat.

It seems perfectly legitimate that those Repeater Bolt Throwers can can continue to fire at any units in combat with it, or any unit it indeed chooses.

Yeah I had a game where my two bolt throwers shot the enemy general to death in the middle of a combat. It's just nonsensical.

Bede19025
27-07-2015, 18:28
Yeah I had a game where my two bolt throwers shot the enemy general to death in the middle of a combat. It's just nonsensical.

You mean it's nonsensical because you can't hide your general from shooting by having him be within 3" of the enemy? Why is that nonsensical?

Maybe they wanted to make heros less powerful. One way is to make them easier to target.

You do know that you can hide your general from shooting by putting him behind terrain that blocks LOS or behind units that would block LOS to him,right?

Greyfire
27-07-2015, 19:33
You mean it's nonsensical because you can't hide your general from shooting by having him be within 3" of the enemy? Why is that nonsensical?

Mostly because it's hard to imagine anyone shooting into the middle of combat where there's a chance to hit an ally. Mostly.

It hadn't occurred to me until now that GW has now tried all three options for shooting and combat in different editions: no shooting at all, even distribution of hits between units, and now restriction.

Bede19025
27-07-2015, 20:15
Mostly because it's hard to imagine anyone shooting into the middle of combat where there's a chance to hit an ally. Mostly.

It hadn't occurred to me until now that GW has now tried all three options for shooting and combat in different editions: no shooting at all, even distribution of hits between units, and now restriction.

AoS is a game of fantastical combat with beings that do fanstastical things. It's not a simulation or even a reflection of reality.

If you can imagine a guy with wings flying around hitting people with a warhammer, it's not really that much of a stretch to imagine someone firing a missile weapon at a target in a crowd of friendlies.

If you don't like a rule because of its affect on the game, that makes perfect sense. But don't you find it ironic complaining in essence, that a rule in an over the top fantasy game is "unrealistic"?

mhsellwood
28-07-2015, 01:06
Yeah I had a game where my two bolt throwers shot the enemy general to death in the middle of a combat. It's just nonsensical.

Was the general mounted while everybody else was on foot? If everybody was around the same size was the general standing apart from everybody else? In a proper swirling combat individual models that are around the same size as everybody else should be very difficult to see, and if they can't be seen they can't be shot.

Remember that although the rules don't have Look Out Sir there is also nothing preventing models being bubble wrapped within a unit which should block line of sight and prevent characters being shot.

Finally in terms of nonsense, I play Dwarves. I frequently had in 8th edition situations where dragon riding characters or big monsters attacked my units, were clearly visible to my shooting units but could not be attacked. For example an Elf Lord in the front of a unit that was 5 wide and a cannon placed for a perfect flank shot with no risk to my own unit - can't be shot. Is that sensible and logical?

TheKingInYellow
28-07-2015, 02:00
Yeah he was a Tzeentch Lord on Disc.

Grudgie
28-07-2015, 07:06
Also, does this mean missile troops have to be spread out in one rank to have line of sight? That would balance things out a little better. A long line of 20 troops would be awkward.

Just like the good ole 6th edition days.

mhsellwood
28-07-2015, 07:41
Yeah he was a Tzeentch Lord on Disc.

Fair enough. Your opponent could have screened him with knights, or a burning chariot, or a monster, or whatever. Him not taking steps to prevent bad things happening is no evidence that the rules are bad or nonsensical.

To be fair, I personally think the scenario described makes sense - an arrogant Chaos Lord flying on his daemonic pet well above a mere mortal's reach laughing at them all, then being picked out by some eagle eyed war machine crew members and turned into a pin cushion.

Bede19025
28-07-2015, 13:30
Also, does this mean missile troops have to be spread out in one rank to have line of sight? That would balance things out a little better. A long line of 20 troops would be awkward.

Just like the good ole 6th edition days.

No. Models in the same unit don't block LOS.

TheKingInYellow
28-07-2015, 13:40
Fair enough. Your opponent could have screened him with knights, or a burning chariot, or a monster, or whatever. Him not taking steps to prevent bad things happening is no evidence that the rules are bad or nonsensical.

To be fair, I personally think the scenario described makes sense - an arrogant Chaos Lord flying on his daemonic pet well above a mere mortal's reach laughing at them all, then being picked out by some eagle eyed war machine crew members and turned into a pin cushion.

Did you seriously just defend a game mechanic that caused one player to lose without actually playing the game because it was cinematic?

How is that fun for anyone?

thesoundofmusica
28-07-2015, 19:49
Did you seriously just defend a game mechanic that caused one player to lose without actually playing the game because it was cinematic?

How is that fun for anyone?

Obviously not your kind of fun :)
But you were playing assassinate then?

TheKingInYellow
28-07-2015, 20:47
My opponent selected it, I didn't really have a choice.

thesoundofmusica
28-07-2015, 21:04
I dont get it. He picked assassinate, but you won when you shot his chaos lord? Doesnt really make sense but I guess its the games fault somehow? ;)

TheKingInYellow
28-07-2015, 21:30
And... I have my threads mixed up which explains the confusion. I had one game where I sniped the opposing general out of combat with bolt throwers.

I had another game, which I was discussing in other threads, where I lost in turn one before even moving when my general was killed by a Cygor and I lost due to assassination sudden victory.

I got the two games, and two threads, mixed up. Man, my apologies.

thesoundofmusica
28-07-2015, 21:36
No worries.
I have almost had this happen to me too. Now I try to deploy a character and/or a unit safely if I suspect my opponent is going for sudden death. I think it's one of those things that will come naturally as we play more games and see what situations might arise.

Edit: Cygor! Awesome, it's on my wishlist.

TheKingInYellow
28-07-2015, 21:37
Yeah in that game I wasn't even thinking about it, I only had 17 models out.