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Lordcypress
26-07-2015, 15:12
Nagash

Tomb Prince
Great Weapon, Glittering Scales

Necrotect
Armour of Silvered Steel.

68 x Skeletons
Full Command, Flaming Banner

68 x Skeleton Warriors
Full Command

38 x Grave Guard (Tomb Prince and Necrotect go here to give the unit Hatred and Weapon Skill 5)
Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of the Barrows

Warsphinx
Fiery Roar, Poison Stinger

Warsphinx
Fiery Roar, Poison Stinger

Total: 3000pts

Game Plan: This list is for fairly large game next Friday. We have 3 Undead Armies each 3000pts for a total of 9000pts vs. 3000pts worth of Empire, 3000pts of Lizardmen and another 3000pts of Lizardmen. I've never fielded Nagash yet. Had the model sitting in his box ever since End Times started. Any advice on how to use him would be great. Like what is the best spell selection for him? I'm currently leaning toward this selection; Invocation of Nehek from Lore of Vampires, all 7 Spells from Lore of Undead and 1 spell from Lore of Death.

Ahnarras
26-07-2015, 16:18
Well, i suppose that's pretty much as nasty as you can get. I would advise to switch out the sphinx to put 4 catapult, as the only real threat to nagash are the empire canon, and you can always summon the sphinx.
For spell selection, i would take the signature spell of Light, to burn a ethereal slann. Sign of death and vamp are good. You will probably not need so many spell from Undead, maybe invest one or two more in order to have the reroll to wound or the aging curse.

TP seems a bit unprotected too, with only a 6+ AS and no save he may be dead before your unit is able to strike. A 4+/4++ would be better for him (he will loose the GW, but with 38 WS5/S5 with reroll behind him, he doesn't need that).

I would also advise to make sure everyone of your opponent do know how ugly your list is. Nothing worse for a good day of battle to bring a over the top list like that and realise everyone is here with fluffy and nice list.
Also, make sure your ally do know you are bringing Nagash. One of them may take a lvl 4 in case the worst happen to the big guy, but otherwise Nagash will eat all power dice. No need for other wizard with him.

Lordcypress
28-07-2015, 00:15
Thanks for the reply Ahnarras,

I play in fairly power gamey group. My group has been begging for me to bring out Nagash for a long time. I agree with you about the lack of protection on the Prince. Do you think I could find the points by removing poison from my Warsphinx's? I do want to bring two of them too. One is actually going to park itself right in front of Nagash. Cannonball absorber!!

Ayin
28-07-2015, 05:22
If you don't mind adding some specifics, how is your game doing magic? 2D6/player, or shared, or End Times style?

Ahnarras
28-07-2015, 08:46
I'm not sure about the poison. The obvious answer is : sphinx don't need poison, they are here to stomp big unit of light infantry, if you need poison you are not against your primary target therefore you made a mistake and should have bring a necrosphinx.
But we all know that that's only theory, in a real battle you are not always against your choice opponent and poison do allow the sphinx to hurt monster too.
So if you really want to take the sphinx, keeping the poison is not a bad idea. Still i'm not sure how you want to make them into a canonball magnet : you have too little unit, your opponent just have to deploy his warmachine last to find somewhere where he could pass. He can also just target Nagash and pray to hit with the first dice and not with the bounce (and, Nagash being on a 150*100 if i recall correctly, he will have a good chance to do so).

I tried to find point in your skellies, but you may have a mistake : what kind of equipment do your skellies have? You don't seems to have the 25% in Core requirement :/

And finally, your answer worry me for the life of your prince : if your group * is * power gamey, a prince won't survive long with that. He really need more.
I would even advise to plan on magic : Vanhel's do more or less what a prince can do, and i don't know much about lore of undeath, but you may be able to summon a prince/king with some stuff.
Another tactic TK are using is to have multiple prince with more or less nothing to equip them : you hope that one will still live when it's your turn to strike.

Last, i didn't think about it before, but you are against low I army : maybe the spell of light could be good? Speed of battle or Birona would hurt a lot !

Ps : No casket. It's so obvious why every undead list should have one that i didn't even realise you are going without one.
You can't take Nagash and not a casket. I'm pretty sure there are laws against that.

Edit : what rules are you using for magic item? Are your opponent allow one scroll, or up to three? Same question for the lizardmen cube.
They may have tricked you here : 3 scroll + 2 cube means that Nagash is a waste of 1000pt.

ewar
28-07-2015, 21:45
I played a 5 game End Times tourney with Nagash in May and it was a complete blast. As crazy as this sounds, he's actually not as broken as some people make out. He will still die in close combat - yes he is T7 but seriously think long and hard before throwing him into a fight.

Other stuff to avoid (apart from cannonballs) are test or die spells. If you get hit with Final Trans/Dwellers every turn there is a decent chance he'll die. I would swap the Warsphinxes for a pair of Necrosphinxes - the 12" march bubble means you get T8 beasties with a 20" march, plus desert wind means they can move 20" again. Suddenly Tomb Kings are fast!

For spell selection I would go:
5 Undeath
Invocation
3 Death (you want purple sun with 6000 points of LM in front of you! Trust me, they're my other main army, and Naggy casts it on 3 dice). You also HAVE to take a hierotitan to boost nagash's casting with D3 and a Casket for the D3 PD. Otherwise a couple of Slann will shut him down with scrolls and becalming.

Finally, beware light council Banishment, it makes a complete mess of nagash. I've lost him a few times to this (3D6 S9 hits re rolling wards... goodbye lord of the underworld)

Lordcypress
29-07-2015, 02:43
Again thanks for the replies guys,

Ayin,

We are playing a shared pool of power dice. Each player (so 3) roll 2D6 and channel attempts. We can give all the dice to one player if we want. But we generally just spread it out fairly even. Most likely though I could see Nagash being thrown 4-5 dice his way though LOL.

Ahnarras,

-My core is ok. I have 750pts which is 25%. Don't forget I gave them Full Command and one unit has the Flaming Banner. They should be 5pts each (Sword and Shield) + 30pts for command.
-I do plan on trying to raise another Prince. That's kind of why I was thinking of taking so many Undead spells. The Lore has 3 summon spells in it and they all look fun.
-Are there any good spells in the Tomb Kings book that I should be considering? Lore of Light has been on my radar.
-One of my allies is bringing 2 Caskets.
-Never thought about what my opponents might bring for dispel scrolls. But I'm not overly concerned. If Nagash gets stopped I still have my allies to cast magic and my Grave Guard to have fun.

Ewar,

-Don't have access to any Necrosphinx. But those are really compelling points above the movement of these guys!!
-I know Nagash isn't indestructible, but I've never used him before. I have to at least give him a go. If I have to I will shield him with 2 Warsphinx.
-Good call on the Light Council. Will be watching how my opponents generate their spells before the game!

ewar
29-07-2015, 09:57
When I have run similar games, we divide the board into 3rds and rolled the winds by 'segment' rather than by player i.e. on a 12' board each 4' segment had 2d6 WoM. It helps to prevent bunching up the casters in one area of the board e.g. having 6 dice winds in one area for Nagash and supporting casters to just completely hammer the enemy, seemed to work quite well.

Also, one thing to consider, do you have any other core models you could use instead of the skeletons? I've found skellies to be one of the best targets for Ryze because:
- they get brought up 36" away, countering their slow movement
- a huge block brought right up in front of the enemy lines really messes with them
- your other core can be quite quick (horsemen, chariots etc though I am almost pure tomb king player)

So you deploy your quick units then raise the slow ones. I also like raising the more fragile units e.g. Necropolis Knights/Ushabti because it saves them 2 turns of being shot. Just remember that you can't raise a character into a unit, as it has to be 1" away from all other units. So if you're raising princes and vampires, do it the turn before you need them to join a unit.

Lordcypress
29-07-2015, 10:45
Quick question it states that summoned units don't award victory points. Does that mean I don't receive any victory points that summoned units kill either?

ewar
29-07-2015, 10:51
No it just means when they die they give away nothing. Can be brutal, just remember the guy raising them cost 1,000 points :D

Ahnarras
29-07-2015, 12:31
Ok, good for Core, i didn't think about the light armor.
I'm not sure you want spell from Nehekhara with Nagash. The movement spell is good but you will summon your unit where they already need to be. The 5+ ward is huge, but Nehek is good too and more reliable to have as it's the signature spell. Spell 3 & 5 are good too, but nothing that you must have (and i wouldn't take them because if you take Nagash, you want to invest a lot of point into the undead lore. After all, if you want to play Nehek spell, you can just take a hierophant at ~200-300pt.

Lordcypress
01-08-2015, 18:02
Well I played last night. It was awesome. Only one cannon on the battlefield. But......the Empire player took Carl Franz ascended!!! I dodged him until the last turn of the game all the while raising and resurrecting units. Brought up an entire unit of Blood Knights and a Warsphinx!! Sadly Carl killed Nagash, but it was a highly entertaining game. Thanks for all the input guys.