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Lost_Heretic
30-07-2015, 20:07
Rumors of Nottingham being turned away at US customs are indeed true. My co-host and press attendee @sandchigger confirmed with Forge World staff Charles Govia and Daniel Doyle.

The Games Workshop booth has no game demo or product. It's just people talking about Age of Sigmar. Nice miniature display, though. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/30/f4486e430fe0af580a0a005cfee5bab5.jpg

Marneus the Wonderpious
30-07-2015, 20:19
Rumors of Nottingham being turned away at US customs are indeed true. My co-host and press attendee @sandchigger confirmed with Forge World staff Charles Govia and Daniel Doyle.

The Games Workshop booth has no game demo or product. It's just people talking about Age of Sigmar. Nice miniature display, though. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/30/f4486e430fe0af580a0a005cfee5bab5.jpg

I can absolutely confirm this as a friend of mine was one of those staffers who had to endure US Customs for 8 hours before being deported back to the UK. It was because they had the wrong visa - they didn't have the one for required for selling items apparently. :rolleyes:

ebbwar
30-07-2015, 20:26
Well, it would of been going dangerously close to communicating with customers that could then be mis-construed as 'market research'. You know that thing Kirby is allergic to and would kill him if he came into contact with. :P

ColShaw
30-07-2015, 20:40
Wow. This just keeps getting better, doesn't it.

Inquisitor Kallus
30-07-2015, 21:05
Charles is with FW now? Blimey. Really nice guy. I wonder if theyre kicking themselves about it or if theyre not too worried.

paddyalexander
30-07-2015, 21:16
If they had any sense they'd care about how this makes them look to their peers & the wider gaming community at the largest table top gaming con in the world... but this is gw so probably not.

This does make them look like a bunch of rank amateurs especially when companies like Privateer Press, Mantic, FFG & Corvus Belli are there in force with prepublished itineraries, tournaments, demos, con exclusive minis, early access to upcoming releases, presentations of upcoming products, symposiums with community engagement and much more.

In amongst all of this is gwgPLC with a bunch of models anyone with a passing interest has seen already and what else?

Whirlwind
30-07-2015, 21:16
Given that the flights were going to be on the order of the best part of 1000 per person plus the additional costs for getting a rearranged flights back plus hotel cancellation costs then yes if I was the manager I'd be hopping mad. Really it's pretty incompetent after all it's not unusual to need Visa's for many parts of the world.

You can imagine the conversation now with the senior management. This is probably why they need a recruitment manager. Do you think Forgeworld staff are sniggering behind their backs though?

Herzlos
30-07-2015, 22:00
How did the Forge World guys get through but not the GW? Someone else arranging their VISAs?

I'm a bit surprised they didn't just need ESTA VISAs, but you'd expect them to be more on the ball than that (especially when many smaller companies from Nottingham made it through OK)

cracou2
30-07-2015, 22:05
Marneus... first post, first unsourced affirmation...

paddyalexander
31-07-2015, 00:13
How did the Forge World guys get through but not the GW? Someone else arranging their VISAs?

Probably, forge world have attended Adepticon for the last few years and would have known what to expect, they probably just assumed that the other side of the house weren't complete screw ups and would have checked what was necessary to do to work in the country they weere traveling to.

Everyone at the con should troll them by asking for a demo or asking about con exclusive minis/content.

Edit: Apparently they have a very minimalist presence, no signs or art on display. Just a table with one or two guys selling what looks like a very limited range of products.

75hastings69
31-07-2015, 02:42
Well done GW, I guess general incompetence starts at the top and filters down.

I travel all over the world with work, and have to get different kinds of visas for all sorts of weird and out there places, the information on what you require is readily available, I've not had any issues yet and that includes LOI Visas for Angola, and work visas to work off the cost of Borneo! To be denied entry to USA because of work permits for such a huge company speaks volumes. Although to be fair it looks like it would have been a pointless attendance anyway, looks like GW didn't hope to provide anything beyond saying "this is our new product age of sigmar - behold". Again well done GW.

lbecks
31-07-2015, 02:58
Cast correct Visa on 6+
Cast C&D letter on 1+

Losing Command
31-07-2015, 07:00
So they're just there with a booth to say "Look at our new game ! No sorry we can't let you try and play it, only look at it" ?

Buddy Bear
31-07-2015, 07:05
GW's capacity for plumbing new depths of incompetence is really quite breathtaking.

ebbwar
31-07-2015, 08:41
You can imagine the conversation now with the senior management. This is probably why they need a recruitment manager. Do you think Forgeworld staff are sniggering behind their backs though?

Sounds more like they need a Common Sense Manager tbh :P

Darnok
31-07-2015, 08:53
GW's capacity for plumbing new depths of incompetence is really quite breathtaking.

Couldn't have said it better. Really shows where "recruiting for attitude instead of ability" gets you...

Herzlos
31-07-2015, 09:41
According to Nafka, they were travelling on a tourists visa and someone let slip they were working. This is from a dedicated team travelling around conventions. This just keeps getting worse.


via another source today
Someone at head office messed up the visa application, rather than travelling on a Business Visitor Visa they travelled to the US on a Holiday Visa. Not only were they denied entry, they were immediately deported back to the the UK and will not be able to travel to the US for a while. If they can get a team together in time there will be US staff at Gencon drafted in as emergency cover instead of the dedicated team that are meant to be touring the conventions.

Deadhorse
31-07-2015, 09:54
So they're just there with a booth to say "Look at our new game ! No sorry we can't let you try and play it, only look at it" ?

I assume someone was told: "take some guys and go present AoS at Gamescon". This looks like the minimum thought and effort way of achieving such a goal. Put it in a glass cabinet and "answer questions" about it.

It must be weird for games workshop with their post-monopoly mentality to find themselves in a position of "small fish in a big pond", clumsy, tiny and years behind their competitors.

Rick_1138
31-07-2015, 09:59
These things happen and i can see how it happened, having travelled to the states with work a few times.

However when you look at Corvus Belli and what they are doing, then look at GW, you have to woner what GWs problem is.

They have a good product, they have a large presence, if they just opened up a bit, maybe an exclusive mini (which you buy, nothing wrong with having to pay for it) basically if GW became more like FW they would leap their sales figures overnight.

Its the feeling that GW thinks its above paying customers that sticks in many folks craw.

Its such an easy thing to rectify as well, that's why its such a shame.

Still, getting grilled by US customs for 8 hours i wouldn't wish on anyone.

75hastings69
31-07-2015, 10:03
.....getting grilled by US customs for 8 hours i wouldn't wish on anyone.

I on the other hand would quite happily wish it on anyone and everyone who had anything to do with destroying WFB to bring us AoS, quite happily.

Poncho160
31-07-2015, 10:07
I dont understand the different mentality of GW and FW. They are the same company!!!!

How can one half (FW) hold open days, attend cons, show off and talk about, drum up interest and create a buzz about their upcoming products, the other half (GW) seem incapable of even interacting with the public! It is crazy.

Take the new HH plastics, if FW had made them, they would have made a big fuss and dance about them, showing people how cool they were, showing people the kits painted in different Legion colour scheme and got everyone really excited about them. But because GW are releasing them, they lose all the build up advertising they could have had, because the only pics the paying public have had are a few fuzzy ones on the internet.

paddyalexander
31-07-2015, 10:43
According to Nafka, they were travelling on a tourists visa and someone let slip they were working. This is from a dedicated team travelling around conventions. This just keeps getting worse.


I on the other hand would quite happily wish it on anyone and everyone who had anything to do with destroying WFB to bring us AoS, quite happily.

Odds are the team that got caught in customs are people who had zero input into the the decisions of upper management in regards to the type of visas they were travelling on, yet alone anything to do with destroying WHFB. They would have gotten on the plane excited and enthusiastic to be attending Gencon and ready to positively promote their company.

If anything the majority of the people held for 8 odd hours, deported and temporarily banned from entering the country (drastically effecting their jobs as a travelling con promotion team) are the victims of gwgPLCs' incompetence.

And the sad thing is gwgPLC are now there with a plain stand trying to sell teir product at full retail while dozens of large webstore/indie stores are there in force with colourful vibrant retail areas carrying the same products (as well as products from other manufacturers) at hefty discounts or with con exclusive bundle deals. Anybody buying anything from that pathetic little lemonade stand is getting ripped off.

Buddy Bear
31-07-2015, 10:47
I think it might have to do with GW management taking a more hands off approach to FW versus GW proper. That would be a similar situation to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager when they were airing together. The first was producing well-scripted arcs and fantastic television, while the second was producing mediocre and painful to watch "entertainment." Coincidentally (or not), it was Voyager which had all the attention of the higher ups whereas DS9 was mostly ignored and left to its own devices. I think we might be looking at a similar situation here.


I on the other hand would quite happily wish it on anyone and everyone who had anything to do with destroying WFB to bring us AoS, quite happily.

It would be delicious irony if one of those Customs agents was a Warhammer Fantasy fan.

MiyamatoMusashi
31-07-2015, 11:16
It would be delicious irony if one of those Customs agents was a Warhammer Fantasy fan.

<Pulls on rubber glove> Now, let's see if we can find where all those ideas for AoS came from.

Blutrache
31-07-2015, 11:17
Thanks for the info OP! I am very interested in what GW's allegedly dedicated promotion of AoS really would result in. And how the reception of it was. But it seems they dropped the ball at Gencon then anyway...
Btw didn't I start a thread on this that got nuked...?
/Cheers

Malagor
31-07-2015, 12:33
I dont understand the different mentality of GW and FW. They are the same company!!!!

How can one half (FW) hold open days, attend cons, show off and talk about, drum up interest and create a buzz about their upcoming products, the other half (GW) seem incapable of even interacting with the public! It is crazy.

Take the new HH plastics, if FW had made them, they would have made a big fuss and dance about them, showing people how cool they were, showing people the kits painted in different Legion colour scheme and got everyone really excited about them. But because GW are releasing them, they lose all the build up advertising they could have had, because the only pics the paying public have had are a few fuzzy ones on the internet.
Not only that, FW would have shown them before they were up for pre-order, GW still deny that they exist or that they are even thinking about releasing 30k plastic.
I think we should be happy that GW gives FW the freedom that they have and that they will be allowed to continue to have this freedom to actually handle their part of the company in the right way.

As for this story.
So someone slipped up and mentioned that they were working and I don't know much about visas so any help here but are holiday visas cheaper then buisness visas?
Because if you are attending a con in a official manner for the company you work for then quite obviously you are working and not on vacation.
Why not simply get the right permits and be on your merry way rather then give them the wrong permits and then tell them to lie if anyone asks ?

Griefbringer
31-07-2015, 13:07
Btw didn't I start a thread on this that got nuked...?
/Cheers

You mean this one:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412173-GW-at-Gencon-Impressions

cracou2
31-07-2015, 13:10
is it a fact or just some rants?

Where is the source that tells us that something went wrong?

Herzlos
31-07-2015, 13:18
So someone slipped up and mentioned that they were working and I don't know much about visas so any help here but are holiday visas cheaper then buisness visas?
Correct, the ESTA waiver, which is all they need, costs $14 each.


Because if you are attending a con in a official manner for the company you work for then quite obviously you are working and not on vacation.
Why not simply get the right permits and be on your merry way rather then give them the wrong permits and then tell them to lie if anyone asks ?

Incompetence? Poor management?

paddyalexander
31-07-2015, 13:28
is it a fact or just some rants?

Where is the source that tells us that something went wrong?

At first there were just rumours, then we got confirmations from several sources and now we have several different photos from the con on several blogs showing the plain stand with a smattering of stock and a till.

heliodorus04
31-07-2015, 13:39
218035

Rumor is False. (This photo was sent to me by an attendee; I don't have any further info about GW at GenCon)

Herzlos
31-07-2015, 13:46
Are any of the people in that photo from outside the US?

That said, there's a lot of staff for such a tiny booth.

Griefbringer
31-07-2015, 13:56
218035
(This photo was sent to me by an attendee; I don't have any further info about GW at GenCon)

That is quite a big diorama they have in that box; notice that the figures are not on bases but directly attached to the terrain. Speaking of terrain, are some of the items on that diorama likely to be unreleased plastic terrain kits?

Inquisitor Kallus
31-07-2015, 14:00
Couldn't have said it better. Really shows where "recruiting for attitude instead of ability" gets you...

Indeed, I mean no one makes mistakes.....

Rick_1138
31-07-2015, 14:20
looking at the pics above, that looks like 2 or so staff members and a lot of stuff around them (if only AoS)

What part of this story is true, and what parts are growing arms and legs?

Seems a bit odd, and the internet loves an excuse to bash GW.

Genuinely curious whats going on is all.

winterdyne
31-07-2015, 14:28
Yeah, I'm having trouble believing this as Forgeworld have been doing the US circuit for years and know the ropes. Is there really such a disconnect between FW and GW proper?

El_Commi
31-07-2015, 14:36
I Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager when they were airing together. The first was producing well-scripted arcs and fantastic television, while the second was producing mediocre and painful to watch "entertainment." Coincidentally (or not), it was Voyager which had all the attention of the higher ups whereas DS9 was mostly ignored and left to its own devices.

Agreed.
Im always surprised at people who rate Voyager over DS9. Heretics.

Lost_Heretic
31-07-2015, 14:37
218035

Rumor is False. (This photo was sent to me by an attendee; I don't have any further info about GW at GenCon)
@Sandchigger says if those exhibitors are from Nottingham, "they have rather convincing American accents."

Forge World was covering the booth yesterday (per OP). I'm not sure if they have some state side volunteers or conscripted some GW store employees to help at GenCon due to the emergency.

Over all, I just think it's really unfortunate that the Nottingham folks were unable to attend. I think it would have been a very good learning experience for them.

Poncho160
31-07-2015, 14:48
Except for the diorama, which looks cool, where are all the other things that are usually at a games companies booth? Stuff that all the other games companies display and promote? GW seem to have been made to look a bit amateurish to be honest.

theredknight
31-07-2015, 14:59
Cast correct Visa on 6+
Cast C&D letter on 1+
hilarious :D:D:D:D

jtrowell
31-07-2015, 15:10
hilarious :D:D:D:D

And of course as it is Age of Sigmar, a natural roll of 1 is not longer auto-fail for the C&D letter :D

rob451
31-07-2015, 16:25
What I find amusing is that on the GenCon 2015 exhibitor map Games Workshop aren't listed but Forgeworld are listed twice. Based on the photo evidence GW got a booth in Forgeworlds name (a tiny corner booth which is 1/4 the size of Corvus Belli's) while Forgeworlds booth is 3 times larger than the AoS booth.

BasetheRuin
31-07-2015, 16:32
Though it is a pretty cool diorama. And the Sigmar guys are pretty cool looking as an army on the board.

Deadhorse
31-07-2015, 16:33
That makes sense because FW actually have a ton of stuff to show, while their GW bretheren presented AoS. And AoS currently consists of some sigmarines (who mostly look the same) and some chaos dudes. And 4 pages of rules. So not much to display, really, a diaroma and some boxes.

rob451
31-07-2015, 16:38
Apparently there are boxed copies of AoS to buy at the Forgeworld stand not the AoS stand (via Beasts of Wars live blog with pictures) which is on the complete other side of the Con. They almost couldn't be further apart without one being in a van in the parking lot.

paddyalexander
31-07-2015, 16:50
The difference a day makes. That is a massive improvement over what they had set up yesterday. It looks like gwgPLC was able to get their promotion material, if not their staff trough customs at the least.

Darnok
31-07-2015, 20:27
218035

Rumor is False. (This photo was sent to me by an attendee; I don't have any further info about GW at GenCon)

Yeah... no. Note how there is no product around to sell, at all. It's a diorama, some posters, and some folks standing around.


Indeed, I mean no one makes mistakes.....

A company the size of GW should not make a mistake of that sort.

Blutrache
31-07-2015, 20:29
Yep, somethings came through the customs. Judging from the pictures it's the very same diorama (looks nice, but they're usually good at those things) they had in the entrance hall at gwhq. But really, if they were planning to have a bunch of people flown over there for q&a's and more AoS activities shouldn't it have been a bigger space?
/Cheers

Blutrache
31-07-2015, 20:38
A company the size of GW should not make a mistake of that sort.

1500 employees globally. The reboot of one of two flagship product lines with a do or die option. You'd be forgiven for thinking they'd focus a bit more on making it happen...
/Cheers

Deadhorse
31-07-2015, 20:48
Well, my feelings toward AoS could be summed up by 'kill it before it lays eggs', so I wish GW employees all the worst in their endeavours to sell and market this product. So far it seems to be working.

Conversely, I wish the FW guys and 30k all the best. Maybe they can demonstrate the difference between a successful product launch and corporate poop.

Wintermute
31-07-2015, 20:52
I think it might have to do with GW management taking a more hands off approach to FW versus GW proper. That would be a similar situation to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager when they were airing together. The first was producing well-scripted arcs and fantastic television, while the second was producing mediocre and painful to watch "entertainment." Coincidentally (or not), it was Voyager which had all the attention of the higher ups whereas DS9 was mostly ignored and left to its own devices.

Someone clearly has no idea what was really happening with the writing and production of the Star Trek shows (Roddenberry and his lawyer were a major problem for the writers) and held it back, which is why TNG dated very quickly and why DS9 is the superior show of the three and the precursor of the re-imagined BSG.

ebbwar
31-07-2015, 20:55
A company the size of GW should not make a mistake of that sort.

Nailed it. :)

ebbwar
31-07-2015, 20:56
Someone clearly has no idea what was really happening with the writing and production of the Star Trek shows (Roddenberry and his lawyer were a major problem for the writers) and held it back, which is why TNG dated very quickly and why DS9 is the superior show of the three and the precursor of the re-imagined BSG.

Huzzah, there are more DS9 is the best of the three believers out there :D

cornonthecob
31-07-2015, 22:50
Someone clearly has no idea what was really happening with the writing and production of the Star Trek shows (Roddenberry and his lawyer were a major problem for the writers) and held it back, which is why TNG dated very quickly and why DS9 is the superior show of the three and the precursor of the re-imagined BSG.

From what I understand....

ST-OS : Roddenberry was fully on board which was fine...for a while.

ST - NG : Roddenberry was involved on the first season but he hadn't adapted well since it was utter drek. They got him to back off though and things were moving on up.

Then he died

ST DS9 : Started , was a bit weird for a while but started getting better and better.

ST Voyager : Appeared about S3 of DS9 but had left-over writers from Next Generation who were lacking to put it bluntly, they rehashed main storylines and ideas and suffered from insane amounts of executive meddling, all this made Voyager what many consider the WORST Star trek series.

Enterprise : They kept the same writers which killed the show due to awful first two seasons, third season got better and fourth was where the show started getting good but at that point it was too late.

Brannon and Burga had killed Star Trek.

Then Abrams got his hands on it and its all style over substance now.

Voss
31-07-2015, 22:54
Huzzah, there are more DS9 is the best of the three believers out there :D
I've honestly never seen anyone suggest anything else. They might like a specific character from another show better, but so many ST episodes are downright painful to watch. (Even DS9 had a few, though it usually involved the writers abusing O'Brien.)



A company the size of GW should not make a mistake of that sort.
Guess they shouldn't have stopped running Games Days in other countries. Apparently the hiatus memory wiped a secretary or three. They used to do this routinely, several times a year.

cornonthecob
31-07-2015, 22:57
Poor O'brien

The_Real_Chris
31-07-2015, 23:53
I feel sorry for the poor bloke who will lose their job.

Skargit Crookfang
31-07-2015, 23:57
Huzzah, there are more DS9 is the best of the three believers out there :D

We are many in numbers, yet quiet in gloating. That is our burden ;)

Buddy Bear
01-08-2015, 00:15
Someone clearly has no idea what was really happening with the writing and production of the Star Trek shows (Roddenberry and his lawyer were a major problem for the writers) and held it back, which is why TNG dated very quickly and why DS9 is the superior show of the three and the precursor of the re-imagined BSG.

I was talking about Voyager, not TNG. And Roddenberry died four years before the premiere of Voyager. Berman and Bragga were running things at that point, and they focused entirely on Voyager, while only giving DS9 a passing glance from time to time. Feel free to look up interviews with Ron Moore, who explains the whole situation. Originally Berman only wanted the Dominion War to last two episodes, but the show writers were able to turn it into a two-year event through Berman's disinterest in the show and focus on Voyager.

sephiroth87
01-08-2015, 00:25
On the main topic, I am thoroughly enjoying watching this dumpster fire burn some more. Only an idiocy like this could follow the "broadly acclaimed" release of Age of Sigmar.

Jesus Christ on a crutch.


I assume that at the next convention, Jervis Johnson will his forget his lunch and have to survive on gas station packs of mustard. It's the only thing that could top this. Maybe a Nottingham staffer will accidentally lock himself in the bathroom for three days while the other staffers are forced by management to yell "For the Lady" as they ineffectually try to kick the door open. Who knows? Anything's possible on the downhill slide.

Wolf Lord Balrog
01-08-2015, 15:01
/popcorn






Words for the word god.

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk

Galain
01-08-2015, 15:33
218035

Rumor is False. (This photo was sent to me by an attendee; I don't have any further info about GW at GenCon)

You DO know that that's a picture of what was in the OP, right?

No one said the Diorama didn't make it through, they said the Nottingham PEOPLE didn't make it through.

Though it's rather amusing that everyone looked at what was there and immediately assumed there was meant to be more. It's a reasonable assumption, but...GW.

NoobLord
02-08-2015, 20:21
So Beasts of War are covering GenCon with their roving reporter providing regular photos, breaking news and interviews and guess what? GW declined the offer of appearing in front of the camera as they 'had instructions from GW not to do interviews'. Obviously that's their choice to make but it seems a bit strange. Everyone is else is only too happy to give 5-10 mins to show their enthusiasm for their latest stuff yet GW has different ideas. It's like on Newsnight when they say 'we invited the Foreign Office to comment but they said they had no-one available' - sounds like the Foreign Office is too scared. Whatever, another opportunity missed.

Malagor
02-08-2015, 20:27
Well you can't risk them reaching out to possible customers through interviews.

Inquisitor Kallus
02-08-2015, 20:41
Yeah... no. Note how there is no product around to sell, at all. It's a diorama, some posters, and some folks standing around.



A company the size of GW should not make a mistake of that sort.

Ha haa, sorry, i cant imagine they wanted to but things happen. You guys on Warseer ever make mistakes? A site of your size should not make those kind of mistakes... See, it just doesnt hold up and is a crappy argument. It could have been down to one or two people. I know for a fact one of the departments co ordinators if off on leave. Its all too easy to say things like this shouldnt happen, its just far too easy to consistently bash something, especially when you have a grudge against it..

ebbwar
02-08-2015, 21:15
Well you can't risk them reaching out to possible customers through interviews.

How odd. I thought an interview would be the perfect place for GW to tell the market what it wants... ;)


Ha haa, sorry, i cant imagine they wanted to but things happen. You guys on Warseer ever make mistakes? A site of your size should not make those kind of mistakes... See, it just doesnt hold up and is a crappy argument. It could have been down to one or two people. I know for a fact one of the departments co ordinators if off on leave. Its all too easy to say things like this shouldnt happen, its just far too easy to consistently bash something, especially when you have a grudge against it..

I've worked in an international company where I had to arrange for employees to travel all round the globe and ensure that everything runs smoothly. Having a departmental co-ordinator on leave would never be an valid excuse for a basic screw-up like this.

But GW being GW, all I can see from this is that they will stop sending people aboard to conventions etc to demo products instead of learning from their mistakes and do better next time :P

Herzlos
02-08-2015, 21:27
So Beasts of War are covering GenCon with their roving reporter providing regular photos, breaking news and interviews and guess what? GW declined the offer of appearing in front of the camera as they 'had instructions from GW not to do interviews'. Obviously that's their choice to make but it seems a bit strange. Everyone is else is only too happy to give 5-10 mins to show their enthusiasm for their latest stuff yet GW has different ideas. It's like on Newsnight when they say 'we invited the Foreign Office to comment but they said they had no-one available' - sounds like the Foreign Office is too scared. Whatever, another opportunity missed.

GW has had a very strict "no press interviews" policy since forever. Even for positive stories they refuse to comment/interview. Them refusing an interview here is just an extension of that, no matter how stupid it looks.

Inquisitor Kallus
02-08-2015, 21:29
How odd. I thought an interview would be the perfect place for GW to tell the market what it wants... ;)



I've worked in an international company where I had to arrange for employees to travel all round the globe and ensure that everything runs smoothly. Having a departmental co-ordinator on leave would never be an valid excuse for a basic screw-up like this.

But GW being GW, all I can see from this is that they will stop sending people aboard to conventions etc to demo products instead of learning from their mistakes and do better next time :P

People never make mistakes, oh wait....

ebbwar
02-08-2015, 22:27
People never make mistakes, oh wait....

I'm not saying people never make mistakes, I'm saying that an international company should have measures in place to minimise mistakes. Especially with stuff related to a brand new product/IP that you want to be on top form for...

If Apple (you know that little company GW so wishes it was the miniatures version of :P ) lost its core team demoing a new iPhone/iPad due to not sorting out the paperwork properly, they would quite rightly get slated by everyone for not being professional. I don't see why GW should get let off.

Inquisitor Kallus
02-08-2015, 22:40
Get let off? You obviously arent on Warseer much, lol

The_Real_Chris
02-08-2015, 23:13
It is an error that speaks volumes about company culture. If a team of mine was going overseas first thing they would want is visa (well and an expenses forward) and the first thing they would do when they got the passport is check said visa.

What is the attitude when you don't? Just do what you are told? Don't care? Fed up of trying to correct the boss?

paddyalexander
03-08-2015, 00:01
That BoW blog post also mentions that the gwgPLC rep being interviewed was from the UK so this story probably got blown out of proportion (or a British women happened to be working for gwgPLC in the area and was able to cover) but this entire thing has been a very amateurish endeavor, especial in an environment where there much smaller competition is out doing them in every way possible.

Zywus
03-08-2015, 01:10
That BoW blog post also mentions that the gwgPLC rep being interviewed was from the UK so this story probably got blown out of proportion (or a British women happened to be working for gwgPLC in the area and was able to cover) but this entire thing has been a very amateurish endeavor, especial in an environment where there much smaller competition is out doing them in every way possible.
As the story goes, Forgeworld were also there and did manage the AoS booth for a while. This was planned, at least for one of the days. And FW staff is mainly brits I believe.

As long as GW never comment on whether people actually were deported this will just go a few rounds on the Internet indian-whispers-roundabout and it will soon be cemented in peoples mind that it's what happened.
Like the 'fact' that those silly AoS theater rules were added with the intent of shaming people from using their old miniatures in public.

In the end, GW are the ones ultimately to blame, since they do not communicate and thereby do not attempt to control the narrative (or perhaps forge it, rather ;))

Galain
03-08-2015, 01:37
Ha haa, sorry, i cant imagine they wanted to but things happen. You guys on Warseer ever make mistakes? A site of your size should not make those kind of mistakes... See, it just doesnt hold up and is a crappy argument. It could have been down to one or two people. I know for a fact one of the departments co ordinators if off on leave. Its all too easy to say things like this shouldnt happen, its just far too easy to consistently bash something, especially when you have a grudge against it..

Yes, an entirely fan-run non-corporation internet website is EXACTLY the same as a publicly traded company that's been in business for over 30 years.

You taking the ****, mate?

Kisanis
03-08-2015, 05:37
So GW does massive budget cuts, and wage freezes of staff.

End result, someone couldnt give enough of a damn to double check their visas on a make or break international convention.

They then go into media hush mode at a convention.... where they are trying to promote this new make or break game.

That to me is worse than the visa debacle.

Seriously, what the hell is the point to pitching up to a convention and then NOT promoting ypur product with all the free advertising and marketing from the bloggers, reporters, and other attendees?!

that is 1000x worse than the visa debacle. The visa debacle was unplanned ignorance. The hushing of the promo team is just willfull stupidity!

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Buddy Bear
03-08-2015, 05:42
That is bizarre. They were at Gencon ostensibly for the purpose of promoting the game, but when an opportunity to further promote the game arose they declined it. That's not exactly an auspicious start which'll result in the success of their new game.

75hastings69
03-08-2015, 07:10
So GW does massive budget cuts, and wage freezes of staff.

End result, someone couldnt give enough of a damn to double check their visas on a make or break international convention.

They then go into media hush mode at a convention.... where they are trying to promote this new make or break game.

That to me is worse than the visa debacle.

Seriously, what the hell is the point to pitching up to a convention and then NOT promoting ypur product with all the free advertising and marketing from the bloggers, reporters, and other attendees?!

that is 1000x worse than the visa debacle. The visa debacle was unplanned ignorance. The hushing of the promo team is just willfull stupidity!

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

Totally agree.

lordreaven448
03-08-2015, 07:14
You guys just don't see the genius plan Kirby has with this. If those staffers talked to the reporters then it might have ruined his genius plan of promoting. You need to understand GW only caters to certain people, and those people don't like it when the unwashed masses buy GW products. GW cannot tarnish it's products by having them visible to the public eye. That's why Star Wars if managed by GW would be 1000% better, because it's been tarnished by allowing peasants to Cherish it and even make model space ships that don't sell at all!

/sarcasm off

ebbwar
03-08-2015, 08:06
You guys just don't see the genius plan Kirby has with this. If those staffers talked to the reporters then it might have ruined his genius plan of promoting. You need to understand GW only caters to certain people, and those people don't like it when the unwashed masses buy GW products. GW cannot tarnish it's products by having them visible to the public eye. That's why Star Wars if managed by GW would be 1000% better, because it's been tarnished by allowing peasants to Cherish it and even make model space ships that don't sell at all!

/sarcasm off

Someone should remind Kirby how much more money he'd get if he spread GW sales to the unwashed masses. He'd soon drop the elitism :P

NCO
03-08-2015, 08:27
Maybe they're trying to prove the point that they really don't want to communicate with customers.

MiyamatoMusashi
03-08-2015, 08:29
Seriously, what the hell is the point to pitching up to a convention and then NOT promoting ypur product with all the free advertising and marketing from the bloggers, reporters, and other attendees?!

that is 1000x worse than the visa debacle. The visa debacle was unplanned ignorance. The hushing of the promo team is just willfull stupidity!

Yeah, this.

I mean, getting visas wrong is full-on amateur hour, and it's not just one person making a mistake but several, all making the same mistake and/or not bothering to check it. Still, y'know, whatever. Mistakes happen, even among multiple people sometimes - and the end result was that someone got turned back at the border, not, say, what happened in Rotherham (just been on the radio), which is a mistake made by a whole bunch of people over a long period of time, that really matters.

But what the heck is the point in taking your new game to Gencon then doing nothing with it except saying to passers by "hey, look at this!"? They've probably already seen it, on the internet (and probably don't care). Give them a reason to care!

FFG, at Gencon, announced fully ten new products that I find myself desperate to buy (SWIA expansion plus allies/villains, Descent expansion plus lieutenants, Runebound) plus at least as many again that I've no personal interest in, but others presumably will. As a result I've already set aside a big chunk of my hobby money for Q4 this year. GW didn't announce anything and, by all accounts, didn't do anything much, other than stand around next to a glass cabinet refusing to answer questions. And this is supposed to be exemplary of their new more outgoing approach to conventions? Why bother going at all?

azhagmorglum
03-08-2015, 08:42
I guess they were trying to avoid any spoiler of their next week super secret release for AoS. ... yet another sigmardudes with some kind of disproportionate weapon.

Ghal Maraz
03-08-2015, 14:36
You're all totally wrong. That's another masterplan to have an unexpected accident to blame on in the next financial report.

Inviato dal mio GT-I9301I utilizzando Tapatalk

Rick_1138
03-08-2015, 14:38
TBF, GW has always been thus at events, and often didnt even turn up, so they are maybe slowly coming back 9bar the visa fubar)

A mate used to manage a shop and they talked about the wailing and gnashing of teeth a lot and a lot of it comes back to their attitude that they front their business with their stores, not online or at shows etc.

They get a lot of flack and some even get abuse once even violence threatened and tbh GW probably just dont want that at their stands.

However they could take some tip[s from FW and be quite popular.

Its the stoney sl=ilence that grates many, but tbf many ideas people come up with and exclaim as being 'what GW SHOULD do" wont in fact work but they get angry when GW dont do it.

what works for Corvus Belli may not work for GW, though i can see how seminar teasers and exclusive models could go wrong.

But ah well.

ewar
03-08-2015, 17:13
The lack of active promotion is utterly criminal - surely the ONLY people you could warrant sending half way round the world would be individuals you have given express permission to talk to the gaming press?

And then suitably prepared them to answer difficult questions by giving judicious, diplomatic answers that tow the company line but show you're listening to customers. To go all that way and set up a diorama and cardboard sign... it's .... it's... incomprehensible.

paddyalexander
03-08-2015, 17:20
They get a lot of flack and some even get abuse once even violence threatened and tbh GW probably just dont want that at their stands.

Every other company out there don't have these problems (or to be accurate they do but only from a very small number of nut cases) so why can't gwgPLC do what every other game company out there is doing. Maybe if they stopped treating their own customers like garbage then maybe they might see more positivity from the community in return.

NoobLord
03-08-2015, 17:26
It's not as if they'd be fielding questions from Jeremy Paxman or Kirsty Waaaaarrrrrhk, just a free pass to talk about their new game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk

ebbwar
03-08-2015, 20:03
It's not as if they'd be fielding questions from Jeremy Paxman or Kirsty Waaaaarrrrrhk, just a free pass to talk about their new game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk

I would love to see a Paxman vs Kirby showdown. I'd pay money to see it :D

Inquisitor Kallus
03-08-2015, 20:05
As the story goes, Forgeworld were also there and did manage the AoS booth for a while. This was planned, at least for one of the days. And FW staff is mainly brits I believe.

As long as GW never comment on whether people actually were deported this will just go a few rounds on the Internet indian-whispers-roundabout and it will soon be cemented in peoples mind that it's what happened.
Like the 'fact' that those silly AoS theater rules were added with the intent of shaming people from using their old miniatures in public.

In the end, GW are the ones ultimately to blame, since they do not communicate and thereby do not attempt to control the narrative (or perhaps forge it, rather ;))

Indeed


Yes, an entirely fan-run non-corporation internet website is EXACTLY the same as a publicly traded company that's been in business for over 30 years.

You taking the ****, mate?


It is hereby decreed, ive carved it in stone on the city clock tower, that no professional company is allowed to make mistakes. If you do ye shall be hung drawn and quartered and no reasoning will excuse you. If you are anyone else, tis fine!

Here concludeth the proclomation of Zanzibar

Now go forth, and eat chicken

NoobLord
03-08-2015, 20:14
Just watched the near 2 hour seminar by Carlos of Corvus Belli (Infinity). I often read 'GW are light years ahead of the competition' but I seriously doubt they could fill a room and have people eat out of their hand, giving a ton of information, answering questions, and cracking jokes, all in a foreign language. I don't even play Infinity but have to admire this guy and his company.

rob451
04-08-2015, 00:54
To be fair on the interview thing you have to remember that the staff at the GW stand were not the events team staff they intended to send (as they had been deported) and so hadn't practiced their interview technique or got their canned answers down pat.

If I was drafted at the last minute to go and represent a company at a con with zero notice or practice then giving interviews is the last thing I'd want to do and that is exactly what happened.

The_Real_Chris
04-08-2015, 00:56
Refusing media interviews is something that would make even GW investors be a bit surprised at if they bothered to be aware.

Losing Command
04-08-2015, 06:25
I thought it is one of GW's fundamental policies that thou shall not converse with the commone... ehm customers beyond the selling of product :p Sounds like the staff at GenCon are doing a splendid job of representing their company.
I respect them for showing up in the first place though. If somebody told me to go promote AoS at a convention I'd refuse no matter what payment it would get me.

Kisanis
04-08-2015, 06:28
To be fair on the interview thing you have to remember that the staff at the GW stand were not the events team staff they intended to send (as they had been deported) and so hadn't practiced their interview technique or got their canned answers down pat.

If I was drafted at the last minute to go and represent a company at a con with zero notice or practice then giving interviews is the last thing I'd want to do and that is exactly what happened.
Sorry, but if you work local retail and are drafyed to a convention and cant think that quickly on your feet your part of the problem.

They should be doing the following:
Demo the game.
Answer constructive questions about game mechanics
Demo the game
Talk up the fluff
Demo the game more?
Talk up the models
Demo more
Notice how not space marine-y these sigmarines are?
Repeat ad naseum.

Someone gets in you face about hating on AoS and the destruction of the WHFB world? You direct them to the PR/head office on either memphis or nottingham as you dont deal with those decisions.
Then ask them if they want to try a demo of the game.

I mean, im not an AoS fan by any means, but this is retail 101. GW does have a retail presence right?

RETAIL 101. Its the hard sell, the interpersonal chatting, tie it back to the customer and their happy experiences in wargaming. Etc.. etc... that con blogger is the customer. Make him love it, you'll make his viewers love it.

But what do I know, ive just got 10+ years in sales, trained as a teacher, and worked retail....

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Khastarax
04-08-2015, 09:38
1500 employees globally. The reboot of one of two flagship product lines with a do or die option. You'd be forgiven for thinking they'd focus a bit more on making it happen...
/Cheers

This...

Mistakes can happen, although kind of amateuristic from a company GW size while they have FW experience so close by

No demo games, no (payd) event miniature a la gamesday: a special Sigmarine perhaps?, touch and see mini's and scenery? An event exclusive 'what's next...' to get the community buzzing?

Sad to see the reboot going up in flames, you'd think that with their new golden statue and all they would make it look like they'd make an effort...

rob451
04-08-2015, 11:03
Sorry, but if you work local retail and are drafyed to a convention and cant think that quickly on your feet your part of the problem.

They should be doing the following:
Demo the game.
Answer constructive questions about game mechanics
Demo the game
Talk up the fluff
Demo the game more?
Talk up the models
Demo more
Notice how not space marine-y these sigmarines are?
Repeat ad naseum.

Someone gets in you face about hating on AoS and the destruction of the WHFB world? You direct them to the PR/head office on either memphis or nottingham as you dont deal with those decisions.
Then ask them if they want to try a demo of the game.

I mean, im not an AoS fan by any means, but this is retail 101. GW does have a retail presence right?

RETAIL 101. Its the hard sell, the interpersonal chatting, tie it back to the customer and their happy experiences in wargaming. Etc.. etc... that con blogger is the customer. Make him love it, you'll make his viewers love it.

But what do I know, ive just got 10+ years in sales, trained as a teacher, and worked retail....

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

Being interviewed on camera is very different to working in retail. I've done my share of videogame conventions and you have to do weeks of prep beforehand practicing interview answers, learning how to redirect questions you don't want to answer on to topics that you are allowed to talk about. As the interviews are captured forever in video you have to be very careful about what you say as you represent the company and anything you say will be considered gospel.

Especially when you are representing a company like GW who everybody will be trying to get one over during the interview so they can nab an exclusive. The moment that camera turns on you most people will freeze up and um and ah their way through a sales pitch they may have given a hundred times.

Kisanis
04-08-2015, 13:23
@rob451 granted there's some good points there.

I still feel like they could be doing a lot there.

I also feel like the FW guys could help with that aspect, and a phone call with the convention guys who were deported could give a crash course on media relations.

Again, they can be doing a hell of a lot more than standing around a glass case.

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cracou2
04-08-2015, 15:57
again, where is the proof that they have not been able to attend?

"people say". If've just seen 2 posts and among them one was a first poster, so where are the sources?

Sothron
04-08-2015, 16:55
People have accused me of being a full on GW hater but it is not true. It genuinely upsets and saddens me beyond my ability to convey in words how much seeing GW fail year after year. This is the company that made me fall in love with them going all the way back to the mid and late 80's. And now in 2015 I look at this company and just can not fathom what they are thinking. A company that completely isolates itself from its customers, that does not listen to customers, that discontinues on a whim a thirty plus year old fantasy setting that many consider one of the best in the world.

I want the old GW to come back. The current GW seems like it destined to appear on a CNET article of "15 more Darwin Awards for Business".

MiyamatoMusashi
04-08-2015, 17:38
again, where is the proof that they have not been able to attend?

"people say". If've just seen 2 posts and among them one was a first poster, so where are the sources?

What kind of proof would be acceptable to you?

A signed affidavit from the US Border Patrol, perhaps, confirming that GW staff were turned away over VISA issues, with the stamp of approval from the White House?

Or do you think GW should put out a public statement on their website: "yes, just in case anyone's having an argument on an internet forum, we did **** this one up"?

Just what exactly will satisfy you here?

Nogginthenog
04-08-2015, 18:00
To be fair on the interview thing you have to remember that the staff at the GW stand were not the events team staff they intended to send (as they had been deported) and so hadn't practiced their interview technique or got their canned answers down pat.

If I was drafted at the last minute to go and represent a company at a con with zero notice or practice then giving interviews is the last thing I'd want to do and that is exactly what happened.

Its teh two American Ladies who do the Beasts of War coverage part time for them. It isnt even an interview, its basically sticking a camera and a mike in front of the company and saying 'tell us what cool things you have to show us'. Watch any of the other videos, no questions beyond 'what did you bring?' , because that is the intent. So everyone not at gencon can see what is at gencon. Everyone else seems to love the opportunity to reach out to a wider audience, even the very small companies like Kingdom Death. You have a stand at Gencon to promote your stuff, and someone gives you the opportunity, for free, to use that stand expense to reach even more people, and GW say 'no thanks'. Its actually unbelievable that this is company policy.

Overtninja
04-08-2015, 19:23
It's unbelievable to you that the company policy is 'don't make up stuff on the fly if you're put on the spot to represent our products by people with a video camera, microphone, and a youtube channel'? GW was screwed in this situation no matter what they did anyway, at least they avoided being misrepresented.

Nogginthenog
04-08-2015, 19:32
It's unbelievable to you that the company policy is 'don't make up stuff on the fly if you're put on the spot to represent our products by people with a video camera, microphone, and a youtube channel'? GW was screwed in this situation no matter what they did anyway, at least they avoided being misrepresented.

Why would they have to make anything up?

There are no questions to answer other than to show those watching what you have on display. What need is there for making stuff up? Showing off the game is what they had been doing all weekend anyway.

Attending a convention is marketing. That is the sole purpose of attending. Are you trying to claim that the people marketing the product face to face somehow cannot do so to a few thousand more through a camera? What do you actually think was being asked here?
Ronnie Renton stands there, tells everyone how great his new games are, shows the box for the new dungeon crawler thingy and then goes on about how much fun the game is for anyone who wants a go. That is exactly what he would have been doing all weekend anyway. Just like the GW guys.

ColShaw
04-08-2015, 19:42
It's unbelievable to you that the company policy is 'don't make up stuff on the fly if you're put on the spot to represent our products by people with a video camera, microphone, and a youtube channel'? GW was screwed in this situation no matter what they did anyway, at least they avoided being misrepresented.

They are representing the product. If they don't want to be representing the product, or "put on the spot" as you put it, why are they even there?

ebbwar
04-08-2015, 19:53
Being interviewed on camera is very different to working in retail. I've done my share of videogame conventions and you have to do weeks of prep beforehand practicing interview answers, learning how to redirect questions you don't want to answer on to topics that you are allowed to talk about. As the interviews are captured forever in video you have to be very careful about what you say as you represent the company and anything you say will be considered gospel.

Especially when you are representing a company like GW who everybody will be trying to get one over during the interview so they can nab an exclusive. The moment that camera turns on you most people will freeze up and um and ah their way through a sales pitch they may have given a hundred times.

Do you think every rep from every company spent weeks prepping their 'interview blurb' beforehand? Cause... I don't :P

Sephillion
04-08-2015, 20:52
With GW’s ultra-tight policy on communication, it wouldn’t surprise me. That company sees communication and interaction as a failing. They are even more inept at communicating than at managing. That’s saying a lot. What’s worse is that an enthusiast, untrained manager could have done as good a job as any staff trained for weeks to “say the good things”.

If GW is confident in its employees and its products, I don’t see why they cannot let them talk.

cracou2
04-08-2015, 22:46
What kind of proof would be acceptable to you?

Facts:
- the name of a guy planned to go there and not showing
- a first hand account (instead of somebody told somebody) such as the facebook of a GW guy saying "I'm going to Gencon" and we notice that he's not showing
- a message from a long time member that we can trust (and not a first poster)
- the list of people of their booth. If they are some low level staff it's really strange.
- a cancelled presentation for example

Right now we only have "somebody".

Do they have a booth: yes. Do we see some FW guys : yes. Any other fact? no.

Mawduce
04-08-2015, 23:07
Facts:
- the name of a guy planned to go there and not showing
- a first hand account (instead of somebody told somebody) such as the facebook of a GW guy saying "I'm going to Gencon" and we notice that he's not showing
- a message from a long time member that we can trust (and not a first poster)
- the list of people of their booth. If they are some low level staff it's really strange.
- a cancelled presentation for example

Right now we only have "somebody".

Do they have a booth: yes. Do we see some FW guys : yes. Any other fact? no.

1. You will never get one of those names unless it's of a public face in the company. Which GW have almost none of so good luck, and you most likely know this so stop
2. There are multiple first hand accounts on a variety of sites making the claims they got deported. It follows the rules of source backed journalism.
3. Who do you want the information from that you consider a long time trusted member
4. Again, you know those names aren't going to be handed out to everyone in the world.
5. If it was cancelled and no one ever knows what GW is going to do because they don't announce things ahead of time, how does anyone know if it would be real. Even Tom Kirby's signature would be declared forged by you at this point

Were you on the OJ jury?

MiyamatoMusashi
04-08-2015, 23:17
- the name of a guy planned to go there and not showing

John Smith. Does that help? Or would a name actually not help at all? Of course, I made that name up. How would you know if I gave a real one?


- a first hand account (instead of somebody told somebody) such as the facebook of a GW guy saying "I'm going to Gencon" and we notice that he's not showing

The OP provides a twitter handle for someone who spoke directly to the staff. Again, in the absence of GW making a public announcement on their website (which is rather unlikely), that's probably as good as you can expect.


- a message from a long time member that we can trust (and not a first poster)

The OP has hundreds of posts since 2007. Not sure where you're getting this "first poster" idea from. (If we have to go by post counts, you joined less than two months ago, and have 24 posts. Should we dismiss anything you say, as a result?)


- the list of people of their booth. If they are some low level staff it's really strange.

Again - how does that help? Would you expect Tom Kirby and Jervis Johnson to be there in person? If not, how does a list of people in their booth help? Do you know the names of all GW staff and their roles? If not, what information would you gain from the list of names you're asking for?


- a cancelled presentation for example

Do you know if they had announced a presentation? If not, there's not one for them to cancel. It rather sounds like their presence is so low key that a presentation was never on the cards, in which case you'd be asking for something that literally no-one in the world could provide, even if the claim were 100% accurate.

The rumour was posted in the other thread, and the prediction was made as a result that this would mean only FW staff and US GW staff would be on the stand, no UK GW staff would be on the stand. That prediction has since been confirmed to be true. It's... y'know, the scientific method. It did seem unlikely when first mentioned, but what we've learned since would seem to confirm the predictions that could be made about it if it were true... I just don't think you want to accept that confirmation, for some reason, and are asking for deliberately obtuse things, that even if they were provided, you'd declare it weren't enough.

DYoung
05-08-2015, 03:02
John Smith. Does that help? Or would a name actually not help at all? Of course, I made that name up. How would you know if I gave a real one?



The OP provides a twitter handle for someone who spoke directly to the staff. Again, in the absence of GW making a public announcement on their website (which is rather unlikely), that's probably as good as you can expect.



The OP has hundreds of posts since 2007. Not sure where you're getting this "first poster" idea from. (If we have to go by post counts, you joined less than two months ago, and have 24 posts. Should we dismiss anything you say, as a result?)



Again - how does that help? Would you expect Tom Kirby and Jervis Johnson to be there in person? If not, how does a list of people in their booth help? Do you know the names of all GW staff and their roles? If not, what information would you gain from the list of names you're asking for?



Do you know if they had announced a presentation? If not, there's not one for them to cancel. It rather sounds like their presence is so low key that a presentation was never on the cards, in which case you'd be asking for something that literally no-one in the world could provide, even if the claim were 100% accurate.

The rumour was posted in the other thread, and the prediction was made as a result that this would mean only FW staff and US GW staff would be on the stand, no UK GW staff would be on the stand. That prediction has since been confirmed to be true. It's... y'know, the scientific method. It did seem unlikely when first mentioned, but what we've learned since would seem to confirm the predictions that could be made about it if it were true... I just don't think you want to accept that confirmation, for some reason, and are asking for deliberately obtuse things, that even if they were provided, you'd declare it weren't enough.

Wasn't there an earlier post in this thread that mentioned at least one of the people on the stand having a British accent? Granted, I haven't done any research outside of reading this thread but from what I've read so far it is by no means confirmed that what GW presented at Gencon is anything other than what they always intended.

Mawduce
05-08-2015, 03:12
Wasn't there an earlier post in this thread that mentioned at least one of the people on the stand having a British accent? Granted, I haven't done any research outside of reading this thread but from what I've read so far it is by no means confirmed that what GW presented at Gencon is anything other than what they always intended.

Forgeworld staff speak with a british accent too

DYoung
05-08-2015, 05:03
Forgeworld staff speak with a british accent too

Was that person a Forgeworld staff member?

Herzlos
05-08-2015, 10:01
Facts:
- the name of a guy planned to go there and not showing
- a first hand account (instead of somebody told somebody) such as the facebook of a GW guy saying "I'm going to Gencon" and we notice that he's not showing
- a message from a long time member that we can trust (and not a first poster)
- the list of people of their booth. If they are some low level staff it's really strange.
- a cancelled presentation for example

Right now we only have "somebody".

Do they have a booth: yes. Do we see some FW guys : yes. Any other fact? no.

The 2 named FW employees as a source in the OP aren't sufficient for you?

Or the fact that beyond day 1 which we know what FW staff, all of the GW staff were Americans?

cracou2
05-08-2015, 14:09
2. There are multiple first hand accounts on a variety of sites making the claims they got deported.

Cite a single one... Can you provide a link?


It follows the rules of source backed journalism.


Come on....


Who do you want the information from that you consider a long time trusted member

For example somebody with a long list of correct predictions. Not me for example (I'm new on the board even if I read it for years. Well I was on Portent).


John Smith. Does that help? Or would a name actually not help at all? Of course, I made that name up. How would you know if I gave a real one?

"The OP provides a twitter handle for someone who spoke directly to the staff."

it's called second hand account.

"Not sure where you're getting this "first poster" idea from"

Read again the whole thread

" Would you expect Tom Kirby and Jervis Johnson to be there in person? "

If they are intelligent, somebody like that, allowed to speak with GW's voice...

"If not, how does a list of people in their booth help? Do you know the names of all GW staff and their roles? If not, what information would you gain from the list of names you're asking for?"

Try to think a little bit. I'm sure that you can find the answer to this question.

"It's... y'know, the scientific method."

As I'm a scientist, I can tell you that you should read an article on "confirmation bias"....

I honestly believe that GW can fail and I xwould not be that surprised. The problem is that we don't have any FIRM evidence.

You should read again this one too: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_des_oracles

It's the first modern text ever on the scientific method (google translate may help you)

Sephillion
05-08-2015, 14:24
Given the number of comments about GW not being there, and the lack of evidence of them being there, I think it’s safe to assume now that they (the guys from the UK, aside from the FW guys) were indeed not at Gencon. That’s what seems most likely until we get some decent info to the contrary (AFAIK, there is none).

I think we can cut the drama now.

Skargit Crookfang
05-08-2015, 16:10
Given the number of comments about GW not being there, and the lack of evidence of them being there, I think it’s safe to assume now that they (the guys from the UK, aside from the FW guys) were indeed not at Gencon. That’s what seems most likely until we get some decent info to the contrary (AFAIK, there is none).

I think we can cut the drama now.

Okkam's Razor...

Mawduce
05-08-2015, 19:04
Cite a single one... Can you provide a link?



Come on....



For example somebody with a long list of correct predictions. Not me for example (I'm new on the board even if I read it for years. Well I was on Portent).


John Smith. Does that help? Or would a name actually not help at all? Of course, I made that name up. How would you know if I gave a real one?

"The OP provides a twitter handle for someone who spoke directly to the staff."

it's called second hand account.

"Not sure where you're getting this "first poster" idea from"

Read again the whole thread

" Would you expect Tom Kirby and Jervis Johnson to be there in person? "

If they are intelligent, somebody like that, allowed to speak with GW's voice...

"If not, how does a list of people in their booth help? Do you know the names of all GW staff and their roles? If not, what information would you gain from the list of names you're asking for?"

Try to think a little bit. I'm sure that you can find the answer to this question.

"It's... y'know, the scientific method."

As I'm a scientist, I can tell you that you should read an article on "confirmation bias"....

I honestly believe that GW can fail and I xwould not be that surprised. The problem is that we don't have any FIRM evidence.

You should read again this one too: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_des_oracles

It's the first modern text ever on the scientific method (google translate may help you)

If we called GW and asked them and they gave us an answer that was anything other than what you wanted to hear, you would claim it was some random person we called in the community and not GW.

Kisanis
05-08-2015, 19:18
If names started being bandied about "joe smith told me, and john rogers leaked this and that"

Those people would be promptly fired.
The evidence here is the best we will ever have short of a press release by GW, US customs, etc...

Fine take it with a grain of salt, but you're asking for a lot of evidence considering this is a webforum. Evidence that simply does not and likely will never exist.

All we have is fairly reliable hearsay.
Hell, thats all we have get in the rumour forums, but people take it literally.

If you dont beleive it, fine, but do understand that its as hard to prove they were deported and replaced with FW staff as it is to disprove the whole thing.

We've heard no rumours suggesting everything went off without a hook, and all this is hogwash.


Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

cracou2
05-08-2015, 21:33
If we called GW and asked them and they gave us an answer that was anything other than what you wanted to hear, you would claim it was some random person we called in the community and not GW.

Call GW. Ask them. Isn't it basic journalism? asking the company, just in case?

Angelwing
05-08-2015, 21:45
Call GW. Ask them. Isn't it basic journalism? asking the company, just in case?

GW don't do interviews. ;) :p

ebbwar
05-08-2015, 22:05
GWs veil of secrecy would make for a good X-Files episode :D

Lord Damocles
05-08-2015, 22:23
Evidence that simply does not and likely will never exist.
Well if it's true... the evidence must exist.


All we have is fairly reliable hearsay.
Hell, thats all we have get in the rumour forums, but people take it literally.
And how often are said rumours bunk?

Summer of fliers!

cracou2
05-08-2015, 22:32
Interesting, I have a 2 hours interview of Robin Dews in my computer... (for warhammer online), for example.

So question again: can you link me the first sources?

Mawduce
06-08-2015, 00:04
Interesting, I have a 2 hours interview of Robin Dews in my computer... (for warhammer online), for example.

So question again: can you link me the first sources?

Tell you what, if you really want to get us all, you call GW and record it and post what you get. Until then, the rest of the world will go off all the third party confirmations that GW was not at Gencon and only FW was there.

Axel
06-08-2015, 06:40
If you are going to a fair, NEVER tell customs you go there to "work" - tell them you go there for "business".

Herzlos
06-08-2015, 09:04
Call GW. Ask them. Isn't it basic journalism? asking the company, just in case?

GW refuse to talk to journalists, even when they're asking them about success stories.

Ghal Maraz
06-08-2015, 10:19
Interesting, I have a 2 hours interview of Robin Dews in my computer... (for warhammer online), for example.

So question again: can you link me the first sources?
Can you please stop this lamenting and call GW yourself? That is, like, basic journalism. Which Warseer users aren't obliged to do on your whim. If you don't believe the story, go and find the truth. If there is another, different one.

Inviato dal mio GT-I9301I utilizzando Tapatalk

cracou2
06-08-2015, 10:48
Talking about the scientific method:

semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

The call should come from those who state that they were not there.

Science (and Law) 101

ebbwar
06-08-2015, 10:53
Scrodinger's GW - Until they admit they were there or not, they were both at GenCon and not at GenCon at the same time! :eek:

There, that should keep both sides happy. The End. Talk about something else. Or go paint some mini. Just do something else. Please.

Herzlos
06-08-2015, 10:58
Talking about the scientific method:

semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

The call should come from those who state that they were not there.

Science (and Law) 101

You'll only be happy if you hear directly from someone who didn't get through customs? Rather than from one of their co-workers who was there?

I think you'll need to accept that the proof you require doesn't exist. In Science and Law 101, witness statements are perfectly acceptable as evidence.

The rest of us are satisfied enough, unless we see evidence that GW UK did show up.

Darnok
06-08-2015, 11:37
This one has served its purpose, and hasn't gone anywhere for a while.

Thread closed.


Darnok [=I=]
The WarSeer Inquisition