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An'farli
09-08-2015, 07:53
Just a bit of clarification please if a Liberator has paired weapons I am assuming he gets either 4 attacks for the paired warblades or 2 for the warhammer and 2 for the warblade as well as getting the ability for having a paired weapon.

Spiney Norman
09-08-2015, 16:34
I'm pretty sure you only get two attacks

There are three legal variants for liberators that I can see, paired hammers, paired warblades or hammer + shield

There are no rules that say if you carry two of the same weapon you double the number of attacks you make with it (that would make blood reavers absolutely heinous), in the case of liberators having paired hammers just allows you to make your 2 attacks with hammers and gain the paired weapon benefit.

If the rules allowed you to carry one hammer and one warblade then I could see an argument for getting two attacks with each, but they don't.

theunwantedbeing
09-08-2015, 17:01
This question alreayd exists here. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412033-AoS-extra-attacks-with-quot-additional-hand-weapons-quot)

In short, pick an option and go with that until somebody claims otherwise, then roll for it.
We're really just waiting to see if an official answer appears.

Aezeal
09-08-2015, 19:25
You never double anything in a warscroll, AoS is meant to be simple so you always use things once, depending on the wascroll you can use one or more melee or ranged options but if it's Axes or hammers you can use one of the other ONCE (it usually even says AXES or HAMMERS in the warscroll indicating the pural).

darkestvisions
09-08-2015, 23:00
You never double anything in a warscroll, AoS is meant to be simple so you always use things once, depending on the wascroll you can use one or more melee or ranged options but if it's Axes or hammers you can use one of the other ONCE (it usually even says AXES or HAMMERS in the warscroll indicating the pural).

To be fair, the rules don't actually say that you've never to double anything in a warscroll... or that you can use a profile only once!

As 'theunwantedbeing' pointed out, this discussion is already ongoing... I (and my gaming group) are all for being armed with two weapons and receiving two sets of attacks, but we have decided on that amongst ourselves!

Ultimately there is some evidence for both stances - let your own gaming group decide how you wanna play! (until anything official tells us otherwise of course)

Aezeal
09-08-2015, 23:38
No there actually is nothing that says you can use a weapon line 2x. The fact (nearly) all (as far as I know) weaponlines for multiple weapons have the plural in te description should say enough.


Your argument actually makes no sense: there isn’t a rule that says you cannot use a single weapon 2 (or 3.. or 100) times either but I’m not saying my units can attack 2-3-10 times each combat phase either. (The rules also don’t say you cannot pick up your enemies monster units and throw thema cross the room and if they break they suffer 100 mortal wounds.)

My point being (without making even more ridiculous examples): you play by what the rules DO say, not by what the rules do not say. (especially if the rules have been on weight watchers and now number only 4 pages). An argument saying: The rules do not say X – Y – Z is per definition invalid.

Spiney Norman
09-08-2015, 23:46
To be fair, the rules don't actually say that you've never to double anything in a warscroll... or that you can use a profile only once!

As 'theunwantedbeing' pointed out, this discussion is already ongoing... I (and my gaming group) are all for being armed with two weapons and receiving two sets of attacks, but we have decided on that amongst ourselves!

Ultimately there is some evidence for both stances - let your own gaming group decide how you wanna play! (until anything official tells us otherwise of course)

So let me get this straight, you seriously think that my savage Orc war boss with double choppas should have 14 attacks and reroll to hit with all of them, and they told me that power gamers don't play AoS...

darkestvisions
09-08-2015, 23:49
No there actually is nothing that says you can use a weapon line 2x. The fact (nearly) all (as far as I know) weaponlines for multiple weapons have the plural in te description should say enough.


Your argument actually makes no sense: there isn’t a rule that says you cannot use a single weapon 2 (or 3.. or 100) times either but I’m not saying my units can attack 2-3-10 times each combat phase either. (The rules also don’t say you cannot pick up your enemies monster units and throw thema cross the room and if they break they suffer 100 mortal wounds.)

My point being (without making even more ridiculous examples): you play by what the rules DO say, not by what the rules do not say. (especially if the rules have been on weight watchers and now number only 4 pages). An argument saying: The rules do not say X – Y – Z is per definition invalid.


You do realise you've talked yourself out of your own previous statement? If you say that you have to 'play by what the rules DO say'... why do you believe that you never double anything in a warscroll or can only use a weapon profile once? The rules do not say you can DO either of these things...

So, as I mentioned in the other discussion... as per the rules, a model must attack with each of the melee weapons it is armed with. The number of attacks it can make is determined by the weapons it is armed with. A Stormcast Eternals Liberator (for example) is armed with 2 Warhammers, one in each hand. A single 'Warhammer' (note: the weapon profile is singular, not plural) allows 2 attacks, but as he must attack with all two of his melee weapons, that is a Warhammer followed by another Warhammer, making 4 attacks in total. That is what the rules DO say.

Aezeal
10-08-2015, 17:02
The rules do say you pick the weapon the model has and look at it's attack from the warscroll though.... and do NOT say you can use it twice. Turning my words around doesn't change that and just makes your reasoning more silly.

The fact warhammer is not plural makes it a bit less clear but in the end you just pick one weapon type and then one special rule (paired weapons or the shield).

The grandhammer and swords are upgrades IMHO and that would not be the case if you get 4 attacks with 2 handweapons, but that is not real prove.

Dosiere
10-08-2015, 21:04
I have to say the thought never even crossed my mind that this would be a potential issue. The rules are so bloody simple, the warscrolls tell you what happens when you have paired weapons. In this case you get to re roll to hit rolls of 1. That's it. Any other interpretation has exactly no rules that can be used to explain it.

Trying to argue that the rules don't explicitly say NOT to do something is a dark and perilous path to tread and is almost always wrong, as it is in this case.

theunwantedbeing
10-08-2015, 21:40
The rules do say you pick the weapon the model has and look at it's attack from the warscroll though.... and do NOT say you can use it twice. Turning my words around doesn't change that and just makes your reasoning more silly.


Trying to argue that the rules don't explicitly say NOT to do something is a dark and perilous path to tread and is almost always wrong, as it is in this case.

:eyebrows:
I sure am convinced of the correct answer now.