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Horus38
24-08-2015, 12:50
So I'm about a quarter of the way through Asurmen and had really high hopes for it. Guy Haley absolutely blew me away with his Valedor novel which is one of the best depictions of the Eldar to ever come out of the Black Library.

Enter Gav Thorpe. I don't know what it is specifically about Gav, but he is no Guy Haley and can't write Eldar worth a ####. You'd think with this being one of those limited edition - first run novella's they'd bring out the prime talent. Anyways I just had to get that off my chest as it was really bugging me. Anyone else agree or disagree? Thoughts and critiques welcomed.

Also I noticed in the upper right hand of the non-limited edition cover it has "Phoenix Lords" in this stylized red box which has me curious if they're planning on doing books for the others.

Khaines Wrath
26-08-2015, 22:02
That does appear to be the case regarding the other Phoenix Lords. That's a shame to hear Asurmen isn't very good though. I've been considering getting it for the cover alone. If the other ones turn out better I might just get it to complete the set. Im hoping Maugan Ra and Jain Zar get better treatment.

Horus38
26-08-2015, 23:44
That does appear to be the case regarding the other Phoenix Lords. That's a shame to hear Asurmen isn't very good though. I've been considering getting it for the cover alone. If the other ones turn out better I might just get it to complete the set. Im hoping Maugan Ra and Jain Zar get better treatment.

I finished and it's... passable. It's clearly meant to be part of a larger story which further supports there being other Phoenix Lord books. Gav's writing style rubs me the wrong way at times as he seems to drag out irrelevant scenes while important events are sometimes just a "and then this happened", like :wtf: I did notice some reviews online praising Gav's other Eldar work so it may just me getting precious about the Eldar when he doesn't write them with the proper amount of gravitas. It does offer a lot of backstory for Asurmen and he gets plenty of face time.

Scribe of Khorne
27-08-2015, 01:42
He's actually 'the Eldar guy' having done their earlier Path of the X series, until it went to the Dark Eldar and Chambers came in rocking with a great (imo) series.

My last Gav book was Deliverance Lost, and thats all I've got to say on that. I enjoyed his Dark Angel book (I think one of his first works?) but I think his strained and 'awkward' style fit that book better than the more recent things hes done.

At this point its almost unfair as folks get compared to guys like ADB and such who have a 'style' that resonates with readers, and for a lot of people thats just not Gav.

reds8n
27-08-2015, 09:32
I enjoyed the "flashback" stuff -- to the time of the fall -- as well as the scenes in the Temple/webway meeting place.

Thought the ship was a nice touch/addition too.

blackcherry
27-08-2015, 11:06
Gav's stuff is...I think the best term to describe it is thoughtful, which at times can come across as a bit dry. Being GW's original 'Eldar Guy', and for a while the Loremaster, can do that I suppose.

I like his style a lot and his Path series has a lot more going on under the hood than it initially lets on, even if some of the events of the book and background don't quite mesh with everyone's idea of who the Eldar are (I think there's a thread knocking around in 40k background discussing the logistics of one of his books and how they don't quite work).

He has his own style, but it is a lot more subdued and not as immediately gripping as, say, ADB or Guy Hayley.

Horus38
27-08-2015, 12:47
Indeed, I was ecstatic when the Path books started coming out and really enjoyed their in-depth look at the Eldar society. But my god, that ending was just a "are you kidding me?!?" moment.

Bellarius did a review of Valedor which I thought summed up my scattered thoughts rather nicely: "The main failing of Gav Thrope’s own Path of the Eldar series was, above all else, making the aliens far too human and knowable. Here this is sidestepped in a truly ingenious way, by utterly embracing the overt and theatrical nature of the race. Everything here seems oddly exaggerated, never so much as to be hammy or cliched, but enough to give it an oddly Frank Herbert-esque quality and an atmosphere of mysticism."

Darke
27-08-2015, 15:01
Unfortunately Gav Thorpe is usually not a great author - his style can best be described as workmanlike. He is a very fast writer, which is good for Black Library, but the prose is not very well written and his plot decisions are oftentimes unusual (assuming he has the authority to even make those decisions).

Rogue Star
29-08-2015, 18:13
Liked a lot of it, demonstration of inter-Craftworld warfare (proxy war by meddling Farseers) and the like... there are a few things which just seem strange to me though, like having a child amongst the Outcasts; sure her mother is presently a member but that's because she feels constrained by the Path system, or desires adventure; that's her emotional development, not that of her offspring, surely she should have returned her to the Craftworld for some kind of communal upbringing in the garden-domes, freeing them both up to continue their own progress... isn't that the idea of the Path?

Also, the idea of the origins of the guardians as a cult... seems odd? Also unnecessary. Most people I've ever talked to just assumed a citizen militia developed post-fall or something based on the protection of the tradeships most Craftworlds started life as... not necessarily 'wrong', it just seems out of all you could show and explore from pre-Fall Eldar... you show a topic no one really felt a need to explore?

Nagash333
29-08-2015, 20:04
Personal choice of course, however for me Gav Thorpe is a fantastic writer, the Sundering Time of Legends series was superb

Raga88
04-09-2015, 19:01
Little out of topic but still the eldar.

1, Are the Carmac short stories any good, or are they just mere commercials for the new game models?

2, Is Goto's Eldar Prophecy novel better than his DAW novels or should I just forget it's existence?

3, Are there any novel about (Craftworld) Eldar fighting against Space Marines?

Fen
04-09-2015, 22:10
1)From what i remember,not all that much good in there (but i've not read them myself so going by third hand accounts of them)
2)No (same caveat as above)
3)The last part of each of the three "Path of" CWE version deals with it (mainly Path of the Outcast) but it's not the focus


Going back to the title...I wanted to get this book as soon as i discovered about it since i loved the flashback in Path of the warrior....But alas,first edition shenanigans with price have kept me from it so far...I'll probably get the hardback sooner or later now that's avaiable but the delay killed part of my interest

Lord Damocles
05-09-2015, 10:29
1, Are the Carmac short stories any good, or are they just mere commercials for the new game models?
They're okay. They get better as they go along.

Nightspear tries to be a bit too clever in it's format, and it doesn't quite work (although I liked the attempt). It's probably better in hard-copy than the digital version which I got, since the [lack of] formatting makes it unnecessarily difficult to read.
Sky Hunter is nothing special (other than Keladry Kagefyre's name :rolleyes:).
Spirit War doesn't actually focus on the Wraithknight, oddly, and makes you wonder just how the Eldar are losing the war if the Necrons are so incompetent.


2, Is Goto's Eldar Prophecy novel better than his DAW novels or should I just forget it's existence?
Would you rather have cholera or typhoid?

I wouldn't bother reading it if you have a choice (unless you really want to read about craftworld Kaelor).

Sheena Easton
05-09-2015, 19:13
He is a terrible author, down there with a certain much reviled being that was also mentioned in relation to the mutilation of the Eldar.





Would you rather have cholera or typhoid?

.

I'd rather have both at the same time than ever have to recall a single word of that fetid claptrap.

Horus38
08-09-2015, 18:44
1, Are the Carmac short stories any good, or are they just mere commercials for the new game models? The 3rd one is the best, I'd recommend reading just that one if you're on the fence.

2, Is Goto's Eldar Prophecy novel better than his DAW novels or should I just forget it's existence? Anything written by Goto concerning the Eldar is absolute dog crap.

3, Are there any novel about (Craftworld) Eldar fighting against Space Marines? The Path of the Eldar books have a large Imperial guard force supported by space marines attacking Alaitoc. It's built up rather nicely in the first two books, but IMHO it drops the ball with the conclusion in the 3rd book.

If you want to read the best banging awesome Eldar writing to come out of Black Library EVER you'll want to pick up Valedor and Last Days of Ector (both by Guy Haley).

Raga88
09-09-2015, 17:47
If you want to read the best banging awesome Eldar writing to come out of Black Library EVER you'll want to pick up Valedor and Last Days of Ector (both by Guy Haley).
Valedor just arrived at Monday. I think next time I will try Asurmen. I was always curious about the past of the eldar.

DarkChaplain
09-09-2015, 22:02
Thanks for reminding me I need to pick up Valedor. It is the only Guy Haley novel not in my collection yet, I believe. The man can write anything in Scifi / Fantasy and pull it off exceptionally well, if you ask me.

Horus38
10-09-2015, 13:19
Thanks for reminding me I need to pick up Valedor. It is the only Guy Haley novel not in my collection yet, I believe. The man can write anything in Scifi / Fantasy and pull it off exceptionally well, if you ask me.

Hellz yes he can. I was absolutely blown away by Valedor and Last Days of Ector. All the factions (Eldar, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Space Marines) have extremely cool moments/victories that don't detract from the other factions/characters.

DarkChaplain
11-09-2015, 09:21
Its the same with Death of Integrity. He managed to build up two different Chapters (Blood Drinkers and Novamarines) with their own traditions and characters, contrasting them while raising the bar for them, culturally. Add Genestealers and Mechanicum to that, and you've got a winner.
Skarsnik, too, is one of the top entries of WHFB novels. And Baneblade? A far better tank crew novel than any other BL has published to date. It made you care about the crew members and their (partially shared) history. It even explored some of the nasty sides in imperial society.

I'm honestly more excited about his original works at this point, though. The man has fantastic ideas and knows how to execute them.

fluxdeluxe
11-09-2015, 14:58
Its the same with Death of Integrity. He managed to build up two different Chapters (Blood Drinkers and Novamarines) with their own traditions and characters, contrasting them while raising the bar for them, culturally. Add Genestealers and Mechanicum to that, and you've got a winner.
Skarsnik, too, is one of the top entries of WHFB novels. And Baneblade? A far better tank crew novel than any other BL has published to date. It made you care about the crew members and their (partially shared) history. It even explored some of the nasty sides in imperial society.

I'm honestly more excited about his original works at this point, though. The man has fantastic ideas and knows how to execute them.

It's all about Richards and klein

Going to read crash next

DarkChaplain
12-09-2015, 09:38
I honestly wish Richards & Klein would get another novel or three. They were highly entertaining.
Crash is excellent if you ask me. The way it opens up with a vision of earth being trashed and ruled by extreme capitalism and the resulting fallout drew me right in. The whole space colony theme that followed was exciting and kept me on edge.
I'd also recommend Champion of Mars, which actually takes place in the same universe as R&K, just much, much later. Plenty of recurring themes about the 5 crisis and all.

blackcherry
12-09-2015, 20:39
Guy Haley is a very underrated British author. Crash is one of the best built worlds I've read in a long time.