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Dr.Zahnfleisch
14-09-2015, 13:24
Hey folks,

I'm trying to get a 2000-ish Undead force going for casual play, but I have no experience whatsoever with VC in 8th.
The premise is that there will be no Vampires, so things will be a bit more complicated. I'd also like to stay away from Zombies because the models look very outdated.

Here's what I've come up with (units marked with a "!" are non-negotiable since I already have the miniatures):


Master Necromancer - 270
Level 4, Talisman of Preservation, Earthing Rod
General, tries to stay alive as long as possible. Inside defensive Skeleton Warriors.

Wight King (!) -115
Heavy Armour, Killing Blow, Skeletal Steed, Barding, Lance, Enchanted Shield
Adds a bit of punch to the Black Knights and looks awesome.

Wight King -154
Heavy Armour, Killing Blow, Great Weapon, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, War Banner
Battle Standard, more punch for the Grave Guard and +1 Combat Res.

Necromancer -120
Level 2, Dispel Scroll
Support Necro, inside defensive Skeleton Warriors.


38x Skeleton Warriors - 235 Points
Shield, Light Armour, Skeleton Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Lichebone Pennant
Defensive block, core fillers and bus for both Necromancers, (1) Magic Resistance


40x Skeleton Warriors - 255 Points
Shield, Light Armour, Skeleton Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Screaming Banner
Anvil unit and core fillers.


19x Grave Guard (!) - 308 Points
Undead, Heavy Armour, Shield, Great Weapon, Seneschal, Standard Bearer, Musician, The Banner of the Barrows
These guys should bring the pain

9x Black Knights (!) - 275 Points
Heavy Armour, Shield, Spectral Steed, Killing Blow, Barding, Lance, Hell Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
Flanking unit/Chaff clearer. Flaming Attacks to counter Ethereals and Regeneration. Look badass.

5x Hexwraiths (!) - 150 Points
Etheral, Fast Cavalry, Soul Reapers, Soulstriders, Spectral Hunters, Terror, Undead
Chaff clearer and general nuisance for my enemy.

2x Spirit Host - 90 Points
Ethereal
These guys will stall non magic heavy hitters and draw Magic Missiles.


TOTAL: 1976 Points

That's the basic idea with all units I really want to include. 80 Skellies is going to be a lot of hard work, but they are the only "acceptable" core choice for the theme. Maybe I can throw in a few direwolves here and there.

What do you think?

MagicAngle
14-09-2015, 17:21
By going with skellies-only core, and avoiding vamps, you've really given yourself a mountain to climb, but kudos for sticking with the theme. I've always struggled with the necromancer-only list, even though I've tried a number of times, but its quite fun to play if you're bored of the obvious blender-vampire approach.

Within these boundaries, my main concern is that the army looks a little squishy. There's not a lot there that will survive a couple of rounds of pounding from a strong hammer unit.

At a glance, i'd consider dumping the hexies and going for a couple of dire wolf units to (sort-of) fulfil the same chaff/war machine hunting role. Then you can drop one of the skellies units by 80 points and still fulfil the core tax. With the points that you've freed up, maybe go with crypt horrors, who are about the only unit who can really take the pain, or bump up the Grave Guard by 10 or 15 dudes. I think 19 GGs with great weapons isn't quite enough to dish out the hits before they get whittled down to a rump.

Also, I'd strongly recommend running the spirit hosts as 2 single-man units, rather than 1 two-man unit. It's double the irritation to the enemy, and takes at least two spells to delete from the board.

On the topic of terrible GW zombies - the Mantic zombies look fantastic and are pretty cheap. Very nice alternative if you are happy to step outside of GW and you like their aesthetic.

Love to hear how it goes! Who are you up against?

Dr.Zahnfleisch
14-09-2015, 20:15
Hi, thanks for the reply :)

My friend and I are scraping together whatever remnants of our older stuff we can find, so I'll probably be up against Skaven and/or Lizzies. His stuff is not particulaly waac either, so we should be fine balance-wise.

I can't get rid of the Hexwraiths because that's one of the units I already own (and I just love the look on them).

I agree with your overall assessments, though. Spirit Hosts will be fielded seperately and hopefully stall fast heavy hitters for a round or two. The rest will come down to picking the right fights and keeping my Necros alive, so they can keep buffing my units. Another idea is to split the Skeleton blocks into four total, with two being defensive buses for the Necromancers, having two "throwaway" units of Skeletons parked in front of them to set up flank charges by the GG and the Black Knights. This way I could fit three more magic banners into the list and be a bit more flexible in the movement phase.

Wesser
14-09-2015, 21:31
Non-vamp lists Will need grave guard.... And in order to utilize the mandatory banner Best and in order to motivation Cumberland they'kl prolly need to be a 40-man horde even at 2000 points. Sincce your chars Will be support and All core Will be chaff or tarpits you fly need everything Else to try and be hammers.

In such a weak list even wraith-walling is legitimate.

The problem You'll always have is being slow... So slow that terrorgheists aren't going to be Viable.

Skip a wight Kings or Even both and bump GG to 40 guys. And bring Book of Arkhan cuz You'll need to get vanhels off if you want your army to anything except sitting around waiting for your opponent to destroy them

MagicAngle
15-09-2015, 04:39
I've fought Skaven a ton, and have learned to fear the Abom. There's not a lot in the army that can deal with it, once you've counted out vamps and tarpitting with a million zombies. It's vulnerableish to screams, but you don't have any of those in your list presently.

I think you are probably wise to split up the skellies. Note, though, that they can only take a 25-point magic banner, so there's not a lot of worthwhile banners to take for them, other than the screaming banner. In addition I would strongly recommend against putting both necros in the same unit of skellies. Those guys will die as soon as they even get a whiff of combat, and putting both eggs in one basket could mean that you'll be putting your army back in its box by turn 2 or 3 if that unit gets engaged early and the army crumbles. The weakness of your casters in combat is the real bane of necro-only lists, particularly given the crumble mechanic. Just keep them as far away from the bad guys as you can.

I agree with Wesser's point that you're going to want Vanhel's. Without that, your guys wont hit a barn door, or, indeed, even get to it.

For all the crap that people give about blender lords and terrorgheists - without a decent tooled-up vampire or a TG, the Vampire Counts army is a little toothless. Your RnF will be completely outclassed by 90 % of everyone else's stuff and you're going to need to spray out magic spells to just keep them alive and hitting back with any accuracy.

Wesser
15-09-2015, 11:35
Damn auto-correct.... Gotta see if i Can turn it OFF...

sedgey
15-09-2015, 13:03
If you want to go completely skeletal, there's a formation from a couple of Christmases ago called "The Restless Dead" that you can probably find a pdf of online through a quick google search. It had a Wight King leading a 1-4 units of skeleton warriors/1-2 grave guard/1-2 black knights. Unfortunately there aren't any hexwraiths or other spirit units in there. It's also got no magic at all - but it does allow units from the formation to march when within 12" of the Wight King and has another special rule to reduce crumbling.


The formation can be used as part of a larger army if you want more marching/crumble reduction.

Dr.Zahnfleisch
15-09-2015, 13:19
If you want to go completely skeletal, there's a formation from a couple of Christmases ago called "The Restless Dead" that you can probably find a pdf of online through a quick google search. It had a Wight King leading a 1-4 units of skeleton warriors/1-2 grave guard/1-2 black knights. Unfortunately there aren't any hexwraiths or other spirit units in there. It's also got no magic at all - but it does allow units from the formation to march when within 12" of the Wight King and has another special rule to reduce crumbling.


The formation can be used as part of a larger army if you want more marching/crumble reduction.

That is a really nice boost indeed. Thanks for the heads-up!

furrie
15-09-2015, 13:36
I think master of the dead would be a good upgrade for your master necro, that way he can make you skeleton units bigger.

Wesser
15-09-2015, 21:51
I think master of the dead would be a good upgrade for your master necro, that way he can make you skeleton units bigger.

Few skellies more or less. It don't hurt But hardly matters.

Points should go into more wights and ethereals that Can actually win games... Well try to win... AS it stands the list isn't even casual

Vulgarsty
06-10-2015, 20:11
So many 8th books got some cavalry moved from special to core - silverhelms, empire knights etc. shame this didn't happen with the black knights as it would have made an undead all cavalry force possible (which it is with an undead legion I suppose). I hope the 9th age guys fix this.

Wesser
07-10-2015, 08:00
So many 8th books got some cavalry moved from special to core - silverhelms, empire knights etc. shame this didn't happen with the black knights as it would have made an undead all cavalry force possible (which it is with an undead legion I suppose). I hope the 9th age guys fix this.

Myeah, shambling hordes of undeath rly is the theme. I personally find it disastrous that Empire can field armies entirely devoid of State Troops for example.

The real problem is that Undead Core are quite similar, shackled to the Generals march bubble, can't operate on their own and only works in big units, which means there little or no variation in the core section from battle to battle. If 9th should fix anything it prolly ought to be either Unstable or "No marching"...