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Spiney Norman
17-09-2015, 08:23
So I'm digging my lizardmen out for another try at AoS, this time I will be against high elves (or Aelfs, whatever), I'm unsure if we'll be playing a book scenario or the basic scenario from the booklet, we're trying a wounds-balance system to see how that goes.

General: Slann Mage-priest - 7
Chakax - 7
10 Temple Guard w/ command - 10
20 Saurus Warriors w/spears & command - 20
Stegadon w/flame throwers - 10
Bastiladon w/solar engine - 8
2 Salamanders - 6
4 skink handlers - 4

Skink Patrol Batallion Warscroll
Skink Priest w/ trappings - 4
10 Skink Skirmishers w/pipes - 10
5 Chameleon skinks - 5
3 Ripperdactyl Riders - 9

Total - 100 wounds

rolly_321
17-09-2015, 10:27
Personally I would make room for a larger ripper squad. They are by far the most brutal monster cav in all of AoS. For example, while slamanders are also really good, if you drop them, there is literally nothing, not even the like of negash, that 6 rippers buffed by a priest and with blot toad can't alpha strike and completely wipe off the board in a single charge

Spiney Norman
17-09-2015, 12:22
Personally I would make room for a larger ripper squad. They are by far the most brutal monster cav in all of AoS. For example, while slamanders are also really good, if you drop them, there is literally nothing, not even the like of negash, that 6 rippers buffed by a priest and with blot toad can't alpha strike and completely wipe off the board in a single charge

Are we looking at the same warscroll? What makes rippers so good in your view? All their attacks inflict only a single damage with no rend.

Also I only have three rippers so that's not really an option

Aezeal
17-09-2015, 21:04
I must admit I know nothing about the Seraphon.. but I played against HE and certain HE special characters and I think you should stock up on mortal wound dealing things to ignore armor. 2+ rerollable saves are not fun when most troops only get 0 or 1 rend.

Spiney Norman
17-09-2015, 22:56
I must admit I know nothing about the Seraphon.. but I played against HE and certain HE special characters and I think you should stock up on mortal wound dealing things to ignore armor. 2+ rerollable saves are not fun when most troops only get 0 or 1 rend.

Holy moly, is there much of that kind of thing in the HE army? There is very little in the LM list that inflicts mortals

thesoundofmusica
18-09-2015, 07:44
I can only find save re-rolls on one unit which has a 5+ save to begin with. Doesnt sound like a huge deal. I could be wrong of course :


Are we looking at the same warscroll? What makes rippers so good in your view? All their attacks inflict only a single damage with no rend.

Also I only have three rippers so that's not really an option

With Toad rage, swooping dive and voracious appetite they get 7 attacks with reroll to hit and to wound on 6 of those attacks. Three attacks (vicious beak) also generate new attacks each time they land a hit. Yeah they still have no rend but can make a mess of low save units.

Spiney Norman
18-09-2015, 07:56
I can only find save re-rolls on one unit which has a 5+ save to begin with. Doesnt sound like a huge deal. I could be wrong of course :



With Toad rage, swooping dive and voracious appetite they get 7 attacks with reroll to hit and to wound on 6 of those attacks. Three attacks (vicious beak) also generate new attacks each time they land a hit. Yeah they still have no rend but can make a mess of low save units.

But correct me if I am wrong, the toad moves D6" a turn right? So every unit in the game can outrun it in a single turn of movement, so basically I drop the toad in the hero phase of the turn I am planning to charge and that's it, it's pretty much a one-use trick right?

thesoundofmusica
18-09-2015, 09:46
But correct me if I am wrong, the toad moves D6" a turn right? So every unit in the game can outrun it in a single turn of movement, so basically I drop the toad in the hero phase of the turn I am planning to charge and that's it, it's pretty much a one-use trick right?

Sure. Camp a toad near an objective to catch enemy units or use it to funnel enemy units where you want them or block passages with the threat of ripperdactyls charging. If it works, pretty good for a little marker :P

Aezeal
18-09-2015, 11:08
Holy moly, is there much of that kind of thing in the HE army? There is very little in the LM list that inflicts mortals

I checked: it's a bit less dramatic. Tyrion has a 3+ rerollable which ignores a rend 1 (so rend 1 = rend 0 but rend 2 is still rend 2). But combined with a mage that cast mystic shield it's a 2+ rerollable which is what I remember
Also: Lore master of Hoeth boosts character kinda strongly: reroll to hit and to wound on a single models.

Tyrion boosted by these 2 spells did wreck my strong monsters in the most important battle when I played against him.


The dragon princes and silver helms have a 4+ but reroll 1 in combat and reroll 1 and 2 vs shooting.

And the boltthrower deals reliable and long ranged damage.

rolly_321
21-09-2015, 03:46
The rippers can drop down turn two and will average 69 attacks and 50 wounds with their beaks alone... The save of whatever they attack really doesn't matter..

Or as stated earlier you can use the toad for area denial.

Also, it's not a one trick time. Any unit locked in combat isn't moving. With a fast army you can easily lock them in place and let the rippers delete a unit almost every turn.

Spiney Norman
21-09-2015, 13:21
I think my head might still be partly stuck in 8th edition but if I'm reading this right I can drop my toad during any of my hero phases right? Not necessarily at the start of the game?

Spiney Norman
22-09-2015, 23:34
Ok, I made a couple of changes to my final list, I dropped the steg and one of the sallies for a Carnosaur

The game was ok, and the armies did feel about evenly matched, we played for 3 hrs 30 mins and only managed to reach the end of battle round three, lesson learned - play smaller games.

Something I have realised bugs me about AoS, the to hit/to wound method actually takes me longer to process than the old WS comparison system, because I had the table memorised and I could easily work out my hit values on the fly. With AoS you have to open up every warscroll one at a time to check the hit/wound values for each weapon, with many models carrying more than one and getting to attack with each (it also means you're making 2-3 sets of rolls for each model attacking rather than rolling all their attacks at once). To say that we were using about half the number of models you'd have in an average 2K wfb game, it took us around twice the length of time a game like that would last for.

Something I have decided, I hate Phoenix guard, he had a brick of 20 with teclis casting mystic shield on their every turn and a stack of archers and bolt throwers behind shooting up my forces as they tried in vain to cut through the PG tar pit. That unit held up a Carnosaur, three ripperdactyls, twenty saurus and three kroxigor (summoned) for two full battle rounds (4 rounds of combat) and there were still five left at the end of the game.

The result was called at the end of found 3, a minor victory to the high elves, lizardmen 51% casualties, high elves 46% casualties (and most of them caused by the Bastiladons solar beam attack, which is brutal).

Aezeal
23-09-2015, 14:28
It's not a problem of AoS but of you remembering old things and not new things :D

(ofc.. I have the same problem and a paperversion of the warscrolls helps, I'm editing my WE scrolls to fit more on a page to prevent me from carrying a whole book in loose papers).

Aezeal
23-09-2015, 14:29
And move pass the tarpit, if needed on 2 sides to get to the archers, then it can't catch both flankers.

hoggle76
23-09-2015, 14:34
had some very nasty encounters with the ark of sotek bastiladon, may be worth considering taking that sometime- those phoenix guard would feel that . chameleon skinks are pretty awesome too now.

Spiney Norman
23-09-2015, 15:17
It's not a problem of AoS but of you remembering old things and not new things :D

(ofc.. I have the same problem and a paperversion of the warscrolls helps, I'm editing my WE scrolls to fit more on a page to prevent me from carrying a whole book in loose papers).

In fairness there is a lot more to remember now than previously, especially since every weapon does something different depending which unit is carrying it, there is no standard 'halberds give +1 str' now, for example I used to be able to work out the save of any given model in my army in a couple of seconds by adding up the modifiers, now I have to dig out the scroll, everything is arbitrary rather than standardised which makes it much more difficult to remember.


had some very nasty encounters with the ark of sotek bastiladon, may be worth considering taking that sometime- those phoenix guard would feel that . chameleon skinks are pretty awesome too now.

I'm not convinced, PG still get a save vs mortal wounds you know, and the solar beam is utterly ruinous, on the first turn it evaporated a bolt thrower, killed a lion chariot on T2 and took out teclis on T3.

hoggle76
23-09-2015, 15:29
oh the guard do? ouch. that thing pretty much killed a considerable sized wood elf army of mine as they had all got close before realising what the ark did

thesoundofmusica
23-09-2015, 16:01
I think my head might still be partly stuck in 8th edition but if I'm reading this right I can drop my toad during any of my hero phases right? Not necessarily at the start of the game?

It says "first hero phase".

Spiney Norman
23-09-2015, 23:11
It says "first hero phase".

Another potentially stupid question, can I do this if my ripperdactyls are not on the table (because they are 'hidden in the clouds' as per the skink patrol batallion rules), or does the toad get dropped during the first hero phase after the ripperdactyls enter the game?

rolly_321
25-09-2015, 03:11
Toads go down first hero phase while your rippers are still in reserves.

If you could drop the toads the same turn you drop the rippers it would go from being very powerful to utterly game breaking.

Also, remember you get a toad for EACH unit of rippers and the toads work for any unit of rippers. So if you prefer, instead of one unit of 6 do two units of 3. This allows you two toad drops giving you greater coverage. However, only one unit of 3 benefits from the formation.

Azzaphox
02-06-2016, 22:12
Start a small battle with a few troop types until you have all the rules in your head