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WarsmithGarathor94
24-09-2015, 22:15
Hey guys I'm considering writing a short story but I need your help to atleast make this story fit with the canon lore
Basically my idea is this an imperial world which has a important artefact on it comes under attack by the Tyranids. As they are beginning to take the world The Grey Knights turn up due to this being the kind of artefact which could potentially cause a Daemonic incursion or create a warpstorm. As the Grey Knights are fighting the Tyranids on the world they find themselves slowly being whittled down to the point where failure is very likely. All of a sudden out of the warp comes a battle barge full of chaos marines. Even though they hate the Grey Knights they need them to succeed as their chief sorceror has forseen if this world ad the artefact falls into tyranid control the entire galaxy will be in a even worse state. Could you see the Grey Knights accepting the chaos marines help rather grudgingly not liking the fact they need to but knowing that it would prevent a Daemonic incursion which could cut a large part of the imperium off from the rest

DeeKay
24-09-2015, 23:35
This has the problem that the Matt Ward fluff had in the old BA codex. Blood Angels siding with Necrons to fight against Tyranids was wierd enough given the xenophobic nature of Imperial forces, having forces that dedicate their lives to destroying daemons accepting help from those who serve daemons would have much the same effect.

A more plausible variation is that everyone has a different agenda and works to put that agenda into motion. For example, the Grey Knights have arrived on this world hoping to secure/destroy/purify a rumoured warp artifact before the Tyranids destroy the world. Unbeknownst to both forces, a Chaos warband uses the confusion on the world to mask their own presence. Whether they know about the artifact or not is unimportant. However, the Chaos forces underestimate the power of the Tyranids and are forced into a guerilla war against the xenos. The warband leader quickly forms a plan to lure concentrations of Tyranid forces into the guns of the Grey Knights, picking off targets of opportunity as they can. The Grey Knights now find themselves fighting against Chaos and Tyranid forces whilst the xenos are powerful enough to fight across two fronts. All the while, the Grey Knights update the Inquisition on their status, and soon the threat of Exterminatus comes ever closer...

TL,DR: Don't try to lump two conflicting interests against a bigger threat, it just seems like a comic book gimick. If you give each side a reason of their own to be there, it will flow more naturally.

With regards,
Dan.

TheSaylesMan
25-09-2015, 01:08
How does a single ship manage to run the incredibly huge number of Tyranid organisms in-orbit to get the surface in the first place? Chaos Space Marines or not, one ship isn't doing anything against an entire Tyranid fleet with the intent to consume a world. Even if they did get to the surface, why would they help? What do they care about the state of the galaxy? Wouldn't they just try to do what they set out to do and avoid the Grey Knights entirely? The Grey Knights ever run into them they will start killing them. No questions asked. There's no quarter for Chaos and there's no reason to let Chaos free to pursue its agendas.

Razios
25-09-2015, 04:25
This has the problem that the Matt Ward fluff had in the old BA codex. Blood Angels siding with Necrons to fight against Tyranids was wierd enough given the xenophobic nature of Imperial forces, having forces that dedicate their lives to destroying daemons accepting help from those who serve daemons would have much the same effect.


Actually the problem with that piece of fluff is delivery and moment: is clear the idea was that necrons and blood angel are overwhelm with tyranids and for a moment they fight that part and them having little force to fight...but in the end Dante said it is deshonrable to atack somehoe who helpt them, Also this come BEFORE the Necron retcon of 5ed so the crons where still the "silent deathless machine of genocide"

But anyway, this is my idea: inside the temple with the artifact there is dark age tech who can channel the warp and is what atract the Tyranids to the planet, the chaos marine learn about that and want to use it to turn the planet into a deamon world, so the greay knight have to do something...now

see? easy

daveNYC
25-09-2015, 14:20
GK aren't going to work with chaos, it just isn't going to happen. Best you could do is have the CSM working in some way to support the GK in order to further their own ends.

A guerilla war against Tyranids isn't going to fly either. If you're at the point where you're hiding in the hills and conducting hit and run raids (against what exactly? Tyranids don't have bases, patrols, or outposts, and capillary towers are stupid huge to try and take out) the Tyranids have probably moved into the 'harvest all resources' stage of the invasion and you're screwed.

Figure out exactly what the artifact does and why the CSM definitely don't want the Tyranids to get a hold of it or near it.

Formerly Wu
25-09-2015, 14:33
What reason do the Grey Knights have for not just saying "nah, you're lying. We'll not serve your schemes. In fact, since now our cause is probably lost anyway, we'll just do our best to hold you down here while we all wait for Exterminatus."

WarsmithGarathor94
25-09-2015, 16:40
Cheers for the responses guys
The thing is the chaos marines don't know about the artefact or atleast none of them but the sorceror does however he would rather see the Knights get their hands on it than the Tyranids.
Formerlywu while I do agree I'd also assume the Grey Knights are atleast smart enough to realise the Tyranids are a major threat to everyone and so a temporary truce may be in order atleast to push back the Tyranids threat. Of course neither side actually trusts each other and the sorceror may have other plans

Jack of Blades
25-09-2015, 18:55
First some logistical questions.

- Is the artifact mobile? if it is, the Grey Knights would not be "slowly whittled down" - they would extract it and leave.

- Is the artifact immobile? then the fact that the Grey Knights aren't a garrison force comes into play, they wouldn't get sent in to hold it and die until help arrives but to reclaim it as the spearhead of a massive fleet. They would be there as part of a strong Imperial response, because that's the minimum of what merits their attention. This force would be assembled according to what was judged needed for victory, eliminating what "pragmatic" reasons the Grey Knights had for accepting the help of Chaos marines.

Even if the Grey Knights know they will lose they would not compare that to working with agents of Chaos, they would never think such a thing in the first place. If they can't destroy all of their enemies then they adopt Imperial protocol in response to such a situation - pull back and re-enter the fight with more resources if they will currently be overwhelmed or fight while more resources arrive until victory is secured, orbital bombardment (if the Imperial Navy can gain an advantage in space), or a planet-destroying exterminatus. If any one or any thing caught the slightest glimpse of the Grey Knights not destroying on contact, let alone accepting help from agents of the Dark Gods, it would be seen as the most direct and appalling of heresies most of all by the Grey Knights themselves.

Orks and Eldar both have plausibility for temporary co-operation under different reasons (Orks think the Tyranids are more fun to fight and the Grey Knights leave them alone while they do so, Eldar and Grey Knights very tensely co-operate at points when absolutely necessary to prevent a climactic catastrophe for them both like a world falling to Chaos). But Chaos is the designated antithesis of the Imperium, and the Grey Knights represent the clearest living representation of that. They would under no circumstances do anything less than strive to completely eliminate the most faint of Chaos taint and destroy the soul of every one of the Dark Gods' agents.

Lord Damocles
25-09-2015, 19:57
...Also this come BEFORE the Necron retcon of 5ed so the crons where still the "silent deathless machine of genocide"
Which hadn't been a thing for the best part of a decade (ever, really...), but lets not let that get in the way of anything... :shifty:

Theocracity
25-09-2015, 21:57
Honestly I think the Grey Knights "teaming up with" the Tyranids against Chaos would be slightly more likely. They exploit the Shadow in the Warp to inhibit sorcery, or use some arcane artifact to misdirect Nids in a direction, or cover themselves in Nid guts and harmonize their minds so they blend in (???). Some sort of appropriately over the top heroic nonsense. The point is that the GK are Imperium's bespoke Chaos-fighting force, and thus would view even an incredibly dangerous xenos like the Tyranid as less important to their work than allowing an opening for the Great Betrayer to corrupt themselves or others.

If you're dead set on figuring out a GK / Chaos alliance, the only way I can see it working is if Chaos inhabits a 'malevolent trickster' role. The GK don't want or accept any aid the Chaos forces provide them, and in fact actively strike back against Chaos whenever they show their face, but the Chaos forces always stay one step ahead and keep out of their reach while "helping" the GK defeat the Tyranid (and furthering their own goals in the process). Would be a decent role for a Tzeentch-themed warband interested in literally playing with fire.

Razios
26-09-2015, 16:09
Which hadn't been a thing for the best part of a decade (ever, really...), but lets not let that get in the way of anything... :shifty:

But that is the tone used by pre-retcon crons dosent it? the deathless machine who comit genocide for their star gods, it was the spirit present about it

WarsmithGarathor94
04-10-2015, 10:33
Well my thinking is it wouldn't be a true alliance as such it would more be a case of they both recognise the threat the Tyranids are

The artefact I'm thinking would be the type of thing which if destroyed or heavily damaged could cause a potentially big warpstorm

Zywus
04-10-2015, 10:59
Could you see the Grey Knights accepting the chaos marines help rather grudgingly not liking the fact they need to but knowing that it would prevent a Daemonic incursion which could cut a large part of the imperium off from the restShort answer, No.

I could see the Grey knights not going out of their way to attack the Chaos Marines as long as the Grry knights are beset by tyranids. There would hardly be any cooperation with chaos coming from their side.

A.T.
04-10-2015, 13:50
Well my thinking is it wouldn't be a true alliance as such it would more be a case of they both recognise the threat the Tyranids are

The artefact I'm thinking would be the type of thing which if destroyed or heavily damaged could cause a potentially big warpstormIt seems unlikely that the grey knights would ever consider the forces of chaos to be a lesser threat than the tyranids - after all whatever they want with the artefact would be in the interests of the arch-enemy, whereas the nids are merely an invasive xenos species.

A more likely reaction by the grey knights would be to try and form an 'alliance' with the tyranids against the chaos, or at very least somehow try to impart the dangers of the artefact to the hive as they are the two forces who have the shared interst of not creating a warp storm.

Alternatively some kind of desperate rearguard action to buy time for the librarians to contain the inevitable storm in an attempt to use it to wipe out a large number of xenos/chaos forces without creating a portal that daemons might use to enter realspace.

In terms of grudging help though, I could see a dreadknight using a chaos marine as an improvised bludgeoning weapon...

=Angel=
07-10-2015, 09:30
The Chaos Space Marines are relatively uncorrupted Alpha Legion calling themselves 'Heirs of Ultramar'
220987
The Grey Knights accept the help of a loyalist chapter as they do not immediately sense taint.
The gradual awakening of the Grey Knight suspicions and the ulterior motives/manipulation of the Alphas provide drama and story.

Okuto
10-10-2015, 13:17
In short.....No

Grey Knights don't work with chaos period, no amount of fluff bending will make that make sense......

Regular space marines hardly put any weight in eldar visions, what weight do you think grey knights would be in chaos visions.....very little

If anything the grey knights would go out of their way to kill the chaos marines and try to direct the Nids to do the same. Chaos is on the top of humanity's kill list, xenos a close second;)

Major Richard Sharpe
10-10-2015, 22:17
The Chaos Space Marines are relatively uncorrupted Alpha Legion calling themselves 'Heirs of Ultramar'
220987
The Grey Knights accept the help of a loyalist chapter as they do not immediately sense taint.
The gradual awakening of the Grey Knight suspicions and the ulterior motives/manipulation of the Alphas provide drama and story.

That's actually a really cool Alpha Legion theme to be honest. Love those Alphas disguised as Ultras.

=Angel=
11-10-2015, 11:21
That's actually a really cool Alpha Legion theme to be honest. Love those Alphas disguised as Ultras.

And it illustrates perfectly what they can do. This is canon, they did this to the ultras during the battle where alpharius was supposedly killed by rowboat.

Anima
11-10-2015, 14:47
Hey guys I'm considering writing a short story but I need your help to atleast make this story fit with the canon lore
Basically my idea is this an imperial world which has a important artefact on it comes under attack by the Tyranids. As they are beginning to take the world The Grey Knights turn up due to this being the kind of artefact which could potentially cause a Daemonic incursion or create a warpstorm. As the Grey Knights are fighting the Tyranids on the world they find themselves slowly being whittled down to the point where failure is very likely. All of a sudden out of the warp comes a battle barge full of chaos marines. Even though they hate the Grey Knights they need them to succeed as their chief sorceror has forseen if this world ad the artefact falls into tyranid control the entire galaxy will be in a even worse state. Could you see the Grey Knights accepting the chaos marines help rather grudgingly not liking the fact they need to but knowing that it would prevent a Daemonic incursion which could cut a large part of the imperium off from the rest

Absolutely not, Chaos is the arch enemy and the Grey Knights will not fight by their side against a lesser evil like xenos.


Actually the problem with that piece of fluff is delivery and moment: is clear the idea was that necrons and blood angel are overwhelm with tyranids and for a moment they fight that part and them having little force to fight...but in the end Dante said it is deshonrable to atack somehoe who helpt them, Also this come BEFORE the Necron retcon of 5ed so the crons where still the "silent deathless machine of genocide"

But that is the tone used by pre-retcon crons dosent it? the deathless machine who comit genocide for their star gods, it was the spirit present about it

Nope, by then the Necrons had changed in the 5th edition rulebook. They weren't quite Newcrons by then, but were much changed from their 3e fluff.

bittick
12-10-2015, 15:54
The Blood Angel/Necron alliance appeared in the 5th ed Blood Angel codex. The "Newcron" codex came out within six months or a year of the BA one. I think it's pretty clear that when they were writing the Blood Angel book, they already knew which direction they were going with Necrons. It surprised a lot of people and drew a lot of flak, but that's mainly a publishing timeline problem. People didn't know about the coming changes. Once the new book came out, things made a lot more sense.

I don't see Grey Knights ever willingly allying themselves with Chaos, even against Tyranids. They'd more likely turn and attack the Chaos forces immediately, even if it meant their own deaths. You'd need a really good reason for them not to. Actually, you'd need a reason for them to be trying to hold a position by themselves, instead of relying on other imperial forces. They shouldn't be the main force against the Tyranids. It should be "huge IG army fights Nids, Grey Knights guard this one temple where the thingamabob is while they do the ceremony thingy". I don't see that as giving them a lot of opportunity to encounter the Chaos forces.

Keep
18-10-2015, 11:32
Beeing swarmed by tyranids and encountering the arch enemy, for the greyknights just another enemy appeared on the field to be fired upon. Going down fighting against the swarm AND the arch enemy is glorious.

Perth
19-10-2015, 23:34
Personally I think if the Grey Knights even thought for a second a Chaos Warband was on the planet (one with a big-shot sorcerer no less), they'd actually stop shooting at the Nids to make sure they had plenty of ammo for the heretics.

Horus38
19-10-2015, 23:48
Beeing swarmed by tyranids and encountering the arch enemy, for the greyknights just another enemy appeared on the field to be fired upon. Going down fighting against the swarm AND the arch enemy is glorious.

Sure is, that's why Black Library already has you covered!! :p

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/dread-night-ebook.html