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Herkamer63
28-09-2015, 02:01
With anticipation, Tau is looking to be a fairly decent release. New fire warriors, commander, and a LoW? Plenty of reason to be excited for the new release. Looking ahead, however, is a bit hazy.

With the Skarbrand release, it really makes me wonder as to what is coming: CSM or more AoS. It's really hard to say because the rumors coming out both sound fairly convincing, although I'm taking a wait and see approach with CSM. I wouldn't be surprised, or mind for that matter, to see AoS Maybe this can lead up to another CSM release if they put out more Chaos models and warscrolls.

Now, the deal with HH. Everyone has seen the pictures, so I would imagine it'll be anytime now. The bigger question is what else will be released along with the older armor? All I can say is don't expect any warhounds or decked out land raiders like the Spartan to come out with as part of this release. I will say this, it would be awesome to see the imperial army (solar auxilla, is that how you spell it) come out with this release. Either way, I think GW could on the brink of their biggest and, possibly, most successful release yet. Until then, I can't say when it's coming.

Well I'm signing off for now. Let us know what you think could be coming. There's 3 things for sure, but let it be anything.

Wolf Lord Balrog
28-09-2015, 05:19
The only thing I'm looking forward to after the new Tau is a new edition of the rules. Hopefully one that brings the game a little closer to its roots as a skirmish battle game, rather than 28mm-scale Epic. I know, a foolish dream, but one can hope.

Spleendokta
29-09-2015, 03:36
I'm with you Wolf. I just cant get into mini titans and apoc tanks in a 1850pt game. So far, 30k is keeping the BS in check, but with them about to release a new 30k... well prepare for the %$#* storm.

Killgore
29-09-2015, 08:06
I'm with you Wolf. I just cant get into mini titans and apoc tanks in a 1850pt game. So far, 30k is keeping the BS in check, but with them about to release a new 30k... well prepare for the %$#* storm.


Or you could agree pregame not to use Lords of war.


I'm expecting more non power armour books for 40k, as 30k will have enough marines to flood the market for those wanting 30k and 40k models

Snake Tortoise
29-09-2015, 08:32
CSM really need a new codex. IIRC theirs came out at the start of 6th edition while tyranids were right at the end of 6th, and tyranid have had a lot of attention with formations and model releases unlike CSM

It's hard to predict GW though :p. We might get a codex supplement instead. Something bizarre that nobody sees coming, like a faction of dark eldar or something equally unusual.

Karhedron
29-09-2015, 10:03
My guess is that 30K will come out around November time to catch the Christmas sales. There aren't too many lists left that haven't had the 7th edition treatment yet but CSM are definitely one of them. The other option is we may see more daemonkin for Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle.

Or since Harlequins and AM have finally got codices, we might even see SOB. :rolleyes:

toonboy78
29-09-2015, 10:55
the remaining 6th edition are:

imp guard
nids
daemons
chaos space marines

there are a few other "half" codices such as inq, and the scions

nids seem a an easy update as they have had a lot of new releases and formations so it would only need some objectives, psychic powers and a codex, maybe a combined pyrovore and biovore model

guard could also be a simplish update, could be like grey nights with a bit of repackaging

daemons and chaos marines have been complicated by khorne dameonkin and there for the possibility of other daemonkin books

we could hit a point where all books are at the correct edition. would it be the first time since 2nd?

A.T.
29-09-2015, 11:15
we could hit a point where all books are at the correct edition. would it be the first time since 2nd?3rd edition had everything - starting with marines in 1998 and ending with sisters in 2004.

Nids do have a lot of new-ish material that needs to be merged into their book at some point, csms are just old. Scions may become become redundant with a new IG book - wonder if they'll finally put the baneblade in it, the thing is pretty unremarkable compared to many of the new toys being handed around.

And finally the sisters and inquisition are essentially 5th edition chapter approved articles with warlord charts tacked on and barely any model support. Both pretty much dead at this point.

AFnord
29-09-2015, 14:54
we could hit a point where all books are at the correct edition. would it be the first time since 2nd?

2nd edition lacked Squats, a book that was originally planed for it. As A.T. pointed out, 3rd edition was the only "complete" edition. All armies that were originally planned for it (+1 with Tau?) got a release.

wyvirn
29-09-2015, 17:08
I saw a photo of the 'new' synapse rule from Faiet that gives FNP to everyone in the bubble and EW for the synapse creatures.
I don't believe it because it's too good, the font is slightly different, and when was the last time rules proved genuine before the model was revealed?


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sturguard
30-09-2015, 00:54
the remaining 6th edition are:

imp guard
nids
daemons
chaos space marines

there are a few other "half" codices such as inq, and the scions

nids seem a an easy update as they have had a lot of new releases and formations so it would only need some objectives, psychic powers and a codex, maybe a combined pyrovore and biovore model

guard could also be a simplish update, could be like grey nights with a bit of repackaging

daemons and chaos marines have been complicated by khorne dameonkin and there for the possibility of other daemonkin books

we could hit a point where all books are at the correct edition. would it be the first time since 2nd?

You could add Space Wolves to that list. The came right after Nids I believe and then the true 7th edition codexes were released. SW players got Codex:Thunderwolves. I sure hope they release a new one for us to put us at a level close to SM/Dark Angel, Eldar, Cron, Daemonkin and what is sure to be Tau. Sorry for the rate, but the SW book is so bad, not only that but they got us for 2 crappy codexes with Champions of Fenris.

Herkamer63
30-09-2015, 01:27
I saw a photo of the 'new' synapse rule from Faiet that gives FNP to everyone in the bubble and EW for the synapse creatures.
I don't believe it because it's too good, the font is slightly different, and when was the last time rules proved genuine before the model was revealed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To a degree, that's the way synapse should work. I would be ok with 6+ FNP, but EW? I'd say that's a bit too much, because monstrous creatures are almost unstoppable. Synapse creatures, I think, should be psykers (at least individual models should be, but squads should have brotherhood of psykers-esque rules). I'd also include, on some of them, inv saves, depending on the model like the Hive tyrant has a 5++ or zoanthropes 3++. There are many things that nids need fixed, but as much as I'd like to go over it, it'll take too long. We'll leave at that, but Nids would definitely be something to look forward to if done right. If you'd like to talk about it, by all means. I'd love to have a discussion about those cute, cuddly, bugs.

Wolf Lord Balrog
30-09-2015, 01:32
You could add Space Wolves to that list. The came right after Nids I believe and then the true 7th edition codexes were released. SW players got Codex:Thunderwolves. I sure hope they release a new one for us to put us at a level close to SM/Dark Angel, Eldar, Cron, Daemonkin and what is sure to be Tau. Sorry for the rate, but the SW book is so bad, not only that but they got us for 2 crappy codexes with Champions of Fenris.

^^ This. Though I will be mollified for a while if the Tau codex is good, as they are my second army.

A.T.
30-09-2015, 09:31
To a degree, that's the way synapse should work. I would be ok with 6+ FNP, but EW?Eternal warrior is a desire/fandex feature of many long time nid players as it was a synapse benefit back in 4th edition.

It was replaced in 5th edition by an extra wound on the medium sized nids (warriors/lictors/raveners) making them tougher against small arms but 5e was also the edition of missile/S8 spam and codex:force weapons.

Charistoph
30-09-2015, 16:17
You could add Space Wolves to that list. The came right after Nids I believe and then the true 7th edition codexes were released. SW players got Codex:Thunderwolves. I sure hope they release a new one for us to put us at a level close to SM/Dark Angel, Eldar, Cron, Daemonkin and what is sure to be Tau. Sorry for the rate, but the SW book is so bad, not only that but they got us for 2 crappy codexes with Champions of Fenris.

They came out after Orks last year. They have Logan Grimnar as a Lord of War and with the Chariot option. They are barely a year old now. The only thing they need is a Strike Force detachment, really.

Okuto
30-09-2015, 16:46
My kingdom for a CSM codex


nuff said

But I'll take a new Tau dex, doesn't hurt as I play them too.

A.T.
30-09-2015, 16:54
The state of the game for reference - CSMs coming up on 3 years

Tau Empire - Soon
Dark Angels -June 2015
Space Marines - June 2015
Eldar - April 2015
Necrons - January 2015
Blood Angels - December 2014
Dark Eldar- October 2014
Grey Knights - August 2014 - (the big inquisition cull)
Space Wolves - August 2014
Orks - June 2014
--6th--
Guard - April 2014 - (and tempestus)
Tyranids - January 2014 - later updated with new units
Daemons - March 2013
Chaos Marines - October 2012
--Obsolete--
Sisters - October 2013 - a substantial, but shallow, digital only update of the 2011 white dwarf article
Inquisition - November 2013 - a mix of rules from the 2011 Grey Knights, 2009 Guard, and 2008 Marines

SuperHappyTime
30-09-2015, 21:23
The state of the game for reference - CSMs coming up on 3 years

Brets went 10+ years. :rolleyes:

There's nothing to say CSM and Daemons aren't going to turn into four Daemonkin books.

murgel2006
01-10-2015, 01:39
There's nothing to say CSM and Daemons aren't going to turn into four Daemonkin books.

Which I would like very much.

I do also feel strongly that we should be getting the "remaining" codixes soon. Not only to have a complete edition but also because I feel 7th could live for quite some time IF Gw would FAQ or even better do Updates via pdf. (I know, I know!)
Still, AOS shows that GW might go ahead and include the rules for the models in their packing. This would make it possible for the edition to extend it's life to quite more than 4 years. Frankly one FAQ/update for the BRB would do the trick. Also one pdf of corrections to the "older" 7th ed codixes (scout-, dreadnought-, etc. stat lines)....

insectum7
01-10-2015, 03:11
Brets went 10+ years. :rolleyes:

There's nothing to say CSM and Daemons aren't going to turn into four Daemonkin books.

That would be really weird, as the Khorne Deamonkin is about a subset of Khorne affiliated followers. If it went to pure daemonking-style books, there'd be no Abbadon, legions, or other renegades.

MajorWesJanson
01-10-2015, 03:19
That would be really weird, as the Khorne Deamonkin is about a subset of Khorne affiliated followers. If it went to pure daemonking-style books, there'd be no Abbadon, legions, or other renegades.

They could do a book for each god with the associated chaos legions then do a fifth undivided csm book that covers undivided and renegades.

Charistoph
01-10-2015, 06:43
That would be really weird, as the Khorne Deamonkin is about a subset of Khorne affiliated followers. If it went to pure daemonking-style books, there'd be no Abbadon, legions, or other renegades.

Or they could:

They could do a book for each god with the associated chaos legions then do a fifth undivided csm book that covers undivided and renegades.

This is more likely, I think. Though considering the past, it wouldn't surprise me if only Khorne and Nurgle received Daemonkin books. Tzeentch and Slaanesh always seem to be after thoughts for Games Workshop, both Citadel and Forgeworld.

WarsmithGarathor94
01-10-2015, 10:49
They could do a book for each god with the associated chaos legions then do a fifth undivided csm book that covers undivided and renegades.

Or they could just give us a massive tome style codex which includes LaTD daemons and csm (both renegade and legions)

nosebiter
01-10-2015, 13:52
The only thing I'm looking forward to after the new Tau is a new edition of the rules. Hopefully one that brings the game a little closer to its roots as a skirmish battle game, rather than 28mm-scale Epic. I know, a foolish dream, but one can hope.

When a new 40 rules set rolls around, you can bet they will go the AoS way.

Bonzai
03-10-2015, 07:31
I have a feeling that Nids will be updated before to long. They will put in the new units, create a true Decurion style detachment, and there have been rumors about a plastic Dominitrix and gene steeler cult mini dex. My hope is that the Dominitrix becomes the Nids knight class Titan, which is needed. Something in the 275-350 point range and a GC. Most other factions have their big plastic kits, Nids need theirs.

Plus a gene stealer cult mini dex would give Nids their first true allies.

This would put them in line with the new 7th dex'es.

MajorWesJanson
03-10-2015, 08:59
Genestealer cult first, as a mini-faction, then Nids later, pullin Genestealers out of the book.

Nids already have a ton of big creatures, which is their problem. They have a bunch that are kind of pointless. All the bi critters:
Toxocrine- Poison critter
Haruspex- giant eater
Maleceptor- terrible psychic critter
Exocrine- living artillery
Tervigon- Spawner
Tyrannofex- gun tank
Trygon- Tunneller
Mawloc- Tunneller that eats things.

They really need to make all of those more distinct and viable. Exocrine should be slow, long range barrage, while the tyrannofex is better armored and short range- basilisk vs demolisher
Maleceptor shouldn't be a psychic critter as much as a hive mind node and buff-giver like the old Tervigon did
Toxocrine should be a debuffer of sorts
Haruspex needs a rework.

For GCs, there should be a dual-kit. Dominatrix that is like a GC Hive Tyrant, and Heriodule that is a GC version of the Carnifex.

Mack
03-10-2015, 13:47
I hope we don't see a new edition of rules anytime soon. Let GW get all armies codex up to date before starting this crap all over again.

That said, CSM needs a new dex badly, and this time I hope they make them worthy. I would love to see daemonkin books for all the chaos gods in place of a daemons codex, but that would screw existing daemon players...

stonehorse
06-10-2015, 02:08
I'd like to see a Tyranid Codex that isn't Codex Flying Hive Tyrants armed with 2 sets of Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leech Worms.

Goes to show how bad that Codex is when that one model is spammed so much, come to think of it I think the Codex should just be renamed Codex Devourers. And this is coming from a long time Tyranid player (2nd edition)... the internal balance of the Codex, and the releases since are quite frankly a joke.

Dreadknight
06-10-2015, 09:56
I agree that CSM and Guard should get an update.

On the other hand, I would also like a new GK codex (Yes, I'm a GK player). I know that the latest codex of GK came out about 1 year ago, but the only usuable units there are the Dreadknights and the librarians. It also has no formations at all, and taking out the inquisition and not adding other unit entries really made it an easy job for GW. I really hope they merge the Inquisition and GK back into 1 codex again anytime soon.

Losing Command
06-10-2015, 10:58
... GK codex ... It also has no formations at all ...

Excuse me, but there in fact IS a formation in the GK codex ! Admittedly it starts at 2045 points, and you'd need about 1000 points on upgrades to make it anywhere near viable, but it is in there :p

arkle
06-10-2015, 11:16
A chaos marines release just to bring their plastics up to date. Specifically new havocs and dreadnought kit, but would love to see legion tactical squad similar to the blood angles etc or failing that at least the plastic upgrade pack

Dreadknight
06-10-2015, 11:32
That formation sucks so hard, I don't count it as a formation!:mad:
As for the CSM dreadnought, I think the hellbrute is exactly what that is. I don't see any other new dreadnought model coming for CSM. I agree on the marine part. A basic set for unmarked marines, and upgrade set for each god would be a nice thing (and inline with the loyalist line).

Herkamer63
08-10-2015, 14:56
I'd expect a CSM legion codex after the daemonkin codices. Of course, there is always a chance of individual legion books, but let's not get too far ahead. I could also see a CSM undivided codex (no legions in this one either) come out after the daemonkin codices are done. If they do a legions codex, I would hope it would be similar in fashion to C:SM (just a wishlisting of mine).

Inquisitor Kallus
08-10-2015, 17:34
I hope we don't see a new edition of rules anytime soon. Let GW get all armies codex up to date before starting this crap all over again.

That said, CSM needs a new dex badly, and this time I hope they make them worthy. I would love to see daemonkin books for all the chaos gods in place of a daemons codex, but that would screw existing daemon players...

Indeed, Chaos shoukd be an ever present and potentially powerful threat (from chaotic renegades and cultists going to full Black Crusade-esque incursions)

Wesser
09-10-2015, 07:17
I wish I wish I wish that each and every LoW would crash and burn and kill their creators by meteorstrike to the balls..

Already the Riptide looked out of place.. and now we need something bigger?


I long for the day when a Monolith was a big centerpiece and when your main worry was if you could realistically kill a Land Raider if your opponent brought one. Now 40k is a mess devoid of tactics and anything approaching balance.


What did fliers, LoW, allies and formations bring to the game at the end of the day? Extreme armies, confusing subset rules to keep track off (which of those unit was part of that formation and which use those special holiday FW rules?) and games that was decided before anyone touched a miniature. Who asked for any of this!!?

They might as well bring about the Age of Skarbrand, where Skarbrand eats the Emperor and turns good only to anyway destroy the universe and populate it with Fishmen/Space Marines hybrids which are only seen in the fluff because the actual game is only played between Greater Daemons and huge robots fighting in burned worlds with portals which all leads into the same dusty shelf in my basement of horror...

Rogue Star
09-10-2015, 08:34
A chaos marines release just to bring their plastics up to date. Specifically new havocs and dreadnought kit,

I think Helbrutes have replaced Chaos Dreadnoughts.

stonehorse
09-10-2015, 13:02
A chaos marines release just to bring their plastics up to date. Specifically new havocs and dreadnought kit, but would love to see legion tactical squad similar to the blood angles etc or failing that at least the plastic upgrade pack

This, the model range of Chaos Space Marines is all over the place, and looks weird. The Basic Space Marines could do with a new kit that has all the options, done in the style of the Chosen they produced for Dark Vengeance starter set. As Havocs, and Chosen share the same options the kit could easily fit these as well. Then the plastic/metal/resin hybrid Cult Marines need an overhaul, I think the Khorne Berzerkers are fine. So all in all 4 plastic kits would I think solve all the current needs of the Chaos Space Marine codex, hopefully we will see some replacement kits when their new book comes out soon.


I wish I wish I wish that each and every LoW would crash and burn and kill their creators by meteorstrike to the balls..

Already the Riptide looked out of place.. and now we need something bigger?


I long for the day when a Monolith was a big centerpiece and when your main worry was if you could realistically kill a Land Raider if your opponent brought one. Now 40k is a mess devoid of tactics and anything approaching balance.


What did fliers, LoW, allies and formations bring to the game at the end of the day? Extreme armies, confusing subset rules to keep track off (which of those unit was part of that formation and which use those special holiday FW rules?) and games that was decided before anyone touched a miniature. Who asked for any of this!!?

They might as well bring about the Age of Skarbrand, where Skarbrand eats the Emperor and turns good only to anyway destroy the universe and populate it with Fishmen/Space Marines hybrids which are only seen in the fluff because the actual game is only played between Greater Daemons and huge robots fighting in burned worlds with portals which all leads into the same dusty shelf in my basement of horror...

Indeed, the current 40K is a pale shadow of it's former self. Gone are the days when you would encounter a few transport vehicles, backed up by at most 3 main battle vehicles. Now we have Knights and Gargantuan Creatures running amok, and allies to smooth over any failings of the Codex. For me 3rd and 4th edition were the high point of 40K, in terms of balance and visual look of the armies used.

All of this was done to sell models, pure and simple. Which is annoying as I understand the need to keep sales up, I just wish they had done it in a way that didn't break the game. Now that the genie is out of the lamp, there is no way for GW to go steer 40K back.

It will be interesting to see what 8th edition turns into, there are some rumours that they are going to apply the Age of Sigmar treatment to it, this I honestly can't see them doing, I think it would be a very bad business plan that sees their sales plummet. 40K, or namely Space Marines are their cash cow, they don't want to tamper with that, especially as things aren't too good for GW at the moment in time.

cuda1179
09-10-2015, 16:43
I just wish that the next edition of 40k has different "levels" of play. A single FOC as the "standard" way to play, with LOW, formations, allies, and fortifications be opponent's permission and agreed to before the game. Armies are supposed to have inbuilt weaknesses, and allies ruin that. Also, some of those formations make a game so lop-sided that one person is guaranteed to not have fun. They seem to just reward those with enough disposable income to buy the power build of the week.

I'm not totally trashing any of those options, but I do believe they should be OPTIONS. There is a place for everything, and small standard games are not it.

Dkoz
09-10-2015, 17:07
I just wish that the next edition of 40k has different "levels" of play. A single FOC as the "standard" way to play, with LOW, formations, allies, and fortifications be opponent's permission and agreed to before the game.

Those are still options that each player has to agree to before friendly games so you already have your wish there.

Wesser
09-10-2015, 19:41
Those are still options that each player has to agree to before friendly games so you already have your wish there.

The ancient argument.. Yawn. Its really not that easy to agree on...

Charistoph
09-10-2015, 21:33
The ancient argument.. Yawn. Its really not that easy to agree on...

No more difficult than getting people to try different levels of a game than different types of a game.

WarMaHordes has many different levels of the game, but try and get anyone locally to play anything but Steamroller that isn't new to the game. It's like pulling teeth.

When was the last time you saw a CityFight, PlanetStrike, or Battle Missions game being played in your store? 40K in 40 Minutes? Kill Team?

The levels are there, but getting others to use them is always the task involved.

Dark Elf
09-10-2015, 22:01
You guys will have to forgive me for lack of source, but I've read somewhere on the internet that the next thing to come will be a CSM codex. Is this something legitimate? IDK. Is it a trustful source? Idk. So unless we have someone else to confirm it, like H&H, take it with a salt mine.

wyvirn
09-10-2015, 22:18
Well I saw a picture of next weeks white dwarf, and there is a picture of a space marine with an Aquila for a face. Harry said a few months ago that there would be a tau / raven guard box set, so there's that. I think chaos was just a flash in the rumor pan.


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Wolf Lord Balrog
10-10-2015, 01:13
There is a Raven Guard campaign pack coming out right after the Tau releases, there is a picture of it in the Tau news and rumors discussion. So they are definitely what's next.

MajorWesJanson
10-10-2015, 01:41
We are looking at:
Oct 17 Ghostkeel
Oct 24 Fire Warriors + Tau Scenery + Damocles box sets
Oct 31 Crisis Suits + Codex? + cards?
Oct 7 Heresy box?

murgel2006
10-10-2015, 20:22
Indeed, the current 40K is a pale shadow of it's former self. Gone are the days when you would encounter a few transport vehicles, backed up by at most 3 main battle vehicles. Now we have Knights and Gargantuan Creatures running amok, and allies to smooth over any failings of the Codex. For me 3rd and 4th edition were the high point of 40K, in terms of balance and visual look of the armies used.

All of this was done to sell models, pure and simple. Which is annoying as I understand the need to keep sales up, I just wish they had done it in a way that didn't break the game. Now that the genie is out of the lamp, there is no way for GW to go steer 40K back.


There is another game which suffered from "updates" Battletech. They even tried a "modernized" rules set. And look at it now. Classic Battletech was it called a few years but now it's Battletech again and at least around me it is quite alive. Even with this example I'm not sure 40k could survive an "AoS" treatment. After all, Mechwarrior Dark age died fast and silent.

Could 40k go back to 4th? IMO no, it can not. 4th lacked many rules which came with 6th that were/are nice. besides, 4th is a long time ago now and even though I liked the rules very much they seem to be no favourite amongst players.
If that is so, then could there be levels? Frankly I think Levels are not going to come. There are types of games (Kill team etc.) which can be found but in a game based on points they have a hard time as one can simply play 1000 points etc.

I think scenario-, mission books and narrative campaign books could bring back some of the sanity to the army lists. And of course the good old talking, which is of course often hard to do.

Cynec
11-10-2015, 07:45
Late 3rd into 4th edition were the height of the game's popularity. This was the Eye of Terror Campaign, and a big expansion of 40k. The appeal was that while the core rules were relatively simple (there was no running, overwatch, challenges, hull points etc.) army specific rules were varied and customizeable. Different armies felt very different, and sub-lists were all over. You could play a Kult of Speed orc army, an Ulthwe Strike Force, an all infiltrating Alpha Legion cell or your own Space Marine chapter with its own traits. This gave different types of armies character, and made people attached to the specific structure and lore of their force. It also allowed lots of different on the table applications and quirks without (the vast majority, yes there were Siren princes) being overpowered.

Gargantuan creatures on the other hand, while relatively unique in that it's really just Eldar that have them, are overpowered. As are D-weapons. It's an either you have this toy or you are at a disadvantage arms race. GW don't seem to understand that they are selling not to children but to adult nerds. Sure you hook people as children, but few children have the disposable income of a 20, 30, or 40-something with a geeky hobby or passion. And adult nerds like depth, they like nuance, and they like options. Hell, even kids like it, I was a kid for 3rd edition and I loved buying Chapter Approved books and making little mini armies (because, again, I could not afford full ones) or weird stuff like Feral Orks and Cursed Founding marines, it was fun. Now it's just Gundams vs. Autobots. Thanks but no thanks.

shabbadoo
12-10-2015, 12:55
Disregarding Sisters of Battle, Chaos Space Marines is the force that is the most ripe for a new codex and massive wave of models. Next in line would be Orks. Other than that, greater daemons and Heralds in plastic. I think it is very likely we will see models for many of these in 2016. I could see myself getting dragged back into Chaos, if the range is well supported with plastic next time around (Havocs, Obliterators/Maulers, Cult Units, Legion/Renegade Upgrade Packs).

A.T.
12-10-2015, 13:18
Disregarding Sisters of Battle, Chaos Space Marines is the force that is the most ripe for a new codex and massive wave of models. Next in line would be Orks. Tyranids are in a somewhat odd position with the rules for a number of big kits not in the main codex - I could see GW wanting to address that with a codex release.

MajorWesJanson
13-10-2015, 00:22
Nids need a new book to fix their problems, add all the new units, and add in all their formations that are scattered around. Minimal model work needed at this point- Biovores/pyrovores and Lictors/Deathleaper are all that is left IIRC.

Orks have a 7th book, but need a better one- bring the formations from Ghazkull into the codex, make the Naut a superheavy walker, bring back some of the options, and plastic kits for the usual suspects- Tankbustas, kommandos, buggies, deffkoptas.

Chaos could benefit from some Daemonkin books for the other 3 gods- Slaanesh could cover the Keeper of Secrets, Fiends, Herald on seeker, and Noise Marines in plastic. Tzeentch would give a Lord of Change/Fateweaver, Rubric Marines, plastic herald on disc, and plastic CSM PA sorcerer. Nurgle has the GUO, Beasts, plague marines, and herald on palanquin. Add a light and heavy armor version of mortal troops for each god and they could dual release with Age of Sigmar. Maybe even some Lords of War, like a Silver Tower for Tzeentch, Hell Knight for Slaanesh, and Contagion Engine of some sort for Nurgle so each god has a Lord of War. And a mini wave for Khorne would let them update Berzerkers and come out with plastic Hounds.

IG/AM are in good shape model wise- just need a few characters, ratlings, roughriders, and psyker covens in plastic. Then formations, and bump the Deathstrike up to a Lord of War with a vortex warhead.

Eldar could use a model wave for some aspect warriors, and a new codex that tones them down somewhat.
Harlequins need a detachment that does not require you to fill most of the slots.

Sisters need everything.

Militarum Tempestus needs to just merge with Codex Inquisition. Maybe throw in the Assassins and Legion of the Damned and just make an "Agents of the Imperium" codex.

Kroot Mercs could use a book, and plastic models. Shaper/Master shaper, Hounds, Krootox, Knarloc riders, Great Knarloc.

Wolf Lord Balrog
13-10-2015, 00:52
Somebody may have mentioned this already, but us Space Wolves would like to play something other than Codex: Thunderwolves.

Inquisitor Kallus
13-10-2015, 01:25
Somebody may have mentioned this already, but us Space Wolves would like to play something other than Codex: Thunderwolves.

You can, its your choice whether or not to take them.


Agree with most of what you have said Major. Cant wait to see what the new year brings as well, as long as it isn't AOS 40k........

Killgore
13-10-2015, 07:21
I'm very surprised that there are no rumors about a Ork release.

Black library have commited themselves to releasing a major new book series featuring Orks which could generate some interest.

Wesser
13-10-2015, 07:24
Give us proper Codex CSM... not more Daemonkin nonsense.

Karhedron
13-10-2015, 09:34
I just wish that the next edition of 40k has different "levels" of play. A single FOC as the "standard" way to play, with LOW, formations, allies, and fortifications be opponent's permission and agreed to before the game.
Those are still options that each player has to agree to before friendly games so you already have your wish there.
The ancient argument.. Yawn. Its really not that easy to agree on...

Why not? Our local gaming club considered introducing "house rules" whereby standard games would just be a basic CAD and everything else would require opponent's consent.

In the end we have not bothered as everyone is sufficiently sensible to agree what they want to play before hand. This week I am running a plain CAD with m Eldar. Last time I ran a Wraithhost formation against a full-on Necron Decurion. It only takes 2 minutes when arranging a game to agree what "level" you want to play at. For anyone who games at a regular club, I don't see this being a problem.

The only time it might be an issue is turning up "cold" to a new venue and not knowing what the expectations are. Having formal "levels" would not help in this case since you would not know what level the venue used by default so it is a moot point. If in doubt, write a couple of different lists and choose what to play once you have arrived.

shabbadoo
13-10-2015, 10:28
Tyranids are in a somewhat odd position with the rules for a number of big kits not in the main codex - I could see GW wanting to address that with a codex release.
While true, model-wise they are missing only a plastic clamshell Broodlord and a plastic combo-kit for Biovores/Pyrovores. While that would complete things, it would make for a rather weak release. Instead, GW should really make the move to providing rules online for models not in the codex until such a time that they can properly redo the codex, accompanied by the release of the aforementioned units and a better looking (i.e. re-designed) plastic Hierophant. :eek::cool:

Though Eldar also need a boatload of plastic kits, I left them out due to them having had a fairly recent (if anemic) release.

murgel2006
13-10-2015, 20:16
Eldar could use a model wave for some aspect warriors, and a new codex that tones them down somewhat.

Honestly, we had over a hundred pages of "discussion about the current Eldar being OP. And today that is effectively no longer a topic, at least around the people I know. They are considered good but OP in general no longer.
A New book would IMO be slightly early. :shifty:
Also it would most likely not fix the problems but create new ones deriving from the need to sell the new stuff.



Harlequins need a detachment that does not require you to fill most of the slots.

Agreed, that this would be nice. I could also live with a few (cheap) expansions with new smaller formations.



Sisters need everything.


This seems to become the 14th commandment for GW "Sisters of Battle shall never have an appropriate codex."

M'ichal
13-10-2015, 21:00
Disregarding Sisters of Battle, Chaos Space Marines is the force that is the most ripe for a new codex and massive wave of models. Next in line would be Orks. Other than that, greater daemons and Heralds in plastic. I think it is very likely we will see models for many of these in 2016. I could see myself getting dragged back into Chaos, if the range is well supported with plastic next time around (Havocs, Obliterators/Maulers, Cult Units, Legion/Renegade Upgrade Packs).

Man, Obliterators are such potential for awesome models based on the fluff...as artifact collectors they are totally under-represented right now.

Also, I'd like to see more Mechanicus. Then, awesome plastics for Sisters and some Inquisition dudes. And more upgrade packs for other chapters (Imp/Crim Fists, Salamanders etc.).

sturguard
13-10-2015, 21:58
You can, its your choice whether or not to take them.


Agree with most of what you have said Major. Cant wait to see what the new year brings as well, as long as it isn't AOS 40k........

And with that reasoning, Nids dont need an update either, they can just continue to play with dual Flyrants with devourers, and Orks are fine, they have the Green Tide... oh and why did Tau need another superheavy suit with the Riptide one of best units for points in the game?

Kallus, it is clear the books following GK have all been about the same level of play, and SW are not in that level- neither are Orks or Nids which were a few months before them. The Necron book was the first true 7th edition book. I would say it's okay for SW players to want a codex where more than one unit is viable in their current codex. If this isnt the case, why is it every single battle report on Youtube with SW has thunderwolves?

StrikeDeath
13-10-2015, 22:45
... why is it every single battle report on Youtube with SW has thunderwolves?
Because all they want to do is win and not play something else. Are you seriously complaining that you want the rest of your codex to be at that power-level because that's how it looks from where I'm sitting

Herkamer63
14-10-2015, 00:57
One thing I'm hoping gets done are the faqs/erratas. As much hate for what I'm take for saying this, it's time to update the older 7th ed Marine codices (GK, SW, and BA) with the current SM codices. They need to get the vehicle squadrons, wherever possible, and the decurion formation (well maybe) along with whatever they have already. I wouldn't mind seeing the Baal predators in squadrons, since they lost outflank. I would include other armies for sure in those updates, but those are the 3 that need it most (outside of Eldar).

AngryAngel
14-10-2015, 01:24
The only thing I'm looking forward to after the new Tau is a new edition of the rules. Hopefully one that brings the game a little closer to its roots as a skirmish battle game, rather than 28mm-scale Epic. I know, a foolish dream, but one can hope.

That is a dream that everyone will tread upon, the mini apoc is all that is left.


They came out after Orks last year. They have Logan Grimnar as a Lord of War and with the Chariot option. They are barely a year old now. The only thing they need is a Strike Force detachment, really.

?? Do you even play the codex ? Logan as a LoW is a total joke, with or without chariot. The codex as it is, is sub par, most of the units end up over costed and under performing, especially in contrast to the other most recently updated marine books. The only unit that ended up well from the book, and supplement, is Thunderwolves, hence why people call it codex Thunder wolf. While it may not be old, it was released overly nerfed before the dawn of the super powers. It hasn't aged well and will continue to age poorly, so is it a dire need ? Depends on if you play the army, but playing the army with no thunder wolves shows clearly why people are not pleased with it.

They lack the strike force detachement and the things with that, dread buffs they are missing as well as squads for them, the wolf guard are over costed, both types, though some set ups for TA versions come out alright, the wolf scouts are a joke and end up worse off then even vanilla scouts. Could go on and on, it was a nerfed book released for a different design path and it will only suffer more and more as it ages, it already isn't very good, up to and unless you love thunder wolves. If that doesn't hint to a bad book I don't know what does.

Charistoph
14-10-2015, 04:13
?? Do you even play the codex?

I seriously fail to see why that is vital determination when considering that the codex IS a year out and other codices have a stronger need of a codex.


Logan as a LoW is a total joke, with or without chariot.

I was using the fact that Logan was a Lord of War as evidence of release timing, not necessarily about the benefits of such a move.

Considering all the other Lords of War out there that have come out since then, Logan rocks. Sure, he's not an Imperial Knight or a Wraith Knight, but he's not the Storm Lord or Calgar, either. He's freaking LOGAN GRIMNAR, dude!


The codex as it is, is sub par, most of the units end up over costed and under performing, especially in contrast to the other most recently updated marine books.

And before those two recent codices came out, their codex was superior. At this point, it is closer to "par" than "sub-par" when you factor ALL the codices in play, and that includes Imperial Guard, Tyranids, and Chaos Marines. Sure, they are below what the current Marine codices produce, but then that has been the case with Marines in release order for such a long time.

Of course, you could just be grateful you still have a separate codex.


The only unit that ended up well from the book, and supplement, is Thunderwolves, hence why people call it codex Thunder wolf. While it may not be old, it was released overly nerfed before the dawn of the super powers.

Interesting... That's not what I saw anyone saying about it when it came out. I didn't see anyone saying that it was inferior to Blood Angels last December. I think that it is more that the changes for the codices last year just weren't changed as much we have seen with the Codex and DAngels.

And to be clear, stat-wise, very little has changed for most of the units released since 7th Edition. The number of stat changes has actually been quite minimal. Indeed, the changes to the Dreadnought's Attacks and Squadron Size is the largest change any unit has experienced.

What has had the largest impact has been the Wargear and Special Rule changes combined with the new Strike Force Formations


It hasn't aged well and will continue to age poorly, so is it a dire need ? Depends on if you play the army, but playing the army with no thunder wolves shows clearly why people are not pleased with it.

Wait, are we talking about Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Chaos Marines? That's usually their line.


They lack the strike force detachement and the things with that, dread buffs they are missing as well as squads for them, the wolf guard are over costed, both types, though some set ups for TA versions come out alright, the wolf scouts are a joke and end up worse off then even vanilla scouts. Could go on and on, it was a nerfed book released for a different design path and it will only suffer more and more as it ages, it already isn't very good, up to and unless you love thunder wolves. If that doesn't hint to a bad book I don't know what does.

All of which is only recently changed. And considering how GW has treated codices in the past, you really have no room to complain about this considering how well Space Wolves have been treated and are still quite effective, if boring now.

And they are still better than a good number of codices out there, sure they aren't number 1 any more, boo hoo. They are still quite effective and not half as bad as they were when 5th Edition began, and they weren't bad then, either. Do they need work? Yes, but then every codex always need some work. But they aren't Chaos Marines or Tyranids, either.

Or would you prefer they pull a Templar and be converted to Codex Marines?

H3L!X
14-10-2015, 06:18
When was the last time you saw a CityFight, PlanetStrike, or Battle Missions game being played in your store? 40K in 40 Minutes? Kill Team?

The levels are there, but getting others to use them is always the task involved.

Mw and my friends play a lot of 40k in 40 min and sometimes kill teams.
I would love to play Citys of death, but that rules set is not up to date.

AngryAngel
14-10-2015, 08:03
I seriously fail to see why that is vital determination when considering that the codex IS a year out and other codices have a stronger need of a codex.



I was using the fact that Logan was a Lord of War as evidence of release timing, not necessarily about the benefits of such a move.

Considering all the other Lords of War out there that have come out since then, Logan rocks. Sure, he's not an Imperial Knight or a Wraith Knight, but he's not the Storm Lord or Calgar, either. He's freaking LOGAN GRIMNAR, dude!



And before those two recent codices came out, their codex was superior. At this point, it is closer to "par" than "sub-par" when you factor ALL the codices in play, and that includes Imperial Guard, Tyranids, and Chaos Marines. Sure, they are below what the current Marine codices produce, but then that has been the case with Marines in release order for such a long time.

Of course, you could just be grateful you still have a separate codex.



Interesting... That's not what I saw anyone saying about it when it came out. I didn't see anyone saying that it was inferior to Blood Angels last December. I think that it is more that the changes for the codices last year just weren't changed as much we have seen with the Codex and DAngels.

And to be clear, stat-wise, very little has changed for most of the units released since 7th Edition. The number of stat changes has actually been quite minimal. Indeed, the changes to the Dreadnought's Attacks and Squadron Size is the largest change any unit has experienced.

What has had the largest impact has been the Wargear and Special Rule changes combined with the new Strike Force Formations



Wait, are we talking about Space Wolves or Dark Angels and Chaos Marines? That's usually their line.



All of which is only recently changed. And considering how GW has treated codices in the past, you really have no room to complain about this considering how well Space Wolves have been treated and are still quite effective, if boring now.

And they are still better than a good number of codices out there, sure they aren't number 1 any more, boo hoo. They are still quite effective and not half as bad as they were when 5th Edition began, and they weren't bad then, either. Do they need work? Yes, but then every codex always need some work. But they aren't Chaos Marines or Tyranids, either.

Or would you prefer they pull a Templar and be converted to Codex Marines?

A good many actually thought the book was weak on release, not when the new marine dex/s came out. Those issues they had on release, they have had since then, it isn't a new development. The only new level, is they end up even worse given the recent buffs.

Saying, well people have had it worse doesn't take away any room for complaint. They aren't really effective, but they are boring.

I also don't recall people claiming Space wolves were superior to BA, or even to the last edition of vanilla marines.

Though its ok, we have LOGAN GRIMNAR DUDES !!! What does that even mean ? He has no special rules, they stripped all of them away and ends up just as a 4 would guy in term armor, oh whoopie, look out mama I'm coming home !!!

As for asking if you play them, that is simply for my information. Honestly the sum of your counter points ends up being " People have had it worse, you have no right to complain, just deal " Which really isn't any counter point at all.

Don't worry guys, they are space wolves, they will be considered good based on story alone, no need to worry, vanilla grimnar is here, nothing bad can happen now Right ?!?!?

Silly

Charistoph
14-10-2015, 16:32
A good many actually thought the book was weak on release, not when the new marine dex/s came out. Those issues they had on release, they have had since then, it isn't a new development. The only new level, is they end up even worse given the recent buffs.

As I said, I hadn't heard any complaining before the Codex Marines came out, either locally, here, or other forums. To be fair, I don't frequent the Puppy Pages, I tend toward the Raging Knights, myself, when learning about Space Marines.

So, maybe instead of just spouting of histrionics, detail the differences of how every unit but Thunderwolves was nerfed from 5th Ed to 7th Ed. Because, I didn't see a whole lot of changes there. Or are you saying that is part of the problem? Because the ThunderPuppies changed just as much as the rest of the codex.


Saying, well people have had it worse doesn't take away any room for complaint. They aren't really effective, but they are boring.

And so, that means they should have priority over other codices which are older and actually have more room for complaint?


I also don't recall people claiming Space wolves were superior to BA, or even to the last edition of vanilla marines.

Maybe it was just local, then, but even here the Wolves were considered superior to the other Marines. Chapter Tactics brought the Vanilla Marines closer to their level is all.


Though its ok, we have LOGAN GRIMNAR DUDES !!! What does that even mean ? He has no special rules, they stripped all of them away and ends up just as a 4 would guy in term armor, oh whoopie, look out mama I'm coming home !!!

Comparisons...


As for asking if you play them, that is simply for my information. Honestly the sum of your counter points ends up being " People have had it worse, you have no right to complain, just deal " Which really isn't any counter point at all.

Don't worry guys, they are space wolves, they will be considered good based on story alone, no need to worry, vanilla grimnar is here, nothing bad can happen now Right ?!?!?

Silly

No, but your point that they deserve a codex next over others is even sillier.

Scammel
14-10-2015, 17:45
Just to kick the Space Dog, we know a Tzeentch release is not far off at all, with new Daemon and CSM kits. My money would be on new Sons and an accompanying Daemonkin book.

deathrain-commander
15-10-2015, 04:21
AngryAngel, I know this goes against your screen name, but calm down. The Space Wolves codex is fine. Maybe not great, but it's fine. Given what happened to the Dark Eldar codex around the same time the Space Wolves codex hit, you should be thankful. Give that a browse if you want to feel better about your codex. Or, you know, glance at the Sisters area of the site.

And on that note, all I want going forward is a proper Sisters codex and model update. I probably wouldn't rebuy most of my models (I got 4.5k, I'm not about to throw that out) but I would buy any and all new models in a heartbeat. Plus, with literally all of my other armies sitting pretty on 7th edition codices (some..prettier than others *glances at Dark Eldar again*) it's basically the only thing I need updated.

I guess a proper Inquisition book wouldn't hurt either.

Wolf Lord Balrog
15-10-2015, 04:41
A good many actually thought the book was weak on release, not when the new marine dex/s came out. Those issues they had on release, they have had since then, it isn't a new development. The only new level, is they end up even worse given the recent buffs.

Saying, well people have had it worse doesn't take away any room for complaint. They aren't really effective, but they are boring.

I also don't recall people claiming Space wolves were superior to BA, or even to the last edition of vanilla marines.

Though its ok, we have LOGAN GRIMNAR DUDES !!! What does that even mean ? He has no special rules, they stripped all of them away and ends up just as a 4 would guy in term armor, oh whoopie, look out mama I'm coming home !!!

As for asking if you play them, that is simply for my information. Honestly the sum of your counter points ends up being " People have had it worse, you have no right to complain, just deal " Which really isn't any counter point at all.

Don't worry guys, they are space wolves, they will be considered good based on story alone, no need to worry, vanilla grimnar is here, nothing bad can happen now Right ?!?!?

Silly

Don't worry Angry, I'm sure with the current pace of releases a new Space Wolves codex can't be more than 4-5 months down the line ...

A.T.
15-10-2015, 11:16
And on that note, all I want going forward is a proper Sisters codex and model updateI do wonder where they would actually go with a sisters/ecclesiarchy dex as they don't traditionally have gundams or other 'big ticket' items and most of their unique rules points have been handed off to other armies - blood angels with the saints and the flamers, eldar with divine guidance, twin pistols for everyone, etc.

Losing Command
15-10-2015, 15:11
Just to kick the Space Dog, we know a Tzeentch release is not far off at all, with new Daemon and CSM kits. My money would be on new Sons and an accompanying Daemonkin book.

Sorry, but no. We all know that Khorne and Nurgle sell way more than anything Tzeentch, and GW only puts effort in what sells the most these days. Just look at the codexes that got updated lately - SM, Eldar and now Tau. One has always been very popular, the other two saw a huge rise in people who played them when the previous codex was released (which were above the powerlevel of all the other armies at the time)

And besides that, with the other Daemonkin book the only new kit was the plastic Bloodthirster. So even in the unlikely event that we will see a Tzeentch Daemonkin codex, the chance that we will finally get some decent plastic Thousand Sons is as high as GW writing decent rules.

Scammel
15-10-2015, 15:25
Sorry, but no. We all know that Khorne and Nurgle sell way more than anything Tzeentch, and GW only puts effort in what sells the most these days. Just look at the codexes that got updated lately - SM, Eldar and now Tau. One has always been very popular, the other two saw a huge rise in people who played them when the previous codex was released (which were above the powerlevel of all the other armies at the time)

Ok, I'll tell Hastings you don't think his record is much hat then. ;)

Charistoph
15-10-2015, 16:10
I do wonder where they would actually go with a sisters/ecclesiarchy dex as they don't traditionally have gundams or other 'big ticket' items and most of their unique rules points have been handed off to other armies - blood angels with the saints and the flamers, eldar with divine guidance, twin pistols for everyone, etc.

I don't know, there could be something (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Sisters-of-Battle-Penitent-Engine)to work with that is like a gundam, or at least the baby carrier. It's still in white metal, after all.

At least they aren't fully anime like the Eldar are.

A.T.
15-10-2015, 16:49
I don't know, there could be something (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Sisters-of-Battle-Penitent-Engine)to work with that is like a gundam, or at least the baby carrier.They are just fancy sentinel walkers, which is fine but what I was trying to say is that the sisters don't fit easily into the epic-scale 40k that GW seems to be liking recently.

Squats on the other hand, with their giant artillery, airships, landtrains, etc, would be perfect for 7th edition. Grav weapons, d-strength super conversion beamers, and apocalyptic barrages everywhere.

Charistoph
15-10-2015, 17:21
They are just fancy sentinel walkers, which is fine but what I was trying to say is that the sisters don't fit easily into the epic-scale 40k that GW seems to be liking recently.

Squats on the other hand, with their giant artillery, airships, landtrains, etc, would be perfect for 7th edition. Grav weapons, d-strength super conversion beamers, and apocalyptic barrages everywhere.

Oh ye of so little imagination. If they can figure out a way to put a Space Marine in a Space Marine, make a bigger Wraithlord, a ridiculously obnoxious tank, or a Titan-that's-really-not-a-Titan-because-this-race-doesn't-make-Titans, they can figure out how to make something fun for the Sisters. Besides, there's always Volkite Relics they could include... And Imperial Knights are always available, apparently...

deathrain-commander
15-10-2015, 17:47
Oh ye of so little imagination. If they can figure out a way to put a Space Marine in a Space Marine, make a bigger Wraithlord, a ridiculously obnoxious tank, or a Titan-that's-really-not-a-Titan-because-this-race-doesn't-make-Titans, they can figure out how to make something fun for the Sisters. Besides, there's always Volkite Relics they could include... And Imperial Knights are always available, apparently...

While I would obviously prefer something unique, I would take a Sisters-specific Baneblade variant, perhaps with a mini-church or shrine on top.

Hell, at this point, I would take access to the existing Baneblade variants, maybe with an optional upgrade to give it 'Sisters pilots' (BS4 and Shield of Faith?). I'm getting tired of my only Sisters LoW being Lady Kendra. Imperial Knights are not enough!

A.T.
15-10-2015, 18:04
...a ridiculously obnoxious tank, or a Titan-that's-really-not-a-Titan-because-this-race-doesn't-make-Titans, they can figure out how to make something fun for the SistersHence my wondering where they would go with the line, whether it would be a newcron style background change to make way for a heavily militarised ecclesiarchy for instance.



I would take a Sisters-specific Baneblade variant221287
(not a sisters vehicle obviously, but quite fancy)

Inquisitor Kallus
15-10-2015, 19:17
While I would obviously prefer something unique, I would take a Sisters-specific Baneblade variant, perhaps with a mini-church or shrine on top.

Hell, at this point, I would take access to the existing Baneblade variants, maybe with an optional upgrade to give it 'Sisters pilots' (BS4 and Shield of Faith?). I'm getting tired of my only Sisters LoW being Lady Kendra. Imperial Knights are not enough!

Theyre part of the Imperium, they werent meant for large scale war, they would be part of larger armies. I like the fact that (atm) they are still at a smaller scale. Have you read their fluff?

Scammel
15-10-2015, 20:18
Theyre part of the Imperium, they werent meant for large scale war, they would be part of larger armies. I like the fact that (atm) they are still at a smaller scale. Have you read their fluff?

I've read the designer's notes, which I'm pretty sure draw attention to the large war-cathedrals in the background. As the barmiest Imperial faction, they probably have more scope for whatever big thing they like more than any other.

MajorWesJanson
15-10-2015, 21:28
Sigmarines got the giant Celestiant prime character. Sisters would be logical to get a living saint with giant wings and swirls of energy on the base as a centerpiece kit. Could Stat it like a ctan and make it the sisters lord of war.

deathrain-commander
15-10-2015, 22:18
Theyre part of the Imperium, they werent meant for large scale war, they would be part of larger armies. I like the fact that (atm) they are still at a smaller scale. Have you read their fluff?

I have read their fluff, which is why I find it odd you're under the impression they're not designed for large scale war. Even in the relatively thin amount of fluff in the current codex, there are several instances of them going to war in large scale (battling off Warboss Blackaxe's forces, holding off the Tyranids on Praxedes) and there are many others, both in the older codexes and in other pieces of fluff (such as the actions of St. Aspira, who liberated 100 worlds).

They're significantly more numerous than any single force of Space Marines, if not all Space Marines put together, and Space Marines are explicitly intended for small scale engagements, but no one bats an eye when they get Thunderhawks and Fellblades, and whatever else. Why do Grey Knights, who have fewer total members than there are Orders of the Sisters of Battle, get a Super Heavy, but Sisters don't?

Losing Command
16-10-2015, 03:18
Because the fact that in the fluff Imperial armies have to work together to effectively deal with all threats (because every one is specialized in one aspect) kinda got lost along the way with the new releases at some point.
Imperial superheavies, specially tanks and walkers, used to be something that the Imperial Guard, Titan Legions and Mechanicus had, while flyers and their larger cousins were handled by the Imperial Navy - besides drop ships that armies kind of need to deploy their armies on the surface, like thunderhawks.

deathrain-commander
16-10-2015, 04:21
Because the fact that in the fluff Imperial armies have to work together to effectively deal with all threats (because every one is specialized in one aspect) kinda got lost along the way with the new releases at some point.
Imperial superheavies, specially tanks and walkers, used to be something that the Imperial Guard, Titan Legions and Mechanicus had, while flyers and their larger cousins were handled by the Imperial Navy - besides drop ships that armies kind of need to deploy their armies on the surface, like thunderhawks.

Precisely, so if Space Marines get 5 separate super heavies, why can't Sisters get 1? One of the illustrations in the old Witch Hunters codex had a huge Cathedral on treads in the background, why not include something like that?

AngryAngel
16-10-2015, 09:00
As I said, I hadn't heard any complaining before the Codex Marines came out, either locally, here, or other forums. To be fair, I don't frequent the Puppy Pages, I tend toward the Raging Knights, myself, when learning about Space Marines.

So, maybe instead of just spouting of histrionics, detail the differences of how every unit but Thunderwolves was nerfed from 5th Ed to 7th Ed. Because, I didn't see a whole lot of changes there. Or are you saying that is part of the problem? Because the ThunderPuppies changed just as much as the rest of the codex.



And so, that means they should have priority over other codices which are older and actually have more room for complaint?



Maybe it was just local, then, but even here the Wolves were considered superior to the other Marines. Chapter Tactics brought the Vanilla Marines closer to their level is all.



Comparisons...



No, but your point that they deserve a codex next over others is even sillier.

let me address the one point of contention here, did I once, through all of this ever claim that space wolves deserved to be the next book updated ? I was simply saying the book is poor, it needs to be worked on, but isn't set up for the next in line status because of that, obviously other armies should get a look first, but some armies I fear may never get that look, like sisters.



AngryAngel, I know this goes against your screen name, but calm down. The Space Wolves codex is fine. Maybe not great, but it's fine. Given what happened to the Dark Eldar codex around the same time the Space Wolves codex hit, you should be thankful. Give that a browse if you want to feel better about your codex. Or, you know, glance at the Sisters area of the site.

And on that note, all I want going forward is a proper Sisters codex and model update. I probably wouldn't rebuy most of my models (I got 4.5k, I'm not about to throw that out) but I would buy any and all new models in a heartbeat. Plus, with literally all of my other armies sitting pretty on 7th edition codices (some..prettier than others *glances at Dark Eldar again*) it's basically the only thing I need updated.

I guess a proper Inquisition book wouldn't hurt either.

I have the DE codex as well, and yeah it is pretty poor. However I'd agree the codex is fine, if you don't really care about excitement or being competitive without thunder wolves.

However let us be serious, do we really believe they will give the sisters a new book any time soon ? They made 2 mechanicus books before that, that should be a sign.



Don't worry Angry, I'm sure with the current pace of releases a new Space Wolves codex can't be more than 4-5 months down the line ...

Oh I'm sure but by then will 40k still even have points or FoC ? I dread to imagine.


Precisely, so if Space Marines get 5 separate super heavies, why can't Sisters get 1? One of the illustrations in the old Witch Hunters codex had a huge Cathedral on treads in the background, why not include something like that?

See that ends up being quite difficult, as for such they would need an actual codex, which leads us to something that seems like it will never happen. A temporal schism, like in star trek, or the eye of terror.

Charistoph
16-10-2015, 16:13
let me address the one point of contention here, did I once, through all of this ever claim that space wolves deserved to be the next book updated ? I was simply saying the book is poor, it needs to be worked on, but isn't set up for the next in line status because of that, obviously other armies should get a look first, but some armies I fear may never get that look, like sisters.

It is the train of thought you were supporting. Let's look at the train of quotes, which you entered in to this thread 3 pages after, all nested together for context:




You could add Space Wolves to that list. The came right after Nids I believe and then the true 7th edition codexes were released. SW players got Codex:Thunderwolves. I sure hope they release a new one for us to put us at a level close to SM/Dark Angel, Eldar, Cron, Daemonkin and what is sure to be Tau. Sorry for the rate, but the SW book is so bad, not only that but they got us for 2 crappy codexes with Champions of Fenris.

They came out after Orks last year. They have Logan Grimnar as a Lord of War and with the Chariot option. They are barely a year old now. The only thing they need is a Strike Force detachment, really.

?? Do you even play the codex ? Logan as a LoW is a total joke, with or without chariot. The codex as it is, is sub par, most of the units end up over costed and under performing, especially in contrast to the other most recently updated marine books. The only unit that ended up well from the book, and supplement, is Thunderwolves, hence why people call it codex Thunder wolf. While it may not be old, it was released overly nerfed before the dawn of the super powers. It hasn't aged well and will continue to age poorly, so is it a dire need ? Depends on if you play the army, but playing the army with no thunder wolves shows clearly why people are not pleased with it.

They lack the strike force detachement and the things with that, dread buffs they are missing as well as squads for them, the wolf guard are over costed, both types, though some set ups for TA versions come out alright, the wolf scouts are a joke and end up worse off then even vanilla scouts. Could go on and on, it was a nerfed book released for a different design path and it will only suffer more and more as it ages, it already isn't very good, up to and unless you love thunder wolves. If that doesn't hint to a bad book I don't know what does.

So, from my perspective, yes, it does come across that you were implying that they deserved a codex soonest because they are so bad, since that was the response you were quoting.

Were they nerfed in the last codex? No. To be fair, aside from new models very little did change last year with the 7th Edition codices from their 5th Edition counterparts, something that was noted, and not just for the Space Wolves. Heck, at least you got new models that weren't just rehashes of the same. All Necrons got was the Super-Heavies added to their codex, and their GC nerfed to an MC, and no new models (though, the Decurion helped compensate for that, a little).

But they did not receive the same buffs that Codex Marines got from their Strike Force Detachments. That and errata'ble things like Squadrons (finally) and Dreadnought Attacks are the only major differences between the previous Codex Marines and this one. Considering how powerful the Strike Force Detachments are, I was pointing out that would be best buff that would come close to requiring a book for them. The rest can and has been adjusted by errata before (though, it is not common, I admit), and only Loyalist Marines have ever seen much out of these types of erratas.

Honestly, it sounds like certain government peoples where if they do not get an pay raise, they call it a pay cut.

murgel2006
16-10-2015, 17:11
Were they nerfed in the last codex? No. To be fair, aside from new models very little did change last year with the 7th Edition codices from their 5th Edition counterparts, something that was noted, and not just for the Space Wolves. Heck, at least you got new models that weren't just rehashes of the same. All Necrons got was the Super-Heavies added to their codex, and their GC nerfed to an MC, and no new models (though, the Decurion helped compensate for that, a little).

A little? this is sarcasm!? I'm sure.
There is no discussion around anywhere, that necs are currently the most resilient and dangerous army around.
However I totally agree on the other points. IMO Wolves are great IF you play friendly.

But they did not receive the same buffs that Codex Marines got from their Strike Force Detachments. That and errata'ble things like Squadrons (finally) and Dreadnought Attacks are the only major differences between the previous Codex Marines and this one. Considering how powerful the Strike Force Detachments are, I was pointing out that would be best buff that would come close to requiring a book for them. The rest can and has been adjusted by errata before (though, it is not common, I admit), and only Loyalist Marines have ever seen much out of these types of erratas.


Honestly, it sounds like certain government peoples where if they do not get an pay raise, they call it a pay cut.

Frankly I donīt think we will ever see the erratas which GW should have posted the same day SM was launched. (BA/SW Dreadnought etc.)

insectum7
16-10-2015, 17:43
Precisely, so if Space Marines get 5 separate super heavies, why can't Sisters get 1? One of the illustrations in the old Witch Hunters codex had a huge Cathedral on treads in the background, why not include something like that?

Space Marine superheavies aside from the Thunderhawk are left over from their days as legions, AFAIK. That's the only reason they make any sense to me at least, and most of the background seems to support it.

For Sisters, why not just take an existing superheavy and convert it? Any Baneblade chassis would make a great basis for decorative enhancements, then just choose the rules you think are most appropriate (Baneblade, Stormhammer, Shadowsword, etc.)

Azazyll
16-10-2015, 18:28
I dream of having a big tent chaos book, with legions, renegades, daemons, traitor guard and the lost and the damned all rolled into one book the size of the RB. Never going to happen, but a man can dream

deathrain-commander
16-10-2015, 18:42
Space Marine superheavies aside from the Thunderhawk are left over from their days as legions, AFAIK. That's the only reason they make any sense to me at least, and most of the background seems to support it.

For Sisters, why not just take an existing superheavy and convert it? Any Baneblade chassis would make a great basis for decorative enhancements, then just choose the rules you think are most appropriate (Baneblade, Stormhammer, Shadowsword, etc.)

Because 150 bucks is more than I'm willing to spend on a unit that is not technically in my army and that I can't legally use in anything other than Apocalypse? If Sisters had rules for their own superheavy that I had to convert, or if we had access to some of the Baneblade variants, I'd be on that like Dark Eldar on souls, but as it stands, 100 bucks is my hard limit for 'Fun but mostly useless' conversions, so Baneblades are well over it.

Herkamer63
16-10-2015, 20:04
Hey guys, I understand everyone has an opinion and wants to be heard, but please, stay on topic and keep it friendly. A few posts on here are getting out of hand. If you want to go to another thread to argue, head there now. I like some of ideas on here, but don't be jerks about it. So again, please stay on topic and friendly. I don't want this thread being closed because of some adults (I'm assuming) acting like 5 year olds. Thank you and keep posting ideas.

AngryAngel
16-10-2015, 21:34
It is the train of thought you were supporting. Let's look at the train of quotes, which you entered in to this thread 3 pages after, all nested together for context:



So, from my perspective, yes, it does come across that you were implying that they deserved a codex soonest because they are so bad, since that was the response you were quoting.

Were they nerfed in the last codex? No. To be fair, aside from new models very little did change last year with the 7th Edition codices from their 5th Edition counterparts, something that was noted, and not just for the Space Wolves. Heck, at least you got new models that weren't just rehashes of the same. All Necrons got was the Super-Heavies added to their codex, and their GC nerfed to an MC, and no new models (though, the Decurion helped compensate for that, a little).

But they did not receive the same buffs that Codex Marines got from their Strike Force Detachments. That and errata'ble things like Squadrons (finally) and Dreadnought Attacks are the only major differences between the previous Codex Marines and this one. Considering how powerful the Strike Force Detachments are, I was pointing out that would be best buff that would come close to requiring a book for them. The rest can and has been adjusted by errata before (though, it is not common, I admit), and only Loyalist Marines have ever seen much out of these types of erratas.

Honestly, it sounds like certain government peoples where if they do not get an pay raise, they call it a pay cut.

Well then your perspective is flawed, as I am saying, once more and quite clearly, I am not saying space wolves should be the next codex released. I am saying, the space wolf codex is somewhat poor and dull, so should get a look in the not too distant future.

Now what you wish to imply from my words, is all on you, I can't really be any more to the point then to specify what I am saying.

As for what units got worse ? Wolf scouts, got worse, grey hunters once top of the line, got worse by a wide margine ( loss of wulfen, banner, cost increases etc), core changes with acute senses not giving outflank, made many space wolf units worse. Wolf priest got worse, over expensive for little to no gain. Their whole psychic discipline is a joke, the much touted grimnar got worse, long fangs got worse. Wolf guard as sgts, got more expensive, less flexible and worse. Blood claws got better, but still meh. Many changes are lateral if anything, and for that they got their flyer, which one is good if you like flyers, and thunder wolves improved with some minor tweaks and cost cutting in points.

It is a poor book, not perhaps in line for next or second to next book out status, I'd say it was more in line for a re do then the Tau book was however.

If your saying Necrons didn't make out well from their new book, that is simply insanity. It did more then help them " a little ".

Charistoph
17-10-2015, 00:08
Well then your perspective is flawed, as I am saying, once more and quite clearly, I am not saying space wolves should be the next codex released. I am saying, the space wolf codex is somewhat poor and dull, so should get a look in the not too distant future.

Now what you wish to imply from my words, is all on you, I can't really be any more to the point then to specify what I am saying.

Then be more careful on when you bring yourself in to the conversation. I honestly thought that you were the person I quoted since it had been 3 pages before, and you did not clarify otherwise until just now that you weren't implying that they should before your previous response.


As for what units got worse ? Wolf scouts, got worse,

How so?

Let's see, they lost a point, their rule that changed Outflank result chart, one Wulfen (though almost everyone lost this one) and the ability for all of them to take Meltabombs.


grey hunters once top of the line, got worse by a wide margine ( loss of wulfen, banner, cost increases etc)

They lost a base point, and only increased in points when becoming Legion Marines again. Point increases for chart weapons was pretty much standard by this point. Oh, and now they can have a Wolf Guard Leader, 2 Special Weapons, AND deploy in a Rhino. They still have their standard (even if it did change), and the Wolf Guard can still be in big boy pants (TDA).

So, net loss on Wulfen, maybe up a point if you choose to go Ultragrit, but they get to ride in their DTs with their Sergeant.


core changes with acute senses not giving outflank,

That was from the beginning of 6th Edition, it seriously cannot be considered a nerf from this codex.


made many space wolf units worse.

Hyperbole


Wolf priest got worse, over expensive for little to no gain.

Try, "did not change" except for what else changed with the rest of the army.


Their whole psychic discipline is a joke, the much touted grimnar got worse, long fangs got worse. Wolf guard as sgts, got more expensive, less flexible and worse. Blood claws got better, but still meh. Many changes are lateral if anything, and for that they got their flyer, which one is good if you like flyers, and thunder wolves improved with some minor tweaks and cost cutting in points.

So, it sounds like that the real complaint is loss of Sagas and Wulfen for the most part, since that was the biggest changes.


It is a poor book, not perhaps in line for next or second to next book out status, I'd say it was more in line for a re do then the Tau book was however.

Tau is older and not from this edition. Should we do Orks before Tau and Space Wolves, then?


If your saying Necrons didn't make out well from their new book, that is simply insanity. It did more then help them "a little ".

I said they didn't get any benefit from new models form it. Stats-wise, Necrons saw very few changes over-all, and more nerfs than buffs. And the Decurion Detachments helped to account for that. However, there was such a big stink from it, getting a game with a Decurion was the challenge till Eldar became the big stink.

Still for all that, I still think that Wolf Strike Force Detachments would help them more than anything that an errata couldn't cover.

Herkamer63
17-10-2015, 02:47
Are we talking about people hoping SW and other armies getting an update through FAQs/Erratas, or are we internet raging over how we got screwed? Who cares? This is a thread of what people are looking forward to after Tau. So again, if it's FAQ's you're looking forward to, mention those. If it's a new codex, get that in there too. This is NOT a thread to complain, whine, and b***h. Take it else where. I want this thread to be open as long as possible, and not be closed because of a few children feuding and crying over nothing (I would rather it be closed once it becomes no longer necessary after any of the news becomes reality). So stop.

insectum7
17-10-2015, 02:52
Because 150 bucks is more than I'm willing to spend on a unit that is not technically in my army and that I can't legally use in anything other than Apocalypse? If Sisters had rules for their own superheavy that I had to convert, or if we had access to some of the Baneblade variants, I'd be on that like Dark Eldar on souls, but as it stands, 100 bucks is my hard limit for 'Fun but mostly useless' conversions, so Baneblades are well over it.

Can't you ally it in with a couple of guardsmen?

Or. . . Ally in a Space Marine superheavy with 10 Marines and a cheap HQ. Where there's a will there's a way.

deathrain-commander
17-10-2015, 04:10
Can't you ally it in with a couple of guardsmen?

Or. . . Ally in a Space Marine superheavy with 10 Marines and a cheap HQ. Where there's a will there's a way.

I'd need to take a full CAD if I wanted to include a Super Heavy, since Super Heavies are invariably Lords of War, and Allied Detachments don't have Lords of War.

None of this was my original point however, which is that I shouldn't HAVE to do that (also that Sisters are no less designed for large scale engagements than Marines...hell, probably more designed for large scale engagements, since a Sisters Order can have more than 1,000 members). There is no logical reason for Sisters not to have their own Super Heavy, or even access to the currently existing Super Heavies, and that should be on the list of things to add when Sisters get their update.

I fear even that has strayed pretty heavily from my original original point, which was: More than any other army in the game, Sisters are the one that need an update, and that's basically all I want out of 7th edition.

insectum7
17-10-2015, 04:30
I'd need to take a full CAD if I wanted to include a Super Heavy, since Super Heavies are invariably Lords of War, and Allied Detachments don't have Lords of War.

10 Space Marines (2 x 5 man squads) and an HQ is a CAD.


I fear even that has strayed pretty heavily from my original original point, which was: More than any other army in the game, Sisters are the one that need an update, and that's basically all I want out of 7th edition.

Can't argue with that. :) I'm just saying that if I were heavily invested in Sisters, I'd go ahead and start building a customized Shadowsword or something anyways if I wanted one.

A.T.
17-10-2015, 12:35
There is no logical reason for Sisters not to have their own Super Heavy, or even access to the currently existing Super HeaviesTechnically the battle sisters are like the scions would be if the rest of the imperial guard and navy was disbanded forever - they had tanks, aircraft, superheavies, etc (at least in support, piloted by the frateris templars) when they were part of the army of the ecclesiarchy but that army is no more.

There is certainly scope for the sisters to have super heavies (guncutters, armed mobile churches, relics which also happen to be tanks, etc) but i'd disagree that sisters are an army built for large scale engagements - there are just a lot of them with a lot of local support, but they are really a massively expanded elite/honour guard in nature. The templars were the army.

--------

If/when the sisters ever actually get updated of course. I'd guess GW will want to clear out the last of their metal production sooner or later. I wonder if the current line will make it through to it's 20th birthday (the current bolter sisters, flamer sister, and superior with power weapon went on sale in white dwarf 211 - August 1997, as a 6 model box set for Ģ12 with rules in the magazine).

sturguard
17-10-2015, 14:17
AngryAngel, I know this goes against your screen name, but calm down. The Space Wolves codex is fine. Maybe not great, but it's fine. Given what happened to the Dark Eldar codex around the same time the Space Wolves codex hit, you should be thankful. Give that a browse if you want to feel better about your codex. Or, you know, glance at the Sisters area of the site.

And on that note, all I want going forward is a proper Sisters codex and model update. I probably wouldn't rebuy most of my models (I got 4.5k, I'm not about to throw that out) but I would buy any and all new models in a heartbeat. Plus, with literally all of my other armies sitting pretty on 7th edition codices (some..prettier than others *glances at Dark Eldar again*) it's basically the only thing I need updated.

I guess a proper Inquisition book wouldn't hurt either.

Deathrain- just because Sisters and Dark Eldar may be in need of rules updates as well, doesn't diminish Angry Angels thoughts on SW needing a new codex as well. As someone who has only one unit of TWs and every other unit in the codex represented, I can support the theory that the codex is bland, boring and a piece of crap. You take out TWs and every unit we have is subpar to the SM counter unit, then add on the fact that SMs and Dark Angels have grav (which is now the universal equalizer to everything bolters cant kill) it really makes our book look sterile. People arent playing multiple units of TWs because they want to win, they are playing that unit because they want to have a chance against any of the new codexes. Maybe for some of you simply peeling off models on the board is fun, but some of us actually like to do something with the models we spend so much time modelling and painting before they are done for the game.

Actually the lack of a decent codex and the trend of everything being bigger and more killy has led me to collect all the 2nd edition rules and learning that system which I am enjoying immensely until SW get a proper codex (Thankfully as well I sold my champions of Fenris supplement soon after it came out and didnt lose any money on it).

Charistoph
17-10-2015, 16:56
Deathrain- just because Sisters and Dark Eldar may be in need of rules updates as well, doesn't diminish Angry Angels thoughts on SW needing a new codex as well. As someone who has only one unit of TWs and every other unit in the codex represented, I can support the theory that the codex is bland, boring and a piece of crap. You take out TWs and every unit we have is subpar to the SM counter unit, then add on the fact that SMs and Dark Angels have grav (which is now the universal equalizer to everything bolters cant kill) it really makes our book look sterile. People arent playing multiple units of TWs because they want to win, they are playing that unit because they want to have a chance against any of the new codexes. Maybe for some of you simply peeling off models on the board is fun, but some of us actually like to do something with the models we spend so much time modelling and painting before they are done for the game.

Well, I can't say anything for Dark Eldar, they are newer. But Sisters is another story. They have an older codex, even if you include the digital-only format. Their models are so outdated that only Chaos Marines have anything as old their newest.

So their codex is "boring" and "bland", so what? It's happened before and it will happen again, so it's not exactly new. But the odds of them getting a 7.5 codex is rather low.

Dkoz
17-10-2015, 18:52
If anything BA are in a worse position then SW but after Tau those in serious need of attention are SB, Orks CSM, and Nidz. Not in that order per say and it would also be nice to see some more of the Xenos terrain the new Tau stuff looks great.

AngryAngel
18-10-2015, 07:28
Stuff

I counter offer you could ask for clarification as opposed to place the fault on others for your misunderstanding. I appreciate you don't agree, but I consider you wrong. Just because you don't see a need for a new SW book doesn't mean that need isn't present.It was stated what are people looking forward to, and I said my thoughts. All your points end up as " So what ? Who cares ? " Obviously not you, noted, but some of us do.

You keep showing as well you don't know what your talking about with the space wolf codex if you can't even say what wolf scouts lost. Why are you even arguing they didn't lose anything without any real understanding ? Comes off as arguing to argue. Which I'm fine with but at least be honest about it.

I'm not going to go into all the other signs you don't understand the wolf codex last or current, I think actual wolf players will read that for themselves.




Deathrain- just because Sisters and Dark Eldar may be in need of rules updates as well, doesn't diminish Angry Angels thoughts on SW needing a new codex as well. As someone who has only one unit of TWs and every other unit in the codex represented, I can support the theory that the codex is bland, boring and a piece of crap. You take out TWs and every unit we have is subpar to the SM counter unit, then add on the fact that SMs and Dark Angels have grav (which is now the universal equalizer to everything bolters cant kill) it really makes our book look sterile. People arent playing multiple units of TWs because they want to win, they are playing that unit because they want to have a chance against any of the new codexes. Maybe for some of you simply peeling off models on the board is fun, but some of us actually like to do something with the models we spend so much time modelling and painting before they are done for the game.

Actually the lack of a decent codex and the trend of everything being bigger and more killy has led me to collect all the 2nd edition rules and learning that system which I am enjoying immensely until SW get a proper codex (Thankfully as well I sold my champions of Fenris supplement soon after it came out and didnt lose any money on it).

Good to see you around, and always a treat to see some signs of logic from like minded fellows.



Well, I can't say anything for Dark Eldar, they are newer. But Sisters is another story. They have an older codex, even if you include the digital-only format. Their models are so outdated that only Chaos Marines have anything as old their newest.

So their codex is "boring" and "bland", so what? It's happened before and it will happen again, so it's not exactly new. But the odds of them getting a 7.5 codex is rather low.

I don't think anyone would argue the state of sisters is quite dire, however GW seeing to them is proving to be the great mystery, when if ever it will happen.

sunborn
18-10-2015, 10:29
Despite what people are whining about, Tau has (until the new codex drops) the oldest codex out there. If GW is following some form of logic, and you know, updating the oldest codexes, we should expect the following in order of age:


Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Adepta Sororitas
Cypher
Be'Lakor
Inquisition
Tyranids
Militarum Tempestus
Legion of the Damned
Astra Militarum
Orks
Space Wolves


Which is something like what credible rumors are pointing to: Chaos and 'Nids. I don't play sisters, but would like to see them get an update. However, that is as likely as my inquisition getting an update.

Scammel
18-10-2015, 11:27
Despite what people are whining about, Tau has (until the new codex drops) the oldest codex out there.

They don't, I'm afraid - CSM takes that crown with aplomb.

Mack
18-10-2015, 14:36
They don't, I'm afraid - CSM takes that crown with aplomb.

Agree. the current CSM codex came out well before the current Tau codex. I seem to remember the CSM and Dark Angels (not counting the new DA) codex being the first 2 codex that were in the hard cover format.

Back on the actual question, the CSM are the most dire army to need an updated (and good) codex. The Orks aren't far behind though, so if I had a true wish list, I would want to see the following as my top 3:

CSM (doesn't even hold a candle against any other codex out there as just being bad)
Orks (The last codex was so bland and unorky)
Sisters (I suspect this army is one that GW long abandoned as being in their mix of armies they dedicate resources against, thus this is more of an honorable mention rather than anything else)

Lets be honest though. We all know that less effort is being put into each codex, so hoping that a new codex will somehow vastly improve the current army situation is dreaming. I'm actually more excited about new models that come from a new codex as the codex really is what it is. GW at least is doing that part incredibly well. (New models)

A.T.
18-10-2015, 15:10
Agree. the current CSM codex came out well before the current Tau codex.Around 6 months. CSMs jumped the queue ahead of tau to lead off the 6th edition armies.

deathrain-commander
18-10-2015, 16:00
Deathrain- just because Sisters and Dark Eldar may be in need of rules updates as well, doesn't diminish Angry Angels thoughts on SW needing a new codex as well. As someone who has only one unit of TWs and every other unit in the codex represented, I can support the theory that the codex is bland, boring and a piece of crap. You take out TWs and every unit we have is subpar to the SM counter unit, then add on the fact that SMs and Dark Angels have grav (which is now the universal equalizer to everything bolters cant kill) it really makes our book look sterile. People arent playing multiple units of TWs because they want to win, they are playing that unit because they want to have a chance against any of the new codexes. Maybe for some of you simply peeling off models on the board is fun, but some of us actually like to do something with the models we spend so much time modelling and painting before they are done for the game.

Actually the lack of a decent codex and the trend of everything being bigger and more killy has led me to collect all the 2nd edition rules and learning that system which I am enjoying immensely until SW get a proper codex (Thankfully as well I sold my champions of Fenris supplement soon after it came out and didnt lose any money on it).

Yes it does diminish his point, because my point is, they don't really need a new codex. I also wasn't saying Dark Eldar need a new codex, I was saying Sisters need a new Codex, I was merely using Dark Eldar as an example of how Space Wolves could have it worse. Space Wolves are, even without Thunderwolves, a middle tier army. Dark Eldar are the worst army in the game, even with all their tools in play.

Your codex is not as good as Space Marines or Dark Angels? So? Most of the armies in the game aren't as good as the new Dark Angels or Space Marines, they just got some awesome new updates. It's called Power Creep, it happens in this game. A lot. A lot a lot. But that doesn't mean you have to derail a thread about expectations for upcoming codices to talk about how your middle tier army with a 14 month old codex needs an update more than bottom tier 36 month old codex like Chaos Marines (or, just an odd example, an army who only has a 24 month old digital codex and hasn't had a model update in nearly a decade).

AngryAngel
18-10-2015, 20:59
Despite what people are whining about, Tau has (until the new codex drops) the oldest codex out there. If GW is following some form of logic, and you know, updating the oldest codexes, we should expect the following in order of age:


Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Adepta Sororitas
Cypher
Be'Lakor
Inquisition
Tyranids
Militarum Tempestus
Legion of the Damned
Astra Militarum
Orks
Space Wolves


Which is something like what credible rumors are pointing to: Chaos and 'Nids. I don't play sisters, but would like to see them get an update. However, that is as likely as my inquisition getting an update.

GW have already shown there is no real method to their codex release madness, as well I'd be surprised to see many of those digital only releases re touched, so taking them out of the list would be a great idea. They would be re hashed infrequently if ever, perhaps they might get a nod over the holiday season at an over inflated price, if they don't drop then I'd doubt we'll see them for awhile.



Yes it does diminish his point, because my point is, they don't really need a new codex. I also wasn't saying Dark Eldar need a new codex, I was saying Sisters need a new Codex, I was merely using Dark Eldar as an example of how Space Wolves could have it worse. Space Wolves are, even without Thunderwolves, a middle tier army. Dark Eldar are the worst army in the game, even with all their tools in play.

Your codex is not as good as Space Marines or Dark Angels? So? Most of the armies in the game aren't as good as the new Dark Angels or Space Marines, they just got some awesome new updates. It's called Power Creep, it happens in this game. A lot. A lot a lot. But that doesn't mean you have to derail a thread about expectations for upcoming codices to talk about how your middle tier army with a 14 month old codex needs an update more than bottom tier 36 month old codex like Chaos Marines (or, just an odd example, an army who only has a 24 month old digital codex and hasn't had a model update in nearly a decade).

The point is they do really need a new codex, however the missed point is I never claimed they needed the next new codex or even the second next. Just that they needed a new one, so should be on the not too distant future release stack. Just because one book has it worse, doesn't invalidate the need of another. The not starving hobo doesn't lose his poor off status just because there is a starving hobo, for instance.

Let me also say, yes, chaos marines need a new codex, they have for awhile, they have since right around their current codex released. As for Sisters of battle, there is no one in the right mind who would say they shouldn't have a new, real codex and release. That said, it doesn't seem to even be a care for GW, so tossing them out there is completely pointless akin to a dream for world peace. If it happens it happens, but it is more a waiting game and not really a fact of need, as we all know they need it.

Doesn't change the fact space wolves need a codex, and the more people keep saying they don't the more I'll say they do. Just please, don't make up what I am saying, they need a new one, doesn't need to be the next one and others do need it more. That said, the space wolf need is real, Thank you.

Herkamer63
19-10-2015, 15:35
Despite what people are whining about, Tau has (until the new codex drops) the oldest codex out there. If GW is following some form of logic, and you know, updating the oldest codexes, we should expect the following in order of age:


Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Adepta Sororitas
Cypher
Be'Lakor
Inquisition
Tyranids
Militarum Tempestus
Legion of the Damned
Astra Militarum
Orks
Space Wolves


Which is something like what credible rumors are pointing to: Chaos and 'Nids. I don't play sisters, but would like to see them get an update. However, that is as likely as my inquisition getting an update.

As far as age is concern, I fully agree with this. Honestly, this is the way it should be. However, some armies need an update. The only time age is a factor is if it's from the last ed. Tyranids, IMO, need updated badly. Chaos needs it too, but not to the degree of Nids. Followed by sisters, and whatever else after that 6th ed.

Herkamer63
19-10-2015, 16:02
Of course, you won't see me argue if sisters get a new codex, and some shiny new models. Or if your schedule is correct. BTW, I'm glad you brought up the inquisition because I totally forgot about them. An Updated codex and models wouldn't hurt. Maybe bring back the the inquisitor chick (Valeria, was it, I can't remember the name) and break down the henchman in to more than just elites.

A.T.
19-10-2015, 16:10
Maybe bring back the the inquisitor chick (Valeria, was it, I can't remember the name) and break down the henchman in to more than just elites.They were originally all separate and distinct units (the arco flagellants for instance were T5 with power weapons, the daemonhosts 4 wounds and 85pts of random powers, and so on).

GW gave up on them when the 54mm game failed more than a decade ago and what is left is a mix of 5th edition vehicle rules and remnants of the inquisition from when they were squashed into the grey knight book. It's a full ground-up rewrite for them, even more so than the sisters who at least have something resembling a codex. Perhaps a return of the old inquisitorial stormtroopers.

Speaking of stormtroopers i'm not sure what future the tempestus have past the next IG book - always seemed like a bit of an odd idea to sell an elite unit from a codex as a codex in its own right (cross-codex units like LotD and harlies excepted).

Scammel
19-10-2015, 18:01
Chaos needs it too, but not to the degree of Nids.

Really? What makes you think Nids are in a worse position? The only factor that might give the former priority is the need to incorporate the new units into the book - in terms of age, poor rules and dated models the boys in black trump easily.

wyvirn
19-10-2015, 18:58
On the face of it, CSM are worse off because they seem like SM but worse. ButTyranids have no allies (No Daemonkin), no psychic shenanigans (No invisibility on Belkior), little 2+ or invulnerable saves in an edition that has a scarcity of survivability, hence the FMC spam or the Lictor/Mawloc combo. Tyranids need the update slightly more, IMO.


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Scammel
19-10-2015, 20:07
CSM seem bad because they simply are, and allying in Daemonkin or Daemons just leaves one wondering why on earth you'd want to spoil two perfectly good armies with the base CSM book. 'Nids might have a bevy of bad units, but CSM also pack utter howlers like Warp Talons and Mutilators. At the other end of the scale, 'Nids are actually winning tournaments: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/02/23/tits-tournaments-las-vegas-open-2015-top-lists/

There's no denying that 'Nids do need a new book so that we might actually see some traditional playstyles on the table, but they really are beat for awfulness.

Getifa Ubazza
19-10-2015, 21:40
I would like a CSM codex \ models update, but I kinda hope they do Daemonkin for all the Gods first, then do a CSM codex and update any models they didn't get to update with the Daemonkin books. That would give us Chaos fans 5 Great books to play with and a whole lot of new models too. If they gave us a mixed Daemons book after that, it would be a bonus.

I would also like to see Sisters get a proper update, but won't be holding my Breath. Nids do need an update to their codex, but I'm starting to think GW just doesn't know what to do with them and that's something I don't want to think about.

adreal
20-10-2015, 00:22
From a financial point of view, I don't want a chaos codex Amy time soon. But from a playability point of view I would like a new chaos codex with legion traits....God I want some legion traits

Karhedron
22-10-2015, 10:17
I have fought against CSM once in the last year. I was using the latest Eldar dex (not even a particularly cheesy build) and it was almost a point-and-delete exercise. Certainly a long way from the days of the 3.5Ed codex where every other army was Iron Warriors.

Charistoph
22-10-2015, 16:37
Aside from the Cheese of the Iron Warriors, the 3.5 Chaos Codex was the best style of codex ever released. It provided a plethora of options for the Characters as well as a plethora of options for the rest of the units. In a way, the Codex Marines with Chapter Tactics are the closest any other codex has come to it. If it had 3 pages of Relics to work with, it would be even closer.

And to be honest, if such a numerically small faction such as Space Marines can be so customized, why cannot any other army? Closest so far is Chaos Marines, and that's only because of Marks! All the rest, it is only about the units themselves, and not how to shape the units to fit the sub-faction. Very boring that way, imo, but my TT experience comes from Battletech where EVERYTHING can be customized so I was spoiled. I did not come from historicals who try replicate the forces of old, nor WarmaHordes where your customization outside of unit choice is...?

Fangschrecken
22-10-2015, 19:41
I'd settle for a mediocre chaos marine codex if I could just get a new chaos marine sprue. The current one is what's stopping me from finishing my army. It's like they're all doing squats or have dropped one in their armour.

WarsmithGarathor94
22-10-2015, 20:10
What id like to.see is
A new CSM codex equal to the Eldar (we should be more powerful.tham.vanilla marines after all)
The Daemonkin books to be scrapped quite frankly they are garbage
Daemons to be redisgned from.the ground up including the lore. Simply put they are supposed to be terrorfying but quite frankly look stupid and act stupid in the lore. Since gw has already ripped quite a bit of the chaos theme off devil.worship why not base the daemons off a devil worship/satanic theme. Seriously gws daemons are like the basil brushes of demons id be more scared of the demon in paranormal.activity