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M'ichal
02-10-2015, 04:39
So I stumbled upon the investor's page and here's what GW officially says about the "game" part of their business:

"The games are a key part of both our Hobby and our business model."

Here's what they say about their marketing:

"We donít spend money on things we donít need, like expensive offices or prime rent shopping locations or advertising that speaks to the mass market and not our small band of loyal followers."

This seems to be changing now, what with the convention presence and reports of ads in other magazines for AoS. We'll see how it pans out.

Finally:

"We only invest where it makes a positive improvement to our business model, such as in tooling to make better plastic miniatures, in opening more Hobby centres to improve our customer service and in fit-for-purpose systems to make our processes more efficient and reliable."

I'll give them that - the plastic stuff has definitely gotten better and their customer service is stellar, based on my personal experience.

Take it for what you will but I think we should throw this "GW is not a game company" phrase that's been poppin around a lot lately a bit more carefully. I hope it also means good stuff for the 30K system.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/our-business-model/

Old School
02-10-2015, 09:11
"This post was, maybe, brought to you by the GW PR team."

Gorsameth
02-10-2015, 11:19
"This post was, maybe, brought to you by the GW PR team."
HAHAHA





No.

Buddy Bear
02-10-2015, 11:35
GW has a PR team? :P

Getifa Ubazza
02-10-2015, 12:03
Hi M'ichal,

Posting something positive about GW on Warseer is forbidden, especially in GW General. You will likely be called a fanboy and you may even have your intelligence level questioned. Honestly, it's not worth the effort.

With that said. I really hope this is true, as GW have not been pulling their weight in the game department lately. Unlike most on here, I think AoS might be one of my favourite games in a very long time, but I play toy soldiers with little plastic models and dice, while making jokes (mostly at my own expense) and giggling like a hyena. I'm not a gamer. I play games.

The models have improved. There are small areas that could use some work, but they have improved.

Now if they can just give us plastic Sisters of Battle, I might resemble the GW fanboy label. :p

morvaeldd
02-10-2015, 14:26
I think this text is very old, and they said different things about how games are important to them (vs miniatures). They also recently invested in some magazine ads, countering what you quote.

M'ichal
02-10-2015, 15:02
"This post was, maybe, brought to you by the GW PR team."

Hey, don't shoot the messenger :)


I think this text is very old, and they said different things about how games are important to them (vs miniatures). They also recently invested in some magazine ads, countering what you quote.

Wrong - they say "advertising that speaks to the mass market". Putting an ad in some niche magazine (which I have yet to see) is far from advertising to mass market. I would say even going to GenCon is not mass market, it's still just a convention for the gaming community, at most they're making themselves heard across it.

Anyway, there are some interesting reads there.

Kahadras
02-10-2015, 16:12
Always good to remember the Wizard's Fifth Rule in these circumstances. Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.

GW really hasn't got a history of doing very well at the 'game' side of the hobby for some time now. Specialist games have gone. 40K has become a bigger and bigger mess as GW try to force flyers, super heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures into a system that really wasn't designed for them. Dreadfleet and Execution Force past us by. Warhammer got shot in the head and AoS hasn't really inspired any confidence in GW's rules writing ability. If the game is key for GW then they're doing a really poor job to convince me of that fact.

Looking at GW it's much easier to think that GW believes that expencive models ARE the key for them.

M'ichal
02-10-2015, 17:18
Always good to remember the Wizard's Fifth Rule in these circumstances. Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.

GW really hasn't got a history of doing very well at the 'game' side of the hobby for some time now. Specialist games have gone. 40K has become a bigger and bigger mess as GW try to force flyers, super heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures into a system that really wasn't designed forthem. Dreadfleet and Execution Force past us by. Warhammer got shot in the head and AoS hasn't really inspired any confidence in GW's rules writing ability. If the game is key for GW then they're doing a really poor job to convince me of that fact.

Looking at GW it's much easier to think that GW believes that expencive models ARE the key for them.

Yeah, unfortunately, I agree with this. Assassinorum was such a missed opportunity...

ebbwar
02-10-2015, 18:27
So many things in that page made me 'lol wut?' :D

Inquisitor Kallus
04-10-2015, 13:52
I think this text is very old, and they said different things about how games are important to them (vs miniatures). They also recently invested in some magazine ads, countering what you quote.

magazine ads and displays etc at gencon are definitely not mass market advertising.



Of course the games are important to them, they help push further sales of models. Models are GWs main production., not that they dont do other things as well. Far too many people on here feel tht it wa GW saying that they dont care about the game. They do. They have however made mistakes and indded I think canning some of them was a bad move, UNLESS they want to bring them back at a later date in a big way? It that is part of their plan that means that they have been able to focus their money and production onto the two main lines. I dont think that is a bad idea in the relative short term, paticularly if they were having money troubles. Condense down and cut the fat. Nothing is stopping them form re-releasing old titles at a later date

Zywus
04-10-2015, 14:48
magazine ads and displays etc at gencon are definitely not mass market advertising.



Of course the games are important to them, they help push further sales of models. Models are GWs main production., not that they dont do other things as well. Far too many people on here feel tht it wa GW saying that they dont care about the game. They do. They have however made mistakes and indded I think canning some of them was a bad move, UNLESS they want to bring them back at a later date in a big way? It that is part of their plan that means that they have been able to focus their money and production onto the two main lines. I dont think that is a bad idea in the relative short term, paticularly if they were having money troubles. Condense down and cut the fat. Nothing is stopping them form re-releasing old titles at a later date
Canning WHFB is probably a grave mistake indeed if they plan on ever re-releasing it. AoS have given loads of people the mental push to move on from the game. It'll be significantly harder to bring those people back than it would have been to keep them invested out of habit.

If a proper WHFB mass battle game is released in a few years it'll have to compete for players with KoW and other games on a much more even footage than has been the case previously as WHFB, for all it's perceived faults, has undoubtedly been the market leader and default fantasy battle game system.

The specialist games could probably be quite popular if GW did a re-release though.

Malagor
04-10-2015, 15:02
Not to mention that the fact that GW killed it.
You can't just come back from that, the damage is done, the trust is broken.
Who would invest in Warhammer Fantasy again knowning that GW will probably just kill it off again ?
Nah, Fantasy is gone, pure and simple and if GW thinks they can just bring it back again as if nothing has happened then they are more stupid then we thought.

Voss
04-10-2015, 15:15
prime rent shopping locations
They don't do this? They certainly do in the states. They used to put stores (the first ones) in shoddy strip malls. A lot of the current ones are in ridiculously oversized and overhyped malls with wildly disproportionate rental prices.

Ben
04-10-2015, 16:42
The answer to the American market would be working more closely with LGSs to make it easier and more profitable for them to stock GW games. Not opening stores. America is too spread out to have a store chain from scratch without mass appeal. Dominating LGSs through marketing heavily to them and having organised play (something to rival Friday night magic) and big events and tournaments is the way to go, and the way Star Wars seems to be going.

Ben
04-10-2015, 16:47
And on this they've since said to investors that games aren't key to them, and that only 20% of their customers actually game.

Voss
04-10-2015, 17:42
The answer to the American market would be working more closely with LGSs to make it easier and more profitable for them to stock GW games. Not opening stores. America is too spread out to have a store chain from scratch without mass appeal.
Eh? There isn't any from scratch. They've been throwing money at US stores for over 25 years now, despite how ineffective it is.

Wolf Lord Balrog
04-10-2015, 18:29
Eh? There isn't any from scratch. They've been throwing money at US stores for over 25 years now, despite how ineffective it is.

Exactly, totally ineffective. Might as well be from scratch.

Inquisitor Kallus
04-10-2015, 19:09
Canning WHFB is probably a grave mistake indeed if they plan on ever re-releasing it. AoS have given loads of people the mental push to move on from the game. It'll be significantly harder to bring those people back than it would have been to keep them invested out of habit.

If a proper WHFB mass battle game is released in a few years it'll have to compete for players with KoW and other games on a much more even footage than has been the case previously as WHFB, for all it's perceived faults, has undoubtedly been the market leader and default fantasy battle game system.

The specialist games could probably be quite popular if GW did a re-release though.

The games im talking about are more the specialist games. Atm they dont exist, whereas fantasy is still around in a way in the form of AOS

Zywus
04-10-2015, 19:49
fantasy is still around in a way in the form of AOS
In the same way Man'oWar wass around in the form of Dreadfleet. You could say it's "around in a way" but it's a totally different game.

Inquisitor Kallus
04-10-2015, 21:19
In the same way Man'oWar wass around in the form of Dreadfleet. You could say it's "around in a way" but it's a totally different game.

doesnt matter, in a way they are utilizzing fantasy. BFG, Epis, Blood Bowl etc are being used (computer games), theyre just not selling models

Kyriakin
05-10-2015, 12:03
The games im talking about are more the specialist games. Atm they dont exist, whereas fantasy is still around in a way in the form of AOS
The only thing about WHFB that still "exists" is the word 'Warhammer'. Statline, game mechanic, balance system, old world... everything else is gone.

If the new game was just called 'Age of Sigmar' would people still be saying "oh, you still have Warhammer Fantasy"? I doubt it...

Patriarch
05-10-2015, 17:28
doesnt matter, in a way they are utilizzing fantasy. BFG, Epis, Blood Bowl etc are being used (computer games), theyre just not selling models

They are selling models, just not direct from GW. :D

rcaugust
07-10-2015, 18:32
I do find it really odd that GW continually deny the importance of the Game aspect. If it is the minis which are important, why produce any games at all?

Why not sell their IP to a third party, who can produce games and codices, while GW produce supporting minis and rake in the licensing money? They could then expand their modelling remit to do models for other systems as they used to.

Their strategy seems so counter-intuitive to me. I don't get it at all...one of their investors posted on a trading thread that GW struck him as a company being 'profitably run down.' Such a weird, confused mixture of business practices etc does make you wonder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Inquisitor Kallus
08-10-2015, 22:34
The only thing about WHFB that still "exists" is the word 'Warhammer'. Statline, game mechanic, balance system, old world... everything else is gone.

If the new game was just called 'Age of Sigmar' would people still be saying "oh, you still have Warhammer Fantasy"? I doubt it...

Yeah, no Chaos, no Elves (aeulfs), undead etc with their new names, or personalities like Nagash or Tyrion or.......waitaminute.........




They are selling models, just not direct from GW. :D

Indeed, but id like to see more complete ranges, and some better quality stuff too. Theres some god stuff out there, like Onslaught games epic stand ins, but some of the designs are a bit naff, though they have some great ones too

Kahadras
09-10-2015, 00:40
Assassinorum was such a missed opportunity...

Agreed. I can't help but think how good the game might have been if GW had just taken things futher. How about different equipment for the assassins so you can pick and choose what they take on the mission? How about a new type of assassin? Why not take some ideas from Space Hulk like multiple different missions? How about a campaign set over several inter-linked games? Why not release rules for other possible enemies for the assassin to fight and then point players in the direction of their 40K range? The whole thing just felt lazy and rushed; little more than a vehicle to push the four new assassin models.

Herzlos
09-10-2015, 11:22
The whole thing just felt lazy and rushed; little more than a vehicle to push the four new assassin models.

That's all it was though; even the redshirt sold it to me as a cheap way to get the assassin models in advanced. He reckoned it'd be at least a £10 saving over buying them individually.

They really must be capable of producing better games than what they are putting out now.

Kahadras
09-10-2015, 11:54
That's all it was though; even the redshirt sold it to me as a cheap way to get the assassin models in advanced.

Exactly. GW are apparantly telling us that their games are the key for them but then we get tat like Execution force which seems little more than a vehicle to sell assassin models. They might be capable of producing better games but the company focus isn't on the quality of their games; it's on selling expencive minatures and expencive limited edition books.

I'm trying not to be cynical but did GW really ditch the Warhammer world and completely change the setting to bring us a brand new high quality game? Or did some suit decide that Warhammer needed Space Marines?

Niall78
09-10-2015, 13:05
I'm trying not to be cynical but did GW really ditch the Warhammer world and completely change the setting to bring us a brand new high quality game? Or did some suit decide that Warhammer needed Space Marines?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

The polls on Warseer tell their own story. Most people wouldn't look twice at the AoS system if it didn't have GW on the box. Most of those who do play AoS feel the need to heavily comp the rules as written to make those rules playable. Not the reaction a person would expect from a brand new high quality game.

Buddy Bear
09-10-2015, 13:17
Yep. Meanwhile, I'm getting into Kings of War and Warmachine and thus far I haven't felt the need to come up with any house rules to play them with, much less a massive house rule document which dwarfs the original rules for those games.

Herzlos
09-10-2015, 13:50
The polls on Warseer tell their own story. Most people wouldn't look twice at the AoS system if it didn't have GW on the box. Most of those who do play AoS feel the need to heavily comp the rules as written to make those rules playable. Not the reaction a person would expect from a brand new high quality game.

To add a bit of balance - you can still have fun with a terrible game in the right context.

Niall78
09-10-2015, 13:57
To add a bit of balance - you can still have fun with a terrible game in the right context.

Of course you can. I'm sure even Amber Diceless is fun after fifteen or so beers.

Lars Porsenna
09-10-2015, 15:33
Of course you can. I'm sure even Amber Diceless is fun after fifteen or so beers.

The main GM in our RPG group periodically trots out Amber Diceless as a game suggestion, but no one really trusts a diceless game. Seems gimmicky to me...

Damon.

Bloodknight
09-10-2015, 15:52
but no one really trusts a diceless game

You should try Diplomacy at some point. As to RPGs, it works for this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_%28role-playing_game%29 - to be honest, it's much better in the German arcana version than as a D20 game like the English version. You do need grown-ups to play it, though. (not saying it's a fantastic game, the fluff isn't really for me, but it plays handsomely if you work with people who can agree that another player actually pulled off a cool action or if the players agree that maybe their idea wasn't so great and that not every card means that they just put armageddon on the enemy creature, but that sometimes you need to describe how your guy kisses the ground).

If you need inspiration, In the Nursery made an album based on the game, here's a song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syno9R1nFFg

Hishbishy
09-10-2015, 17:16
And on this they've since said to investors that games aren't key to them, and that only 20% of their customers actually game.

This really bears repeating.

If you want to know a company's outlook on something, you don't ask their advertising, you ask their investors.

Kahadras
10-10-2015, 02:06
This really bears repeating.

Yeah and it also shows exactly where GW is going to die. If they think only 20% of their customers are gamers then they are headed for a really big suprise (obviously they know that 80% of all of their customers are are 'collectors' due to the fact that they don't need to do market research). I'll put it simply; if GW lose the gamers then they lose the hobby. Collectors don't make up 80% of the GW customer base. They make up about 5% (if GW are lucky). Most of us are here to play the games. Without the games GW have nothing. There's a part of me willing GW to drop AoS and 40K just to see how long the company would survive for based on that '80% collectors theory'.

SuperHappyTime
12-10-2015, 00:06
Games Workshop: 50% Games, 50% Workshop.


To add a bit of balance - you can still have fun with a terrible game in the right context.

Apples to Apples (Or Cards Against Humanity if you're more adult) comes to mind. Not too strategic, but get the giggles going and the game is great.

Kyriakin
12-10-2015, 02:46
But would you pay hundreds of pounds and invest hundreds of hobby hours into something for a few "guggles" after 6 pints?

williamsond
12-10-2015, 09:23
Just as an interesting point I met a collecter last weekend while visiting warhammer world (in the flesh he wasnt a figment of my imagination honest), he was the first pure collector I've ever met in 25 years of being in the hobby but they do exist, he seemed to be all about buying forge world to finish an ultra marine collection. He was also an ex GW employee so maybe he was the guy they talked to when they decided every one was a collector above all else.

The_Real_Chris
12-10-2015, 11:12
Could AoS be adapted to use the crossbows and catapults system? :)

BFalcon
12-10-2015, 11:45
But would you pay hundreds of pounds and invest hundreds of hobby hours into something for a few "guggles" after 6 pints?

good point: you can get the same effect from a 30-year-old Sinclair Spectrum and Gauntlet (for example) after that much beer... let alone many other activities, which don't need anywhere near as much preparation. Heck, even a themed monopoly game gets fun after THAT much beer (try insisting that people imitate their piece every time they move - preferably a quote that's relevant to the result they land on... works brilliantly - if the others agree that it wasn't THAT relevant or good, they have to drink more beer...).

Arguments that "a game is good after beer" isn't that strong an argument, sadly... with a little imagination, (nearly) ANY game turns good after enough alcohol.

williamsond
12-10-2015, 13:06
Could AoS be adapted to use the crossbows and catapults system? :)

may be chris but with the added volume of rules needed could that put the hordes of new gamers off...

ebbwar
12-10-2015, 23:12
may be chris but with the added volume of rules needed could that put the hordes of new gamers off...

Hordes of new gamers? Where? Oh wait thought you meant hordes of new gamers to Ao$ for a moment... ;)