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ChaosGrobi
08-10-2015, 16:47
Hi folks,

a couple of friends and me started AOS in summer (and we like it!!!). But I feel like I need some pew pew action and a bit more in depth tactics. I love the 30k setting, especially Lorgar and his Word Bearers.
So, I need some suggestions from you:
1) I never played 40k before. Beside the costs, would you say is it a good idea to start with HH right away?
2) What are those HH plastic things everybody talks about? The sound of it scares me, i thought HH was FW only :wtf:
3) How to start? Im thinking about buying Lorgar for fun/painting reasons first but what next? The 40k rulebook for obvious reasons and maybe one of those HH books, which one?
4) Better wait a bit, at least until christmas to see what happens? They are not going to AOSify 30k/40k, arent they?

thanks for your input

Formerly Wu
08-10-2015, 17:14
1) Besides the cost, I would be aware that Forge World resin models are a bit trickier to work with than GW plastic. If you're new to modeling, I would suggest spending a little extra time practicing with a hobby knife before diving in and potentially ruining a model.

2) Indications are strong that GW is releasing a plastic Horus Heresy boxed game. Right now, nobody knows much more than that. This is likely to be a good thing for Heresy players, as it will provide a cheaper source of "basic" marine models.

3) Rules for the Word Bearers are included in Book 2: Massacre and are adapted/expanded in Book 5: Tempest. You will also need the basic Legion list provided in Book 1: Betrayal. Forge World provides cheaper books with just the rules provided (Crusade Army List and Isstvan Campaign Army list), but then you lose out on all the excellent campaign fluff which is the real draw of the Heresy imo.

Personally, I would start with a few basic troopers, and then practice your modeling and test paint schemes before jumping into centerpieces like Lorgar. But if that's what floats your boat, go for it.

4) Predictions are hard, especially about the future. Do what feels right to you.

Best of luck.

ChaosGrobi
08-10-2015, 21:45
Honestly, I was more concerned about the rules and the game. I think my modeling/painting is quite decent and I did some resin before. But no wargaming miniatures, though. Anyway, your advice sounds reasonable. I guess I'll give it a shot starting with basic troopers. Lorgar for christmas then :D

Thank you

Zujara
09-10-2015, 02:38
1) I love HH and recommend it, but if you are worried about the future you could either wait or maybe take a slower approach to building your force.

2) As mentioned, it is a boxed game GW is making. I think it has mk iv marines in it, so if you wanted to use that armour mark then it would be a cheaper way to fill out your basic marines and I think they are suppose to be compatible with the FW upgrade kits too. Can't say anything for certain until we see it though.

3) Word Bearers rules require them to take 2 compulsory HQ, 1 of which has to be a Centurion or Chaplain so plan around that. Erebus, Kor Phaeron and Zardu Layak allow you to take Daemons as allies which can be fun (As does the Rite of War for Word Bearers, but I have never taken that). Lorgar is a great model, but keep in mind that in HH you can't take a LoW until 2k and it can be no more than 25% of your total (Both versions of Lorgar fit in a 2k list though!)

Speaking of army construction, the FoC is similar to combined arms but you get an extra HQ and Elite slot while the allied detachment is more limiting. I would recommend starting out with the 2 HQ and 2 Troops, and adding what you like after that. Gal Vorbak both look and perform great so I recommend them highly. The books Formerly Wu listed have all the rules you need for your Legion.

4) Agree with Formerly Wu, can't say with 100% certainty what the future holds so what you do is entirely up to you.

ChaosGrobi
09-10-2015, 04:18
Speaking of army construction, the FoC is similar to combined arms but you get an extra HQ and Elite slot while the allied detachment is more limiting. I would recommend starting out with the 2 HQ and 2 Troops, and adding what you like after that. Gal Vorbak both look and perform great so I recommend them highly. The books Formerly Wu listed have all the rules you need for your Legion.


Man you got me there. It took me some serious googling. As I said, I never played 40k before. I appreciate your respsonse nevertheless, sounds like a plan.

Zujara
09-10-2015, 04:28
Man you got me there. It took me some serious googling. As I said, I never played 40k before. I appreciate your respsonse nevertheless, sounds like a plan.

Sorry, used abbreviations and such out of habit. If it helps, for the core of the army, I usually use High Chaplain Erebus, a normal Chaplain, a 20 man Tactical Squad and a 10 man Tactical Squad in a Rhino.

agurus1
09-10-2015, 06:15
You can buy the smaller red books if you just want the rules for Legions army list and for the specific Legion rules of the word bearers (plus the rest of the Istvann legions) ends up being cheaper in the long run but your don't have all that cool background and imagery of the bigger books. I would do as the others recommend, start small 1 HQ and 2 Troops.

Honestly I've played with 30k for a while and just started a small 30k gaming group (it's LA based), and it's a blast. Honestly have a much better time playing it that I ever really did playing 40k.

Spiney Norman
09-10-2015, 08:46
Hi folks,

a couple of friends and me started AOS in summer (and we like it!!!). But I feel like I need some pew pew action and a bit more in depth tactics. I love the 30k setting, especially Lorgar and his Word Bearers.
So, I need some suggestions from you:
1) I never played 40k before. Beside the costs, would you say is it a good idea to start with HH right away?
2) What are those HH plastic things everybody talks about? The sound of it scares me, i thought HH was FW only :wtf:
3) How to start? Im thinking about buying Lorgar for fun/painting reasons first but what next? The 40k rulebook for obvious reasons and maybe one of those HH books, which one?
4) Better wait a bit, at least until christmas to see what happens? They are not going to AOSify 30k/40k, arent they?

thanks for your input

Personally I love the Horus heresy game from Forgeworld, my only regret is not making the jump from 40k earlier, it essential is 40k with all the whappy, game-breaking bits taken out. On the other hand Heresy games tend to be larger than 40k games, partly because point costs are slightly higher and minimum unit sizes are generally larger in heresy and partly because everything is rather more destructive in heresy so you end up taking things off the table a bit faster. All this, combined with the higher by-in cost of Heresy means it might take rather longer to get a working force to the table in Heresy than it would in regular 40k.

To illustrate I bought my first few 30k bits at Christmas last year and I've just got a 2k army to the table in the last month or so (though your hobby budget might well be more forgiving than mine).

If it is Word Bearers you want to run you will need the Crusade army list book (Thin red book with the imperial Aquila on the front) and HH book 5: Tempest, which has the most up to date word bearers rules in, plus loads of excellent background and scenarios surrounding the invasion of Calth.

A word of caution at this point, these two books alone will cost you 100, Heresy takes the expense required to play GW games in general and dials it up to 100.

As a few others have said, rumours abound of a plastic heresy boxed set released by GW (and some photos have been seen), no firm release date has been put forward for this yet (vague suggestions of October or November this year have been offered), but it is generally believed to be coming out by the end of the year.

To that end I would advise against buying any basic marines, assault marines or terminators from FW, as you might find a cheaper plastic alternative becomes available soon. There is also rumoured to be a contempt or dreadnought in the box, so it might be best to hold off on that too.

What you can can safely look at buying would be any Legion characters you like (you already mentioned Lorgar) and any of the legion unique units; Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gal and Ashen Circle, which most definitely won't be moving to plastic any time soon.

Just be aware with Lorgar that he costs 450pts and is a Lord of War slot, so you won't be able to field him in games of under 2000pts following the age of darkness rules. On the other hand if you just want to paint him, he is a gorgeous model, that is probable reason enough.

There is widespread concern that GW main are going to screw the pooch with the rules of their 30k boxed set, which may well be the case, however the impression I get is that Forgeworld are committed to their 30k project long term, so whatever GW main choose to do with that era they will keep producing their high quality Age of Darkness expansion for the 40k game.

ChaosGrobi
09-10-2015, 18:54
Personally I love the Horus heresy game from Forgeworld, my only regret is not making the jump from 40k earlier, it essential is 40k with all the whappy, game-breaking bits taken out. On the other hand Heresy games tend to be larger than 40k games, partly because point costs are slightly higher and minimum unit sizes are generally larger in heresy and partly because everything is rather more destructive in heresy so you end up taking things off the table a bit faster. All this, combined with the higher by-in cost of Heresy means it might take rather longer to get a working force to the table in Heresy than it would in regular 40k.

Sounds great!


To illustrate I bought my first few 30k bits at Christmas last year and I've just got a 2k army to the table in the last month or so (though your hobby budget might well be more forgiving than mine).

I think that actually quite fast, isn't it?



Heresy takes the expense required to play GW games in general and dials it up to 100.

Heck yes it does!



What you can can safely look at buying would be any Legion characters you like (you already mentioned Lorgar) and any of the legion unique units; Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gal and Ashen Circle, which most definitely won't be moving to plastic any time soon [...] On the other hand if you just want to paint him, he is a gorgeous model, that is probable reason enough.

Thats what made me interested in in 30k in the first place. I am not quite sure yet, but I think I will to do it like that. Grab a character model or two and see what is going to happen. Time will tell. I'll let you know.

Thanks guys, great effort!

agurus1
09-10-2015, 19:51
Honestly the only power armor mark in plastic we have seen is MkIV. So if you don't want your legion equipped with that mark (I'm aiming for MkII and MkIII for my iron warriors) there is little sense in waiting for the plastics imho.

ChaosGrobi
09-10-2015, 20:02
Yeah, I thought about that, too. I like MkIII the most. But I haven't read any fluff, yet. So its hard to make a decision right now. But no worries, I see it more as a long term project. Quite busy with the Goretide atm.

Ben
10-10-2015, 13:33
I'd start with Lorgar or some Gal Vorbak, and see what comes out in the next month. If it is a boxed set with 40 Mk IV, 10 Terminators and 2 Contemptors, then you've got your first 1500 points almost straight away.

You can use some plastic options (Rhinos, Predators, Landspeeders, Mk IV dreadnoughts, land raiders).

Since Word Bearers are the most corrupted from the start, I used Helbrutes for my Dreadnought Talon, and I'm mixing Dark Vengeance Chosen into my marines (as well as just using plastic chaos marine pieces).

It depends how you want to do your list. For Word Bearers you will probably want 2 squads of 20 marines and you need 2 HQs, so start with that (and a squad of Gal Vorbak, they're great) and go from there.

Spiney Norman
10-10-2015, 16:05
Yeah, I thought about that, too. I like MkIII the most. But I haven't read any fluff, yet. So its hard to make a decision right now. But no worries, I see it more as a long term project. Quite busy with the Goretide atm.

In the heresy novels it seems that Word Bearers used a lot of MkIV, certainly the gal Vorbak and Erebus & Zardu are based off that mark. The Serrated sons chapter received their red Mkiv plate before Istvann v, however in The Purge the story follows a chapter that are equipped primarily with MkIII so it's fair to say you're probably OK to use whatever mks you like, it was a big legion, there was probably someone somewhere using mks ii-iv.

ChaosGrobi
11-10-2015, 12:48
There is some leisure time incoming next month. I will dig into the fluff. But in the end I am the visual type. The look beats the fluff...

Vos
11-10-2015, 22:16
Buy some Forgeworld books and root on the net.
Carefully choose your Marine Legion....
Then spend hundreds on Forgeworld resin.

That's my advice - you won't regret it if you enjoy collecting, painting and modelling.
I'd hold off worrying about rules as by the time you have a playable force, GW will have released the new Horus Heresy game and then you can choose whetehr to go 40K, 'Red Book' 30K or the new Horus Heresy rules.

Vos (Deep into a big Death Guard project!)

ChaosGrobi
07-11-2015, 11:16
Sorry for thread necromancing but things have changed a bit. Would you say starting with the new FW Word Bearers Task Force bundle is a good idea? Its quite tempting but a LOT of models and all MKIV :confused:

Spiney Norman
07-11-2015, 22:51
Sorry for thread necromancing but things have changed a bit. Would you say starting with the new FW Word Bearers Task Force bundle is a good idea? Its quite tempting but a LOT of models and all MKIV :confused:

Personally no I wouldn't, you're saving next to nothing in that bundle so I'd save a bunch of money by skimping a bit on your upgrade parts and use the money you save to buy a tank or something.

The word bearer heads are regular mkivs with a bit of decoration, they fit in fine by just using a few here and there rather than replacing every helmet with resin. In addition the is no point at all replacing torsos on tactical marines, I did this on a bunch of resin mkivs when my put together my first tactical squad and the models are all holding their boltguns in exactly the right place to hide their special chest-plates.

If it were me I'd order enough shoulder pads to do all the models and maybe one set of heads to share around. Torsos work ok on your sergeants (because they tend not to carry a boltguns across their chest) so maybe one pack of five torsos to make your command models special.

DuskRaider
07-11-2015, 23:23
I second what Norman says. The torsos are nigh useless, as the Bolters block out any detail on them anyhow. Unless you run a Pride of the Legion force and pick up one of the Special Weapons packs like so: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NZ/Legion-MKIV-Power-Weapons-Set then you're better off just picking up the heads. You can run a 1500 - 2000 point list with just the contents of the box set, so it's a great jump off point. Alternatively, you can also just pick up some regular 40K Assault Marine arms and make Despoilers, although I think you'll get more bang for your buck with Veterans (especially using the Sniper rule).

agurus1
08-11-2015, 01:31
I'd just buy the boxed set from GW and save by just buying shoulder pads and vehicles that you can't get in plastic from FW.

DarkMark
08-11-2015, 08:33
If you're a 30k WB fan then check out this guy's blog (http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8020), and then Tzen's (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?192452-Tzen-s-Word-Bearer-s-blog) more 40k orientated version. For great army showcases and bat reps then this channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ4JuMCI3YY&list=PLGYpaXkwKtqnlRam_dArFHQMPZzc2Y9LO) is very good.

Killgore
08-11-2015, 14:23
Have a read of this, it may be from the armpit of the internet but its not a bad guide to all things 30K

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_%2830k%29

Ben
08-11-2015, 16:52
People are talking about shoulderpads, but why not just use the transfer sheets FW have released for some of the legions?

With 30 tacs, get a set of ten heads for variety and the transfers, and you should be set.

You could use the torsos with sergeants who don't have their arms across their chests to represent artificer armour though.

ChaosGrobi
08-11-2015, 17:46
Thanks for the input. Appreciate it!

Spiney Norman
08-11-2015, 23:19
It might be worth thinking what chapter you want to run as well (if you're into that level of detail for your forces)

Iirc the Forgeworld transfer sheet has transfers for the serrated Suns (Argel Tals original chapter, destroyed at Isstvan V), the Unspeaking (Zardu Layak is the chapter master) and the Graven Star (Hol Beloth is the chapter master, the chapter was left behind on Calth), also the Betrayal boxed set contains transfers for the Twisting rune chapter (also left behind on Calth). There are other chapters recorded in the background too, but you'd need to paint their icons on freehand and some of them can be quite complex.

If you're looking for a more Heresy oriented forum I'd recommend Heresy 30k (http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com) which has a whole bunch of word bearer army project logs (including mine).