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Vet.Sister
07-07-2006, 21:29
Assume that you and your opponent have just had the absolutely most FUN, enjoyable game possible. (for BOTH of you!)

Is winning is still more fun than losing?

yes/no

EDIT: the question should read "Assuming both sides had fun, is winning more fun than losing"

Kamin_Majere
07-07-2006, 21:32
No.

All things being equal, you've had a fun game and thats all thats really important IMO.

Winning is nice but's never been required to me.

||-MARKO-||
07-07-2006, 21:34
absoultely not.i actually enjoy losing in a good game as much as i do winning. like last saturdy, my friends chaos sorceror (40k) was unrelenting on my veteran squad. the veterans held out against the fury of the warp for ages, and only in the last few turns did they reach the sorceror in CC, with only the sergeant left. unfortunately, the was slain in the first turn of combat :D

ArtificerArmour
07-07-2006, 21:36
What's the point of playing if you don't try to win? Playing to lose is a stupid way to play a game. I'd hate my opponant to not try.

ArtificerArmour
07-07-2006, 21:40
Oh, yeah. I don't mind losing if it's hard fought. If its down to hideous bad luck, it isn't fun.

robertsjf
07-07-2006, 21:41
Is this tourney setting or does the game have a fluff background?

Warboss Grimmtoof
07-07-2006, 21:41
No... I play orkies fer one reason, I DONT CARE ABOUT VIKKITORY! And anyways orks always win, no matter what happens. I care more about laughing when a trukk speeds into a bomb or a grot kills an ethereal (true story). Victory is great yadda yadda yadda, but I went into GT for the first time in baltimore, and it was way too competitive. IW, eldar with so many starcannons i was seeing stars, and an armored company? If you **** someone off for the glory that you can move a painted piece of metal better than making a friend and having some fun, that I really wouldnt play this game.

Kriegsherr
07-07-2006, 21:42
Best thing that can happen is a close, narrative game. And if I loose after a hard fight, even better. Good stories need dramatic scenes and heroic last stands. Makes the next scenario even more thrilling as you get the chance to turn the tide.

Kymar
07-07-2006, 21:42
I agree with ArtificerArmour, I hate it when I lose to just bad luck, it really sucks. If lose to my own bad decisions, its just funny.

kermit
07-07-2006, 21:43
I said "Nah"... I personally go into a game to have a good time. So, if the game was one to brag about, to relive after the game... then that to me a win no matter what.

Unseeing Eye
07-07-2006, 21:44
As long as it is close and hard fought, yes I would rather win. :)

EDIT: Doesn't mean I wouldn't have fun losing in a close game though.

smokingmonkee
07-07-2006, 21:45
If the game is fun then losing is ok, but when it comes to bad luck costing you the game that sucks. As Kymar said when my generalship is sub par it's ok. Strangely the most fun I've had has been in games that were draws

loco_smoko
07-07-2006, 21:50
Like most have said, if we both played as hard as we could and have given it the best shot we could and I came out as the loser then I would enjoy that as much as winning.
But there are always rematches :D
I'm not going into a game with the intent of losing although it would make for an interesting victory condition, trying to have the least men left at the end of a game.
And at the end of the day we are playing a game with little plastic soldiers so we should be striving to have fun or else we'd be a pretty sad bunch.

Cheers

Jerry

draco1387
07-07-2006, 21:55
Warhammer is a game so it really doesn't matter if you win or lose but how much fun you have while playing. Right?

starlight
07-07-2006, 21:55
Since GW games use dice, luck is always a factor. Given this basic concept, I have difficulty caring about winning or losing. I prefer close games, especially those which are down to the last rolls, however the stories that come out of these games are far more interesting (to me) than the actual outcomes.

That said - I play to have fun and to win, but I don't *care* about the outcome of a game of toy soldiers.

Venomizer
07-07-2006, 22:02
wins & losses are meaningless but in saying that I do try my damnest to win - I view it as an insult to myself & my opponent if I did otherwise

fun for all parties involved is of paramount importance to me, the result of the battle itself is insignificant, if I win, I win, if I dont, I dont.........it's no biggie to me either way, if a couple of good narratives can be picked out and all involved had fun then I'm happy

Khaine's Messenger
07-07-2006, 22:11
If both sides have fun, then that's all that matters. Of course, there are those who get their jollies by playing competatively and winning, so I think the premise of the question is somewhat flawed, but that's not really important in the most general case. This isn't saying I play to lose, since I try (pathetically) to play to win, but that I recognize there's no reason to play if you're not enjoying it.

Unless you're a proponent of the "the only way to enjoy your job is to have a hobby that's even worse" philosophy. :)

Overlord Krycis
07-07-2006, 22:14
I play to...well...play. I would rather have fun than win to be honest if I had to make a choice.
I couldn't care less whether I win or lose as long as I enjoyed the game.

Karma
07-07-2006, 22:35
Oh, yeah. I don't mind losing if it's hard fought. If its down to hideous bad luck, it isn't fun.

:cool: I agree with this.....If I lose by my own bad decisions I can live with it......but if its just the dice I don't like it

Why do I play a dice game then ??:angel:

Imperial Stormtrooper
07-07-2006, 22:45
i just dont care whether i win or not unless its a tourney or something. I usually have a lot of fun whether im slaughtered or my opponet is or if its really close. there are a few people i just dont have fun with at all.

Getz
07-07-2006, 23:05
Okay, honestly - yes absolutely I want to win. I'd be pretty insulted if I discovered an opponent was trying to loose against me (takes away all the satisfaction of actually having beaten someone, you see) and treat my opponents accordingly.

However, I do think this should be subservient to playing a good game. Last Wednesday I played one of those games (against Dakkagor as it happens) where evrything went my way and Dakkagor had no luck at all. By turn three it was effectively all over and it was no fun for either of us... I almost felt too ashamed to log the victory on the Medusa V website.

However, if it's an even, fair fight and we're both having fun then Damn Straight I'll go for your jugular - and I won't let go until you're dead...

So long as it's all fun... ;)

Steel_Legion
07-07-2006, 23:13
as long as i have fun, i dont care if i win, it gets annoying if you loose badly, but in a tight game, even if you loose, but it was really exciting, i dont care

Justicar_Freezer
07-07-2006, 23:14
Hmm to be honest I play to just play. The group I play with are only concerned with having fun. We throw together little mini-campaigns and always try to spin our battles into stories. So yeah winning is nice I won't deny it. But even if my entire grey knight army is taken down to a man, as long as the game was a good one and the story that comes from it is an interesting tale then I don't care if I win. To be honest a lose with a great story behind it makes a perfect set up for a rematch.

Chem-Dog
07-07-2006, 23:15
Some of my most enjoyable games have been ones I lost and some of my least enjoyable ones have seen me crush an opponant without a hope, everybody likes to win but I would rather both sides enjoyed the game, I never feel like I NEED to win, it just gives you gloating rights :evilgrin:


I'd be pretty insulted if I discovered an opponent was trying to loose against me

There's a difference between trying to loose and going all out to win, like I said everybody likes to win but winning at all costs is a different beast all together, Cheating and Cheese lists are both borne from the compulsion to win regardless of the cost. I'll always play to win but within the boundaries of the letter and the spirit of the game rules.

Expanding the question slightly, in a campaign where variable army sizes are likely, would you be happy to fight a vastly superior force, even though defeat was all but assured?

Getz
07-07-2006, 23:24
Expanding the question slightly, in a campaign where variable army sizes are likely, would you be happy to fight a vastly superior force, even though defeat was all but assured?

Yes, In fact I've done it several times in the past. I enjoy the challenge - after all, even when massively out numbered it is still possible to win if you're smart or your opponent isn't... (Indeed, on one notable occasion I managed to defeat 2000 points of IG with 1000 points of Blood Pact :evilgrin: - although it's fair to say my opponent was one of the most incompetent 40K players I know. He also had terrible luck with leadership tests and a good deal of his army fell back off the table in the first couple of turns...)

vampires are cool!
07-07-2006, 23:32
as a skaven player i generaly look on victory as mild side affect of having fun with my rats. i played six games in a row once and lost four times, but seeing my army fry itself and run away [i've invented several house rules simlpy for the fun of killing my own troops] was the best part.

primarch16
07-07-2006, 23:55
Absolutely NOT. Unless you are in a tournament in which case winning is the objective. But at the end of the day, it is a game, you play a game, you play a game in order to acheive enjoyment.

athamas
08-07-2006, 00:45
i play to have fun, and see what stupid reason my army can come up with for loosing this time!

Unseeing Eye
08-07-2006, 00:55
Oh, as an addition to what I said earlier:

If I'm slaughtering an opponent and victory seems a certainty, losing at the last minute would actually make a better game. Like the time my Necrons were pasting Tau only to have 15 warriors run down by 2 Stealth Suits--phase out with 3 Tau models left. :)

Gabriel
08-07-2006, 01:03
I hate losing. It's just the way I am. I do however enjoy a close run game more than anything. But then I like to win it. I know it's selfish but I can't do anything about it and I'm just being honest. The fact is that even when you're being slaughtered, there's the chance your luck could turn and you could win a great victory. That's what makes it fun, as well as insane dice rolls twists of fate, heroism etc.

Adept
08-07-2006, 01:30
I always play to win, and I don't pull any punches.

The only time I'll play at less than full throttle is when I'm teaching someone the rules, or playing a n00b who still needs to learn the tricks of the trade.

Now, I'd prefer to lose a fun game, than win a crap game, but if all other things are equal, I prefer to win. It's a small salve for the ego.

Playa
08-07-2006, 03:05
Hey,

We've all heard the 'losing isn't fun' sentiment expressed before.

IMO, it's senseless to play team games with this mentality. Why?

Fact: Statistically, half the games you don't draw *will* be losses.

Thus, you've decided to not have fun in nearly half your games.

QED


Playa

Wraithbored
08-07-2006, 03:10
Winning is nice but by no means comuplsory, if we both played our hearts out and I still loose, well them's the brakes!I never play to loose but sometimes it's just the fate of things and my incompetence that looses me the game. Perhaps next time i'll win and if not then, then the next time, as long as I have fun

Shadowheart
08-07-2006, 14:03
Man, what a lot of wimps around here.

The main thing is that the game is enjoyable and challenging, but those are requirements, not aims. And I don't see how a game would be very enjoyable, let alone challenging, if the players didn't really try to win. You've got to care about winning, you've got to risk losing.
It's not a choice between either having fun or playing competitively, nor is it a choice between being fun or competitive. The two go together, and they work better that way.

Gabriel
08-07-2006, 14:22
Hey,

We've all heard the 'losing isn't fun' sentiment expressed before.

IMO, it's senseless to play team games with this mentality. Why?

Fact: Statistically, half the games you don't draw *will* be losses.

Thus, you've decided to not have fun in nearly half your games.

QED


Playa

Crap. Sorry I just don't agree. As Winston Churchill famously said:

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, Damn lies, and Statistics!"

Master Jeridian
08-07-2006, 17:09
IMO, this poll is bogus. It's similar to:

Do you like Space Marines?

Yes.

Yes.

Definitely, yes.

I.e. the options are seriously biased.

Your first option- Absolutely- implies that the person holds winning above having fun, as though the two are mutually exclusive. It is as though they are shocked at you considering anything but winning fun.

The second- Nah, I never care about winning- is equally extreme. Why play a game against someone if you aren't trying to win?

For most of us (I assume) the answer is the third option.

You go into a game with the intention of winning, but also to have a fun game. So even if you eventually lose, but it was hard-fought and a lot of stupid things happen (as often do when dice are involved) of course it was worth it. But of course, doing all that and winning is better- it's icing on the cake.

sigur
08-07-2006, 17:11
It's really an odd poll. Especially since there are so many different definitions of "fun for both players" and so on. 40k General polls are getting weirder and weirder.

Son of the Lion
08-07-2006, 17:13
Man, what a lot of wimps around here.

The main thing is that the game is enjoyable and challenging, but those are requirements, not aims. And I don't see how a game would be very enjoyable, let alone challenging, if the players didn't really try to win. You've got to care about winning, you've got to risk losing.
It's not a choice between either having fun or playing competitively, nor is it a choice between being fun or competitive. The two go together, and they work better that way.

Man, there are some judgemental people around here. :p
Firstly, I don't think the majority of the posters are actually saying the two are mutually exclusive, just that they enjoy a good game regardless of the outcome. Secondly, although it's true a competetive game is often a fun one (friendly rivalry makes most things more exciting), I disagree it's a neccessity. I for one enjoy playing games for the sheer pleasure of the spectacle, particularly when it involves some unusual/new dimension - extra large armies or some fantastic new piece of scenery for example. Playing a game because you want to see how your army works/looks on the battlefield can be a lot of fun too, and doesn't neccessarily involve playing competetively. Winning is always nice, but sometimes it genuinely is an added bonus to other aspects of the game.

EDIT: I agree this poll is a bit bogus, and as I mentioned, fun is different for everyone.

Shadowheart
08-07-2006, 18:13
Firstly, I don't think the majority of the posters are actually saying the two are mutually exclusive, just that they enjoy a good game regardless of the outcome.

That's not the question though. The question states that the game is good, both players are having fun. So to your "yes" or "no" answer, that stuff is irrelevant.

I think the people of Warseer are just taking yet another chance to stress how absolutely fantabulous, kind-hearted and fun-loving they are. So much better than all those mean people who try to win their games. It's like the posts in the "would you have a problem with this" threads.

What I mean is, you're allowed to prefer one thing over the other, to rather win than lose. People shouldn't feel that indicating a preference for one thing implies they want to have that at all costs and don't appreciate or value anything else.
To me indicating that you have no preference implies you've got no opinion, claiming you don't care about something implies apathy, and that's no fun at all.

starlight
08-07-2006, 18:28
*You* might think that...................:eyebrows:

But the rest of us are off having fun and playing games and not caring about the outcome.

Life is much better when people stop *looking* for reasons to be offended or attempting to pigeonhole others into their own viewpoints. Why put so much energy into defending an irrelevant position?

Son of the Lion
08-07-2006, 18:30
That's not the question though. The question states that the game is good, both players are having fun. So to your "yes" or "no" answer, that stuff is irrelevant.


Hey, you brought it up, not me.


I think the people of Warseer are just taking yet another chance to stress how absolutely fantabulous, kind-hearted and fun-loving they are. So much better than all those mean people who try to win their games. It's like the posts in the "would you have a problem with this" threads.

What I mean is, you're allowed to prefer one thing over the other, to rather win than lose. People shouldn't feel that indicating a preference for one thing implies they want to have that at all costs and don't appreciate or value anything else.
To me indicating that you have no preference implies you've got no opinion, claiming you don't care about something implies apathy, and that's no fun at all.

:eyebrows: I can't work out if you're being condescending or just overly cynical. The latter I hope....

CrimsonTider
08-07-2006, 18:40
I can honestly say it depends upon which army I am playing...

Most of the time, I do not care who wins or loses, as long as we both have fun. A hard fought game that comes down the with wire with laughs and groans on both sides makes for a great game, and I certainly do not mind losing to a fun and gracious opponent.

However, when playing my "Crimson Tide" space marine list, I do not like to lose at all. As long as my opponents idea of fun is tasting my crimson-colored ceramite-armored boot, we should both a great time.

Seriously, winning is fine, but I would rather lose in a fun game than win in a boring one.

starlight
08-07-2006, 18:53
Da Blood Axe Ladz'll be 'appy ta fix dat attitude youse gots and make da big 'ard red 'oomies cry like pansies.:D

Of course Orks nevah lose, so there.:p

And *all* of my best games are the down-to-the-wire ones regardless of who won.:D After all we *are* playing games of Toy Soldiers. It's not like it's anything *serious*.:eyebrows:

thanoson
08-07-2006, 18:54
My best games are sometimes when the dice are totally against me. It makes me play harder to win. Desperation sets in and I try different stuff. I love a good challenge. And, I play just for the sake of playing.

Bladewind
08-07-2006, 18:55
When the game was both fun and good, winning is like icing on a cake IMO.
For me, yes.

Maxis Lithium
08-07-2006, 19:35
Greetings.

I only ever worry when I'm on a loseing streek. I don't like to have my wins OR losses to sit above 50-60%. I like average things. I assume average dice rolls, which I usually get. I play a balenced force and believe (perhaps wishfully) that 40K is a relativly balenced game. That said, when I notice that I'm winning It's a nice confidence booster. When I notice I'm looseing, it chalenges me to step my game up a notch.

Getifa Ubazza
08-07-2006, 19:35
The way i play means it doesnt matter if i win or lose. With my orks or nids i want to swamp my opponent, if i do that then i win even if i lose the game. With my marines, im more into last stand type of games so i give my self a few objectives to complete before my army dies, if i do that then i win. Again even if i lose the game overall. So for me i already have things that i want to achieve in a game before the game begins. Winning is secondry to my personal goals in the game.

Shadowheart
08-07-2006, 21:27
Life is much better when people stop *looking* for reasons to be offended or attempting to pigeonhole others into their own viewpoints. Why put so much energy into defending an irrelevant position?

I don't know what you're on about there. Just pointing out that you're being hip by not giving a toss, and I'm being decidedly uncool by not taking the safest stance?


Hey, you brought it up, not me.

Which "it" would that be?


I can't work out if you're being condescending or just overly cynical. The latter I hope....

Well, let's just say I'm not surprised that you can't work it out. Does that help?

A neutral shade of black.
08-07-2006, 21:45
you and your opponent have just had the absolutely most FUN, enjoyable game possible. (for BOTH of you!)

Emphasis mine, and that isn't enough emphasis, then I'd say yes - winning is more fun than losing. That said, losing can bring you more than winning does, so it's up to you - learn or have fun?

The Purple Ninja
08-07-2006, 22:00
Here is my post that mentions the words "lose", "win", and "care".

Add "do" or "don't" depending on which side you'd like to add a post to.

Dakkagor
08-07-2006, 23:02
The fact is that even when you're being slaughtered, there's the chance your luck could turn and you could win a great victory. That's what makes it fun, as well as insane dice rolls twists of fate, heroism etc.

Very true. Getz mentioned that game last wednesday. Before that almighty smeg up, I managed to pull of a blinding turn around against the Ravenwing, which made me look like some kind of tactical genius. And the dice where still against me. . .

Overall, I go into every game fully loaded, gunz blazing. Never half measures (no one used half measures against me at any point, even when I was learning, and I always learnt more from defeat than victory). I play every game to win, to crush my enemy totally, to burn his homes, to butcher his women, to wipe the very stain of his existence from the face of the galaxy. . . but I'll be corteous about winning or losing. I enjoy winning more, much more, especially if the game has been hard fought. But if I beat an opponent with skill, thoroughly, I'll savour it just as much as a well fought close game which was highly enjoyable. I'm competitive by nature. I love to win, but atleast 40k has taught me to lose well as well as win well.

Son of the Lion
09-07-2006, 02:06
Well, let's just say I'm not surprised that you can't work it out. Does that help?
It does actually, now you're just being pompous.

Sir_Lunchalot
09-07-2006, 18:58
If you've had fun mission accomplished. That said winning does add that little bit of icing to the cake. mmm cake...:chrome:

bob syko
09-07-2006, 19:34
Winning does'nt bother me to much, it might if I knew what it felt like, but alas I can't remember.

Witch Hunter
09-07-2006, 22:11
If it was truly a FUN game, I could care less if I've won or lost.

cailus
10-07-2006, 04:23
I play footslogging Orks. Winning to me is like sex, a made up concept full of wierd and wonderful implications that I will never experience! :D

lapis_lazuli
10-07-2006, 13:57
In eight years of playing 40K, I've never won a game. Sure, I imagine it would give me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside to win, but I still enjoy playing regardless.

Tarquinn
10-07-2006, 14:37
I usually have a bit more fun when winning. So yes, kinda.

Malchek
10-07-2006, 15:38
As with any game, I prefer a close run thing which is fun, exciting and brings out the best in my game.

You can trounce someone and its boring - you can get trounced and that's even worse but if you're playing someone evenly matched, you're both playing well, you're both having fun and its a real nailbiter of a finish -that's the best games of all and I couldn't care less about winning (after the event:)

I don't believe anyone plays to lose so that's a no brainer.

I don't even mind losing to bad luck - it happens - and it could just as easily happen to your opponent - shocking things like that happen in WH40k all the time - its one of the things that makes the game so enjoyable - you never know what might happen - it leads to those moments you remember for ages ;)

What I can't stand is when I make a stupid mistakes - I should know better and my opponent (rightly) punishes me for it - that aint a good way to lose but you sure learn fast ;)

I play to win but I can have just as much fun losing ;)

ewar
10-07-2006, 16:54
I'm torn on this one, as I'm an inherently competitive person - I have to make a very concious effort to reign it in. It can be difficult sometimes, especially if the person I'm playing against is competetive.

Out of my group of gaming friends, none of them have ever beaten me (surprising, as one should have won through sheer luck by now!); it was funny at first but now when we play everyone makes such a big thing out of it that the more competetive players really get involved. Sometimes it gets a bit much, but generally I love playing these knife edge games where literally every move could be a game breaker.

As long as you tailor your playing style to your opponent to make sure both parties have a fun game, then I love a bit of competition. Having a good game is the most important, but if I lose then I'll have a serious think about where I went wrong so it doesn't happen again ;)

thanoson
10-07-2006, 17:13
So, I played on sunday tyranids vs a USF. This had new choices for me, such ast lictors and gargoyles. Cleanse mish. he has 4 CTM starcannon vypers, and two CTM bright lance vypers. The huge 15 man seer council is ripping crap up and it's an escalation game. all my biggies are out, as well as the flying warriors and gargoyles. My 1st reserve roll I get 1 carnifex in, and 2 lictors. 1 of which scatters away to be no help at all. Leaping warriors get in hth, only to get their clocks cleaned by gaurdians. My carnies missed almost all shots and my hth was abysmal the entire game. But, last turn came and I blew up the only vypers contesting a quarter, giving me the edge. I lost by 120 points in a 2000 point game. Draw to me, baby!!!