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Herkamer63
11-10-2015, 03:33
I just want to say for starters, I like what I'm seeing so far. The models are awesome, the rules are looking solid, and I've already came up with a rough draft of what is go in my new list. With all that said, let's go over a few things.

First off: the Stormsurge. Now, I know there's some hate towards this guy. The only beef I have with it is the pt value. I understand the amount of weapons it has, but @ T6, 3+ armor, and the usual Tau stats, this thing should have been around wraithknight pts (honestly, the wraithknight should be, pts wise, where the storm is at). Other than that, it's a pretty strong unit. With 4 weapon systems, 8 wounds, and 2 nasty main guns to pick, this guy will definitely be a force to be reckoned with, especially with when this is, so far, the only lord of war that can be taken in squads. This guy already has a spot in my list and I can't wait to use him.

Next up is the ghostkeel. This guy's interesting because it's bringing plenty of stealth and some nasty weaponry to bear. I'm not planning on getting one yet, but when I do, I'm going all fusion on it. I'm not sure if I'm doing the ion weapon or not. I would have to do up another list and see what I come up with to justify taking it. The thing that hurts it the most is its T5, IMO, but not as much S10 out there (unless you're playing Eldar then it's S D and lots of it). Again, I'm not getting it now, but will get it after the codex hits.

I think, so far, my favorite piece of news has been about the breacher teams. Not supporting fire is bad, but considering if you need to get your objective secured units more towards the frontline, you eitherlose supporting fire outside of 6'' or it's not as powerful with the lack of punch behind it. Enter the breachers. First off, their guns are, for all intents and purposes, shotguns, the Tau version anyway. Between 5-15" there not too bad, but under that 5" mark, that's where the real fun is at. With S6, AP3, and assault 2 at your disposal from that range, you make power armor guys think twice before jumping in after them. To add to it, you add the guardian drone you have a 5++ so long you the power field amplifier. I've got plans for these guys for sure. I'm just not looking forward to paying $50 a box to get them. Oh well. We all have to make sacrifices to the Greater Good I suppose.

Other than the new Crisis and Commander suits (which all look awesome), I don't have much else to say. Again, I think everything I listed on here will be solid. I'll have my overall thoughts when the codex hits. Let's here what you guys have to say. For the Greater Good!

lantzkev
11-10-2015, 06:05
Lol no mention about the tau fortifications or that ghostkeel makes one unit snap shot?

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Dkoz
11-10-2015, 09:11
I'd have to say from what I've seen so far the new Tau stuff looks great and unlike Herkamer I think they seem to be about the proper points cost. The Stormsurge is a monstrous created LOW so it can also fire its weapons at different targets not once but twice if you use its anchors that is really going to mess up MSU armies in a big way.

dangerboyjim
11-10-2015, 11:46
Tau were my first army, and I'm loving all these models.

But at theses prices though, I will be buying just the codex for now. Utterly insane.

Herkamer63
11-10-2015, 13:58
Lol no mention about the tau fortifications or that ghostkeel makes one unit snap shot?

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Sorry and thanks for that. I knew was missing something. I'm liking the fortification. I don't know why but the rail gun turret reminds me of dawn of war. Still cool though. The ghostkeel ability would work well with the neuroweb system jammer. So not only the unit snap fires, but the weapon gets hot. I'd like to hear someone take a squad of ghostkeels and have the commander nearby with jammer and using them against deathstar squads. Anyway, thanks for the reminder.

lantzkev
11-10-2015, 15:32
Just consider how many d weapons and other expensive unit weapons are blast or template

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Warpainting Tutorials
11-10-2015, 16:21
I don't do allot of playing nowdays, but I enjoy watching the game. I DO painting though.. Lot's of it, and this year going past my 20th year doing it. I for one am pumped up doing an awsome converion tutorials of the new KV128 Stormsurge for my YouTube channel! --->WARPAINTING TUTORIALS (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPbPd6b9Py_NveoD9NEG-KA)

lantzkev
11-10-2015, 16:42
I agree on the ghostkeel but I still think the stormsurge is over priced.

AngryAngel
11-10-2015, 18:06
Tau were my first army, and I'm loving all these models.

But at theses prices though, I will be buying just the codex for now. Utterly insane.

Agreed, the models look lovely, rules seem good from what I've seen. The prices make it just a codex buy and perhaps get a couple of boxes long down the road if any, my Tau force is really large as is.

BillyBones
11-10-2015, 18:42
As I play and collect only Tau I think I will get all the models to field all the formations and possibly all at once at full strength, depending how many new models it will take. I'm pretty sure I'll get one ghostkeel and a box of breacher along with the codex and maybe one new hammerhead for the formation. Later one stormsurge, two more ghostkeels and couple of the new crisis. And much later possibly another stormsurge, one more ghostkeel and the tau defense line and the Supremacy suit.

MajorWesJanson
11-10-2015, 19:48
I agree on the ghostkeel but I still think the stormsurge is over priced.

The Storm Surge is priced about right. Less durability than a Knight, but better/more diverse firepower. Think of it as a cheaper Baneblade as far as role, not an Imperial Knight. It's just the Wraithknight throwing any comparisons out of wack. And the Riptide base is about right, it's just the Ion accelerator and the Interceptor upgrades should have been more than 5 points per.

lantzkev
11-10-2015, 19:56
You are crazy.

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TheGreatestGood
11-10-2015, 21:02
Great models, outrageous prices across the board, breaking new boundaries. Who ever would have thought the riptide could look cheap! That aside though as a tau man I love them, just won't buy any.

Killgore
11-10-2015, 22:16
Shouldn't price whine posts be kept for the GW general section?

The models look fantastic, I would like to buy one of each but I'll probably hold off till I can read the full codex. I live in hope that vespids will become the best unit choice :P

MajorWesJanson
12-10-2015, 01:17
You are crazy.

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I was talking about points cost. Others weren't I guess. Dollar cost, it is higher than I would prefer, but that is true of most kits. I built it at the FLS where I bought it, next to a riptide I was planning on painting. Compared to the riptide it feels huge, and compared to a knight it is about equal. Of course I took it home where I am working on a Stompa and a Warlord titan, which make it feel dinky.

Okuto
12-10-2015, 01:26
Only thing that interest me are the new breachers, I'll prob pick that up from my local comic shop. New suits are tempting but I don't really "need" them and already donated an arm for the forgeworld Tau commander so don't need another commander model

I don't like the new bigger suits, they feel un-tau like and overcompensation to match up with the imperium.:shifty:

Marshal
12-10-2015, 02:14
Does anyone have a size comparison between the Stormsurge and the Riptide? I'd love to see a pic of the 2 side by side.

BillyBones
12-10-2015, 05:28
Does anyone have a size comparison between the Stormsurge and the Riptide? I'd love to see a pic of the 2 side by side.

Skim through this page http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?413252-Tau-in-september/page31

Wolf Lord Balrog
12-10-2015, 05:28
Nice models (except the Stormsurge), decent rules on the stuff we've seen so far (except the Stormsurge again), but utterly ridiculous $$ prices (including the Stormsurge).

I pre-ordered a Ghostkeel through thewarstore.net only because they were running a sale on top of their usual discount, so I got it for 24% off. Everything else, I just don't know that I can justify paying those prices, or even 80% of them.

Kakapo42
12-10-2015, 06:13
I am thoroughly unimpressed with the new Tau releases. I'll quote myself from the news thread, since the post there pretty much covers most of my issues with the latest releases.


Oh no...

I can't say I'm happy with any of these new releases (and the Tau are one of my favourite factions). A lot of it for me is so near, yet so very, very far.

The new infantry kit is a big disappointment for me - the extra doodads are nice, and it's good to see the classic Firewarrior Helmet is still an option, but cutting down the number of troops from 12 to 10 is unacceptable to me. I always loved 12-strong Firewarrior units, because with nearly every other faction having 10-strong squads they felt really unique (and I'm all about making factions unique). Now I am gravely concerned that 12-strong Firewarrior teams may no longer be an option. If they are that's great, if they aren't it's a very bad sign for me.

On a related note this release makes me miss blister packs more than ever. If they still did those then they could have released the support turret and fancy drone in a nice convenient blister and then had enough room to keep the number of troops in the box at 12. Oh how I wish for blister packs again...

The terrain is again good in principle, it's great to see some more non-Imperial terrain, but with it's massive circular parts and fancy energy barrier and giant gun-tower it all seems a bit too excessive for me. A simple pre-fabricated Tau-style defence wall a la the Aegis with a smaller, more portable turret with some sort of lighter gun (maybe an option between a burst cannon and a plasma rifle?) would have done the trick just as well with a far lower cost...

... Oh who am I kidding, it was always going to be expensive. :p

Also, the fact that the round sections look like those hover-dais couch things in the Senate building (http://images.wikia.com/starwars/nl/images/0/04/Senate_Aliens.jpg) does not help at all, as I'm one of those puritan Star Wars enthusiasts who dislikes the prequels (looking forward to seeing what the sequel's like though).

The worst one of all though is that Ethereal. The proportions don't seem right to me, the feet seem to big and the legs and waist seem too small (I'm sure there's a leg day joke in there somewhere...). The toned out arms don't sit right with me either, but I guess I could live with them. I'm not a fan of the body armour too - I get why he's wearing it, but I still don't like how it looks, I much prefer the more humble 'Jedi master' look the original Ethereal models had.

Also, am I the only one who doesn't like GW's new obsession with connecting everything airborne to the ground through some sort of scenery? It just looks tacky to me. Flying stands look just fine.

I'll wait and see what the codex is like, but more and more I get the feeling this will mark the point where I stop keeping up-to-date with 40k rules and start past-hammering there too. This is looking like the 8th edition Wood Elf re-release all over again...

In addition to those points, the Stormsurge looks ridiculous to me, and I can't see myself ever fielding one, but I can see uses for a lot of bits on it so I'll probably get one at some point in the future to harvest for conversion parts. The Ghostkeel is decidedly 'meh' to me, and I'm not fond of the new commander coming out, it looks too big and needlessly flashy for my tastes. The new Crisis Suits aren't really my thing, but they're also the release I'm least unhappy about, since it should be fairly straightforward to convert them back into the old style if I ever need to. Finally, I still think the Breacher helmets look ugly.

And just as I was looking forward to renovating my Tau army too. It seems as though I'm forever cursed to have the Warhammer-related things I love spoiled by GW before I can get around to really enjoying them.

Wesser
12-10-2015, 07:00
Sigh

More LoW? (or more big robots rather).

Isn't there already games for huge robots shooting each other? Does Warhammer rly need to get involved with that?

Oh well, looking at it's price tag the kit is surely too big to be squeezed through my door or fit on a standard table.... Would people who like the Stormsurge mind using it as a Garden Elf instead of ruining the game of this out-of-scale crap?

burni
12-10-2015, 13:16
For me, personally, this release just pushes Tau further away from why I like them, which is as an analog to a modern military force. I love the airborne, armoured cav feel of them. HH and Skyrays with maker light support and plenty of air power. The drones and stealth suits worked with this to my mind and I quite liked the compact VX8 suits to go along with it.

These anime inspired robots with ridiculous protrusions and odd stances just do nothing for me. The Riptide's standard pose is daft and the Stormsurge's legs are the silliest yet.

I know I'm in the minority though and glad everyone else is happy with the release. I'll just stick to my Orks (which ooze character - consistently GW's best work in my humble opinion).

Shiodome
12-10-2015, 15:11
all the stuff you like still exists, can't you just stick to that? that's what EVERYONE does, take the stuff that appeals to them (either rules, models or both) and ignores the rest in that codex.

lantzkev
12-10-2015, 15:38
For me, personally, this release just pushes Tau further away from why I like them, which is as an analog to a modern military force. I love the airborne, armoured cav feel of them. HH and Skyrays with maker light support and plenty of air power. The drones and stealth suits worked with this to my mind and I quite liked the compact VX8 suits to go along with it.

These anime inspired robots with ridiculous protrusions and odd stances just do nothing for me. The Riptide's standard pose is daft and the Stormsurge's legs are the silliest yet.

I know I'm in the minority though and glad everyone else is happy with the release. I'll just stick to my Orks (which ooze character - consistently GW's best work in my humble opinion).

look up armored interdiction or whatever it's called, you're going to have even more options for what you liked. Also look at ghostkeels ability to interfere with targeting for a turn.... ECM anyone?

lantzkev
12-10-2015, 15:40
I was talking about points cost. Others weren't I guess. Dollar cost, it is higher than I would prefer, but that is true of most kits. I built it at the FLS where I bought it, next to a riptide I was planning on painting. Compared to the riptide it feels huge, and compared to a knight it is about equal. Of course I took it home where I am working on a Stompa and a Warlord titan, which make it feel dinky.
I was talking point cost

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duffybear1988
14-10-2015, 12:53
Too many big robots/suits to get my juices flowing. Also the prices are crazy. I'll borrow the book from somebody and see what's what, but can't see myself investing much into them as I have what I need. I just hope they don't nerf the stuff I already have - it was already bad enough people moaning about Tau being OP when I didn't even take riptides.

mashkeyboardgetusername
14-10-2015, 13:07
The ghostkeel and the new crisis suits look nice, but I'm holding off until I see the codex. Partially this is because my current army has a fireblade as its HQ choice, so if (as rumoured) those are moving out of HQ to just be a squad upgrade then I'd need a new HQ choice. Given I'm not fond of the ethereal models that could mean needing an expensive new kit just to have a legal force. So, yeah, waiting to see what the wallet damage may be before deciding whether to go on with the army or shelve it.

(And yes, I realise this could all be solved with a cheap ethereal, but the model does nothing for me.)

Captain Marius
15-10-2015, 19:08
Im still saving up for a riptide, might get a ghostkeel in a few years...

Killgore
16-10-2015, 07:19
I must buy the plastic HQ battlesuit and equip him as a Coldstar. Flying monstrous creature :D (without smash, fear etc)

My poor old commander will get relegated to drone duty whilst the new soon will be busy swooping around

rolly_321
18-10-2015, 05:37
The breachers look nice, have awesome fluff that their rules fit really well but in term of actually using them on the table top... they look to me like utter turds.

15' max range is awful for a unit that never wants to see combat, not only that but at 15' their guns are also damn awful. Yes, at 5' they're basically rapid fire plasma rifles but that's shorter range than your standard 40k pistol!

In a vacuum pair against pretty much any other unit they will do jack all. Any basic shooty unit will simply outrange them or at least stay in the 10-15' area, and against a combat unit you have at best 1 turn and overwatch.

A basic tac squad destroys them at range or in CC and really has very little to fear from those guns.. Ork shootas can easily stay outside their effective threat range and will out shoots them.. Hell, they won't even stand up against eldar storm guardians who are terrible.

These guys are bad.. like pryovore bad

MajorWesJanson
18-10-2015, 06:08
The breachers look nice, have awesome fluff that their rules fit really well but in term of actually using them on the table top... they look to me like utter turds.

15' max range is awful for a unit that never wants to see combat, not only that but at 15' their guns are also damn awful. Yes, at 5' they're basically rapid fire plasma rifles but that's shorter range than your standard 40k pistol!

In a vacuum pair against pretty much any other unit they will do jack all. Any basic shooty unit will simply outrange them or at least stay in the 10-15' area, and against a combat unit you have at best 1 turn and overwatch.

A basic tac squad destroys them at range or in CC and really has very little to fear from those guns.. Ork shootas can easily stay outside their effective threat range and will out shoots them.. Hell, they won't even stand up against eldar storm guardians who are terrible.

These guys are bad.. like pryovore bad

No, they are not bad, they just are specialized. You don't run them on foot, you put them in a Devilfish to fly around and jump out to gun down a squad of expensive models at close range. 6" Devilfish move + 6" disembark + 5" range gives them a 17" threat rane and an armored shell to protect them until then.

They aren't stupidly OP point and click units like Eldar get, but they are far from worthless.

Killgore
18-10-2015, 07:37
The breachers look nice, have awesome fluff that their rules fit really well but in term of actually using them on the table top... they look to me like utter turds.

15' max range is awful for a unit that never wants to see combat, not only that but at 15' their guns are also damn awful. Yes, at 5' they're basically rapid fire plasma rifles but that's shorter range than your standard 40k pistol!

In a vacuum pair against pretty much any other unit they will do jack all. Any basic shooty unit will simply outrange them or at least stay in the 10-15' area, and against a combat unit you have at best 1 turn and overwatch.

A basic tac squad destroys them at range or in CC and really has very little to fear from those guns.. Ork shootas can easily stay outside their effective threat range and will out shoots them.. Hell, they won't even stand up against eldar storm guardians who are terrible.

These guys are bad.. like pryovore bad


They are a counter attack unit.

As the Major has noted you sit them in a Devilfish and pop then out when something needs clearing.

How many times has a pulse rifle unit failed to kill a enemy squad, leaving a few cc models that sweep up through your army? Having a unit of Breachers on standby (hopefully with marketlight support) can mop up any survivors and then go on to clear an objective.

AngryAngel
18-10-2015, 07:44
Too many big robots/suits to get my juices flowing. Also the prices are crazy. I'll borrow the book from somebody and see what's what, but can't see myself investing much into them as I have what I need. I just hope they don't nerf the stuff I already have - it was already bad enough people moaning about Tau being OP when I didn't even take riptides.

Same here, the prices are blowing me away a little bit. Hoever I like some of the new stuff, I guess we'll see what they do with current stuff once the book drops.

Wolf Lord Balrog
18-10-2015, 07:57
They are a counter attack unit.

As the Major has noted you sit them in a Devilfish and pop then out when something needs clearing.

How many times has a pulse rifle unit failed to kill a enemy squad, leaving a few cc models that sweep up through your army? Having a unit of Breachers on standby (hopefully with marketlight support) can mop up any survivors and then go on to clear an objective.
By my thinking you can use them even more aggressively than that. Against a MEq unit without cover (either in the open or cover removed via markerlights), 20 shots of S6 AP3 gives you 8.33 dead MEqs. What are the MEqs gonna do afterward, charge? Into 20 *more* S6 AP3 shots? Pretty killer with good timing.

sunborn
18-10-2015, 09:46
but cutting down the number of troops from 12 to 10 is unacceptable to me. I always loved 12-strong Firewarrior units, because with nearly every other faction having 10-strong squads they felt really unique (and I'm all about making factions unique). Now I am gravely concerned that 12-strong Firewarrior teams may no longer be an option.

Well if they do cut down your squad size by two the Tau are known for their use of a base eight number system. In their number system, you would still be fielding 12 units :D :D :D.

Kijamon
18-10-2015, 13:01
To me it looks like GW have recognised that Tau are one of the most boring armies to face, with armies invariably designed to shoot you off the board before you can do anything to them.

Looking at the stats, guns, new options and names of units - I think they are trying to force Tau players to move closer to get bonuses to their guns.

BillyBones
18-10-2015, 13:53
To me it looks like GW have recognised that Tau are one of the most boring armies to face, with armies invariably designed to shoot you off the board before you can do anything to them.

Looking at the stats, guns, new options and names of units - I think they are trying to force Tau players to move closer to get bonuses to their guns.

The way I see it from fluff point of view, Tau are just constantly evolving their technology and this is just a new step in their development, there is just always the problem with output vs. size of the weapon, but the profile S6 AP3 is something I missed a lot in my army. Though I hate being it 5/10/15 instead of 6/12/18 it's kinda weird.

lantzkev
18-10-2015, 14:04
To me it looks like GW have recognised that Tau are one of the most boring armies to face, with armies invariably designed to shoot you off the board before you can do anything to them.

Looking at the stats, guns, new options and names of units - I think they are trying to force Tau players to move closer to get bonuses to their guns.
I disagree on boring, they are fairly one dimensional though... I find spacewolves more boring myself

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Mack
18-10-2015, 14:32
It's actually a scary thought of Tau having weapons with the stats they have at close range.

They can hit you hard from afar, and if you get close, they can hit you harder.

If this new codex shapes up how we think it is shaping up, Tau could rise to the top as the best codex.

Marshal
18-10-2015, 18:35
Just put together a stormsurge today and man does that model look nice up close in person. It's another case of "pictures not doing justice". I'm super excited to get a few ghostkeels and the codex in a few weeks :) 221438

MajorWesJanson
18-10-2015, 21:29
It's actually a scary thought of Tau having weapons with the stats they have at close range.

They can hit you hard from afar, and if you get close, they can hit you harder.

If this new codex shapes up how we think it is shaping up, Tau could rise to the top as the best codex.

No they can't since the Eldar codex is still around.

Shadeseraph
19-10-2015, 00:39
Since the AoS release, I've become a modelist rather than a gamer, as they wished, so I'm not really interested on the rules anymore (I can't really make any sense of what is GW trying to do with their WH40K rules, either, the last three codices and mini codices have left me completely clueless).

As such, I've got to say I don't really like the Stormsurge model, nor its pricing, but the Ghostkeel is absolutely incredible. Probably one of the best releases ever. The breachers also look quite cool, specially the weapon, I like the shorter, bulkier look. The new XV8 suits look really nice and the Coldstar looks solid from the small images that have been leaked.

Had the Stormsurge been a vehicle rather than a suit, it would have been perfect for me (price nonwithstanding). I actually think it would have been more sensible this way, too: vehicles have lower profiles, better balance for heavier guns and recoil, and can carry more weight for extra weaponry and batteries/fuel.

I also quite like the Tidewall. It looks very tau-ish and neat.

As things are right now, I'm thinking about starting a 60-70 mm Kill Team campaign with my friends. I mean, I've got enough large crisis and stealth suits to make a 100-200 pts Kill team, and I'm sure I can use a couple Trygons as large Tyranid warriors.

Khaines Wrath
20-10-2015, 00:51
Im a little baffled by how much many people are disappointed in the amount of new suits. It's like saying you love Tyranids but you hate big chitinous monsters. Gundam style suits and Tau go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

Insane prices aside I love every release so far, I really like the Stormsurge, love the Ghostkeel and really, really like the Breacher Teams.

Kakapo42
20-10-2015, 01:50
Im a little baffled by how much many people are disappointed in the amount of new suits. It's like saying you love Tyranids but you hate big chitinous monsters. Gundam style suits and Tau go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

To be fair, from what I've seen there are a significant number of Tyranid enthusiasts who enjoy them for the endless all-consuming swarm of smaller monsters rather than the big chitinous gribblies, and likewise a lot of people like the Tau for other reasons besides battlesuits. I would know, because I'm one of them - from an aesthetics and modeling perspective, the battlesuits were never what drew me to the Tau, for me the main appeal was always the grav-tanks and infantry, with the battlesuits being a nice little novelty attraction on the side. For others it was the strong 'modern warfare' feel of the Tau units and playstyle, and large battlesuits (which from a point of realism are impractical) detract from that. It isn't like, say, Space Marines where there's really only one major element to latch onto (there are a lot of different permutations of Space Marines in power armour you can do, but at the end of the day they're still just Space Marines in power armour, with the occasional scout unit in support).

I suppose it's a bit like harsh vocals in metal music - they're a widespread element in it, and arguably a very important part, but they aren't and shouldn't be everything about it.

Of course in my case it doesn't help that I really enjoyed all the previous models that are being replaced, which gives the new ones an extremely tough act to follow in my eyes, and even then while I personally think the Stormsurge fails as a model in its own right, as a source for conversion parts it is excellent.

Wolf Lord Balrog
20-10-2015, 04:16
The only new stuff I'm excited about are the Ghostkeel and the new Crisis suits. The Ghostkeel because its the kind of 'larger suit' the Tau should have had in the first place, rather than the Riptide. And the Crisis suits (and Commander) because we've been waiting over a decade for the models to be updated.

The Stormsurge needs arms and a roof before I'll be interested, and the Breachers have nice rules, but the models aren't particularly interesting.

Khaines Wrath
20-10-2015, 07:04
To be fair, from what I've seen there are a significant number of Tyranid enthusiasts who enjoy them for the endless all-consuming swarm of smaller monsters rather than the big chitinous gribblies, and likewise a lot of people like the Tau for other reasons besides battlesuits. I would know, because I'm one of them - from an aesthetics and modeling perspective, the battlesuits were never what drew me to the Tau, for me the main appeal was always the grav-tanks and infantry, with the battlesuits being a nice little novelty attraction on the side. For others it was the strong 'modern warfare' feel of the Tau units and playstyle, and large battlesuits (which from a point of realism are impractical) detract from that. It isn't like, say, Space Marines where there's really only one major element to latch onto (there are a lot of different permutations of Space Marines in power armour you can do, but at the end of the day they're still just Space Marines in power armour, with the occasional scout unit in support).

I suppose it's a bit like harsh vocals in metal music - they're a widespread element in it, and arguably a very important part, but they aren't and shouldn't be everything about it.

Of course in my case it doesn't help that I really enjoyed all the previous models that are being replaced, which gives the new ones an extremely tough act to follow in my eyes, and even then while I personally think the Stormsurge fails as a model in its own right, as a source for conversion parts it is excellent.

I can empathize with that. Necrons were my favourite race along side the Tau until the 4th edition codex came out and wiped out the C'tan. Different people are attracted to different elements of each army. Of course I'm facing the reverse situation here. The Tau battlesuits are the main draw for me to the Tau army. Although ironically I used to only have 3 crisis suits and a broadside.

Okuto
20-10-2015, 23:35
Im a little baffled by how much many people are disappointed in the amount of new suits. It's like saying you love Tyranids but you hate big chitinous monsters. Gundam style suits and Tau go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

Insane prices aside I love every release so far, I really like the Stormsurge, love the Ghostkeel and really, really like the Breacher Teams.

Moderation is the key term me thinks......I like the battlesuits as much as the next tau player but I really.....really dislike the up scaling in size of the suits. IMO they feel un-tau like, they're excessively large and feel too imperial. The whole reason for me liking the tau was that they built small, sleek, and high tech not big, overcompensating and excessive.

They just feel big for big's sake, if you're imperial, sure that makes sense but not so much if you play Tau IMO

If you like the new suits great for you, don't let me tell you otherwise. But yes there's people out there who don't like the new suits much like there's Nid players who don't like the big beasties,

I too love the new breachers, don't care for that pricetag though

Khaines Wrath
21-10-2015, 00:37
I change my mind on liking all new releases, that new Ethereal is so ugly. That seriously has to be one of the worst models in ages, the sculpt is bland and the face and arms just look disproportionate.

Okuto
21-10-2015, 01:53
I change my mind on liking all new releases, that new Ethereal is so ugly. That seriously has to be one of the worst models in ages, the sculpt is bland and the face and arms just look disproportionate.

Indeed and that dreadful missile drone that comes with the new firewarriors, those were so last edition;)

Kakapo42
21-10-2015, 02:00
Indeed and that dreadful missile drone that comes with the new firewarriors, those were so last edition;)

Actually I quite like the missile turret, I just wish it didn't come at the expense of an extra two Firewarriors to make a team of 12. If they had put the missile turret and some bits to make variant drones (marker, guardian etc.) into a blister pack and made the new Firewarrior kit make 12 Firewarriors and 2 gun drones (while keeping all the other extra bits), then I would be very pleased with it.

But then I'm also quite partial to the Forgeworld drone sentry turrets.

Okuto
21-10-2015, 02:11
Actually I quite like the missile turret, I just wish it didn't come at the expense of an extra two Firewarriors to make a team of 12. If they had put the missile turret and some bits to make variant drones (marker, guardian etc.) into a blister pack and made the new Firewarrior kit make 12 Firewarriors and 2 gun drones (while keeping all the other extra bits), then I would be very pleased with it.

But then I'm also quite partial to the Forgeworld drone sentry turrets.

Ah man, we were having witty sarcastic pokes;)

I actually love the turret, more AI constructs are welcome in my book

Flogger23
23-10-2015, 22:12
Im a little baffled by how much many people are disappointed in the amount of new suits. It's like saying you love Tyranids but you hate big chitinous monsters. Gundam style suits and Tau go together like peanut butter and chocolate.


Tau became mecha only during 6th edition codex. Before that, Tau were mostly mechanized infantry force with battlesuits only adding flavour to it. In the 6th edition they intentionally nerfed vehicles to uselesness so everybody would be forced to go mecha.
So yeah, I do hate this new release too. I don't care about the suits.

And yes, they did exact same thing to Tyranids. They used to be a horde army, but became "gimmick monster of the week" -army.

edit. Kakapo42 summed it up more eloquently and less bluntly than I did...

MajorWesJanson
24-10-2015, 03:06
Spare missile drones from broadside kits make for good standins for missile pod turrets.

lantzkev
24-10-2015, 03:44
Tau became mecha only during 6th edition codex. Before that, Tau were mostly mechanized infantry force with battlesuits only adding flavour to it. In the 6th edition they intentionally nerfed vehicles to uselesness so everybody would be forced to go mecha.
So yeah, I do hate this new release too. I don't care about the suits.

And yes, they did exact same thing to Tyranids. They used to be a horde army, but became "gimmick monster of the week" -army.

edit. Kakapo42 summed it up more eloquently and less bluntly than I did...
This release just did more for those that don't want the new suits than anything else.

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk

Wolf Lord Balrog
24-10-2015, 03:50
Between Hammerheads and Skyrays being available in squadrons of 1-3 now, and the new Armored Interdiction Cadre, you can now play a more armor-heavy Tau army than ever before, if that is your thing.

Flogger23
24-10-2015, 09:12
This release just did more for those that don't want the new suits than anything else.


Yeah, it screwed them over more.
What did it do? The biggest problem - lack of vehicle wargear - remains. Hammerhead is still a slow, unflexible platform with mismatched secondary armament. Devilfish is same as before, ie. it sucks. Only thing what changed is that they can be taken in squadrons, but why would you? They have to shoot at same target, hardly very economical. They can't move because of coherency rules and if they are attacked, entire unit is wiped out in one assault or meltacide drop. Furthermore, buying 3 tanks and having them sit in one bunch and firing their main guns at same target is very un-Tau like. I want Hammerhead to be a mobile, flexible platform, not an immobile Railgun turret.

Did they even fix the Hammerhead Burst cannon issue? I bet they didn't because that would have required someone to care and it's clear they don't.

Flogger23
24-10-2015, 09:13
This release just did more for those that don't want the new suits than anything else.


Yeah, it screwed them over more.
What did it do? The biggest problem - lack of vehicle wargear - remains. Hammerhead is still a slow, unflexible platform with mismatched secondary armament. Devilfish is same as before, ie. it sucks. Only thing what changed is that they can be taken in squadrons, but why would you? They have to shoot at same target, hardly very economical. They can't move because of coherency rules and if they are attacked, entire unit is wiped out in one assault or meltacide drop. Furthermore, buying 3 tanks and having them sit in one bunch and firing their main guns at same target is very un-Tau like. I want Hammerhead to be a mobile, flexible platform, not an immobile Railgun turret.

Did they even fix the Hammerhead Burst cannon issue? I bet they didn't because that would have required someone to care and it's clear they don't.

lantzkev
24-10-2015, 12:19
Yeah, it screwed them over more.
What did it do? The biggest problem - lack of vehicle wargear - remains. Hammerhead is still a slow, unflexible platform with mismatched secondary armament. Devilfish is same as before, ie. it sucks. Only thing what changed is that they can be taken in squadrons, but why would you? They have to shoot at same target, hardly very economical. They can't move because of coherency rules and if they are attacked, entire unit is wiped out in one assault or meltacide drop. Furthermore, buying 3 tanks and having them sit in one bunch and firing their main guns at same target is very un-Tau like. I want Hammerhead to be a mobile, flexible platform, not an immobile Railgun turret.

Did they even fix the Hammerhead Burst cannon issue? I bet they didn't because that would have required someone to care and it's clear they don't.
I am not sure how you derive this argument of yours... Vehicles have plenty of wargear for tau. The weapons are fine... And you can now field more.... Our tanks are actually really good at what they do and durable. The problem was always not enough heavy slots

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Felwether
24-10-2015, 12:31
Also, what's this "burst cannon issue"?

Flogger23
24-10-2015, 12:51
I am not sure how you derive this argument of yours... Vehicles have plenty of wargear for tau. The weapons are fine... And you can now field more.... Our tanks are actually really good at what they do and durable. The problem was always not enough heavy slots


In the 4th edition Codex, Hammerhead could fire like a Fast Vehicle, and split fire. This was very useful as it could move over terrain pieces and guaranteed that almost always, its guns could shoot to full effect.
Hammerhead has terrible mismatch in its armament: main gun is anti-armour or anti-MC, but secondary guns are anti-infantry. This means that if you are using solid shot to kill vehicles, rest of your guns do nothing. It's worse with Squadrons when ALL of your tanks have to shoot at the same target.

Re: Burst Cannon. Hammerhead's secondary guns are either SMS or Burst Cannon. They have exact same statline , but SMS has longer range and special rules - there is never any point of taking Burst Cannons. In the old Codex, Burst Cannons were separate weapons so you actually had to think whether you use longer range and greater flexibility of SMS, or greater raw firepower of Burst Cannons.

Killgore
24-10-2015, 15:18
Yeah, it screwed them over more.
What did it do? The biggest problem - lack of vehicle wargear - remains. Hammerhead is still a slow, unflexible platform with mismatched secondary armament. Devilfish is same as before, ie. it sucks. Only thing what changed is that they can be taken in squadrons, but why would you? They have to shoot at same target, hardly very economical. They can't move because of coherency rules and if they are attacked, entire unit is wiped out in one assault or meltacide drop. Furthermore, buying 3 tanks and having them sit in one bunch and firing their main guns at same target is very un-Tau like. I want Hammerhead to be a mobile, flexible platform, not an immobile Railgun turret.




Hammerhead squadrons will benefit from the Fire team rule, +1 BS is always good. Thats one benefit from running a squadron. Another would be Longstrike, he would give Tank hunter to the entire unit for a reasonable point cost.

Other option is the armoured interdiction cadre. The tanks won't be in a squadron but receive re-rolls to hit at a designated area. So you could space the vehicles out to avoid a wipeout.


I use three Hammerheads in most of my games, so this benefits my play style.

Flogger23
25-10-2015, 17:32
Seriously, I doubt we are going to see any more of Tau tanks being used. Sure enough, FoC limitations pretty much went away, but they went away from ALL Tau units, most of which are better than Hammerhead. For almost every imaginable situation, it is better to take 400 points worth of Riptides or Broadsides than Hammerheads.

Shiodome
25-10-2015, 19:48
no-one will take vehicle squadrons if they can avoid it. grav and the holy hull point spam will see to that, a squadron is just a virtually guaranteed way to lose multiple vehicles to one units shooting, while ensuring your own firepower is as inefficient as possible. I don't even really see any marine squadrons (whirlwinds etc) and they're far more viable.

insectum7
25-10-2015, 20:43
no-one will take vehicle squadrons if they can avoid it. grav and the holy hull point spam will see to that, a squadron is just a virtually guaranteed way to lose multiple vehicles to one units shooting, while ensuring your own firepower is as inefficient as possible. I don't even really see any marine squadrons (whirlwinds etc) and they're far more viable.

I take 'em. I'm actually looking to expand my double Whirlwind squadron to a squadron of three, backed up by a Land Speeder squadron with 2+ models.

lantzkev
25-10-2015, 20:55
Not sure about you but I get rid of priority threats first... If I am running vehicles I get rid of antivehicle first

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Gorsameth
25-10-2015, 21:06
Not sure about you but I get rid of priority threats first... If I am running vehicles I get rid of antivehicle first

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk
Most armies these days bring enough AT to not just get rid of it.
The large amount of Monsters/Gargantuans and Super Heavy's saw to that.

Flogger23
25-10-2015, 21:43
Not sure about you but I get rid of priority threats first... If I am running vehicles I get rid of antivehicle first


Most of the time my vehicles are killed by something which deep strikes next to it and blows it to smithereens...other than bubblewrap, there ain't much I can do against it and squadroning only makes damage worse.

lantzkev
25-10-2015, 21:44
Most of the time my vehicles are killed by something which deep strikes next to it and blows it to smithereens...other than bubblewrap, there ain't much I can do against it and squadroning only makes damage worse.
Run alot of interceptor

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AngryAngel
25-10-2015, 22:27
I take 'em. I'm actually looking to expand my double Whirlwind squadron to a squadron of three, backed up by a Land Speeder squadron with 2+ models.

I don't think he's arguing those instances you wouldn't squadron up. I mean how long have you been able to take multiple land speeders ? Whirlwinds can be kept out of the way and somewhat safe. I think he's meaning more the other tanks, like vindicators and predators not really being awesome in large numbers, which I agree, a squad of them ends up a bit meh, though the WW and Speeders I could see ( speeders I always do, WW I haven't, but would ).

insectum7
25-10-2015, 23:22
I don't think he's arguing those instances you wouldn't squadron up. I mean how long have you been able to take multiple land speeders ? Whirlwinds can be kept out of the way and somewhat safe. I think he's meaning more the other tanks, like vindicators and predators not really being awesome in large numbers, which I agree, a squad of them ends up a bit meh, though the WW and Speeders I could see ( speeders I always do, WW I haven't, but would ).

I replied to "no Whirlwinds", with "yes Whirlwinds."

I'd take the squadron of three Vindicators in a second if I wanted to commit to the models. The S 10 Ignores cover Apocalypse Blast is not "meh" in my eyes, and would clobber those annoying DA re-rollable jink bikes something fierce.

Edit: Unless I'm mistaken, you can cast Invisibility on multiple vehicles at a time with Squadrons.

Shiodome
26-10-2015, 04:24
Not sure about you but I get rid of priority threats first... If I am running vehicles I get rid of antivehicle first

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk

not sure about you but i don't make lists where my anti tank is a couple of units with flashing target priority beacons in their helmets. My whole army is anti-tank, i've found i need to make lists that can kill 2 knights in the first 2 turns these days (my last tournament was a rough education in 'gauss is not good enough any more' :P ).

Insectum, quick question... do you have spare heavy slots? if so, what is your rationale for 2 whirlwinds together. and if you don't have spare slots would you split them if you had the slot? you could take 3x vehicles with a 24" gun if you want, you'd never get to use its sexy blast in a competitive. more efficient buffs is a good argument in favour though.

Saunders
26-10-2015, 07:19
Edit: Unless I'm mistaken, you can cast Invisibility on multiple vehicles at a time with Squadrons.

Correct. Multiple vehicles benefiting from a single power is a perk.

insectum7
26-10-2015, 14:46
Insectum, quick question... do you have spare heavy slots? if so, what is your rationale for 2 whirlwinds together. and if you don't have spare slots would you split them if you had the slot? you could take 3x vehicles with a 24" gun if you want, you'd never get to use its sexy blast in a competitive. more efficient buffs is a good argument in favour though.

Well, I'm usually taking Whirlwinds as part of a Fire Support Detatchment (or whatever it's called) to help form my Gladius. The detatchment requires a squadron of 2. I'm looking to add the third WW because then the squadron gets Shred. With Tigurius in my army, I can make the entire squadron Rending. So that's three Large Blasts, using the Ignores Cover round, Shredding and Rending. Shredding helps the Rending, because you're re-rolling wounds. Because they are part of the Support Formation they may be re-rolling to hit as well. It's one of my easier-to-achieve plays to handle DA bikers with multiple cover saves using my current collection of painted models.

Dr.Clock
26-10-2015, 15:20
Whirlwinds in that build sound pretty darn decent... the vindie squadron is much harder to use effectively in my experience - the one time I faced it, it was pretty simple to neutralize by staying out of range, and shaking just one of the tanks per turn made it impossible to use the apoc blast combined fire... Whirlies are cheaper, and can barrage from the backfield/out of sight.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Dr.Clock
26-10-2015, 15:20
Double post... : P

Cheers,

E

insectum7
26-10-2015, 15:31
Whirlwinds in that build sound pretty darn decent... the vindie squadron is much harder to use effectively in my experience - the one time I faced it, it was pretty simple to neutralize by staying out of range, and shaking just one of the tanks per turn made it impossible to use the apoc blast combined fire... Whirlies are cheaper, and can barrage from the backfield/out of sight.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Agree that the Vidicator Squadron is a little tenuous, but I'd just stick it in reserve to spook the other guy and force him to keep his distance for a turn or two. This is to counter the Bike Squads I've been facing, mind you, who tend to cross the table really quickly. If I could scare them into not advancing, then I've got another round or two using Heavy Weapons with Perfect Timing to thin the numbers a bit before things get hairy.

shabbadoo
27-10-2015, 09:12
The Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors didn't really need a re-do, but GW sure did a superb job on the re-design! 7 unit kits, 3 *NON-IMPERIAL* terrain component kits, a codex, and objective cards is a FANTASTIC release. Tau players are now as spoiled with plastic kits as Space Marines players are. Here's hoping Chaos Space Marines will get a similar treatment not too long from now. And Eldar too (but just model kits). :p

Gorsameth
27-10-2015, 12:44
The Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors didn't really need a re-do, but GW sure did a superb job on the re-design! 7 unit kits, 3 *NON-IMPERIAL* terrain component kits, a codex, and objective cards is a FANTASTIC release. Tau players are now as spoiled with plastic kits as Space Marines players are. Here's hoping Chaos Space Marines will get a similar treatment not too long from now. And Eldar too (but just model kits). :p
Fire warriors were a horrible mold. Half the legs were always more or less miss-casts with almost all the detail on one side of the leg missing.

Shiodome
27-10-2015, 12:47
Tau players are now as spoiled with plastic kits as Space Marines players are.

No.

16 tau kits, and i stopped counting marine plastic kits when i got to 50 (only skimmed through BA, DA, GK, C:SM and got bored. no this is not duplicating kits like rhino, dreadnaught etc between lists)

adreal
27-10-2015, 23:16
No.

16 tau kits, and i stopped counting marine plastic kits when i got to 50 (only skimmed through BA, DA, GK, C:SM and got bored. no this is not duplicating kits like rhino, dreadnaught etc between lists)

Basic hq in plastic, check
Troops in plastic (with most of not all options), check
Elites in plastic (suits with most options, stealth suits, riptide) check
Fast attack in plastic, check
Heavy support in plastic with all options, check
Lord of war in plastic, check

Now there is still some metal/finecast in the range (longstrike, kroot ox, kroot hounds, vespid) but the majority of the range and options are in plastic

Do marines have a larger range in plastic, yes, but to be fair, they have a bigger range of options (3 different land raiders, 3 different basic transport options) could that be cut down into combo boxes, yes, but it won't be

shabbadoo
28-10-2015, 12:29
It is always nice to have somebody bring us back to reality by reminding us how horribly mistreated non-Space Marine armies are. Lie down and take the boot leather, kick-dog Tau! :p

I am more of this mind:

Me: "What's this?
GW: "It's your Tau release."
Me: "My Tau release? Whadd'ya think I am, a Tau player? I'll play Sisters of Battle before I buy this new Tau stuff! [hands over credit card] That's what I'll do! I'll play Sisters of Battle! [hands over credit card again] You'll be sorry, making a Tau player play Sisters of Battle! [hands over credit card again] You ought to be ashamed of yourself! [hands over credit card again] This is terrible! Disgraceful, that 's what it is!"[hands over credit card again] How do you expect me to stomach this stuff![hands over credit card again]

Reference at 2:20 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2IO-TIRHM :D

Inquisitor Kallus
28-10-2015, 13:15
The Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors didn't really need a re-do, but GW sure did a superb job on the re-design! 7 unit kits, 3 *NON-IMPERIAL* terrain component kits, a codex, and objective cards is a FANTASTIC release. Tau players are now as spoiled with plastic kits as Space Marines players are. Here's hoping Chaos Space Marines will get a similar treatment not too long from now. And Eldar too (but just model kits). :p

Tau dont have as many kits as Space Marine players. There isnt a real NEED for new toy soldiiers, its merely wants, and a number of people have wanted new suits for a while, the old ones looked dated according to many (myself included). Regarding the Fire warriors, the kit had some issues regarding quality which have surfaced over the years, so it was a good time to retire it and make a new one with added extras to make another unit (breachers).

The bearded one
28-10-2015, 14:49
I think this is a great release, as it touches on so many areas.

This isn't just one of those releases where they throw a bunch of new supersized monsters at us and not really adding anything to the traditional base of the army.
- There's obviously a big monster like there usually is (the largest model in the Tau army, short of forgeworld stuff)
- But there's also the Ghostkeel, a medium-sized monster (a size missing between the riptide-class and broadsides) with a close-ranged role, supporting stealth suits.
- There's also a new HQ, an alternative commander suit. (Doesn't seem that great, but more alternatives the merrier)
- And then there are new kits and an alternative unit for the traditional mainstay of the army: battlesuits and firewarriors. The traditional base units of an army (eg. Necron warriors, space marines, gaunts, ork boyz, etc.) only very rarely receive updates, and troop units aren't added all that often, and here they updated both and added a new troop unit (a section that was always a bit lacking). I particularly like how they updated the battlesuits and made them look better, but without changing them so drastically that the old suits would look out of place next to them (the way the old broadsides look next to the new ones).
- And then alongside all those releases (essentially one for every size-class, and releases for both old and new units) we also get sweet new non-imperial terrain!!

This release is magnificent. I don't even need to replace my codex either (it's only been what.. 2.5 years?), but the formations in the Kauyon book do help boost some of the units that were left in the dust, like stealth suits. And I think I heard about a Vespid-based formation?

I have no noteworthy complaints. Except price. Duh.

Wolf Lord Balrog
28-10-2015, 15:14
- And then there are new kits and an alternative unit for the traditional mainstay of the army: battlesuits and firewarriors. The traditional base units of an army (eg. Necron warriors, space marines, gaunts, ork boyz, etc.) only very rarely receive updates, and troop units aren't added all that often, and here they updated both and added a new troop unit (a section that was always a bit lacking).

I hate to be nitpicky here, but Space Marines is a bad example of "traditional base units of an army only very rarely receive updates". In the 15 years it took for Tau to finally get an update to Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits, the Space Marine Tactical Squad kit got re-cut at least 3 times.

While I do agree with your more general point that this was a good release for Tau, there is still so much more territory they could have covered: updated Vespid and Kroot, new tanks, Gue'vesa (assimilated IG), new allied races (Demiurg?), etc.

insectum7
28-10-2015, 16:31
I hate to be nitpicky here, but Space Marines is a bad example of "traditional base units of an army only very rarely receive updates". In the 15 years it took for Tau to finally get an update to Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits, the Space Marine Tactical Squad kit got re-cut at least 3 times.


Really? I was under the impression that the basic marine has only been re-cut once since their intro in 3rd. I think at some point they got a different accessory sprue.

Though, the fact that I can't remember any differences in between the 3rd and the 6th Ed release might show how little it mattered, if it happened.

Dkoz
28-10-2015, 17:10
The new buffmander formation that allows his buffs to apply to all the units as long as they fire as one at one target is great and will really help Tau out. It's the thing a lagging codex needed to help it out with the abundance of death stars out there right now.

Inquisitor Kallus
28-10-2015, 20:21
Really? I was under the impression that the basic marine has only been re-cut once since their intro in 3rd. I think at some point they got a different accessory sprue.

Though, the fact that I can't remember any differences in between the 3rd and the 6th Ed release might show how little it mattered, if it happened.

To my knowledge there was the 3rd ed sprue, then you had one later on (dont remember the date) which had a head with horizontal mask grille and then the current one. There might have been another inbetween but I cant remember.

Anyway, im glad to see the Tau releases, theyre good imo, apart from one thing...

ehlijen
29-10-2015, 01:30
The initial 3rd ed tactical kit had only the flamer as a special weapon upgrade. At some point between 4th and 5th, I think, the upgrade sprue was recut to include a plasma gun, melta gun and various power weapons for the sergeant. Then they got a complete overhaul with the book that gave them grav guns.

Though there have been additional box art changes over the years as well.

MajorWesJanson
29-10-2015, 10:53
Tac Marines had an old style sprue where the parts were all divided into individual marines, before being recut into a sprue with all the legs together, all the torsoes together, ect. Then there was a small accessory sprue with a flamer, missile, and sergeant parts, and later a larger accessory sprue that came with he same, plus a plasma and Mk VIII styled torso. The Tac Squad only got a real resculpt (rather than recut) in 6th.

Besides Vespid and some characters, a Kroot Merc codex would finish off non-plastic Tau.

As far as plastic covering their range:
Necrons need some characters.
SM need a few HQ builds, Techmarines+ options, and Legion of the Damned.
IG need Ratlings, Priests, and Psykers
Nids need Lictors, Biovores, and Pyrovores
Dark Eldar need Haemonculus, Grotesques, Beasts, and Court of the Archon
Daemons need Greater Daemons, Flesh Hounds, Beasts of Nurgle, and Slaaneshi Fiends, plus a couple builds of Heralds
Orks need some builds of HQ, Tank Bustas, Kommandos, Deff Koptas. Big Gunz, Redone Buggies/Trakks.
Eldar need a couple builds of HQ and most Aspect Warriors
CSM need Cult marines, Chosen, Havocs, most HQ options, Obliterators/Mutilators
Sisters

But that is off topic for Tau.

I'm having to decide now whether to get Kauyron or the Tau codex right now, and hold off on any Crisis suit kits, since I am now in saving mode for the HH box comin out in a couple more weeks.

Marshal
29-10-2015, 15:22
Dark Eldar need Haemonculus, Grotesques, Beasts, and Court of the Archon


Dark Eldar have plastic Haemonculi... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Haemonculus-2014

MajorWesJanson
30-10-2015, 05:18
Dark Eldar have plastic Haemonculi... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Haemonculus-2014

Huh. Forgot about him. I kind of blocked out the Haemi coven releases when they nerfed the Wych Cult element of DE further into the round.

bad dice
30-10-2015, 12:03
Huh. Forgot about him. I kind of blocked out the Haemi coven releases when they nerfed the Wych Cult element of DE further into the round.

There is also a ork set for mek guns. But it sells like crap cause it cost twice the ammount of points of the actual unit

Marshal
30-10-2015, 14:26
Huh. Forgot about him. I kind of blocked out the Haemi coven releases when they nerfed the Wych Cult element of DE further into the round.

I'm mostly a collector is why I picked this model up myself. He's been painted and played in 1 game with his unit of talos and chronos together to webway in and confuse the enemy.

MajorWesJanson
03-11-2015, 01:46
There is also a ork set for mek guns. But it sells like crap cause it cost twice the ammount of points of the actual unit

It has the new gun options, but none of the original guns- lobba, zzap gun, kannon.

shabbadoo
03-11-2015, 08:11
...making it an ****-tastic kit for the price. It should be no more than $75US for three.

Also, I finally saw the Tidewall terrain this weekend, and it is of better quality than any other terrain kit to to date- very crisp and clean molding.

march10k
04-11-2015, 17:33
I'm most excited about the Optimized Stealth Cadre (OSC). I've always liked stealth suits more than crisis suits, and now they're finally viable...and in an OSC, the ghostkeels are damned scary to enemy armor and enemy fliers...if you give them velocity trackers and cyclic ion rakers, that's 6 jink-ignoring S7 shots at rear armor at BS4. Take two and spread them out with a 4-drone conga line, and that's pretty effective anti-aircraft coverage...that drone conga line can also be the intervening unit required to give the two stealth teams 2++ cover...Throw in shadowsun, and you have a pretty mean beatstick...you have to kill 3/4 drones to cut into the cover save of the ghostkeels, and taking two of them also gives you a second charge of the "that unit that just targeted me has to snap-shoot," making it pretty much impossible to shoot the ghostkeels apart before they get close enough to shoot off the enemy board edge. Expensive, but I can only really think of two things it can't handle: land raiders and invisi-stars. Actually, with shadowsun, you could have 4 fusion blasters in one of the stealth teams, so the real problem with land raiders is the terminators inside, not the tank itself. Thankfully, that's not incredibly common, and not beyond the capabilities of a supporting longstrike squadron. As for the invisible deathstars, I suppose you could just keep 60 point kroot packs between the good stuff and the 'stars?


Hammerhead is still a slow, unflexible platform with mismatched secondary armament. [...] They can't move because of coherency rules and if they are attacked, entire unit is wiped out in one assault or meltacide drop. Furthermore, buying 3 tanks and having them sit in one bunch and firing their main guns at same target is very un-Tau like. I want Hammerhead to be a mobile, flexible platform, not an immobile Railgun turret.


Holy hyperbole, batman! Meltacide will NOT take out a squadron, you check for the extra D6 of penetration for each hit after resolving the previous hit...and these tanks are so flipping huge that it's highly improbable that one unit would ever be within 6" of more than one squadron member. A squadron of hammerheads is kinda meh...unless it has Longstrike...then the whole squadron gets tank hunters, preferred enemy IG, and night vision...and you'll be able to ensure that Longstrike himself is not the closest to the enemy, giving him a lot of protection against shaken/stunned, eliminating the need to jink...keeping his nearly-autohit, nearly auto-pen, "have that removed" gun in the fight. And sometimes, the squadron mate(s) will even get to shoot, too.


no-one will take vehicle squadrons if they can avoid it. grav and the holy hull point spam will see to that, a squadron is just a virtually guaranteed way to lose multiple vehicles to one units shooting, while ensuring your own firepower is as inefficient as possible. I don't even really see any marine squadrons (whirlwinds etc) and they're far more viable.

IG uses squadrons in spite of all of the problems that you cite, and they don't have 'jink,' it's not the end of the world. I could avoid squadroning, but I'm giving Longstike a wingman anyway. I probably wouldn't, though, if he couldn't share tank hunters and PE:IG...

lantzkev
04-11-2015, 23:52
How do you add shadowsun to a mc?

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Wolf Lord Balrog
05-11-2015, 02:58
How do you add shadowsun to a mc?

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As Gorsameth recently reminded me, you can't. Best options for protecting Shadowsun or a Buffmander is to stick them in a unit with other battlesuits. Stealth for the Buffmander, Crisis or Broadside for Shadowsun.

ehlijen
05-11-2015, 05:01
Why can't she as an independent character join a monstrous creature unit? I thought that restriction was for units that only ever consist of single models, which isn't the case for riptides or stormsurges.

Gorsameth
05-11-2015, 11:21
Why can't she as an independent character join a monstrous creature unit? I thought that restriction was for units that only ever consist of single models, which isn't the case for riptides or stormsurges.
that was 6e, 7th just outright forbids an IC from join any unit containing an MC or Vehicle.

march10k
05-11-2015, 22:28
In the context of an optimized stealth cadre, I think she's fantastic in a stealth team with two fusion blasters...four fusion blasters that resolve against rear armor? Yes, please! Who needs to get within 6"??? You can instead jump in to 11.9", resolve against rear armor, and then jump back...

They also double as insurance against land raiders, monoliths, and other stuff that laughs at S7 hits on rear armor.

The bearded one
07-11-2015, 05:28
In the context of an optimized stealth cadre, I think she's fantastic in a stealth team with two fusion blasters...four fusion blasters that resolve against rear armor? Yes, please! Who needs to get within 6"??? You can instead jump in to 11.9", resolve against rear armor, and then jump back...

They also double as insurance against land raiders, monoliths, and other stuff that laughs at S7 hits on rear armor.

Don't forget Tau meltas are 18" weapons.

MajorWesJanson
07-11-2015, 05:51
Resolve against Rear armor fusion also does some pretty mean things to Quantum Shielding, Serpent Shields, and in many cases, Ion Shields on Knights.

insectum7
07-11-2015, 05:55
Resolve against Rear armor fusion also does some pretty mean things to Quantum Shielding, Serpent Shields, and in many cases, Ion Shields on Knights.

This "resolves against rear armor" thing. . . what's the deal with that? Special rule or something? I've been away from the club a couple weeks.

Losing Command
07-11-2015, 06:09
This "resolves against rear armor" thing. . . what's the deal with that? Special rule or something? I've been away from the club a couple weeks.

The stealth cadre formation gives a special rule that does that. The explanation is that the suits stealth fields become so intense that shooting hits the rear and ignores cover or something. Somehow.

Wolf Lord Balrog
07-11-2015, 06:18
The stealth cadre formation gives a special rule that does that. The explanation is that the suits stealth fields become so intense that shooting hits the rear and ignores cover or something. Somehow.
My impression of it is that their camo fields become like full-on distortion fields, and you can't tell where they really are. So they always get the drop on you and can hit vulnerable spots.

insectum7
07-11-2015, 07:03
My impression of it is that their camo fields become like full-on distortion fields, and you can't tell where they really are. So they always get the drop on you and can hit vulnerable spots.

Ohhhh. . . Lictor bullets.

march10k
09-11-2015, 18:18
Ohhhh. . . Lictor bullets.

+1 :D quoted for truth!

Captain Marius
11-11-2015, 19:07
Its a mirror thingy, they project their stealth fields into a wall of mirrors and bounce their shots off of it... cool!

R.D.
12-11-2015, 04:25
The stealth cadre formation gives a special rule that does that. The explanation is that the suits stealth fields become so intense that shooting hits the rear and ignores cover or something. Somehow.

Honestly, my mind's eye kinda pictured it firing like the ZF-1 from the Fifth Element. ;)

Mandragola
12-11-2015, 12:55
You silly people are trying to visualise something invisible.

Remember: rules happen just because. On occasion they correlate with the fluff, but not frequently enough to suggest causation.

lantzkev
12-11-2015, 17:44
I'm not entirely sure that "resolves against rear armor" equates to comes from the rear armor.

ie a model infront of the knight, shoots at knight, knight declared before hand ion shield against front arcs, he's shooting from front arc so gives the knight 4+ invul, but his ap roll resolves against armor 10.

There is nothing in the rule that changes where the shots originate from, just what they hit armor wise. I'm a hardcore tau player and I just don't see this as more than "his rear armor"

now against some wargear that says hits vs front armor... it works like a charm, but against resolves against direction, not so much.

daveNYC
12-11-2015, 17:53
I'm not entirely sure that "resolves against rear armor" equates to comes from the rear armor.

ie a model infront of the knight, shoots at knight, knight declared before hand ion shield against front arcs, he's shooting from front arc so gives the knight 4+ invul, but his ap roll resolves against armor 10.

There is nothing in the rule that changes where the shots originate from, just what they hit armor wise. I'm a hardcore tau player and I just don't see this as more than "his rear armor"

now against some wargear that says hits vs front armor... it works like a charm, but against resolves against direction, not so much.

I think that this is probably what GW is trying to say in the rules. Otherwise you'd get something goofy like Knights putting their shields to the rear when facing stealth teams. Figure out the firing arc per normal, just roll against the rear armor value for pen.

mostlyharmless
12-11-2015, 22:14
It would certainly put opponents in a pickle if they're facing a Stealth Cadre and a Stormsurge. Where do you put your shield? In the rear to defend against melta or in the front to guard against destroyer missiles?

Wolf Lord Balrog
12-11-2015, 22:32
It would certainly put opponents in a pickle if they're facing a Stealth Cadre and a Stormsurge. Where do you put your shield? In the rear to defend against melta or in the front to guard against destroyer missiles?
His interpretation was that it wouldn't matter. The shot is still coming from the front in both cases, just the Stealth Cadre get to use the number from the Rear AV instead of the Front for determining Pens.

mostlyharmless
12-11-2015, 23:31
I was going with the other interpretation.

Gorsameth
13-11-2015, 00:18
Ion shields (and serpent shields) are worded so that it is not where the shot comes from that counts. its what armor facing is hit that counts.
A Knight with his shield to the front, getting shot at by a unit under the effect of Wall of Mirrors that is infront of him will not get his ion shield save.

Read the ion shield entry. It says ON that facing, not FROM that facing.

lantzkev
13-11-2015, 06:45
Well then in that case the shielding won't work unless he declared it the rear

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march10k
13-11-2015, 13:48
It would certainly put opponents in a pickle if they're facing a Stealth Cadre and a Stormsurge. Where do you put your shield? In the rear to defend against melta or in the front to guard against destroyer missiles?

This is precisely the dilema. Of course, it's only a dilema if there's simultaneously an OSC and a credible threat to AV13 facing the knight...Tau doesn't have too many dire threats to AV13, and nobody else has OSCs...it's not something for knights to lose sleep over, at least after the bandwagon effect fades in a month or so.


His interpretation was that it wouldn't matter. The shot is still coming from the front in both cases, just the Stealth Cadre get to use the number from the Rear AV instead of the Front for determining Pens.

~sigh~ Rules, not wishes. The shields guard against shots hitting the specified facing, not originating in a specified quadrant. The wall of mirrors causes shots to resolve against rear armor, it does not reduce the armor value of the facing that corresponds to the quadrant in which the tau shooter is located.


Ion shields (and serpent shields) are worded so that it is not where the shot comes from that counts. its what armor facing is hit that counts.
A Knight with his shield to the front, getting shot at by a unit under the effect of Wall of Mirrors that is infront of him will not get his ion shield save.

Read the ion shield entry. It says ON that facing, not FROM that facing.

Precisely.