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Smooth Boy
17-10-2015, 01:31
I was just wondering, with the imminent release of the Horus Heresy game, whether people are really that looking forward to collecting (what is essentially) another Space Marine army? Does anyone else think the HH would have suited a 10mm or smaller scale where the huge planet wide battles could really shine? Just a suggestion for discussion. Lately I just can't seem to get that excited for something that I actually thought I wanted ever since I read the first five novels in the series.

Mawduce
17-10-2015, 01:40
sounds like you describing EPIC, they dumped that game as it was too special and took sales away from 40k.

DuskRaider
17-10-2015, 01:45
There's a fan based game called Epic Heresy, check it out some time.

Smooth Boy
17-10-2015, 02:09
Yeah I guess I am basically describing Epic Armageddon which was 6mm, slightly too small imho. But I can see why that was not popular enough since it was basically collecting your existing 40k army again in a smaller scale. I just think HH will suffer from the same problem, its collecting the same army but with slightly different aesthetics. It's obviously been successful for FW but when it hits mainstream GW, where 50%+ already have space marines will it have people falling over each other to buy another 40 marines to add to the 40 they already own? Just seems like a wasted opportunity to 1) leave FW's hard work alone 2) reintroduce some variety before Drop zone Commander captures the area la x-wing/Battlefleet Gothic 3) differentiate between 40K and 30K.

e. Thanks Duskraider I didn't know net epic had lists for HH, now I just wish the models were easier to come by.

Griefbringer
17-10-2015, 07:37
Interestingly enough, the original Epic games (Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine 1st edition) were actually set at the Horus Heresy. Later Epic games however moved the setting to 41st millennium.

MajorWesJanson
17-10-2015, 08:14
I would love to see that mini-warlord titan that was a proof of concept be released, with mini versions of the other FW titans, as a new FW edition of the old Titan Legions version of Epic.

Lost Egg
17-10-2015, 08:42
Space Marine was what essentially set the Heresy in 40k lore, previously it had just been a few lines in one of the rulebooks. GW choose marine vs marine to keep the production costs low, the same with the titans in Adepts Titanicus.

I have little to no interest in the coming kit, apart from a plastic Contemptor. The armour marks are horrible and look like some kind of knight kit-bash, to me there is only one mark of marine armour...mkVI. A smaller scale would have been more interesting as to me 40k has been bloated at anything over 1000pts for quite a few editions.

Spiney Norman
17-10-2015, 09:36
No I would almost certainly have been interested in a game that scale, I want models I can do a good job of painting with details I can pick out. Smaller scale games have the advantage of being cheaper (generally) and quicker to paint models, but I'm not really looking for either of those in a game.

Vos
17-10-2015, 09:55
There is a thriving Epic community out there, including people that are making (totally illegally) knock offs of the forge world kit but in Epic 6mm scale.
They have been stung in the past and have received cease and desist notices from GW. I know the forum names of one of these guys but for obvious reasons they only share/sell this stuff to their close friends. I have asked people on forums if I can buy death guard marines and 30K vehicles in 6mmand am firmly but politely told to go away. I am not part of the inner circle of the 10 or so guys who seem to have posted pictures of beautifully painted epic 30K models and I understand from internet chatter exchanges that even these guys have now been told to stop posting pictures of them by the source in case the GW secret police get excited again.

Its all a big shame as I know the source has even approached GW in the past and offered to give them his sculpts/moulds for free and has been told no. Its all also rather frustrating as I would love to get into it but I can't get hold of any of the figures - only the old '40K' epic from e bay. As I'm an all or nothing kind of guy I've basically given up on 30K in Epic scale for now. So I'm sticking with Warmaster (which I have huge collections and already own most of all of the oop and rare stuff for now and which I am a part of an inner circle of sculpters/casters) and getting into Horus Heresy via Forgeworld in 30mm scale. Its less of a 'rage quit' and more of a 'rage not start'! :)

Spiney - you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Its very easy to collect a massive Epic or Warmaster army that will cost you over 1000 just to buy the lead and which are painted to a higher standard than many of the higher end gaming quality 30mm versions of Warhammer/40K armies you see knocking around. Check out the 'Iron Painter's' blog and have a look at my Skaven Warmaster army!

Vos

Inquisitor Kallus
17-10-2015, 11:43
I would love to see that mini-warlord titan that was a proof of concept be released, with mini versions of the other FW titans, as a new FW edition of the old Titan Legions version of Epic.

Indeed, it would be great though itd probably be priced as something ridiculous like 100...

vlad78
17-10-2015, 21:15
Yeah I guess I am basically describing Epic Armageddon which was 6mm, slightly too small imho. But I can see why that was not popular enough since it was basically collecting your existing 40k army again in a smaller scale. I just think HH will suffer from the same problem, its collecting the same army but with slightly different aesthetics. It's obviously been successful for FW but when it hits mainstream GW, where 50%+ already have space marines will it have people falling over each other to buy another 40 marines to add to the 40 they already own? Just seems like a wasted opportunity to 1) leave FW's hard work alone 2) reintroduce some variety before Drop zone Commander captures the area la x-wing/Battlefleet Gothic 3) differentiate between 40K and 30K.

e. Thanks Duskraider I didn't know net epic had lists for HH, now I just wish the models were easier to come by.

Epic was popular 20 years ago, GW just killed it by changing the rules toward a really abstract system which had too many differences with the original concept and let prices skyrocket to the point of shutting almost all their customers base in one go when epic armageddon was released.
GW behaved as if they wanted to kill this game which they did imho.

Leftenant Gashrog
18-10-2015, 01:19
Epic was popular 20 years ago, GW just killed it by changing the rules toward a really abstract system which had too many differences with the original concept and let prices skyrocket to the point of shutting almost all their customers base in one go when epic armageddon was released.

It was Epic 40,000 that killed the line, Epic: Armageddon was a runaway success by Specialist Games standards apparently, but it was too little too late to save the brand.

Troublemaker Games makes some very good Epic Space Marine proxies that different enough to avoid litigation but close enough at that scale to pass muster, they are 'true scale' so are about 8mm (apposed to the old rank & file GW Epic marines which were 5.5mm).

Smooth Boy
18-10-2015, 23:34
Troublemaker Games has apparently ceased trading, the line is now owned by Vanguard Miniatures.

Edzard
19-10-2015, 13:20
Dropzone Commander is quite a succes and is in 10mm scale, so I think there is definitly a market for the smaller scales. (Hell, I do 15mm, 6mm and 3mm scale historicals)

It would take quite an investment for GW, but with digital sculpting and rapid prototyping releasing a range of smaller scale miniatures would be easier than in the past. What it would add for them I don't know, and it would fracture their player base a little perhaps.

Edzard
19-10-2015, 13:20
Dropzone Commander is quite a succes and is in 10mm scale, so I think there is definitly a market for the smaller scales. (Hell, I do 15mm, 6mm and 3mm scale historicals)

It would take quite an investment for GW, but with digital sculpting and rapid prototyping releasing a range of smaller scale miniatures would be easier than in the past. What it would add for them I don't know, and it would fracture their player base a little perhaps.

jimmyzimms
23-10-2015, 14:01
Space Marine was what essentially set the Heresy in 40k lore, previously it had just been a few lines in one of the rulebooks. GW choose marine vs marine to keep the production costs low, the same with the titans in Adepts Titanicus.


THANK YOU. I canno tell you how many times I hear factually incorrect stuff about epic and it's foundational place in creating the 40k setting. Beyond just establishing the Horus Heresy (and again, kudos for you for remembering Horus was only mentioned in a few lines in the old Realm of Chaos books on some artwork) it was responsible for creating things the Davin warrior lodges, Isstvan Virus Bombing, the Flight of the Eisenstein, creating characters like Garro and Tarvitz, naming multiple primarchs, the Ultras and Word Bearers going at it being arch enemies, and the Siege of the Emperors Palace. EACH of these were created in the Epic/AT fluff. Stuff that FW/GW ape to this day for their releases.



It was Epic 40,000 that killed the line, Epic: Armageddon was a runaway success by Specialist Games standards apparently, but it was too little too late to save the brand.
VERY TRUE. That and the skuttlebutt from people here who were at GWHQ at that time was that releases from Epic (and SG in general) saw a corresponding drop in 40k which the margins were higher on. The were purposely pushed off to the side and removed from the core site/stores/publications/marketing which pretty much guarenteed they'd drop from the GW gamer consciousness.

Malakai
23-10-2015, 21:51
Adeptus Titanicus I never played but is set during the HH. Space Marine added infantry and other races. It takes place in the 41st millennium. I preferred Titan Legions. It introduced bigger titans, and was a natural progression of rules from Space Marine to essentially SM 2nd ed. Epic 40K killed all of that. It was a monumental fail from a sales point of view despite arguably some of the best models for the game being released at this time. There are fans of the rules for this game but I found it dumbed down and dull, others thought it 'elegant.' Either way a commercial failure. Epic Armageddon is a cool game but very small. I can field more tanks and infantry in a game of 40K Apocalypse if I chose to than in Epic.

I'm a big fan of Epic but that game is dead. Much Like WFB.

Malakai
23-10-2015, 21:57
There is a thriving Epic community out there, including people that are making (totally illegally) knock offs of the forge world kit but in Epic 6mm scale.
They have been stung in the past and have received cease and desist notices from GW. I know the forum names of one of these guys but for obvious reasons they only share/sell this stuff to their close friends. I have asked people on forums if I can buy death guard marines and 30K vehicles in 6mmand am firmly but politely told to go away. I am not part of the inner circle of the 10 or so guys who seem to have posted pictures of beautifully painted epic 30K models and I understand from internet chatter exchanges that even these guys have now been told to stop posting pictures of them by the source in case the GW secret police get excited again.

Its all a big shame as I know the source has even approached GW in the past and offered to give them his sculpts/moulds for free and has been told no. Its all also rather frustrating as I would love to get into it but I can't get hold of any of the figures - only the old '40K' epic from e bay. As I'm an all or nothing kind of guy I've basically given up on 30K in Epic scale for now. So I'm sticking with Warmaster (which I have huge collections and already own most of all of the oop and rare stuff for now and which I am a part of an inner circle of sculpters/casters) and getting into Horus Heresy via Forgeworld in 30mm scale. Its less of a 'rage quit' and more of a 'rage not start'! :)

Spiney - you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Its very easy to collect a massive Epic or Warmaster army that will cost you over 1000 just to buy the lead and which are painted to a higher standard than many of the higher end gaming quality 30mm versions of Warhammer/40K armies you see knocking around. Check out the 'Iron Painter's' blog and have a look at my Skaven Warmaster army!

Vos

I know the community you're talking about. I helped write an Eldar list. I know that Jervis Johnson was handed a "fan-made' copy of a Dark Eldar supplement.

bound for glory
23-10-2015, 22:58
the "fan made" book? i know bill s. who did alot of the work on that.

Leftenant Gashrog
24-10-2015, 02:05
Adeptus Titanicus I never played but is set during the HH. Space Marine added infantry and other races. It takes place in the 41st millennium. I preferred Titan Legions. It introduced bigger titans, and was a natural progression of rules from Space Marine to essentially SM 2nd ed.

There were two editions of Space Marine, the original version with Dark Angels on the cover was set during the Horus Heresy, the version set in the 41st millenium was the 2nd edition, though GW never referred to it as such.

Lost Egg
24-10-2015, 07:40
THANK YOU

:D My pleasure

Griefbringer
24-10-2015, 17:42
THANK YOU. I canno tell you how many times I hear factually incorrect stuff about epic and it's foundational place in creating the 40k setting. Beyond just establishing the Horus Heresy (and again, kudos for you for remembering Horus was only mentioned in a few lines in the old Realm of Chaos books on some artwork)

Well, my copy of the Realms of Chaos - Slaves to Darkness has three pages of background information dedicated to a general description of Horus Heresy, plus some more information about the role of some of the legions (World Eaters, Emperors Children, Black Legion) in it.

Granted, Space Marine 1st edition brought in more detail, though it is quite a long time since I have read that book.