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TheHuminoid
20-10-2015, 19:44
I have always wondered why there isn't a book for every first founding chapter like how the dark angles has their own.
1. GW doesn't have a monetary reason not to because they would easily sell many books because people would buy for their favorite chapter and then their special units
2. They could have all the super cool specialist formations for each chapter, like (using salamander cause they are the ones I know the most about) salamaders for example
Specialist units
--Pyre guard
--Pyroclast
(they could even expand the lore and add some more)
Specialty weapons
-- Volkite weapons could be a thing
-- Specialty flamer/new types
-- Make could do a sort of thing like smaller thunder hammers and have them be used in a specialy squad like dual hand hammers
Vehicles
-- Roll out some special land raider configurations
-- maybe even a little beefier version of the land speed

So I mean they don't have a reason not to.

insectum7
20-10-2015, 19:58
Because it's not needed. I feel the current non-vanilla SM books are already too over-developed for their own good.

Lord Damocles
20-10-2015, 20:40
Perhaps there are just some depths GW has the dignity not to plumb.


Does anybody actually want more marine variants?* They're not benefiting game balance, background, and are actually detrimental to the other Marine colours.




*Okay, yeah, sure. (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-ES/The-Horus-Heresy)

TheHuminoid
20-10-2015, 20:59
I mean with the expansion to the lore it may be a little easier for people outside the hobby to find something that they like and then start playing.

insectum7
20-10-2015, 21:42
I mean with the expansion to the lore it may be a little easier for people outside the hobby to find something that they like and then start playing.

Expansion of the lore is very different than creating entire army rulesets. There were many fans of Dark Angels before they had super fancy bikers, all it took were some great background pieces in a Space Hulk Expansion and some tidbits in white dwarf back in the day. There were fans of Space Wolves before Thunderwolves. A handful of special rules for chapter variants is enough.

Want more rules? Expand on Chaos legions and renegades, already. I can't for the life of me understand why they haven't.

Charistoph
20-10-2015, 21:57
Because it's not needed. I feel the current non-vanilla SM books are already too over-developed for their own good.

Pretty much this. Of the surviving 9 Loyalist Legions, 8 are considered very codex-adherent with minor quirks. Both Angel Chapters are specifically listed as being codex-adherent, but they managed to shoe-horn the second-least adherent Chapter Codex in to the Codex Marines. A majority of the differences in the Angel books can be inserted without any trouble.

Only the Puppies would have trouble, and that's more due to the Wolf Guard Sergeants and Long Fangs set up now, more than almost anything else.

There is more to gain from more Chaos Daemonkin books than Codex: Imperial Fists, and I LIKE the Fists.

Scammel
20-10-2015, 22:27
I think Space Marines would easily be the last faction to warrant such an arrangement. I can think of no others that base their modus operandi on a single textbook, and where divergent sub-factions are limited to a few thousand individuals in every case.

Ok, I do entirely appreciate that particular Chapters are very cool and I wouldn't exactly begrudge such an arrangement, but it would almost certainly be at the expense of everyone else.

SuperHappyTime
20-10-2015, 22:43
I think the line of progression was that they were going to make a book for every Chapter. After the Angels release they probably discovered that the idea wasn't profitable enough to justify giving everyone the special treatment (and besides, space should be about more races than the Marines).

That is, at least until the Horus Hersey got bigger.

Marshal_Loss
20-10-2015, 23:11
Let's keep the 30k units & wargear in 30k. Chapter tactics are enough

Okuto
20-10-2015, 23:13
I have always wondered why there isn't a book for every first founding chapter like how the dark angles has their own.
1. GW doesn't have a monetary reason not to because they would easily sell many books because people would buy for their favorite chapter and then their special units
2. They could have all the super cool specialist formations for each chapter, like (using salamander cause they are the ones I know the most about) salamaders for example
Specialist units
--Pyre guard
--Pyroclast
(they could even expand the lore and add some more)
Specialty weapons
-- Volkite weapons could be a thing
-- Specialty flamer/new types
-- Make could do a sort of thing like smaller thunder hammers and have them be used in a specialy squad like dual hand hammers
Vehicles
-- Roll out some special land raider configurations
-- maybe even a little beefier version of the land speed

So I mean they don't have a reason not to.

You do realize not everyone plays loyalist marines ya? Granted you are the majority and the oh so merciful, immortal master and protector of the realms, great architect, self proclaimed monarch of miniature companies, their holy imperial majesty GW seems to adore you and shower you with its graces.

However there's a bunch of us Plebs who'd like to get some scrapes from time to time;)

A.T.
21-10-2015, 00:13
I have always wondered why there isn't a book for every first founding chapter like how the dark angles has their own.The books are there to support the model line.

No model, no unit. No units, no book.

Tokamak
21-10-2015, 00:33
Let's keep the 30k units & wargear in 30k. Chapter tactics are enough

Plus Forgeworld ensured their icons are more ornamental than most 40K stuff. From there on it truly is up to the player to roleplay the selected legion.

TheHuminoid
21-10-2015, 02:18
I see what you guys are saying so maybe roll it all into a few runs of white dwarf?
Not a full fledged release but just some extra rules/lore to flesh out each first founding chapter in their own right and give them their own special bit and bobs.

Voss
21-10-2015, 03:15
No, they don't need special bits and bobs. The lore bits are already floating around. That Primarch X wanted the boltgun praise rituals on Tuesday rather than the Codex mandated Wednesday nights makes no difference at all.

The poor signal to noise ratio on the made up junk that got shoehorned into the recentversions of DA codex should be an indication that this is a terrible idea.

Perth
21-10-2015, 03:16
I'd like to see the chapters represented by Codex: Space Marines get a bit more representation. I'd like to see one Chapter specific unit or upgrade for each Chapter stuck in somewhere. For example, Black Templars get their crusader squads, Iron Hands can upgrade Techmarines to Forge-Fathers, Salamanders can take Heavy Flamers in Tac/Command squads, Imperial Fists get breachers, Raven Guard Scouts can buy Stealth, Ultramarines Tacticals can buy Sicarius's Battle Forged Heros rule, White Scars can buy more CC weapons on bike squads. Or something along those lines.

TheHuminoid
21-10-2015, 03:51
Actually Perth has a very good idea because that little 1 paragraph thing at the end of the space marine book is a little silly

totgeboren
21-10-2015, 11:16
All that is needed is to do it like they did in the 3.5 CSM codex. One page of special rules is more than enough to differentiate the different legions/chapters.
Why the BA and especially the DA have their own books I will never understand (I'm not entirely sold on the idea that for example DA fans would not have bought the SM codex if that contained rules for the DA. Did BT players all stop playing because they got rolled into the SM codex for example? Would the players who started up BTs never have played GW games if it was not for the unique BT rules? I doubt it.)

I was a devout (pun intended) WB player back in 2ed, long before they got special rules in WD. And the special rules they got was 2 upgrades, a power weapon with an in-built 4++ save, and a 6" fearless aura, both intended to turn a Chaos Lord into something more like a Chaos Chaplain.
And that was more than enough!

A.T.
21-10-2015, 12:13
I'd like to see the chapters represented by Codex: Space Marines get a bit more representation. I'd like to see one Chapter specific unit or upgrade for each Chapter stuck in somewhere.That is essentially the Clan Raukaan / Sentinels of Terra style approach, though GW seems to be of two minds as to whether they want to actually put any effort into producing those supplements.

blackcherry
21-10-2015, 12:53
I get the feeling that Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves got their own books because back in the day when GW wasn't as large and the designers were given more free reign and treated a bit like rock stars, those books were made and a model range to go with them. Around Third Edition almost every chapter variant was getting at least one box of their own (white scar's bikers for example) with the ones with their own books getting a whole range of their own.

So now those ranges have been established, well, don't fix what ain't broke eh? But the design team couldn't really support having to update an extra 10+ books every few years. They seem stretched as it is.

A.T.
21-10-2015, 14:30
The 'big four' were established pretty far back, with the Ultramarines being perhaps the odd one out in that they usurped the position of the Crimson Fists, possibly due to the name or just because their theme better fit the roman legions in space that GW was going for - the ultras started getting more cover time with the space crusade games IIRC and ultimately a 2nd ed codex.

Then you had vampires in space, werewolves in space, and mystic tribals in space, all with their own books in 2nd, their own rules in epic, staring rolls in space hulk/crusade, and so on. The 1988 RT book of the Astronomican had the first big space wolf campaign in IIRC (and a smaller bit on white scars) while Blood Angels featured as both Andy Chambers RT marine army in the and also the cover-chapter of several core books, 1989 Space Hulk, and 2nd ed.

I don't think the dark angels got much coverage before the space hulk expansions. Order of model release was IIRC space wolves 1992, with BA and DA either side of the 2nd ed rules release in 1993. Their later 2nd edition codex releases (94 and 96) were mainly character models.

Rogue Star
23-10-2015, 08:40
Actually Perth has a very good idea because that little 1 paragraph thing at the end of the space marine book is a little silly

Well it's not any sillier than the other Codex which don't have factions? The Orks have different clans, but they don't even get something like Chapter Tactics for it... same with the Eldar. I'm pretty sure every other army would love to have something like Chapter Tactics for different Craftworlds, Septs, Ork Clans, Splinter Fleets, Dynasties, Kabals and Legions... unfortunately GW can't support all the ones they have right now, without adding even more.