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gorenut
08-07-2006, 07:29
This is a quick army I've whipped up on a whim to see if I might start on a DoW army. Majority of it consists of models I already have or like and you will notice it is heavily themed in 1 way. I created this army because I wanted something that really contrasted my Empire army. My main opponent are Khorne mortals. People don't go magic heavy in my group. Any advice is appreciated. Here it goes:

General
-Heavy armor
-Sword of Might, Enchanted shield

Paymaster
-Heavy armor, shield, pistol
-Talisman of protection

Pirazzo's Lost Legion x 24

Duellist x 8
-pistols

Duellist x 8
-pistols

Ironguts x 4
-musician

Leadbelchers x 4
-musician

Maneaters x 3
-1 Cathayan Long Sword
-1 Great Weapon
-1 Brace of pistols

Dwarfs x 20
-Heavy armor, shield, crossbow
-full command

Bronzinos Galloper Guns x 2

I guess my main concern are the Maneaters. I really have no experience with them at all. I just like the idea of them. That squad is obviously my most expensive. Should I just use 1 lone one? How should I equip them? Second, not 100% sure about the Leadbelchers, but I sure do like the concept and the models. Third, the dwarfs, I like the models, but not sure if they'd belong in my army. I have them because I love the models and it seems that it'll provide me with some tough out of range CR along with some minor shooting. I'll definitely try to find a hill, deploy them really wide until opponents come close. Lastly, I'm contemplating getting maybe a Giant in my army and replacing one of the galloper guns. I like the idea of having 2 mobile artillary pieces, but a Giant seems like it'd fit in.

Again, thanks for any input.

Harding xxx
08-07-2006, 11:32
Firstly, why do you have 2 regiments of renown in a 2000 point army list, you have 3 units from the dogs of war army list and 3 unit's of Ogres as well as only 2 Hero's without any magic capabilities. I collect dogs of war and i suggest that although this army might have some kick assness, you have no magic, so it would probably be best to drop some of the ogres. You have 71 models in 2000 points, so you should probably get some more ranked up units of pikemen, cause they kick ass, with their 4 rank attacks, I suggest that you drop the Pirazzo's lost legion, because they're just a couple of crossbowmen, and some pikemen with a hero though i like the Giant and Bronzino's Galloper guns. Maybe you should drop the Dwarfs, unless you can think of a reason for them, hope i've been a help.

Reabe
08-07-2006, 12:01
Personally, I would get in a level 2 Wizard, mainly just to try and combat the wizard on the other side, and get the Republican Guard ROR in.

I've got a friend on a Dogs of War Forum (http://s10.invisionfree.com/Inquisition_De_Cobre) who's very interested in tactics. I'll tell him about this topic.

gorenut
08-07-2006, 16:10
Oops, sorry for not being more clear. I'm not worried about magic because currently, no one really uses magic in our group. My main opponent will be Khorne. Dwarfs are in there too. The wood elf and dark elf go very light on magic. Bottom line is, I don't find DoW heroes that impressive if I'm not going to bother with magic. I just need the Paymaster and the leadership.

With the RoR, I was under the impression that you can take Pirazzo's Lost Legion without taking Pirazzo. Atleast Army Builder allowed me to do that. I guess my mistake for depending too much on that program for validity. Not a problem, I can switch them into a generic pike unit.

Thanks for the input so far.

DirtJumper
08-07-2006, 16:25
I would keep pirrazo's pikemen. They cost about the same as a regular unit of pikes, and have a front rank of crossbows to boot. It may not be a huge amout of shooting, but it's enough to widdle down someone's ranks and it can do some pretty serious damage on a stand and shoot, plus then you get to go first with all those pikes.

god octo
08-07-2006, 20:37
with the mercenary general, you could swap his sword of might for a morning star, it has almost the same effect, but is [B]much[B]cheaper.

DirtJumper
08-07-2006, 20:55
The problem with the morning star is that it only grants +1 str in the first round of combat.

IsawaShori
09-07-2006, 02:19
I like the list with the exception of no cavalry. I would drop the Ironguts, you have Maneaters and Leadbelchers, and drop the great weapons on the Maneaters. With the points you save get some fast cavalry. I would say get a mage, but you addressed that question already. In regards to the Lost Legion, I have discovered RoR's are a matter of personal taste. Personally I much prefer Rico's Republican Guard, but I have talked with a lot of mercenary generals who love the Lost Legion. Good luck with your games and have fun.

Adlan
09-07-2006, 07:48
Personally, I like the direction this list is going. With two Tough infantry blocks to hold the enemy, whilee ogres take the place of cavalrey and smash the opponents units in the flank. Dullists to protect the flanks, and The Galloper guns to take out big nasty Gribblies and reduce your opponents numbers.

However, I feel you have to many hard hitting small units (ogres) and not enough warm bodies. Bump up the unit of dwarfs, and maybe swap out Iron Guts for more pikemen.

Fast Cavlrey would also be good, as this list has nothing apart from dullists to counter opposing skermishers.

Re RoR: My personal favourite pikeblock is the Lepord company. 70pts more than a regular unit of 30 and a captain for immune to psychology? well worth it. No more running from undead, no more panic :D, and the captain dosn't take up a hero slot.

gorenut
09-07-2006, 09:54
So you guys all think Leadbelchers fit in this army better than Ironguts? Personally, I have them because I don't have heavy cav. That's something I openly decided upon and used another unit to help take it's place.

I'm thinking of giving all my Maneaters Cathayan Swords.

Also, I can get rid of all the Crossbows for the dwarfs and increase the ranks of pikeman, dwarfs, or both (which will give me 30 pikemen and 25 dwarfs).

What do you guys think?

CarlostheCraven
10-07-2006, 18:47
In this list, I think that the Ironguts will serve you better than the Leadbelchers. Leadbelchers are really mediocre in non-Ogre armies - you have better, more reliable ways of getting in enough shooting in your standard DoW units - duellists, xbowmen, cannons, halflings, the hotpot, cannons, etc. The Ironguts grant you high strength counter-punch.

I like the Lost Legion, I usually run it and the Republican Guard rather than the Dwarfs.

The Maneaters cannot have both pistols and greatweapons - pick one. Also running them singlely allows you to create stubborn 8 roadblocks for the rest of your force to work around. A DoW giant would provide you with another stubborn unit. Removing the Dwarfs and Leadbelchers would allow you to do this.

I also prefer a standard cannon to the Galloper Guns - cheaper and better, though lacking the flavour.

Using your other character slots for more heroes could give you the combat edge you will need against Khorne.

Small units of heavy Cav are very useful for mage hunting and flanking

Cheers

gorenut
11-07-2006, 01:04
Do you think I'm better off getting 2 units of Ironguts instead of 1 Irongut and 1 Leadbelcher? I kinda wanna use as many ogres as possible, thats kinda the theme of my army.

gorenut
11-07-2006, 01:17
How about this rehash?
General
-Heavy armor
-Sword of Might, Enchanted shield

Paymaster
-Heavy armor, shield, pistol
-Talisman of protection

Captain
-Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Shield, Brace of Pistols

Captain
-Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Shield, Brace of Pistols

Pirazzo's Lost Legion x 35

Duellist x 8
-pistols

Duellist x 8
-pistols

Ironguts x 3
-musician

Ironguts x 3
-musician

Maneaters x 2
-Cathayan Long Swords

Dwarfs x 25
-Heavy armor, shield
-full command

Bronzinos Galloper Guns x 2


The Pegasus captains are there to try to steer frenzied troops away while still taking potshots with their pistols.

klinktastic
11-07-2006, 15:08
I like the list for the most part. drop one of the peg riders. 2 is overkill and only really good against one of your enemies, the idea is to make an army that is good against all of your opponents.

you want to take charges with your blocks, then counter charge with you support units. However, i dont think you have enough blocks to do this effectively. additionally, your support units are one trick ponies. they are only good at hitting not at running. for example, you can use ghouls to flee and get your opponent into juicy, flank charging positions. if they die, oh well, their big unit is screwed, where as ogres, if they run will be costly to lose. probably not worth it. thats where fast cav can come into play as well.

unit of 35 is too unwieldy as well, the flank on that will be huge and juicy.

WillFightForFood
11-07-2006, 17:25
To be honest, I would alter your use of Dwarfs. Given their speed, unless you intend on sitting back, they will likely never have a chance to use their crossbows because they will be marching every turn. Moreover, you're paying 125 points for 25 crossbows when maybe 6-7 of them will get a chance to fire a few times in game. You'd be better off just buying an entire unit of crossbowmen instead.

I'd use the Maneaters with Handguns over the cathayan sword, 24 inch range, strength 4, AP weapons that suffer no penalties for range or movement and have 2x shots? You'll get a lot more mileage out of them.

gorenut
11-07-2006, 18:17
Oops, in my altered list, I forgot to take out the Xbows for dwarfs. Thats how I made extra points for more dwarfs.

I guess I can make my pikemen smaller and maybe take even more duelists as flank protectors.

Parka boy
11-07-2006, 22:45
I must say is your list is terrible, different but still terrible Isnt Pirazzo's Lost Legion x 35 worth about 400pt and has less shots than a 80pt unit of xbowmen, no magic defence! and two DoW Captain's riding Pegasus One is a waste of points and a hero slot two is just silly I'm sorry to be all negative half the battle in warhammer is coming up with a list that works and I cant see your one working.

The DoW list has many good things to choice from light cav for 55pts a pop is a great deal and the perfect bate and flee troops. Orges are super but norsemen suit a infantry army alot more, two units of 12 flanking a unit of pikeman are a super deal but dont listen to me play a few load of games and work out what best suits you not every list suits every player and the more you play with the same army the more you learn.

gorenut
12-07-2006, 08:24
Parka Boy, as noted.. I have no magical defense because I'll be playing Khorne first.

Hence also why I have 2 Peg captains for baiting frenzied troops. I have skirmishers to protect flanks. I'll probably shrink down the pikeman down to 25-30ish and get more duellists.

Having lots of Ogres = the theme of my army list. I'm not going to eliminate them in place of Norsemen. I know I set myself up for some weaknesses but I think thats part of the fun of gaming. So I want advice based on a DoW using mostly Ogres. I'm not going to replace too many of them for other DoW unit, because then it'll start playing too much like Empire and other DoW armies.

samw
12-07-2006, 08:59
two DoW Captain's riding Pegasus One is a waste of points and a hero slot two is just silly

Oh my dear friend, you are sorely mistaken. As someone who runs two of them at 3K in my Bret list I can tell you they are fantastic troops. Firstly they are cheap, great as bait. Even experienced players who would dismiss fast cav as an annoyance will have to try hard to resist the urge to mob a hero. There's just something appealing about it, however cheap he is. Secondly they are fast. These guys get the drop on just about every fast cav unit in the game, allowing you to hit them first and send them packing, they are amazing flank protectors. Thirdly, and unparalled from a tactical point of view, they are characters and so set up last. This means you can set them up directly across from your opponents already deployed war machines for a turn two charge (and a turn one shot if you're got a pistol!) I love the guys. Keep them gorenut, they're worth their weight in gold.

Parka boy
12-07-2006, 16:15
A bret hero on a peg is slightly (its huge really) differnt to the DoW choice. The major differeces being the hero and his mount dont get the ward save or use of any magical items and brets cant get hold of.

Light cavary negate rank bonus gain flank and rear combat res and have a good sized unit strengh they are very dangrous if left alone a DoW hero of peg isnt.

If I was playing khorne I'd go for a large unit of long drong slayers instead of the dwarfs as they are super hard if you can get them into combat

gorenut
12-07-2006, 19:47
Well, I'm definitely keeping atleast one PegaCaptain. I figure if he can thwart around atleast 1 unit of Khorne Knights or squad of warriors, he's already made his points back.

CarlostheCraven
13-07-2006, 00:16
Long Drong's Slayer Pirates are a terrible choice VS Khorne (excellent against most, but not Khorne). If you do the math, Khornate Knights would chew through the slayers with little effort.

55 pt light cav may be useful for pulling him astray but sending them into the flank of a Khornate unit is tantamount to giving him additional combat res. And how exactly are they dangerous? to anybody? They have a garbage armour save, no missile weapons, and they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. 30 points of Chaos hounds could rock their world. 95 points of heavy cav, on the other hand, could cause problems.

Considering the number of distraction units you have, perhaps 2 units of crossbowmen would be quite helpful at whittling down your foe while he gets dragged around by the nose...

BTW, just how experienced is this Khornate player? the number of hound units he typically fields is probably a good indicator...

Cheers

Parka boy
13-07-2006, 00:56
Why are Long Drong's Slayer Pirates bad vs Khorne? The only problem LDS have is getting into combat with there crapy movement. Khorne knights are going to eat up anything, I'd be using a unit of light cav to pull those ubernasty knights away and perhaps if your sneaky enough you might get a flank cannon shot on them.

CarlostheCraven
13-07-2006, 04:47
Here is why Long Drong's Slayer Pirates are bad VS Khorne.
Khornate Advantages
1.) Higher movement - they will get the charge
2.) Higher Weapon Skill - they will hit the pirates on 3+
3.) High Strength - knight or halberd equiped warriors wound on 3+ (or 4+ with hand weapons)
4.) Higher Initiative - the Khornate Unit will strike first in subsequent rounds
5.) Volume of attack
6.) The Slayers have no armour

If you crunch the numbers a sixteen strong Slayer Pirate unit (267 pts, which is more than gorenuts Dwarf Unit as 255) vs a 263 point unit of 6 Khornate Knights with Champ will be wiped out in 3 rounds of Combat with 2 casualties in return (one from stand-and-fire and perhaps Drong killing the Champion in a Challenge if he lives through the the Champ's initial attacks).

Against Chosen Knights, also 6 strong with champ (335 pts) the odds of any casualties taken by the Knights drops significantly and the rate at which the pirates drops increases such that 2 rounds of combat ought to suffice to wipe out the unit.

Even Khornate infantry would have a field day, and if armed with halberds or two weapons, would chew through the slayers in about 3 rounds (they have no horses but they can lap around, at least until 7th ed if the rumours are true) as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love the slayer Pirates and they are a mainstay of any DoW tourney list I devise, but if I know that my opponent is Khornate Chaos beforehand I would have to leave them behind. The Pirates usually make an excellent tar pit, but not against units that are the fantasy equillivant of a woodchipper...

Cheers

gorenut
13-07-2006, 06:41
Not to mention that it seems very clear that pistols are getting a close combat nerf in 7th ed. I probably won't get this game going until 7th ed comes out. I'm simply planning my army ahead of time with purchases and such.

Plus I very much like the dwarf warrior models, which is partially why I want to field them in my army. Having rock hard static CR while having models I want.

EDIT: Oh yea, I appreciate everyone's input, even Parkaboys despite him hating everything about my list, haha. Any input is nice to me.

Parka boy
13-07-2006, 12:04
I like the idea of playing with models that you like i never buy models that I dont like its the reson I bought the long drong slayers.

Almost every unit in the DoW list has ws4 and a saving throw of no more than 5+ and since and most Khorne has str 5 ws 5 and alot of fear a terror causing troops with no missles I think are a great choice.

Also everything in gorenuts list with the exception of the peg has a shorter charge rage than KK which means he is going to have to hold a charge LDS are unbreakable and wont break after the charge like almost anyting else they hit.

I agree that if pistols cant be used in combat in wfb7 then the slayers get to use the slayer ability which isnt so bad as being able to field a unit of unbreakable troops is quite usefull.

I glad to be of help gorenut and I have tryed to be constructive with my criticism good luck vs Khorne let us know how it went.

DirtJumper
13-07-2006, 17:15
I would take out the Maneaters mysealf, or just run them in units of 1, That unit eats up a lot of points and isen't a whole lot better then your basic Ogre Bulls (not for the extra points you spend on them, anyhow) Leadbealchers would be a good addition, as their shooting can ruin most light-mid-or even havy armored troops in 1 round of shooting, and then go in for the kill with the same stats/bonuses of a unit of Ogre Bulls.

gorenut
13-07-2006, 17:56
Single maneater eh? So you think I should arm him with brace of handguns as well instead of the Cathayan long sword?

Since I probably won't be playing this list until 7th ed. Is it still worth arming the duellists with pistols?

Parka boy
13-07-2006, 18:35
Only one choice that makes the maneater worth the 90pts and that the magic number str7. They work very well as singles and are great at counter charging chariots and heavy cav.


The sad thing about the 7th ed is that pikes more than likely wont even make it into the main rule book (again) and so will remain matchsticks against cav that they are and DoW will no longer have duelist to counter charge cavalry.

gorenut
13-07-2006, 18:55
I dunno about that. I think both the Cathayan long sword and brace of handguns can be worth it. Against anything that isn't Chaos related, WS 5 means they'll be hitting things on 3s, which means more kills. Plus they still get armor piercing features of the long sword.

Brace of Handguns is pretty long range with no penalties and decently strength shooting (also due to AP rule). From what I recall, they still get ogre clubs too when armed with brace of handguns.. so in close combat they're still fighting with S 5 and extra armor pen.

Parka boy
13-07-2006, 20:26
still not worth 90pts because there as easy to kill as any normal ogre for twice the price. I like using handguns myself but really dont think they are worth the points. not when you can get a unit of 10 norse with GW for the same cost.

Maneaters with handguns get 5 attacks str 4 ap first round of combat then with the handguns discharged 5 str 5 attacks after that which are not ap sorry.

gorenut
13-07-2006, 20:29
Can't you choose to use the Ogre Clubs in close combat instead? Handguns don't replace the Ogre Clubs as far as I know.

Parka boy
13-07-2006, 23:34
You sure can but you cant spit the brace of handguns so its just the 4 normal attacks. I dont mind the str4 because of the ap if I went up agaisnt t5 i'd drop the handguns.

I like to stick him close to i a unit of dualist moving 6 a turn and giving surporting fire, but in reality his shooting will do very little compaired to his h2h and when his backed up with a duelists with pistols they wack a nice puch with lost of that lovely bretbane, and if they lose theres hope that the maneater stays and allows the duelist to retreat.

gorenut
13-07-2006, 23:43
Yea, but thats another concern of mine. I don't know if 4 extra pts will be worth it for the duelists once 7th ed rolls around. Not sure what other arnaments would be efficient for them.

Parka boy
14-07-2006, 11:08
I think they will still worth it to have one unit of them but i guess we will have to wait and find out.