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Pegasus_Knight
27-10-2015, 19:19
So i've just been thinking, how is it that games workshop are soo good at secret keeping. presumably all the stores know what products are coming out with good enough notice to be able to promote them. Models take time to design, develop and manufacture. Rules sets are made up, play tested and presumably fed back on and altered and then printed out. Novels are planned and written. Thats a lot of different people spread about, but its rare that we get information long before the big GW want us to. Just a ponder really...

Drakkar du Chaos
27-10-2015, 19:29
They not really good at it. For AoS we knew a lot about it months before release but with gaming rumors its always hard to know what is true and what is not.
If i think about companies skilled for keeping secrets, GW does not come to my mind because they just NEVER communicate, but things like automobile industry yeah they are usually good at it if they want while much more people are involved in automobile production process than gaming process.

SuperHappyTime
27-10-2015, 19:56
Call this crazy but as much as we think GW staff as a whole don't like the direction the company is heading, I think most like their jobs, or would rather stay out of prison.

They do need to take a hint from WotC and realize community spoilers generates more hype than a weekly magazine.

Spiney Norman
27-10-2015, 21:47
They not really good at it. For AoS we knew a lot about it months before release but with gaming rumors its always hard to know what is true and what is not.
If i think about companies skilled for keeping secrets, GW does not come to my mind because they just NEVER communicate, but things like automobile industry yeah they are usually good at it if they want while much more people are involved in automobile production process than gaming process.

To be fair they are pretty good at keeping secrets, yes we get the occasional long term leak like the Horus heresy marine sprues getting posted, but in reality although there were rumblings about AoS months in advance we knew very little before the official GW announcement. In the main they do a pretty good job of keeping things under wraps until the WD weekly mag goes out which is usually less than a week before their official announcements anyway.

Given the number of people that would have to know about a release to actually make it happen, their attempts to limit information getting into the public domain appear to be quite successful.

Yrch
27-10-2015, 23:27
im sure thats one of the reasons why GW still does make their stuff in nottingham, tighter contracts and easier to overwatch/find leakers.
if they would mass manufacture their stuff in china, not only would the sprues be copied before they release, stuff would leaks MONTHS ahead with no way to tell where cause China dont care.

yeah we get some leaks and rumors, but most of em are vague. considering the long time it takes from the design stage, to production and release, its really impressive how little stuff leaks until days before.

Katastrophe
27-10-2015, 23:29
To be fair they are pretty good at keeping secrets, yes we get the occasional long term leak like the Horus heresy marine sprues getting posted, but in reality although there were rumblings about AoS months in advance we knew very little before the official GW announcement. In the main they do a pretty good job of keeping things under wraps until the WD weekly mag goes out which is usually less than a week before their official announcements anyway.

Given the number of people that would have to know about a release to actually make it happen, their attempts to limit information getting into the public domain appear to be quite successful.

Actually we knew plenty about AoS pretty far in advance, just no one was willing to accept what was being said because it was so dramatic a change from WFB. The Spanish rumors were, in retrospect, very accurate considering a lack of context for the leakers. There was also some conflation of things being revealed in The End Times.

MagicAngle
28-10-2015, 02:23
Yeah - in retrospect the Spanish rumors reflected really poor secrecy from GW. IIRC they derived from some meeting that a rep had with some Spanish store owners or something along those lines, almost 2 years before AoS actually dropped.

It seems like the ET and AoS were a barely-kept secret, but GW was protected by the sheer implausibility of what they were about to inflict upon its gaming community. No-one could believe it.

jet_palero
28-10-2015, 02:28
So i've just been thinking, how is it that games workshop are soo good at secret keeping. presumably all the stores know what products are coming out with good enough notice to be able to promote them. Models take time to design, develop and manufacture. Rules sets are made up, play tested and presumably fed back on and altered and then printed out. Novels are planned and written. Thats a lot of different people spread about, but its rare that we get information long before the big GW want us to. Just a ponder really...

GW started getting super secretive when they got the LOTR license. it was probably a requirement of that contract, and they simple spread it across their entire company. if you make it clear what people are and aren't allowed to talk about outside of work, most people will follow the rules. Keeping things "need to know" is also very important. I've worked in places with confidentiality agreements, and people are generally cooperative and want to do the right thing. If you've got bitter employees who are willing to break those agreements, you should already have fired them. Its usually when things start coming out of the company's umbrella (shipping, subcontractors and such) that mistakes are made and leaks get out.

AngryAngel
28-10-2015, 02:57
GW is very good at keeping secrets. Most likely because if it wasn't for spur of the moment sales, they'd lose a lot of cash. As with time to really plan out these buys, I know many talk themselves into more moderate purchases. It is really a survival mechanism for poor practices but, I do remember when we did know stuff long ahead of time, those were the days.

hardyworld
28-10-2015, 04:21
They do need to take a hint from WotC and realize community spoilers generates more hype than a weekly magazine.
Completely agree. The hype that used to be built from rumors before each army book back in the 6th and 7th editions helped each release a lot. I never understood why GW became so secretive a few years ago, the old hype machine based on rumors only helped sales of both the released army and WD sales.

75hastings69
28-10-2015, 05:45
I think they are good at keeping a lid on stuff, to a degree..... ;)

However this.......
....presumably all the stores know what products are coming out with good enough notice to be able to promote them..

Isn't correct. The stores genuinely know just about as much as we do, in fact sometimes a lot less. I once went in to GW ******* and was chatting to the guy there about the upcoming WoC update, he didn't know anything about it AT ALL...... so I let him have a look at the new army book ;) (It was only 3 months before release though). Usually the stores don't KNOW what's coming before about 2 weeks in advance. Not like the days they'd send out upcoming minis to the stores so they paint and display them for release, they stopped that ages ago.

Design process begins about 2 years before release, so to keep quiet for this length of time and keep leaks to a minimum is pretty good going IMO.

I'm not sure that GWs secretive nature is benefcial to them in all honesty, others seem to be having more success engaging the community and sharing their future plans. I don't see the way GW handles this topic ever changing TBH.

Buddy Bear
28-10-2015, 05:58
Supposedly they like to keep things close to the vest to prevent third party companies from making their own cheaper versions and putting them out. But I thought that people buy GW miniatures because they want high quality models, so why would subpar third party creations be considered a threat to them? GW really does seem to me like they have a schizophrenic business plan.

Kyriakin
28-10-2015, 10:03
im sure thats one of the reasons why GW still does make their stuff in nottingham, tighter contracts and easier to overwatch/find leakers.
if they would mass manufacture their stuff in china, not only would the sprues be copied before they release, stuff would leaks MONTHS ahead with no way to tell where cause China dont care.
In China, they will likely keep the machines running through the night, so the owner can have a earlier and more comfortable retirement.

Bloodknight
28-10-2015, 13:10
Yea, and the production of the night shift would instantly go on the black market.

Drakkar du Chaos
28-10-2015, 16:16
To be fair they are pretty good at keeping secrets, yes we get the occasional long term leak like the Horus heresy marine sprues getting posted, but in reality although there were rumblings about AoS months in advance we knew very little before the official GW announcement. In the main they do a pretty good job of keeping things under wraps until the WD weekly mag goes out which is usually less than a week before their official announcements anyway.

Given the number of people that would have to know about a release to actually make it happen, their attempts to limit information getting into the public domain appear to be quite successful.


I think you are overestimating greatly the numbers of people involved in development process at GW. Also like others said before we knew a lot about AoS very early but we just cannot believe it.

Captain Marius
28-10-2015, 20:21
I was in a GW store recently where three customers were chatting to the manager about the upcoming HH game and he moaned about people telling him about upcoming stuff replacing a line of products (Hobbit) that he has to sell... I mean come on, he saw the sprues ages ago like we did - the disrespect GW show their frontline staff is disgraceful. Marketing 101 would have been to drop teaser ads in white dwarf for at least the last 6 months with the Eye of Horus on and no explanation. And similarly do the same with the new AoS symbol during that godforsaken gap between ET Archaon and the AoS launch. Maybe a silhouette of a sigmarine or a Blood Warrior... i recall a lovely double page spread in White Dwarf back in the day with the Imperial Aquila and the roman numerals III heralded the release of 40k 3rd ed. They dont have to spill all the beans, thats what our rumourmancers are for (and seriously i get more excitement for upcoming releases out of Harry and Hastings, and now Atia's posts than I do from GWs lame weekly release schedule) but teasing new releases is a fundamental marketing technique. What was the last one, a close up of the manticore's fur texture for Storm of Magic, released 6 months later? Come on GW sort it out!

RevEv
29-10-2015, 09:42
I'm ancient enough to remember GW before the time of widespread internet forums and actually prefer the new, secretive, nature of how GW handle rumours as it harks back to that time when only stores and hints in WD were the source of rumours. That was quite exciting and, as online leaks became more prevalent, I missed the excitement of each monthly WD and the release of new models that brought. This became severely restricted when GW sold its soul to get the LOTR contract and had to sign a secrecy clause that, if broken (so it is rumoured), would have sunk the company.

It has got a bit silly now though, with the loss of 'black boxes' to stores meaning that they struggle to get painted examples of new models on display in a reasonable time.

This has led to the increased influence of the 'rumourmancers' on forums such as these. I'm so glad, considering the forthcoming WD, I didn't listen to their rumours that Lizardmen had been 'squatted' in AoS.

theJ
29-10-2015, 11:28
So i've just been thinking, how is it that games workshop are soo good at secret keeping.
Actually, keeping secrets is surprisingly easy, once you set your mind to it. Even for companies, the key is to simply limit the number of people "in the know", and make sure those precious few are well aware of WHAT they are supposed to never-ever-mention, and WHY they ought to not mention it(would reduce sales/would spoil the surprise/imma firin' mah' employees).

presumably all the stores know what products are coming out with good enough notice to be able to promote them. Models take time to design, develop and manufacture. Rules sets are made up, play tested and presumably fed back on and altered and then printed out. Novels are planned and written.
Nope. One of the main issues and/or complaints against GW is that they do none of those things - staffers never get to know what they're supposed to sell in time to prepare, rules are never playtested, novels do not get a testaudience... nothing gets out, no matter the cost.
Only a few, core developers, writers and higher-ups know what is going on... and even then, I wouldn't be surprised if even they know only of their own projects.

aprilmanha
29-10-2015, 12:11
I used to be one of the Retail Staff, and at the time we knew as much as the customers about what was coming 90% of the time.
We used to get a Black box once a month with the new kits in to build and paint for display so would get to see what was released in the month after... but we always used to show them off to customers to build hype for he coming release.

Then the Black boxes stopped coming and the Retail staffs info packs became limited to only really major releases (Finecast, new game editions etc) so it quickly became that staff would only know of the new releases when the WD announced that they were coming out and were ready for Preorder.

I used to have to field that question quite alot before the customers realised that an internet search was much more helpful then the information we were given to share.

Bloodknight
29-10-2015, 13:43
My uninformed guess is that the store people leaked too much when they got early information, including scans of books and such. Not surprisingly, though, given that a lot of the retail staff often were excited kids that worked a few hours per week to take advantage of the employee discount.

Denny
29-10-2015, 17:48
My uninformed guess is that the store people leaked too much when they got early information, including scans of books and such. Not surprisingly, though, given that a lot of the retail staff often were excited kids that worked a few hours per week to take advantage of the employee discount.

I can recall as a kid a GW staff member going 'Oh your buying some Skaven? Well, look what I accidentally left on the counter.' and dropping an early version of the new army book in front of me.

I was so excited, which is I guess why he did it. Making a kid smile like that is a pretty good feeling.

Niall78
30-10-2015, 08:23
Funny thread. What GW call secrets most companies would call opportunities to hype.

"Gotta keep our new plans and products secret from our customers!"

Meanwhile people were planing out their Star Wars Armada second wave purchases months before release as the hype machine built on fan forums, at conventions and on the FFG website.

saurus
30-10-2015, 11:27
What GW call secrets most companies would call opportunities to hype.

lol. This all day.

Gonefishing
30-10-2015, 21:11
lol. This all day.

Yep - And lets not forget Kickstarter.

Case in point - today at 16.00 GMT the Dropfleet commander kickstarter went live (with lots of info on what's coming, pictures, rules etc). At 20.00 GMT they stand at 130K. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander

That's the kind of interest that building some hype can generate.

Niall78
30-10-2015, 21:30
Yep - And lets not forget Kickstarter.

Case in point - today at 16.00 GMT the Dropfleet commander kickstarter went live (with lots of info on what's coming, pictures, rules etc). At 20.00 GMT they stand at 130K. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander

That's the kind of interest that building some hype can generate.

Thanks for the reminder. I just dropped a captains pledge. Might have to drop more for those beautiful map sets.

Gonefishing
30-10-2015, 23:38
Thanks for the reminder. I just dropped a captains pledge. Might have to drop more for those beautiful map sets.

I'm hanging in for the PHR stretch goal :)

Tokamak
31-10-2015, 00:03
Why does a company go through such great lengths to control what a community gets to see and still seemingly cares so little about the views of that same community?

Niall78
31-10-2015, 00:06
I'm hanging in for the PHR stretch goal :)

Just busted through the 150,000 mark - looks like we are getting another cruiser sprue.

Here's an interesting nugget from the kickstarter :

Each player uses a fleet of an agreed size, structured as described in the rulebook that comes with the game. This creates a balanced gaming system, but also allows players to enjoy scenarios where they might be outnumbered, have attackers and defenders, or fight famous battles from the Dropfleet Commander universe.

Looks like they aren't following down the AoS path of zero balancing mechanism.

Shakkara
31-10-2015, 12:27
Because employees are likely made to sign a non-disclosure agreement and leaking anything and getting caught means losing your job at best, and paying tens of thousands in damages at worst.

Why would you think there is almost no-one that risks such nastiness to tell random people on the internet, whom they don't personally know or care about, some juicy company secrets? They gain nothing from that, and risk everything.

Why do you think the true rumours we have are vague? Because if they were specific, then it would be VERY easy to trace back to particular persons. There aren't that many people that truly know what is going on more than a few months ahead, and if they tell someone else some details and those particular details end up on the internet a week later, it's extremely obvious who did it.

Niall78
31-10-2015, 12:42
Because employees are likely made to sign a non-disclosure agreement and leaking anything and getting caught means losing your job at best, and paying tens of thousands in damages at worst.

Why would you think there is almost no-one that risks such nastiness to tell random people on the internet, whom they don't personally know or care about, some juicy company secrets? They gain nothing from that, and risk everything.

Why do you think the true rumours we have are vague? Because if they were specific, then it would be VERY easy to trace back to particular persons. There aren't that many people that truly know what is going on more than a few months ahead, and if they tell someone else some details and those particular details end up on the internet a week later, it's extremely obvious who did it.

Who really cares? Most companies these days are building hype months in advance of releases. GW are threatening employees with sacking if news of new product leaks out to the public. The whole thing is so stupid on GWs part as to defy description.

NoobLord
31-10-2015, 14:46
They might have had trouble selling the Knights codex if people had known a replacement would be coming a year later. As it was there seemed to be few days' rumbling on the forums followed by the cash cows walking over to the milking shed.

O.G-Palmer
01-11-2015, 01:22
[/QUOTE]It has got a bit silly now though, with the loss of 'black boxes' to stores meaning that they struggle to get painted examples of new models on display in a reasonable time.[/QUOTE]



Those black boxes are back, well not exactly in a black box but still. Those HH pics came from a few of us who opened them and are currently building/painting ready for release.

Voss
01-11-2015, 20:12
They might have had trouble selling the Knights codex if people had known a replacement would be coming a year later. As it was there seemed to be few days' rumbling on the forums followed by the cash cows walking over to the milking shed.

Fun fact: after the release of Imperial Knights 2.0 (and the new box of the imperial knight), my FLGS was still required by GW to stock the old version of the imperial knight without the carapace weapons. :shifty:
They didn't bother to order the new version, because the old version wouldn't sell, and if it did, they'd have to reorder more of the old.

vlad78
03-11-2015, 11:29
Supposedly they like to keep things close to the vest to prevent third party companies from making their own cheaper versions and putting them out. But I thought that people buy GW miniatures because they want high quality models, so why would subpar third party creations be considered a threat to them? GW really does seem to me like they have a schizophrenic business plan.

Precisely, third party products are no longer subpar and often cheaper than GW products.
GW does not want to decrease prices, therefore they have used every tricks in the book to avoid direct competition since the IP defense line has failed.

The 2 years period needed by GW to design a product is very long, if they showed what they were preparing, competitors would have prepared better kits or at least much cheaper kits faster than them.
This is why GW is abandoning every generic range or not investing much in them, this is why secrecy has become paramount, this is why they are pushing big kits for whom the competition is still in its infancy, this is why GW is trying to change the aesthetic of their games so much with the one exception, space marines.

Imho warpath could be a major blow to GW as it is directly competing with 40k just like Kow was designed to appeal to wfb customers.

Cheeslord
03-11-2015, 14:06
Imho warpath could be a major blow to GW as it is directly competing with 40k just like Kow was designed to appeal to wfb customers.

I have not heard much news of Warpath being much of a hit (I was quite interested when it first came out, got the starter set, but we didn't find the games very satisfying and there was some kind of wierd screwup with the original (post-beta) rules)...

Mark.

MDSW
05-11-2015, 21:14
I have not heard much news of Warpath being much of a hit (I was quite interested when it first came out, got the starter set, but we didn't find the games very satisfying and there was some kind of wierd screwup with the original (post-beta) rules)...

Mark.

The new Wapath KS just ended and ended up funding quite few more full armies while also developing a very thoroughly beta-tested ruleset. The Warpath rules have had issues since inception and this KS with fleshing out and having new armies along with cleaning up the rules was eagerly anticipated.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/warpath-the-sci-fi-battle-game