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View Full Version : Problems with AOS/GW and the result in your area/life – people that dislike AO only



chrism
29-10-2015, 18:59
This thread is for people to freely get all their AOS gripes out into the open, without the point of their issues being White Knighted into petty arguments - as happens in all the other threads.

Due to well meaning parties (or possibly employees/owners of GW) genuine concerns are being lost amongst the arguments and I think it would be a right to have a safe space for people to whine as much as they want – and then discuss said issues.

It is important to the hobby as a whole for GW to understand the consequences of their actions. And I don't mean that as a threat. I'd personally never bought anything from another company - 1990 until I became disillusioned mid 8th with GW behaviour, prices, power creep etc. All the old arguments we used to have before AOS.

I bought one other game, then AOS dropped so I bought that and I played and was gutted. I was hopeful that AOS would be a fun tight little game that I could beer and prezel (actually I'm English – beer and beer). But I found it a soulless, shell of a game with awful non-rules that they don;t seem to want to improve upon. As a result I properly looked at the competition and I'm now heavily invested in three other systems, money that used to go to GW.

GW might not read the thread, and if they do they might not act on it but at least there will be a clear place where real issues can be discussed without the opposing ideology muddying the water.

I personally believe they do read these pages, just like any celeb who googles their own name. So lets highlight problems and tell them what the result was so they can see that they are not invincible and if they want to remain the big kid on the block then maybe it might be worth addressing some of issues.

The point being I want them to turn it around – I want the hobby as a whole to thrive and be competitive and for the games to get better and prices to relate to the worth of the goods rather than desires of the board. We would all win.

So with noble intentions and a genuine desire not to have the chat derailed, ladies and gentlemen have at it...

Katastrophe
29-10-2015, 19:08
I can smell the fire from miles away, forest fire headed here in

1

2


3

Drakkar du Chaos
29-10-2015, 19:33
I can smell the fire from miles away, forest fire headed here in

1

2


3

Not a forest fire but still...

221860

KariP
29-10-2015, 19:58
I started with 5th edition starter set with Bretonnia. I felt immedietly in love with the army book and the fantasy feeling from it and the stories and the depth from it. I enjoyed the 6th edition army book aswell and have fully painted 4000 pts Bretonnia army. I then played for 10 years with my army, waiting for new Bretonnia army book. Then they dropped the whole WHFB and gave us this warscrolls thingy and game with no depth and no feeling.
AoS killed this wonderful fantasy community we had in Iceland, yes even in a country of 300thousand people we had great community with many many players. I played with it on tournament this spring and won. Now everything is silent and people are trying to sell their armies desperately. This old feeling and old community is gone which is to me very sad.

After waiting this long and being loyal customer with my army I feel kind of betrayed.

Kieras
29-10-2015, 20:08
I started around magic supplement and herohammer with one skeleton horseman.Now I own nearly every possible army in fantasy. Not every mini painted - that would be impossible with the rake of stuff I have. Was giving gw all my disposable income till aos came out.THEY destroyed our gaming community. Since then it was Warzone, Bushido and a lot of x-wing.

chrism
29-10-2015, 22:48
I'm well in to Mantics games now. You compare the way they advertise and use social media to talk about their products, the way they generate their rules sets and conduct open testing, it is genuinely exciting to follow their games develop. There is a character to the company that reminds me of a young Games Workshop and a character that is sorely lacking in the current corporation. Which probably isn't surprising considering they and Warlord etc are comprised of ex GW staff/execs who have seen the Big Show, and appear to want to offer something different to the market.

Voss
29-10-2015, 23:36
Pretty much no effect in a sad sort of way. 7th killed Warhammer in most places I traveled, 8th didn't really bring it back, ET generated some brief excitement (before the :wtf: set in) and AoS assured everyone everywhere that GW was perfectly happy keeping it nailed into its coffin.

Happily, there are plenty of viable alternatives, so other than nostalgia going back to late 80s, I don't feel incredibly impact by the whole snafu. Which, since I'm feeling polite and kind at the moment, is the most positive descriptor I can attach to the whole debacle.

Kahadras
29-10-2015, 23:52
I'm not that fussed with GW anymore. I've been moving away from their products for quite a long time now due to the reasons that have been wheeled out time and again (price, poor rules, lack of support, lack of communication etc). The removal of Warhammer 8th ed was little more than the final nail in the coffin. My close group of friends have pretty much dropped GW as well. A few people in the local club still play 40K but that group has pretty much embraced the WAAC PTW meta. When AoS came out people had a go with it but it pretty much died out as nobody was really keen on sinking money into a gaming system that was average at best. I still have my Vampire Counts army but why play AoS when I can play KoW?

Agrimax
30-10-2015, 00:24
Personally I find AoS painful for quite a list of reasons

1) to hit/to wound being fixed. Why can (armour aside) a goblin cause damage to a dragon as easily as a snotling?
2) the awful attempt to get around the fact that people have legacy bases by measuring model to model not base to base.
3) being able to get 2 turns in a row. Broken concept however you look at it.
4) Random, nonsensical scenery effects. "Tactical depth" I suppose, but personally I find the concept of something like a hill being deadly (short of dubious exposition through narrative, that's inevitably jarring) ludicrous.
5) Sudden death
6) Summoning
7) The most important rule. They have the nerve at the end of a 4 page ruleset to describe AoS as detailed and wide ranging.
8) Shooting in combat
9) Gaining a benefit from winning a previous game, for no legitimate reason and purely on the basis of honesty.
10) Lack of a way to balance armies.

Now granted, for the most part you could houserule those things. Except I have no wish to do a games companies work for them, then fight to get agreement for said houserules with whomever I happen to be playing, who may wish to houserule things differently (with every validity for doing so, since by it's nature house ruling is personal opinion on what's better than the base rule). And if you release games you are a games company, whether you claim to be a model company or not, and should do a competent job of creating a complete game that shouldn't need a rewrite to make playable. Given the plethora of alternatives with better fluff and tighter rulesets there's precisely nothing to recommend AoS other than a very specific niche interest in a very specific type of setting. Fortunately my tastes are wide enough that I don't have to take that "something is better than nothing" approach.

Lordcypress
30-10-2015, 00:35
Are we allowed to comment if we haven't played AoS but read the rules, all the feed back on Warseer and watched reviews on Youtube?

ewar
30-10-2015, 00:55
I think it would be a right to have a safe space for people to whine as much as they want

Do you feel as though people have been holding back so far!? :confused:

Hmmm... not sure this is a good idea, I'm fairly sure we've seen the same opinions touted 10,000 times already.

Philhelm
30-10-2015, 03:03
It's not that AOS is such an awful game, but that it is a ridiculous replacement for Warhammer Fantasy. It reminds me of a slightly more complex version of Wizards of the Coast's D&D/Star Wars Miniatures skirmish games, except with ridiculously expensive models and a crappy setting.

Philhelm
30-10-2015, 03:05
Personally I find AoS painful for quite a list of reasons

1) to hit/to wound being fixed. Why can (armour aside) a goblin cause damage to a dragon as easily as a snotling?
2) the awful attempt to get around the fact that people have legacy bases by measuring model to model not base to base.
3) being able to get 2 turns in a row. Broken concept however you look at it.
4) Random, nonsensical scenery effects. "Tactical depth" I suppose, but personally I find the concept of something like a hill being deadly (short of dubious exposition through narrative, that's inevitably jarring) ludicrous.
5) Sudden death
6) Summoning
7) The most important rule. They have the nerve at the end of a 4 page ruleset to describe AoS as detailed and wide ranging.
8) Shooting in combat
9) Gaining a benefit from winning a previous game, for no legitimate reason and purely on the basis of honesty.
10) Lack of a way to balance armies.

Now granted, for the most part you could houserule those things. Except I have no wish to do a games companies work for them, then fight to get agreement for said houserules with whomever I happen to be playing, who may wish to houserule things differently (with every validity for doing so, since by it's nature house ruling is personal opinion on what's better than the base rule). And if you release games you are a games company, whether you claim to be a model company or not, and should do a competent job of creating a complete game that shouldn't need a rewrite to make playable. Given the plethora of alternatives with better fluff and tighter rulesets there's precisely nothing to recommend AoS other than a very specific niche interest in a very specific type of setting. Fortunately my tastes are wide enough that I don't have to take that "something is better than nothing" approach.

You should add having to potentially move the same 50-man unit three times when it charges (move, charge, pile-in).

SuperHappyTime
30-10-2015, 04:55
This thread is for people to freely get all their AOS gripes out into the open, without the point of their issues being White Knighted into petty arguments - as happens in all the other threads.

...

So with noble intentions and a genuine desire not to have the chat derailed, ladies and gentlemen have at it...

I'm an AoS supporter, but have things about it I don't like. Screw your opinion, I'm chiming in anyway.

The biggest issue I'm having with AoS is the people I'm around. None of them got into any of the previous versions of Fantasy, and they won't be getting into AoS either. All of them are 40K players, so I'm drawn to the conclusion that 40K players just aren't into Fantasy.

Voss
30-10-2015, 05:30
It's not that AOS is such an awful game, but that it is a ridiculous replacement for Warhammer Fantasy. It reminds me of a slightly more complex version of Wizards of the Coast's D&D/Star Wars Miniatures skirmish games, except with ridiculously expensive models and a crappy setting.

Sadly, it is far less complex than those rules (which were a simplified version of 3.5 d&d). For starters there were coherent cover and terrain rules, correlations between models and their stats, as well as little things like point values and army building.

AngryAngel
30-10-2015, 05:36
I'm an AoS supporter, but have things about it I don't like. Screw your opinion, I'm chiming in anyway.

The biggest issue I'm having with AoS is the people I'm around. None of them got into any of the previous versions of Fantasy, and they won't be getting into AoS either. All of them are 40K players, so I'm drawn to the conclusion that 40K players just aren't into Fantasy.

So, your big issue with AoS is that 40k players don't like fantasy ? That sounds awful !!!!

I guess all the other issues can pale by comparison to such wickedness.

BasetheRuin
30-10-2015, 06:08
This thread is for people to freely get all their AOS gripes out into the open, without the point of their issues being White Knighted into petty arguments - as happens in all the other threads.

Due to well meaning parties (or possibly employees/owners of GW) genuine concerns are being lost amongst the arguments and I think it would be a right to have a safe space for people to whine as much as they want – and then discuss said issues.

We need a safe place do discuss anti-Age of Sigmar feelings? It might have escaped you, but these days Warseer is practically MADE of AoS-complaints.

jet_palero
30-10-2015, 06:45
AoS put me through the five stages, or as close as you could come with a hobby.

Denial: During the rumor mongering. I couldn't believe they'd do this.
Anger: I was angry for quite a while that they had done this.
Bargaining: I tried to find a way to like AoS and failed.
Depression: Yeah, I was bummed for a bit.

But I've made it to acceptance. mostly. Still a little sad the old world is gone, but oh well.

chrism
30-10-2015, 06:50
We need a safe place do discuss anti-Age of Sigmar feelings? It might have escaped you, but these days Warseer is practically MADE of AoS-complaints.

Its not made of AOS complaints, it's made of arguments about AOS complaints - every serious point becomes unreadable. Why not have a place for people to say/debate the negative stuff so the other threads can be left to their topics. Also this part of Warseer is still a Warhammer forum, they killed Warhammer, people are going to want to complain.

Denny
30-10-2015, 06:59
My concern is that there isn't a safe thread in Warseer for people who don't have strong feelings either way about AoS.

Maybe I should start one? I could post things like:

AoS is made of plastic, except the box which is card.
It is sold for money.
Also it contains some dice.

75hastings69
30-10-2015, 07:34
My main gripes with AoS.

1/ The setting. It is beyond poor, devoid of any of the detail that made the old world feel alive. Also undying good guys vs uneding bad guys (i.e. marines respawn, numbers of daemons are infinite as they also never truly die), where is the peril? what is at stake? nothing.... it is the most pointless "war for wars sake". Who are we rooting for here? who do we kind of asociate ourselves with - unnamed faceless daemon or unnamed faceless marine?

2/ The writing/fluff. Is the only thing worse than the setting. I do not need to go into much detail here. Anyone who has ready the Gates of Azyr knows what I mean. The naming of things has gotten worse than it was during the end of WFB, the adding of sigmar onto everything deosnt make a rich backdrop, it just looks like you have no imagination, the current fluff suffers so badly because of this.

3/ Sigmarines. Because SM sell for 40k it does not mean dropping marines into a fantasy setting = increased sales, especially when they models all look the same and are devoid of any personality.

I could go on, but these 3 main points are enough for me to not want anything to do with it.

williamsond
30-10-2015, 07:35
I like this idea to be honest I'm sick of AOS threads devolving as soon as you say anything negative about it. I've played warhammer for 26 years and was very disapointed they took the opportunity to revamp WFB and wasted it on the streaming dog **** that is age of sigmar.

Personally I dislike:

cost- its suposed to be an entry game but some how they managed to up the price of a figure to a rediculus level just because you dont need as may figures.

Rules- every game ends the same with a scrum in the middle of the board where every one keeps rolling the same dice adnausium. there is no tactical depth this has been replaced by buff sinergy. I want to flank and manover on the battle feild. there's weird stuff that really bugs me like "if the hit and wound rolls are always the same why do I need two of them?" or measure from any point on the model the base is only there to stand up the model.

points- why remove them and try to replace it with weird sudden death condition. haveing no points works in stuff like historicals because you have historical reference for forces and you dont have dudes on dragons or magic users. even if theyy had produced a SAGA like points system that world have worked better.

The new faction- the stupid sigmarines, I dont like the asthetic and you can tell the whole idea was how can we have space marines in warhammer, every one likes spacemarines and the sell really well, it just smells of cash grab.

It's killed fantasy battle in alot of clubs - regardless of what people say, ion most areas this killed off the fantasy battle groups as people became split on what to play, if they liked AoS if they hated it, would they play 9th age etc... about the only silver lining is KoW has had a massive up surge in popularity.

Online rules - great idea but because they tested it with AoS and lets face it it's bombing they will probably blame free rules as the big factor and not do it again destroying future potential free rules.

Fracturing the comunity - it's worse than the edition wars in D&D. With people entrenched on either side of the debate.

Fluff - they destroyed 30 years of rich back ground that had eveolved naturaly and organically over time and replaced it with dross and factions with stupid names to protect their IP.

the whole thing just feels like its a cash grab of a shell of a game designed by a commity of marketing and sales people, it has no soul and isn't a war game it's a lose set of excuses to push toys around one step up form cross bows and catapults.

75hastings69
30-10-2015, 07:38
Crossbows & Catapults is a better game than AoS :D

What I DO like about AoS is that it has turned so many people off GW products that smaller companies and games that were largely unheard of are getting traction, the variety of different games and indead models being collected now just at my local club is unprecidented, and that is thanks to AoS, so thankyou GW for making the "hobby" better by providing such a shoddy product AND treating your customer base like ******, we all win, you lose.

Niall78
30-10-2015, 07:57
No problems in my area. Our club tested AoS and found it to be a shallow broken game unplayable without massive comp and missing even the most basic balancing system. So we tested Kings of War second edition and moved to that system for our fantasy needs. We haven't looked back.

No major dramas. New players to our club will now be exposed to KoW instead of WFB. There are now no GW games played within our club. We effectively lost nothing - apart from those of us who had a love for the fluff of WFB. Game wise we now play a much better fantasy system than either WFB or AoS. Price of entry is now much cheaper for new guys as well so that should help us grow the fantasy side of the club.

BeardMonk
30-10-2015, 09:24
Much like a few others here, AoS hasn’t really affected our club as nobody was playing WHF since End Time. There is a small but dedicated 40K crew who have beautifully painted models and always seem to be having a good time so, good on them.

After returning to wargaimg in adulthood I had no ties to any particular system and was able to select a game I felt was right for me. I settled on WM/H and later picked up Malifaux as a sideline. These are some of the reasons.

1) Rules and the game. WM/H rules are very very tight. It either is or it isn’t. The wording is specific and exact. This is WM/H biggest strength. The game itself is very very good. Steep learning curve however but it then become incumbent on experienced players to teach the new players in a supportive way, allowing takebacks, pointing out options before a player moves and making the learning experience pleasant rather than just getting smashed. Malifaux is also a very clean ruleset, is quick to pick up. In short, without a good game, there is not point me collecting and painting models

2) Customer and community support. This is a huge thing for WM/H and to a good extent Wyrd. Customers are advised well in advanced of release what is coming. There are official apps which support the game and make playing a much easier experience (assuming you have a table/smartphone). New models etc are extensively play tested and any issues after release are FAQ’ed quickly. Also, PP and Wyrd actively support the competitive scene by either running or being involved with national and international tournaments and WTC’s. Often these are streamed with good live commentary, uploaded to youtube later.

3) Target audience. I strongly believe that WM/H is aimed at adults rather than young people. This affects the games overall feel. Yes we are still moving toy soldiers about, but the game requires a much deeper level of tactical play and thinking that other games like 40K. I need more than shuffling 6 inches and shouting “pew pew”. People who have had demo games have commented on this as well.

4) Cost. While WM/H is probably just as expensive as any GW game, I think you get more for you money in game terms. PP charge £30-£35 for a unit of 10-15 warrior models and most of their box sets now include weapon and unit attachments which provide in game affects and abilities. Many jack kits are now in plastic and contain the parts to make several jacks based of the same chassis costing about £20. Large models like colossal, gargantuams and battle engines cost between £50 and £80. However, unlike many GW games, you don’t need these large models to be competitive. You need the right caster and list to run one or two of these large models and then they can be at a disadvantage in certain competition scenarios of other forces. It’s all in balance. My battle engine is my “centrepiece”. It’s not my mainstay. One thing I can say is that with the ongoing switch from metal miniatures to plastic kits, the cost of MW/H units is actually decreasing by a small amount.

5) Model quality and “looks”. In terms of model quality, some of the old PP miniatures were/are shoddy compared to GW. However the new revamps and plastic kits have fix that although there are still a few very old kits hanging around (Kayazy Assassins im looking at you). But if you take my battle engine and place it next to a similar large model form GW like a Imperial Knight, then the quality of the models are on a level field IMO. What matters here is the looks of the model. I love the dark steampunk look of warmachine and the madness of the hordes beasts. It works for me. These new Fantasy Space Marines? No thanks, not my cup of tea.

6) Something different that works. This is the main reason I picked up Malifaux as a sideline. The setting, the models and the game mechanic of using cards rather than dice and being able to “cheat” in cards from your hand to affect an event or interaction is fresh. Also, games only need about 4-8 models so you don have to paint 30+ chaps whenever you get something new. And the models are beautiful.

Drakkar du Chaos
30-10-2015, 09:49
Crossbows & Catapults is a better game than AoS :D

What I DO like about AoS is that it has turned so many people off GW products that smaller companies and games that were largely unheard of are getting traction, the variety of different games and indead models being collected now just at my local club is unprecidented, and that is thanks to AoS, so thankyou GW for making the "hobby" better by providing such a shoddy product AND treating your customer base like ******, we all win, you lose.

I know its sarcastic but i have a hard time to see where we can possibly win.
Yesterday i bought 200€ of GW miniatures because i need to finish my WoC army but the fact is i lost my motivation for the hobby since AoS release... i hope its temporary.

Sirius2.0
30-10-2015, 11:10
All in all? Pretty furious with GW but some good has come out of it.

Warhammer fantasy was my favourite hobby (alongside 40k) for the lore, the minis and the games. The games have been ruined, the lore abandoned and its future put in jeopardy.
I still get to play the game rarely when I get some time with my wife, but I haven't been to any local clubs in a while so I don't know what the gaming scene is like in the northeast uk.

I still get to finish all my Warhammer projects, which I will love to do, however I'm planning on tailoring them more towards kow, and allowing them to proxy each system.

On the 40k front I'm out too. I will finish up my current projects, and maybe pick up another army on eBay if I ever see one cheap enough (necrons, tau, or kroot to proxy as eldar) but that will be from a hobby standpoint. I doubt I'll play 40k again more than once a year... The rules are just headed into crazy land.

Namely as others have pointed out, some good has come; I have now invested heavily into infinity, hordes, and soon I will invest in Kings of war, X wing, warmachine and others. I regularly spent 50-100 a month on games workshop or hobby supplies, which games workshop will never see again. Drop in the ocean I know, but I can imagine a not-too-insignificant number of people are in the same boat.

I have to say I do have one moral conundrum. As much as I want to punish games workshop with my wallet, I am really, really liking the look of those new Horus heresy boxed sets... but that is just the hobbyist in me talking (darn those black library books for sinking their hooks in).

Sirius2.0
30-10-2015, 11:31
My main gripes with AoS.

1/ The setting. It is beyond poor, devoid of any of the detail that made the old world feel alive. Also undying good guys vs uneding bad guys (i.e. marines respawn, numbers of daemons are infinite as they also never truly die), where is the peril? what is at stake? nothing.... it is the most pointless "war for wars sake". Who are we rooting for here? who do we kind of asociate ourselves with - unnamed faceless daemon or unnamed faceless marine?

3/ Sigmarines. Because SM sell for 40k it does not mean dropping marines into a fantasy setting = increased sales, especially when they models all look the same and are devoid of any personality.


This. More point one than point three, but this.
Pulling out a few ideas from my bottom that would have been cooler...

Stormcasts being daemons from a God of law, clashing with chaos at every opportunity and either ignoring or oppressing the good/evil races. Lawful neutral tyrants basically.

Martyred souls from the heroes dead in the end times, sigmar died to allow their return, and in doing so spread his power to them turning eacH into a mini Karl franz ascendant. Except y'know, human, compassionate, independent etc. Not faceless legion of immortal goons.

Daemons for a chaos God of hope (possibly sigmar?)
Warp fuels off emotions, what if the hope and determination in the face of chaos allowed sigmar to draw upon that reserve and ascend further into godhood, becoming a full on warp God, but for hope against all the war, change, desire and inevitability. Reminds me of a strip from the sandman graphic novels. Hope for something better is just a fundamental concept and a driving force for the common person that to take it out of the setting leaves it all a bit... Blah.

Anyway, just a few ramblings from my couch. Not saying they are the best examples or anything, but I dare say a large chunk of the community could come up with a better backstory than GW have churned out.

Geep
30-10-2015, 11:41
I think the saddest thing about AoS is that it didn't actually surprise me.

I loved 6th/7th edition (7th had obvious issues, but the core rules were some of the best, IMO)- the move to 8th showed a willingness to throw out a lot of the skills and tactical nuances in favour of random junk (I hated the terrain rules especially). Many army books also lost character in 8th- and even though there may have been reasons, with no designers notes it was hard to follow the 'why' of things. As a specific example there- I loved the 6th ed Wood Elf book, and the designer described the idea very well- archery was supposed to be strong, but not a boring static gunline- you had to use the movement phase just like any other army. The 8th edition book killed that utterly- if you wanted to go archer-heavy then you'd be static- unless you took the arrow type that ignored movement penalty, but that also ignored range penalty, so why would you bother getting close to the enemy?
AoS is just another step (well, a big leap really) into being completely out of touch with good game design.

I also play(ed) 40k, and its rules have been on a steep decline for quite a while now. It still has points and army selection, but both are extremely loose. The game focus has clearly changed to the big monsters- infantry are usually useless objective grabbers, who may as well be armed with pompoms and kazoos to cheer on the other stuff. Random effects dominate this game too, with stupid terrain and silly objectives ('capture that bomb!' being a favourite...).
Some people worry they'll AoSify 40k- to me it's pretty much there already.

GW haemorrhaged it's talent years ago now. Fortunately, that talent now works at other companies making great games. None of those will ever replace Fantasy and the Old World for me though- I fully intend to play older editions, Epic, Warmaster, BFG and other decent games so long as I can coerce others into playing me!


Stormcasts being daemons from a God of law, clashing with chaos at every opportunity and either ignoring or oppressing the good/evil races. Lawful neutral tyrants basically.
This would have been awesome! I doubt anyone left at GW actually remembers there used to be Gods of Law. The aesthetic should have been different though- Stormcasts just look awful.

Buddy Bear
30-10-2015, 11:45
I was very angry with GW at first, and still am, but as with others above the massive disappointment with AOS has led to some good things. I now own the following:

X-WING
- Original Starter Set
- New Starter Set
- Millennium Falcon
- Slave-1

ARMADA
- Starter Set

STAR WARS: IMPERIAL ASSAULT
- Core Box
- Boba Fett
- R2-D2 & C-3P0

KINGS OF WAR
- Over 2,000 points of Undead
- Over 5,000 points of Kingdoms of Men/League of Rhordia (my old Empire army)

WARMACHINE
- Over 50 points of Menoth
- 35 points of Cygnar
- 20 points of Khador

And you know what? These are all really great games. I'd say that some of them are better than Warhammer Fantasy. So while I'm still very sore about what was done to a beloved setting, I suppose I should thank GW for driving me out of Warhammer and making it financially possible for me to consider other games.

Katastrophe
30-10-2015, 11:48
It's not that AOS is such an awful game...

Yes actually it is.

Holier Than Thou
30-10-2015, 12:27
I was very angry with GW at first, and still am, but as with others above the massive disappointment with AOS has led to some good things. I now own the following:

X-WING
- Original Starter Set
- New Starter Set
- Millennium Falcon
- Slave-1

ARMADA
- Starter Set

STAR WARS: IMPERIAL ASSAULT
- Core Box
- Boba Fett
- R2-D2 & C-3P0

And are those starter sets actually starter sets, that are actually designed to be sold and not just sit on shelves? ;)

Teurastaja
30-10-2015, 12:28
For me AoS is exact opposite of what I'm looking for in a wargame. I deeply miss Old World. GW somehow managed to rob me of my fun I had with wargaming which I find really odd. I'm applying Frostgrave therapy - it looks simple, entertaining and doesn't require me to sell my kidney.

Niall78
30-10-2015, 12:34
And are those starter sets actually starter sets, that are actually designed to be sold and not just sit on shelves? ;)

According to some here you've made a bad mistake. Even though GW market the AoS as a starter set it isn't actually a starter set. So when you see 'Warhammer : AoS Starter Set' on the GW website just be aware that isn't actually what it is. That's why nobody is buying it supposedly.

On the plus side sales of dust polish are going up everywhere the non-stater set is not being sold.

Buddy Bear
30-10-2015, 12:36
Yep, the purpose of a starter set isn't to be purchased and played. The purpose of a starter set is to sit on store shelves and collect dust, reminding people that the game exists, until a 2nd edition comes out. So ideas that starter sets should "sell" and "be played with" is just crazy talk, apparently.

Katastrophe
30-10-2015, 12:39
Yep, the purpose of a starter set isn't to be purchased and played. The purpose of a starter set is to sit on store shelves and collect dust, reminding people that the game exists, until a 2nd edition comes out. So ideas that starter sets should "sell" and "be played with" is just crazy talk, apparently.

Same for books, those are supposed to sit on shelves as well. Since they aren't needed, GW invested resources in making them pretty hardbacks to decorate store shelving. Not for people to actually purchase.

Buddy Bear
30-10-2015, 12:40
Same for books, those are supposed to sit on shelves as well. Since they aren't needed, GW invested resources in making them pretty hardbacks to decorate store shelving. Not for people to actually purchase.

Those limited editions are only available through the webstore, so clearly GW made 5,000 of them just to decorate their own warehouses, and not because they wanted them to be sold or anything. "Selling them", what a ridiculous thought!

Malagor
30-10-2015, 12:49
I got the Star Wars Armada starter set a few weeks ago. Great rules and great value.
And as I said before, AoS is pretty much nonexistant here now.
No one is playing it, no one is asking for opponents for it on our facebook page. If there are people playing it in my city then they are doing it at home.
Meanwhile at our game store, games people play are 8e and 40k and the occasional Warmahordes and Infinity and Malifaux.

Holier Than Thou
30-10-2015, 13:08
According to some here you've made a bad mistake. Even though GW market the AoS as a starter set it isn't actually a starter set. So when you see 'Warhammer : AoS Starter Set' on the GW website just be aware that isn't actually what it is. That's why nobody is buying it supposedly.

On the plus side sales of dust polish are going up everywhere the non-stater set is not being sold.

Would the dust polish fit in an official Age of Sigmar dice shaker? Then you could have somewhere to store the polish right next to the books and starter sets.

Niall78
30-10-2015, 13:18
Would the dust polish fit in an official Age of Sigmar dice shaker?

No. Dice hardly fit into the official Age of Sigmar dice shaker.


Then you could have somewhere to store the polish right next to the books and starter sets.

Dust polish needs to be stored safely. Keep it with your gold spray paint.

Agrimax
30-10-2015, 13:30
Same for books, those are supposed to sit on shelves as well. Since they aren't needed, GW invested resources in making them pretty hardbacks to decorate store shelving. Not for people to actually purchase.

To be fair, I can at least see why people wouldn't bother with books in the specific case of AoS. 4 pages is easy to print out and manage if you want a hard copy. The reason many games with free rules will still have people buying the books is the volume of them makes it impractical to print them out, keep the pages in the right order and all the rest of it, so for those that don't like reading off a tablet/laptop while they play, a book is still a good option.

Having said that of course, the books are where are the fluff is. Doesn't say a lot that a supposed narrative game (self-defined as such by players and not the manufacturer as far as I've seen, to justify the mess) doesn't actually seem to revolve around people scouring the fluff for good stories to tell...

Zywus
31-10-2015, 02:27
What I DO like about AoS is that it has turned so many people off GW products that smaller companies and games that were largely unheard of are getting traction, the variety of different games and indead models being collected now just at my local club is unprecidented, and that is thanks to AoS, so thankyou GW for making the "hobby" better by providing such a shoddy product AND treating your customer base like ******, we all win, you lose.
This is a pretty big point I think, at least long-term.

While WHFB was gradually losing people to other systems, there were so many hanging on out of habit, myself included. By nuking their Fantasy product so thoroughly and drastically GW created a large exodus of players finally taking a step they had mentally prepared for years. Rather then having them slowly fade away they now leave at the same time. Having that momentum gives the replacements a push they could never have crated themselves no matter how superior their game system.

9th age wouldn't have had a chance of setting a decent following a few years ago, even if more or less everyone would agree that it was a superior game system. While I think and hope KoW will eventually take the undisputed place of nr1 fantasy battle game 9th age will probably be the most balanced and enjoyable Warhammer edition ever (or at least the best on this side of the millennium)

Ayin
31-10-2015, 06:18
What I DO like about AoS is that it has turned so many people off GW products that smaller companies and games that were largely unheard of are getting traction, the variety of different games and indead models being collected now just at my local club is unprecidented, and that is thanks to AoS, so thankyou GW for making the "hobby" better by providing such a shoddy product AND treating your customer base like ******, we all win, you lose.

It definitely gave the last of the people I grew up with gaming the push they needed to abandon GW and move wholly into several other game systems, from X-Wing to fully embracing Warmachine/Hordes and others. Although that's good for those companies, and is actually pretty good for the gaming scene over all, it's really left me sad.

Losing Command
31-10-2015, 07:13
Since AoS happened, the number of people who played any GW game has gone down drastically here ... it now regularly happens that there is no one that wants to play 40k on the weekly game evening. My hobby has been reduced too getting everything painted once again - I've already experienced something very similar when the excitement about Lotr died down.

The alternative minature wargames that are gaining traction over here are, alas, not games that interest me any way rule - or model wise (no one is playing KoW sadly) so once the last straggelers finally give up entirely on 40k then that's gonna be the end of minature wargaming for me.

MLP
31-10-2015, 08:02
My hobby has been reduced too getting everything painted once again

Isn't that what the hobby is mostly about?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holier Than Thou
31-10-2015, 09:09
Isn't that what the hobby is mostly about?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not for everyone.

Drakkar du Chaos
31-10-2015, 10:19
The new AoS miniatures are amazing.

221893

24€ for that old crap. What a joke.

Niall78
31-10-2015, 10:22
The new AoS miniatures are amazing.

221893

24€ for that old crap. What a joke.

The bent spears look amazing for sure.

Holier Than Thou
31-10-2015, 10:46
The new AoS miniatures are amazing.

221893

24€ for that old crap. What a joke.

That bigger model looks awful.

Malagor
31-10-2015, 10:57
Oh for crying out loud, celestite clubs, celestite spears and stardrake shields *facepalms*

Drakkar du Chaos
31-10-2015, 11:06
That bigger model looks awful.

Yeah GW seem to think its perfectly normal in 2015 to repack something 20 years old. If they dont know how to design salamanders anymore they should call Mierce :

http://mierce-miniatures.com/projects/ksdma/stretch_goal_035750_iskarnos_large.jpg

Drakkar du Chaos
31-10-2015, 11:13
Oh for crying out loud, celestite clubs, celestite spears and stardrake shields *facepalms*


This multi-part plastic kit contains enough components to assemble twenty Saurus Warriors, clutching celestite clubs or celestite spears. Whichever weapon is chosen, they also wield stardrake shields. One miniature can be assembled as an Alpha Talon, and one miniature can carry a stardrake icon,afefecting nearby enemy units negatively. Yet another miniature can carry wardrums, and there are many variations in head and shield options - your Saurus Warriors will be as unique as you wish! Supplied with twenty Citadel 32mm Round bases.

Now i have a question : is Celestite better than Sigmarite ?

Malagor
31-10-2015, 11:23
It's just as stupid IMO.
And that spelling error is nice.

Arkon
31-10-2015, 11:33
Now i have a question : is Celestite better than Sigmarite ?

Perhaps in the dire times to come they will soon learn to fuse theit stuff to CELMARITE-gear with the power of friendship?

Zywus
31-10-2015, 11:48
I'm dissapointed they are still called Saurus-warriors. Such an old boring name.

They should have named them something cool like Reptilicus Drake-biters or Poikilothermican bloodfreezers

Niall78
31-10-2015, 11:51
I'm dissapointed they are still called Saurus-warriors. Such an old boring name.

They should have named them something cool like Reptilicus Drake-biters or Poikilothermican bloodfreezers

Type 'Seraphon' into Google and head over to images.

Khaines Wrath
31-10-2015, 11:56
Type 'Seraphon' into Google and head over to images.

What the hell did I just see?!

Niall78
31-10-2015, 12:00
What the hell did I just see?!

You just saw a GW fact checking FUBAR. ;)

Deadhorse
31-10-2015, 12:26
Waaait. Is seraphon some kind of weird animated-furry-bondage-tickle porn?

Now I'm confused. I started reading this thread being unable to understand how anyone could take the repackaged ugly salamander release seriously.
But who gets off to the original 'Seraphon' is a bigger mystery now, I think.

Soundwave
31-10-2015, 12:34
Oh dear the plot "thins". Did I just see Pikachu being "tortured" with a blow torch.
More proof that all that is left at G.W h.q is just Kirby and his loyal team of flying monkeys.

Niall78
31-10-2015, 12:42
Oh dear the plot "thins". Did I just see Pikachu being "tortured" with a blow torch.
More proof that all that is left at G.W h.q is just Kirby and his loyal team of flying monkeys.

It was beyond the level of their competence to type their new GW legal department approved names into a few search engines.

Malagor
31-10-2015, 12:42
It really begs the question tho.
Are they that incompetent that they didn't do a simple google search on that name before giving it the all clear or is there a seraphon lover among the writing team that wanted to give it a nod ?

Holier Than Thou
31-10-2015, 12:46
Type 'Seraphon' into Google and head over to images.

Aaaaarrrrrgghhhhhh!!!! MY EYES!!!!!!!THEY'RE BLEEDING!!!

Deadhorse
31-10-2015, 12:49
#1 Rule of Internet: What is seen cannot be unseen.

Ben
31-10-2015, 13:24
Waaait. Is seraphon some kind of weird animated-furry-bondage-tickle porn?

Now I'm confused. I started reading this thread being unable to understand how anyone could take the repackaged ugly salamander release seriously.
But who gets off to the original 'Seraphon' is a bigger mystery now, I think.

It's one of those lose/lose things.

One thing I do is google image search things for references for painting projects. I don't think I'm alone in that.

A lot of people are in for a horrible surprise.

75hastings69
31-10-2015, 13:37
Hahahahaha well played GW, well played. Just when I thought you couldn't do anything more stupid...

Zywus
31-10-2015, 13:41
Type 'Seraphon' into Google and head over to images.
I already fell into that trap yesterday, in a News and Rumors thread. I wont seek out those images again if I can help it:p

Niall78
31-10-2015, 13:46
I already fell into that trap yesterday, in a News and Rumors thread. I wont seek out those images again if I can help it:p

Poster Mozzamanx gets full credit for the discovery! It's not an honour I want! :eek:

Buddy Bear
31-10-2015, 13:47
From the sound of it, I think I'll avoid Googling Seraphon in the future...

75hastings69
31-10-2015, 13:50
celestite spears and stardrake shields.....

Is this real? Surely Sigmar's friend the never ending story dragon whatshisname won't be happy to find out Sigmar's new old friends are using the body parts of his kin to make shields, maybe they forgot that part of the fluff already as it is so complex?

Does no one in GW posses an imagination anymore?

Deadhorse
31-10-2015, 13:57
Are we sure this is not some huge practical joke?

Where are you going Timmy?
Uh, hi Mom, I'm just taking my Seraphon to the Two girls world cup tournament...

narradisall
31-10-2015, 14:16
God those are awfull. I thought people were trolling.

Also thanks for making me google that word. Time to clear the browser history!

Ben
31-10-2015, 16:04
God those are awfull. I thought people were trolling.

Also thanks for making me google that word. Time to clear the browser history!

Too late, you're on a register now.

1234User
31-10-2015, 16:23
My main problem with AoS is that it isn't rank, file, flanks centered in its game play. Also I want to play and meet a mixed army of core, elite, heroes, etc, not just elite.

NoobLord
31-10-2015, 16:29
Thanks for the warnings about not being able to un-see something once seen. I have ordered my fingers not to type in that search and so far they have obeyed.

Good job they aren't armed with 'strap-on felchers' or some such :eek:

Deadhorse
31-10-2015, 16:35
I'd say AoS is not an entirely negative experience for me, it was all I needed to liberate myself from GW and start truly enjoying other games.

What I particularly don't like about it is that it has dealt a crippling blow to the local gaming community, scattering it to the winds. Also, while the AoS rules stink, that could have been fixed in a future edition. Unfortunately, the damage they did to the fluff is horrible. Replacing the old world with something that is basically porn-grade narrative is heinous.

75hastings69
31-10-2015, 17:07
Now I have visions of Sigmar popping round to fix a neighbours sink/clean a neighbours pool etc. and to be fair it's still a better story than any written so far about AoS :D

shelfunit.
31-10-2015, 17:30
Seraphon + google search = cannot un-see. GW research team does it again. I guess a lot of Furry sites will be getting an unexpected hit bonus, followed by GW getting a few less return visits.

Griefbringer
31-10-2015, 21:40
Speaking of unfortunately chosen terms in AoS, don't forget Sigmarite. By coincidence this happens to be a trade name used by PPG Protective & Marine Coatings for a range of paints...

At least they haven't tried naming any of the new figures as Zardoz - though that might have gone surprisingly well with the Bloodreavers.

Niall78
31-10-2015, 21:54
Speaking of unfortunately chosen terms in AoS, don't forget Sigmarite. By coincidence this happens to be a trade name used by PPG Protective & Marine Coatings for a range of paints.

Do they do gold I wonder?

Bloodknight
31-10-2015, 21:54
By coincidence this happens to be a trade name used by PPG Protective & Marine Coatings for a range of paints...


Since that is entirely unrelated to fantasy or plastic men, I don't see the possible conflict there.

Griefbringer
31-10-2015, 22:10
Since that is entirely unrelated to fantasy or plastic men, I don't see the possible conflict there.

But GW sells a range of paints. So far they have not tried to use the term Sigmarite in the name of any of their paints, but should they ever happen to do so, their trademark lawyers might have some reason for alarm...

Sirius2.0
31-10-2015, 22:18
This seraphon issue has tickled me more than it rightfully should. What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall at GW design department when the first angry complaints trickle in...

I do wonder how many complaints they will get, and how they will handle them. As a previous poster has mentioned it is not uncommon to image search for projects... There will be many a traumatised child and many an unhappy parent.

Holier Than Thou
31-10-2015, 22:19
But GW sells a range of paints. So far they have not tried to use the term Sigmarite in the name of any of their paints, but should they ever happen to do so, their trademark lawyers might have some reason for alarm...

And going by their recent lack of imagination there's a good chance they will use it for a paint name. Or have they renamed it pahyaint yet?

Denny
01-11-2015, 05:35
Are they that incompetent that they didn't do a simple google search on that name before giving it the all clear or is there a seraphon lover among the writing team that wanted to give it a nod ?

In fairness this is not just a GW issue.

WWE recently had a team of three female Wrestlers they dubbed the submission sorority (because all three women had submission finishing moves).

Do not Google 'submission sorority' from a work PC (especially videos)

The worst thing was one of the wrestlers even told WWE the name was a really bad idea. I think big companies just haven't gotten used to the idea of checking the net.

Berik
01-11-2015, 08:51
So if I understand it correctly, Seraphon are basically new Daemons of Slaneesh army:evilgrin:

Deadhorse
01-11-2015, 09:12
But where's the Dark Prince?
Oh, he's put on a furry Slann costume and found out that the Lizardmen, while they do not have sex as such, really do enjoy being bound and tickled.

Whirlwind
01-11-2015, 09:19
Oh, he's put on a furry Slann costume and found out that the Lizardmen, while they do not have sex as such, really do enjoy being bound and tickled.

This probably explains why the skink characters have a profusion of feathers on them...

2DSick
01-11-2015, 09:48
Dear God...

It's bad enough that they ripped off their new Sigmarine army from mantic's basilean, war in heaven plot...

Now they're ripping off names from furry porn and industrial paint producers...

Hahahahahahahaha this a priceless XD

Finnigan2004
01-11-2015, 12:46
Dear God...
It's bad enough that they ripped off their new Sigmarine army from mantic's basilean, war in heaven plot...

GW should have it's copyright lawyers can shut down Mantic over this. Oh, wait...

75hastings69
01-11-2015, 13:36
Also GWs new "rattlebones" far from being their unique IP, is already used in Super Dungeon Explore as the name for their skeletons.

2DSick
01-11-2015, 14:45
For a company that's pumped so much effort into protecting their pig-latin IP with extreme prejudice, I'm surprised at these slip-ups.

Vladyhell
01-11-2015, 15:22
Also GWs new "rattlebones" far from being their unique IP, is already used in Super Dungeon Explore as the name for their skeletons.

The skeletons are deathrattle not rattlebones if thats what your refering too.

logan054
01-11-2015, 19:09
I know its sarcastic but i have a hard time to see where we can possibly win.
Yesterday i bought 200€ of GW miniatures because i need to finish my WoC army but the fact is i lost my motivation for the hobby since AoS release... i hope its temporary.
For the first time ever I still have models stoll in the box on the spures. I get the whole losing motivation part.

I did want to finish my Warriors army but I really can't be bothered now.

Thankfully swtor has kept me a little busy.

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75hastings69
02-11-2015, 05:01
The skeletons are deathrattle not rattlebones if thats what your refering too.

Indeed my mistake. Deathrattle is actually a better name than Rattlebones, although Rattlebones does fit the SDE world better.

Kyriakin
02-11-2015, 05:35
Dear God...

It's bad enough that they ripped off their new Sigmarine army from mantic's basilean, war in heaven plot...

Now they're ripping off names from furry porn and industrial paint producers...

Hahahahahahahaha this a priceless XD
My little birdie told me that GW are soon going to repackage the skellies as "raging boners".

jtrowell
02-11-2015, 08:09
Are we sure this is not some huge practical joke?

Where are you going Timmy?
Uh, hi Mom, I'm just taking my Seraphon to the Two girls world cup tournament...

Ouch, I can imagine the mom then doing a google of "Seraphon" and "Two girls + cup", should be fairly fun to watch ... :angel:

jtrowell
02-11-2015, 08:22
Someone should contact this Seraphon guy doing all those tickle bondage furry pictures (that are better referenced than Malekith old Dragon or the new Seraphon army book).

I think that his work would be perfect for some saurus and skinks, and it would give AoS and GW some well needed exposure, surely they would appreciate the effort ? :angel:

Denny
02-11-2015, 12:35
I think that his work would be perfect for some saurus and skinks, and it would give AoS and GW some well needed exposure, surely they would appreciate the effort ? :angel:

Cross-promotion. Its a win/win.

rmeister0
02-11-2015, 12:37
My little birdie told me that GW are soon going to repackage the skellies as "raging boners".

Somebody with more artistic skill than I have needs to photoshop that box now.

Voss
03-11-2015, 02:12
Well, as a further result in my area: the FLGS is dumping GW. Everything is currently at least 25% off and they're ordering nothing more (except special orders through alliance, perhaps). Last straw, apparently

Gus8
03-11-2015, 04:14
I didn't mind AoS, with its beer & pretzels nature, bought the starter and a few Nurglers models and was playing weekly then GW released Skarbrand for NZD260!!!

My anger at such cash-gouging pricing was inline with the evident rage some felt with the death of the Old World. Absolutely killed any enthusiasm I had for GW stuff.

Have been playing the excellent fast play historical game DBA 3.0 instead and will get back into more Blood Bowl, which I don't consider GW, once the local league starts its new season.

Late
03-11-2015, 06:27
AoS killed this wonderful fantasy community we had in Iceland, yes even in a country of 300thousand people we had great community with many many players. I played with it on tournament this spring and won. Now everything is silent and people are trying to sell their armies desperately. This old feeling and old community is gone which is to me very sad.


This is the type of stuff that I read here very often, and have trouble understanding. Why should GW killing off FB change anything to you and the people you play with?

scruffyryan
03-11-2015, 07:00
This is the type of stuff that I read here very often, and have trouble understanding. Why should GW killing off FB change anything to you and the people you play with?

I'll take a crack at explaining it. Person A suddenly finds that they have a lot more disposable income all of a sudden as FB comes to a close. The money gets spent on a different product which Person A then would like to make use of. After all the FB army isn't going anywhere now. Assuming they find a new product which pleases them sufficiently, the compulsive collecting that lead them to get into FB in the first place seeds a desire to expand the product, or perhaps dabble in a different option that product offers that they didn't buy into intially. Well now person A is invested in this new thing, its pretty fun and they want to really get into it. But new hobbies are often expensive, fortunately even now FB armies can move for a decent to amazing entry into most any new gaming hobby, and its not like anyone is playing it anymore, everyones playing the new thing they spent their disposable income on since FB was discontinued. No reason to hang on to the army if you're not gonna play with it.

And thats how discontinued games lose their community.

Drakkar du Chaos
03-11-2015, 07:32
This is the type of stuff that I read here very often, and have trouble understanding. Why should GW killing off FB change anything to you and the people you play with?

Because killing WHFB is like killing the investment gamers had in it for so long, replacing it with a lame product is just ice on the cake.
Also some people just dislike change.

CountUlrich
03-11-2015, 09:42
This is the type of stuff that I read here very often, and have trouble understanding. Why should GW killing off FB change anything to you and the people you play with?
People were invested in the IP and the game, both of which were killed. This causes two things - a thriving community is not sustainable on a dead game, and so people leave for other games that can sustain a community (corporately ) and interest (personally). Secondly this exodus is spurred all the more by the hurt and angernover the destruction of something that was beloved.

I can go on to add that beyond those more generic factors, in this specific case, once people finally lelave the abusive relationship with a company like GW who treat customers sonpoorly, and then experience how amazing it is to be valued and engaged by companies like Mantic, Wyrd, PP and others it just intensifies the ill feelings at the years of being crapped on that we put up with.

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Buddy Bear
03-11-2015, 09:48
1) A game no longer being sustained removes visibility for that game entirely, which brings recruitment of new players to a near total stop.
2) Removal of the models for sale from game store shelves makes it harder to purchase those models. A lot of people bought kits or models on a whim while visiting the FLGS, but that's gone.
3) People like knowing that their army will eventually get an update. A game getting killed ensures that no one playing that game will ever get another update ever again.
4) People like seeing updates to a beloved setting, and knowing that it'll never get an update again is demoralizing. And GW didn't just end the setting, they utterly annihilated it.
5) Even if you're willing to keep playing, there are enough people who'd quit for any of the reasons above that you can count on seeing the amount of potential opponents you could face drop precipitously. And given that this is a game which requires a network of players to function, that in itself can encourage people to give up where they might otherwise stick it out.

The_Real_Chris
03-11-2015, 10:15
The only possible reason for the crimes against the English manguage is GW are now targeting the saturday morning cartoon crowd. Now, do they have a couple of grand handy for a new army?

scruffyryan
03-11-2015, 19:27
Dickering over the rules is one of the least awesome aspects of wargaming. Vague fast and loose rules increase the amount of dickering over rules.

Okuto
03-11-2015, 20:21
In my area I have a comic shop, a "book store" and a official GW.

The "book store" ceased carrying miniatures all together(except X-wing) and filled the space with X-wing, board games. They're looking to expand MtG as its starting to pick up again

The Comic shop has about 5-10 regulars and their kids who still play AoS but I see them playing blood bowl/dreadball more often. Owner has decided to cut down on AoS and started to buy some KoW. Warmahordes, historicals, bolt action/FoW, 40k, X-wing and MtG take up most of the table space.

The official GW store is running a AoS mini campaign but I see mostly 40k players there networking(its the only reason I go there:D). Few people actually play at the GW store, any tables are reserved for AoS.


I know the comic shop owner pretty well and he says that while the AoS initial release was decent, after the tourney circuit switched over to KoW there's been a huge interest in KoW so he's been reorganizing space to accommodate the demand. We have a sizable amount of tourney/Comp players and they're more likely to purchase stuff so its a no brainer to stock stuff there's demand for. People do buy the AoS stuff but its rarely to play AoS though(I only bought the AoS starter to add to my CSM army), not that he's complaining but he's concerned about the long term growth if that continues.

Right now he's playing with the idea of finding alternative games where people can use the AoS models in so he can have a regular audience that plays with them and thus attract new customers who happen to watch.

As to reactions towards AoS at the store, it was pretty indifferent. Many of us were just happy to see old pals dust off armies but that didn't last too long. It's alot harder to get mad and grumble when you're in good company:p

But as I said, didn't last long, lots of the local fantasy players(myself included) came into fantasy through historicals or the narrative was gone so it was not cutting it. At the end of the day, if you didn't play lizardmen, elves, chaos, VC, skaven or orcs as your primary army you were gone and back to whatever you were playing prior.;) I counted too, every legacy player I know whos sticking with AoS play one of those armies:p