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broxus
02-11-2015, 22:36
Well, in the past 15 years I have played Fantasy, 40k and Flames of War. All were fun game systems and I have enjoyed each. I have also been a pretty competitive tournament player and last year even played in the 2015 FOW ETC for team USA.

Last week i was in a game store and saw a AoS starter box and absolutely loved the look of the models. I had zero prior opinions of the game going in. It had been over a decade since I played WFB and I wanted to give this new version of the game with a four page rule book a chance.

So, the four page rule book only took me 5 minutes to read and the models took me an evening to put together. I played all the tutorial scenarios with my son and they felt rather light. Eventually, we tried the final battle scenario and my opinion really changed. I must say I had an absolute blast and it was so nice not being forced to look at a massive rule book. So I ordered even more models for both the Stormcast and Khorne armies and played even more games. The same result occurred and now I'm pretty much hooked and love the game.

So what I liked:
-short concise rules that you can explain in minutes to anyone
-massive tactical options and strategies with the free unit and battalion Warscrolls
-freedom not to worry about points
-taking casualties from anywhere
-streamlined hit, wounds, saves method
-fast flowing games
-alternating combat which keeps you engaged in both turns.
-Models are amazing
-Free rules and Warscrolls really reduces the startup costs
-the free app

What I don't like:
-Not measuring to the models base
-No organization method or format for games: should it be wounds, models, ect?
-No definition of max unit size see above point also (why only give the minimum size)
-sudden death victory conditions (not sure they are fair see above)

So I think GW may be on to something here and this game has tons of potential. Finally, I feel like I didn't win because I knew some obscure rule on page 172 of a rule book. The game is much more straight forward, easy to learn, hard to master and lots of fun to play. If GW changed the measurement to the bases and developed some optional army composition method for tournament gameplay I think this will really excel. I know it seems to be bringing in new players and returning some old players like me. Overall, I am really having tons of fun and have placed a third order in.

Spiney Norman
02-11-2015, 22:47
I'm glad you're having fun with it, it's good to hear of some positive experiences with the game.

For what it's worth I agree on the measure-to-bases issue and most games I've played we've taken it upon ourselves to make that change for the sake of our own sanity. If you're struggling to put down two approximately balanced forces there are a whole raft of army composition systems that have been put together by fans of the game and should be easy to adapt to your needs.

Here's a link to one of the more popular ones >> Azyr Comp (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?410903-Azyr-Comp-System)

Yrch
02-11-2015, 22:59
Nice to hear!
If you don't have them already, get the two big books (Age of Sigmar and Quest for Ghal Maraz). they have scenarios that are really fun to play.
Same goes for the Khorne and Stormcast scenarios from their respective books (Khornes' are better imo)

So far me and my group went with wound limit and it worked pretty good so far. Also, screw measuring from model to model, use base to base, specially if all your minis are on round ones.

Ben
02-11-2015, 23:12
Definitely use one of the fan rewrites of the rules. Almost no one plays Age of Sigmar, they play their own version.

Play a few more games before buying a bunch more stuff. Some people have liked it at first, played a few games and gone right off it.

broxus
02-11-2015, 23:24
Definitely use one of the fan rewrites of the rules. Almost no one plays Age of Sigmar, they play their own version.

Play a few more games before buying a bunch more stuff. Some people have liked it at first, played a few games and gone right off it.


Seems to be lots of AoS tournaments where I live and I am sure it will grow over time. I do like some of the player rule tweaks such as measuring from bases and a few other things. I know many people may not like AoS however I had no preconceptions or animosity towards the game and it's really lots of fun for me. It's so refreshing not feeling like I won because of the gotcha rules memorization I do for all the other game systems. I can finally just focus on gameplay and tactics which feels solid to me.

One other thing I thought was odd came up tonight. If a model has a 2"-3" range on their weapon why do they need be within 1/2" to charge them. This caused is a model with 3" melee range not getting involved in the combat since it can't move within 3" of a surrounded enemy model. It should be you need to get within your weapons range +1/2" to successfully charge a unit. I also wish there were some more specifics about sequence of events.

In regards to army composition I understand there are player developed ones being used. I just prefer official rulings so events are somewhat similar to each other. I look forward to playing the new scenarios.

Shipmonkey
02-11-2015, 23:24
The group I game with start playing AoS by adding a lot of house rules. As we have play more, the house rules have dropped off and we are using the rules straight as written, with no problems.

Ben
02-11-2015, 23:29
Seems to be lots of AoS tournaments where I live. I do like some of the player rule tweaks such as measuring from bases and a few other things. I know many people may not like AoS however I had no preconceptions or animosity towards the game and it's really lots of fun for me. It's so refreshing not feeling like I won because of the gotcha rules memorization I do for all the other game systems. I can finally just focus on gameplay and tactics which feels solid. I do feel they need to develop some balance mechanisms which would improve most people's enjoyment. I have seen some pretty cool ones that they could easily adopt.

Thing is a lot of the gotcha stuff comes back when you play things not in the new release schedule using the war scrolls GW has provided.

Where do you live where there are lots of AoS tournaments? Genuinely curious.

broxus
02-11-2015, 23:40
The good thing is all the Warscrolls are free so I can look them over any time on my iPad. I don't need to purchase every codex or briefing as I did before in other games to stay competitive. The free Warscrolls and rules are one of the best features of the game.

I am currently an American living in the UK for another year or two. There seem to be 1-2 AoS tournament a month here.

Choombatta
02-11-2015, 23:48
Definitely use one of the fan rewrites of the rules. Almost no one plays Age of Sigmar, they play their own version.

Play a few more games before buying a bunch more stuff. Some people have liked it at first, played a few games and gone right off it.

We play straight from the rules without changes. I find it much nicer than having to remember house rules that are not written down somewhere.
The only thing we might change is not using certain Time of War rules if we do not like the addition or mechanic.
For example, we use all the Time of War rules for a Realm, but we do not use the Storm of Sigmar rules, because the Stormcast players does not have nearly enough models yet.
This is no way alters the normal rules for a game (using the 4 page rules).

broxus
03-11-2015, 00:12
Do you measure to the models or bases? I think the AoS rules are brilliant however it is just annoying measuring to every spear, wing or tail that hangs off or inside a base. For a game priding itself on having a streamlined system, measuring to the model instead of the base seems to be silly decision.

I am also not a huge fan of being allowed to shoot my bows at another enemy unit while simoutanoulsly being attacked in melee combat by an enemy unit. This is just personal taste and doesn't negatively impact my gameplay experience. All the other rules seem to make sense to me.

Yrch
03-11-2015, 01:03
One other thing I thought was odd came up tonight. If a model has a 2"-3" range on their weapon why do they need be within 1/2" to charge them. This caused is a model with 3" melee range not getting involved in the combat since it can't move within 3" of a surrounded enemy model. It should be you need to get within your weapons range +1/2" to successfully charge a unit. I also wish there were some more specifics about sequence of events.


i think this comes down to streamlining the game for fast play.
its way faster and easier to just roll 2 dice and see if you can get within 1/2" instead of looking up what your weapon reach is, add 1/2" and then do your roll.
also it would give some models some serious advantage, having 3" reach like protectos have would guarantee you that you can charge anything thats within 9 inches in your movement phase, cavalary like demigryphs would be OP as hell.

what are the problems with event sequence? maybe we can clear things up for you :)

Okuto
03-11-2015, 01:38
Glad you enjoyed it, I had similar experience, although originally I only bought the starter set for the chaos models to add to my chaos marine army, I kinda just bumbled into AoS by chance. I wasn't interested in AoS at first and was still "in mourning" for the loss of the old fluff but lots of my old mates dusted off their armies and I learned the game in good company. Played it a bit, finished up a warband style mini-campaign but in the end I decided AoS wasn't for me(there's no reason for my empire/DoW army to be there and thus no narrative so each game felt empty). I still play if I'm asked but I don't see any future with AoS at this moment and time. If I didn't have the misfortune of playing Empire/Dogs of War I'd probably embrace the system more but meh.


As to your concerns, from my time with AoS
-Almost no one I knew learning the game measured from the model(My Pikemen would have been pleased otherwise)
-Just about everyone I knew threw out the shooting into combat(unless you played skaven or orcs)
-Use a fan-made rule rule set, AoS is a exercise in frustration otherwise
-Sudden Death, I dunno what to do about it. It didn't really concern me as I was learning the game

Kenshinzo 7
03-11-2015, 02:56
I agree with your thoughts Broxus. I am having a great time with the game and find that it has reinvigorated my love of the hobby. Oh and we measure from the base but that's the only modification we use.

Dosiere
03-11-2015, 04:51
To be fair I don't think anyone after the first week of release measured from models. It's just a strange, funky thing to make work in the game itself. Even with square bases it's still easier to just use the base. In fact I think it was the only universally accepted house rule around here. For playability I would highly recommend making measuring from bases a thing.

broxus
03-11-2015, 07:51
To be fair I don't think anyone after the first week of release measured from models. It's just a strange, funky thing to make work in the game itself. Even with square bases it's still easier to just use the base. In fact I think it was the only universally accepted house rule around here. For playability I would highly recommend making measuring from bases a thing.

To be clear I have zero issue shooting into combat. The bow ranges are so close that it wouldn't be hard to pick off targets and engage friend from foe. Especially with Stormcast who are fallen heroes. I just don't like that you can shoot your bows at another unit while the bowman are engaged in combat.

My sequence of events question is with Lord Castellant's lantern. If your hero has one wound left and takes damageand one makes one save which heals you what happens? Do you heal the wound then take the wound resulting in your hero surviving OR do you resolve the wound first resulting in your hero not surviving?

Yrch
03-11-2015, 08:42
Hm yeah, there is no clear description of that.
According to rules, you have to allocate wounds to a model and roll save throws one-by-one, this would never lead to a situation like the one you describes.
So either do that with units that are buffed by the Castellant or as the rulebook states, if things are unclear just talk about it with the other player but id say heal comes before wounds.

Kherith
03-11-2015, 08:49
I thought saves came between wounds and applying damage from the wound, so in theory the wound should be regenerated before any damage is applied to the castellant.

Spiney Norman
03-11-2015, 09:22
Reference the 'Making attacks' sequence in the rules
Note that it is perfectly acceptable according to the riles to resolve your attacks and saves rolling all the dice at once

You make saves at step 3, under the influence of the warding lantern you would immediately regain a lost wound for any save roll equal to a 7 (modified with a +1 from the lantern). By my reading this would happen before damage is determined at step 4.

So for the example of a hero with one wound remaining, he is wounded twice and rolls a 1 and a 6 (modified to 7) for his save rolls.
He would save one wound and regain a wound (putting him at two wounds), then in the determine damage step he would lose a wound, putting him back down on 1 wound.

Yrch
03-11-2015, 10:26
Reference the 'Making attacks' sequence in the rules
Note that it is perfectly acceptable according to the riles to resolve your attacks and saves rolling all the dice at once

You make saves at step 3, under the influence of the warding lantern you would immediately regain a lost wound for any save roll equal to a 7 (modified with a +1 from the lantern). By my reading this would happen before damage is determined at step 4.

So for the example of a hero with one wound remaining, he is wounded twice and rolls a 1 and a 6 (modified to 7) for his save rolls.
He would save one wound and regain a wound (putting him at two wounds), then in the determine damage step he would lose a wound, putting him back down on 1 wound.

yep this is how i would handle it too.
but depending on how many save rolls you gotta do, i think its easier to just roll em one by one and resolve heals/wounds that way fo special things like this as then there is no need to discuss anything ;)