PDA

View Full Version : Are there any Space Marines left who remember the Horus Heresy?



SlowingCoyote
08-11-2015, 22:18
I know that Dante has been Chapter Master of the Angels for 1100 years, but is it possible that he, and other marines, have been alive since the Heresy?

ChaosTicket
08-11-2015, 23:25
Ive never heard of Astartes dying from old age related problems, but just from combat they would eventually die.

Dante of the Blood Angels and Logan Grimnar of the Space Wolves are stated to be the oldest living Astartes, and even then theyre under 1500.

Chaos Space marines have the excuse that the eye of Terror and Maelstrom has different flow of time, so 10,000years is accelerated.

Saunders
08-11-2015, 23:34
Those interred in to dreadnoughts are not really "alive," but Bjorn the Fell-Handed lived in the time of the Great Crusade. It doesn't get any older than that.

Splen
08-11-2015, 23:36
There's that ultramarines chaplain who is supposed to be really old too. But I think Bjorn is the only one who was alive during the Horus heresy, and I guess he's still alive in a locked-in-a-metal-box kind of way

Splen
08-11-2015, 23:39
'Ninja'd' as I believe today's youth are wont to say.

Saunders
08-11-2015, 23:43
There's that ultramarines chaplain who is supposed to be really old too. But I think Bjorn is the only one who was alive during the Horus heresy, and I guess he's still alive in a locked-in-a-metal-box kind of way

Cassius is 'only' around 400 years old, and he's the oldest living member of the Ultramarines (excluding dreadnoughts)

Perversor
08-11-2015, 23:52
Those interred in to dreadnoughts are not really "alive," but Bjorn the Fell-Handed lived in the time of the Great Crusade. It doesn't get any older than that.

And there is Cleutin at least from 2nd edition Angels of death codex.

The oldest living Vet sergeant in blood angels, protector of Sanguinius shroud and rumoured to be the 1st sargeant Dante ever served when he joined the Blood angels.

To be fair the only *living* marines that should be alive since the heresy should be either Chaos marines or Fallen Dark angels aside some rare exception.

mightymconeshot
09-11-2015, 14:17
In one of the salamander's book there was a marine alive that was heresy era. I didn't read the book myself but I remember it being mentioned here and there. Maybe someone who has will drop in.

The details I remember was that he was the captain of a crashed ship. He hooked himself up to ship life support and basically went comatose for the majority until the group came along. And then he pretty much died right after.

hopkins
09-11-2015, 14:41
Epimetheus?

Samguk Yusa
09-11-2015, 18:07
Well the Lion is still alive and he would know. However I'm not 100% sure if that counts because he is alive but he's not kicking ( unless he does it in his sleep)

Harwammer
09-11-2015, 20:28
All Sanguinius's children have the capacity to remember the Siege of Terra, even though these individuals weren't actually there at the time.

Sadly they aren't very well able to communicate the experience as it is a pretty bad trip.

Razios
09-11-2015, 20:57
All Sanguinius's children have the capacity to remember the Siege of Terra, even though these individuals weren't actually there at the time.

Sadly they aren't very well able to communicate the experience as it is a pretty bad trip.

they are capable...just instead of taking they decide go in really hardcore version of LARP about it

sunborn
09-11-2015, 21:50
Do you count Cypher? He can be fielded in a Space Marine Army.

Inquisitor Engel
09-11-2015, 22:39
All Sanguinius's children have the capacity to remember the Siege of Terra, even though these individuals weren't actually there at the time.

Sadly they aren't very well able to communicate the experience as it is a pretty bad trip.

The Blood Angels also had a captain named Raquel interred in a Dreadnaught until late M41 as well.

Splen
09-11-2015, 23:44
Epimetheus?
Oh yeah, I forgot about him. Not sure about his current status living wise though.

=Angel=
10-11-2015, 10:36
Are there any Space Marines left who remember the Horus Heresy?
Brother Pepp R. Ridge Pharm remembers.

SlowingCoyote
10-11-2015, 14:54
10/10 Best comment.

Makure
11-11-2015, 23:44
One of the HH short stories has a Loyalist Iron Warrior who was dying of old age due to being shot by some sort of alien time gun.

librisrouge
12-11-2015, 01:09
The only one sane enough is Bjorn, THE FELL-HANDED ONE! Yes, you have to type it like that.

The Sanguinor counts but he doesn't do interviews.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Losing Command
12-11-2015, 02:43
Let's see :
-Björn is the most well known and obvious candidate, the only trouble being that he's kinda already in his coffin and gets meals through a straw I think

-Cypher is also an oldtimer, but with how little is sure about him in general and the fact that the Fallen got swept up by a warp rift to be spat out at random intervals, he might not actually be the oldest. This also counts for other of the Fallen.

-The Sanguinator could be from the heresy, but with nothing really sure about him there is no way to tell.

-There was indeed a Salamander that survived in a crashed space ship in one of the BL novels, but he sadly died almost immidiatly after being found.

-In the novel Pandorax there is a Grey Knight that has been standing watch over a pretty nasty, but initially sealed, warp-rift ... since shortly after the Horus Heresy. Appearently he was one of the first GK, and in kinda unsubtle hints it becomes appearent that he was part of the Dark Angels Legion before becoming a GK. He however (trying not to spoil it to much) meets Abbadon and let's just say things do not end well, but he is not killed.

-A lot of the Chaos Marines probably remember the HH (sanity nonwithstanding) but with how time and the warp don't go along that well are probably not the oldest living space marines.

totgeboren
12-11-2015, 11:15
Let's see :
-A lot of the Chaos Marines probably remember the HH (sanity nonwithstanding) but with how time and the warp don't go along that well are probably not the oldest living space marines.

I would think most of them don't really care about the HH all that much though. They were there, everything went to hell (literally!) and now it has been 10,000 years give or take a few thousand for most of them. The GC and the HH was just a few hundred years, the time after the HH has been the vast majority of their life span, and thus what has shaped them into who they are today.
Ofc it is the background to why they are who they are now, but the specifics are probably not that relevant anymore.

ChaosTicket
13-11-2015, 00:15
Does anything think there are Horus Heresy reenactments anywhere? Im sure Chaos Space Marines are just reenactors.

hazmiter
13-11-2015, 00:30
There was a dark angels marine in the eye of terror novel. Sadly he had to "repent".

Inquisitor Engel
15-11-2015, 14:41
Does anything think there are Horus Heresy reenactments anywhere? Im sure Chaos Space Marines are just reenactors.

No?

In a galaxy full of constant war, of never-ending, grinding, crushing war, where professional soldiers will never know a moment of true rest or relaxation, why the hell would anyone want to pretend to have a battle?

Not to mention the true facts of the Heresy are classified and much of the Imperium doesn't know anything about them.

Razios
15-11-2015, 18:13
No?

In a galaxy full of constant war, of never-ending, grinding, crushing war, where professional soldiers will never know a moment of true rest or relaxation, why the hell would anyone want to pretend to have a battle?

Not to mention the true facts of the Heresy are classified and much of the Imperium doesn't know anything about them.

Because there are planets who never face war, we just dont talk about it for narrative standpoint.

And yes I imagine they should be heresy renacment, not the true of course but a diluted and clearly aproved version of it where the emperor was always a god, Lorgar a jelous men and everything was their fault, someting like that

=Angel=
15-11-2015, 18:30
Because there are planets who never face war, we just dont talk about it for narrative standpoint.

And yes I imagine they should be heresy renacment, not the true of course but a diluted and clearly aproved version of it where the emperor was always a god, Lorgar a jelous men and everything was their fault, someting like that

One city in only war had mad city lords who enacted laws to ban yellow one day and so on. Once they forced the city to recreate a key imperial battle and then executed the traitor re-enactors at the end.
The Tau interfered with a chaos world's ritual wars- the ritual may have involved reenactment.
Isn't there a Necron that captures various factions and makes them recreate battles?

I guarantee somewhere in the galaxy, an Iron Warrior is sitting in front of a warhammer board reenacting the siege of Terra, wondering how he could have sieged harder.

gwarsh41
16-11-2015, 13:10
Dante of the Blood Angels and Logan Grimnar of the Space Wolves are stated to be the oldest living Astartes, and even then theyre under 1500.



Ulrik the Slayer is older than Logan Grimnar, his age is unknown, however his fluff states he trained Grimnar and Logan still looks to him as an elder.

I agree with others that Bjorn is the only marine "living" that recalls the HH and had been in the company of a primarch.

fluxdeluxe
16-11-2015, 16:21
Ulrik the Slayer is older than Logan Grimnar, his age is unknown, however his fluff states he trained Grimnar and Logan still looks to him as an elder.

I agree with others that Bjorn is the only marine "living" that recalls the HH and had been in the company of a primarch.

Nope there is a grey knight captured by abbadon the despoiler called Epimetheus a grandmaster founder member of the grey knights who had been in the presence of Malcador and the emperor I believe

See the pandorax novel

ztwee
16-11-2015, 16:47
How about the survivors of the Space Wolves 13th compagny ? It seems some of them may be remembering a lot of the Horus Heresy.

Razios
16-11-2015, 21:39
Nope there is a grey knight captured by abbadon the despoiler called Epimetheus a grandmaster founder member of the grey knights who had been in the presence of Malcador and the emperor I believe

See the pandorax novel

Yeah, and abaddon bargain him to the emperor children so they can bring and avatar of slaanesh in change for their help.....not a good end for that fellow.


How about the survivors of the Space Wolves 13th compagny ? It seems some of them may be remembering a lot of the Horus Heresy.




yeah, great part of the ragnar books is the spear of russ, and ancient relic who in theory was used by him....only to be reveal he didnt like the weapon that much.

Karhedron
17-11-2015, 14:46
How about the survivors of the Space Wolves 13th compagny ? It seems some of them may be remembering a lot of the Horus Heresy.

Assuming the Wulfen who emerged from the Eye of Terror to help the Imperium against the 13th Black Crusade are the same ones who disappeared chasing the Thousand Sons then it is possible (even likely) that they remember Russ. However having spent 10,000 years in the Eye of Terror, it is likely they have been subjected to the same capricious whimsy of time as the traitor legions.

We don't know how much time has passed from their PoV. Also there has been virtually nothing written about them since their fleeting appearance 15 years ago. The background has moved on and there has not been any mention of them in the HH novels for instance.

Lord Damocles
17-11-2015, 17:19
The background has moved on and there has not been any mention of them in the HH novels for instance.
They're mentioned in the current Codex: Space Wolves.

That counts, right?

Lupe
17-11-2015, 17:42
I guarantee somewhere in the galaxy, an Iron Warrior is sitting in front of a warhammer board reenacting the siege of Terra, wondering how he could have sieged harder.

Ahahaha, totally. The answer would be "do not lower the fething void shields", though :)

hazmiter
21-11-2015, 14:35
They're mentioned in the current Codex: Space Wolves.

That counts, right?

Indeed. However there is no further mention of them after unless they are coming in as a stand alone thing later on.
Eye of terror campaign prob had the most info we will ever have on them.

Razios
22-11-2015, 17:40
Indeed. However there is no further mention of them after unless they are coming in as a stand alone thing later on.
Eye of terror campaign prob had the most info we will ever have on them.

But they exist, point is GW dosent like to said "this dosent exist anymore" they just quietly stop taling about it until they show up latter, just look the squat who get a mention or knights who where there in the background for a loooooong time.

GW is very orwellian with their fluff and consider they are bristish company, that suit them very well.

Malagor
25-11-2015, 12:51
Luther is still alive isn't he?

Spiney Norman
25-11-2015, 20:44
Luther is still alive isn't he?

That's an interesting point actually because it blows the theory that traitor characters only survive the passage of time because they've spent most of it in the warp completely out of the water, Luther has been alive and locked in the inner cell of the rock for close to 10,000 years.

Lord Damocles
25-11-2015, 20:55
That's an interesting point actually because it blows the theory that traitor characters only survive the passage of time because they've spent most of it in the warp completely out of the water, Luther has been alive and locked in the inner cell of the rock for close to 10,000 years.
He's kept in stasis, except for the periods when he's being interrogated (Codex: Dark Angels (6th ed.), pg.12).

Malagor
25-11-2015, 22:41
Always thought he was stuck in a cell this whole time since I have heard that he is ranting and raving about being forgiven when the Lion wakes up(keep on dreaming Luther).

Lion-El's Dribble wiper
12-12-2015, 12:39
I think it's implied that Luther get's revived for questioning every time a new Chapter master is made. Maybe, it's a ritual?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TheRedAngel
13-12-2015, 19:05
Luther is "stuck in his cell this whole time", only the whole cell is a stasis chamber, according to "The Unforgiven" novel.
The field gets switched off from time to time (if, for example, the current Supreme Grand Master believes one of Luthers visions might help solving a mystery or crisis).
It's quite funny actually, the field sometimes gets engaged and disengaged again while Luther is in the middle of uttering a sentence, so he "wakes up" with some completely other guy standing outside of his cell than he was originally addressing, because hundreds of years have passed in realtime.

ChaosTicket
13-12-2015, 22:59
Luthor was interesting back when I knew so little about the Dark Angels. Now he's just a reminded of convoluted things. Why not just kill the guy if he is such an arch-traitor that only the Daemon-Primarchs are worse?

Its pretty safe to say they only people who were alive cant or wont tell what they remember. Good guys are stuck in stasis like Bjorn the Fell-handed.

DanteYoda
18-12-2015, 06:12
Legion of the Damned?

Any chance they are from the HH.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned

The Legion of the Damned also employs ancient technology, especially the early patterns of Plasma Weapons (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Weapons) that date back to the Horus Heresy (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy) era.

Karhedron
18-12-2015, 07:18
Legion of the Damned?

Any chance they are from the HH.

Unlikely. The LotD are the remnants of the Fire Hawks chapter of Space Marines who were lost in the Warp. The Fire Hawks were only founded in M36 so there is no chance of any of them dating from the HH.

blackcherry
18-12-2015, 13:42
Legion of the Damned?

Any chance they are from the HH.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned

The Legion of the Damned also employs ancient technology, especially the early patterns of Plasma Weapons (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Weapons) that date back to the Horus Heresy (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy) era.

As Kargedron said - it's impossible as the Fire Hawks originate from M36. What we don't know much of is what kind of equipment the chapter used themselves. I would personally put it down to artwork and models influencing background over time - after all it looks better aesthetically if they have baroque weaponry to match the armour they wear.

Lord Damocles
18-12-2015, 13:43
The Fire Hawks were lost in 963.M41.

Presumably they had the same range of new-ish and more venerable equipment which most Chapters have access to when they disappeared.

Hellebore
21-12-2015, 09:35
The Fire Hawks were lost in 963.M41.

Presumably they had the same range of new-ish and more venerable equipment which most Chapters have access to when they disappeared.

Pretty young for a pervasive legend.

Ayin
21-12-2015, 14:32
Luthor was interesting back when I knew so little about the Dark Angels. Now he's just a reminded of convoluted things. Why not just kill the guy if he is such an arch-traitor that only the Daemon-Primarchs are worse?



Because, as with all their traitor brethren, the Dark Angels want him to repent his sins. Unlike all others they capture, he has not. Not, apparently, because he feels he has done no wrong, but because he does not need to, as he will be forgiven by the founder of their legion upon his return.

ChaosTicket
21-12-2015, 14:49
The dark Angels are Batman/emo impersonators. While they were somewhat interesting in 3rd edition they quickly got on my nerves. Talking about them takes up too much space in this thread.

blackcherry
21-12-2015, 16:23
The dark Angels are Batman/emo impersonators. While they were somewhat interesting in 3rd edition they quickly got on my nerves. Talking about them takes up too much space in this thread.

Angry about something today? :eyebrows:

Karhedron
21-12-2015, 19:43
Because, as with all their traitor brethren, the Dark Angels want him to repent his sins. Unlike all others they capture, he has not. Not, apparently, because he feels he has done no wrong, but because he does not need to, as he will be forgiven by the founder of their legion upon his return.

Yeah, because Lion El Johnson is soooo the forgiving type. :p

That bit about forgiveness was written long before the current characterisation of Johnson. I think it is safe to say if he woke up now, Luther's head would be the first one on the block.

Ayin
22-12-2015, 21:10
Who cares about Cypher? Hes never going to reveal the truth about the Dark Angel Betrayal, or become chapter master or whatever his plan is. Besides the Fallen didnt even know about the Horus Heresy.

Don't get so upset. Maybe 40k will get the full Age of Sigmar treatment and they will actually continue moving events forward until the suggested events actually transpire. You'd be happy then, right?



Yeah, because Lion El Johnson is soooo the forgiving type. :p

That bit about forgiveness was written long before the current characterisation of Johnson. I think it is safe to say if he woke up now, Luther's head would be the first one on the block.

I think regardless of what happens, Johnson kills him.

ChaosTicket
22-12-2015, 21:25
People compare ANY CHANGE whatsoever to the slash-and-burn treatment that happened to warhammer fantasy erasing and rebooting the setting.

Its terrible that all the "new" things are coming from 10,000years previous to the current setting with new equipment, history, and characters.

Karhedron
23-12-2015, 08:46
Its terrible that all the "new" things are coming from 10,000years previous to the current setting with new equipment, history, and characters.

Why is it terrible? How does it in any way affect the enjoyment of the setting or playability of the game? I genuinely do not understand why people desperate for the setting to progress as if it was an actual story. People expected it after Armageddon, they expected it after the Eye of Terror campaign. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

ChaosTicket
23-12-2015, 13:07
Why is it terrible? How does it in any way affect the enjoyment of the setting or playability of the game? I genuinely do not understand why people desperate for the setting to progress as if it was an actual story. People expected it after Armageddon, they expected it after the Eye of Terror campaign. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Tell me something, ever play Super Mario Bros 1? What if you only had that game for 20years?

There are plenty of tabletop games that progress their timelines such as Battletech. You may not always agree with the changes but its better than a permanent freeze on any change outside gameplay.

blackcherry
24-12-2015, 09:05
Tell me something, ever play Super Mario Bros 1? What if you only had that game for 20years?

There are plenty of tabletop games that progress their timelines such as Battletech. You may not always agree with the changes but its better than a permanent freeze on any change outside gameplay.

Is that the Battletech that folded because the changes angered the fans?

Not that I'm saying change is wrong. But 40k is definitely a setting. They had a few goes at experimenting with progression, both with worldwide campaigns and slow advancements of the background in codex's over the years. More often than not, the backlash has been like this; half the fanbase suddenly expects sweeping changes to happen overnight whilst the other half think the new advancements are stupid and hate them. Either way the result is a fanbase that is poised to hate GW whatever they do.

So it went back to being a setting. Sadly, you have to live with it ChaosTicket. No amount of agitating on internet forums will change that. Though I do admit you are trying admirably ;)

ChaosTicket
24-12-2015, 09:19
The "Sweeping changes" people hate in 40k are when writers like Matt Ward making armies into Mary Sues like Ultramarines going from Super-Average to the Best Army EVER or Butt Monkies like the Eldar.

Non-rpgs dont have "settings", and considering warhammer 40k has at least half a dozen RPGs the difference should be clear.

Games-workshops so-called "experimentations" are to have a campaign, probably lie about the result and then immediately drop it as it was just a way to sell a new range of models like Eye of Terror. Warhammer Fantasy had probably the best example. In Storm of Chaos Chaos was losing among the players so GW lied and said Chaos won, but then Chaos ran away because REASONS! and then immediately retconned it so it didnt exist. then Chaos invasion part of the End Times was "The Return of Storm of Chaos 2: the Revenge of the Reckoning" but really just the same thing as its core.

Lord Damocles
24-12-2015, 09:31
Games-workshops so-called "experimentations" are to have a campaign, probably lie about the result and then immediately drop it as it was just a way to sell a new range of models like Eye of Terror.
Are you jumping on the 'Eye of Terror was rigged'? bandwagon now?

Because I heard this amazing conspiracy about how the moon landings were faked too!

blackcherry
24-12-2015, 12:47
Aye - anyone who thinks the Eye of Terror campaign was rigged just wasn't participating in it*. I'm sure there is a link to the whole thing on Warseer itself (any help Lord Damocles?), but it broke down to a few Chaos players figuring out how the system worked and the Forces of Disorder being organised, whilst the Forces or Order squabbled amongst themselves and put a lot of their results into locations that were already safely under their control.

As for your examples of change in the background, they are internet meme's that don't resemble the background they are referring to very well.


*The Storm of Chaos I'm not so sure about, as the Loremaster admitted there was a semi-predetermined state the final stage of the campaign would take regardless of results, but that what state the Chaos forces were in when they reached the walls was all down to the campaign results beforehand.

ChaosTicket
24-12-2015, 20:33
I didnt say anything was rigged but things go loopy.

Storm of chaos was this. Chaos beat up the Empire. Then orcs came with Grimgor kicking Archaon in the balls, then running away. Vampire Counts came to beat up Chaos and Empire and then ran away because Manfred was scared of the almost dead Volkmar(what?) and then Chaos finally ran away instead of finishing off the Empire. oh and Valten the Reincarnation of Sigmar was killed so no problem with Karl Franz the Emperor and Valten ever fighting for control of the Empire.

And that was just the story portion.

afterwards it was all retconned and the campaign army book dropped.

Harwammer
25-12-2015, 13:58
Wasn't explicitly retconned till the end times, though. The stuff released between Storm of Chaos and End Times was never far enough forward in the timeline to confirm or contradict the events.

At best you can say it is a retcon of omission, but saying that is like saying the HH literature retcons the events of 40k.