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Animal310
12-11-2015, 20:50
Ok a similar thread to the AOS sales one.

How are sales of the Betrayal of Calth set doing? Anybody know? Is it shifting as much as expected?

TheKingInYellow
12-11-2015, 21:07
My FLGS has sold out it's allotment already, not sure about the GW shop. I know several people personally who are buying it and haven't touched GW product in a few years.

narradisall
12-11-2015, 21:09
Well I can only speak for one place I went, 200 sold out of 400 or 500 ordered and they said they were shifting fast.

Although the guy also told me they were limited (yes yes I know they're not) but I think he was just trying to convince me to preorder one.

Drakkar du Chaos
12-11-2015, 21:31
How are sales of the Betrayal of Calth set doing?

Better than the Stormcast Eternals.

mattl
12-11-2015, 22:00
I saw 15 copies go in the few minutes of the store being open

Catweazle
12-11-2015, 22:08
Better than the Stormcast Eternals.

Because it's not like space marines don't outsell everything. :rolleyes:

RandomThoughts
12-11-2015, 22:45
Seems like it's shifting a lot better at my LGS than AOS did.

Truth be told, first GW product in ages that's tempting me...

isthatnew?
12-11-2015, 22:49
My usual mail order outlet sold it's allocation before I could get one ordered but are hoping for more. I have one on order from another supplier and will look at picking up a second one. I know my local GW had more pre order sales for this than AoS but they did sell most of their initial AoS boxes by holding a promo event in store. Since then it's been very slow for AoS starters.

Let's face it GW have at least three distinct groups they are targetting with BaC, HH gamers and collectors, 40K players are being told this is a great option for some variant armour patterns for your 40K marine army, then you have the boardgamers/casual gamers too.

MusingWarboss
12-11-2015, 23:05
A lot of people are eyeing it up as a good way of buying a marine army, whether it be HH or 40k based.

Wolf Lord Balrog
12-11-2015, 23:17
Its quite good value compared to GW's other offerings for Space Marines:

Betrayal at Calth (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Horus-Heresy-Betrayal-at-Calth-ENG)
$150 US

30 Tactical Marines
5 Terminators
1 Terminator Commander
1 Chaplain
1 Contemptor-pattern Dreadnought

Shadow Force Solaq (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Shadow-Force-Solaq-EN)
$140 US

5 Vanguard Veterans
5 Sternguard Veterans
1 Captain
1 Land Speeder

Space Marines Battleforce (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Battleforce-2015)
$100 US

10 Tactical Marines
1 Captain
1 Castaferrum-pattern Dreadnought

I mean, its a totally different league, value-wise.

Drakkar du Chaos
12-11-2015, 23:21
Well, something priced well sold like cookies. I hope GW will learn from that.

narradisall
12-11-2015, 23:35
Yeah I wish they'd realise they sell more of the value is good. I'm rather hoping HH sells really well and they do more things like this.

They'll probably think it's selling well because it's marine on marine action and they can up the price since people will obviously buy it for more of it sells so many!

Yrch
14-11-2015, 00:37
Local Store sold about 20 on the first day, dont know how many preorderd over the week and a lot of people are just waiting for their Christmas bonus.
Im pretty sure FW is also rubbing hands now.

The Black Shield
14-11-2015, 01:46
I don't know. It's not Saturday yet.

NCO
14-11-2015, 11:58
I watched the play example from GW TV and the dice mechanic looks familiar, I remember seeing it in a WWII boardgame some years ago.

Very tempting and it'll be interesting to see how well this does and how it affects GW future decisions.

toonboy78
14-11-2015, 19:20
my local store had plenty of people in today building up the boxes they had bought.

i was very tempted to get it even though i am not a fan of heresy era miniatures (apart from Primarchs and characters), i suppose i could spread them out in my squads

williamsond
16-11-2015, 08:07
from what I'm seeing on face book etc the BaC boxed game seems to have sold very well, the sort of numbers that you would get for a 40k starter set at least.

Kahadras
16-11-2015, 11:06
Yeah I wish they'd realise they sell more of the value is good. I'm rather hoping HH sells really well and they do more things like this.

Lets be realistic here. The value of Betrayal is only good value when compared to other GW products. It's still really expencive for what you get. I would still expect it to sell really well because 'Space Marines' and 'Horus Heresy'.

Vos
16-11-2015, 16:58
Well our little group of around 8 veteran players in the North West of the UK bought up 12 boxes between us - bam!

Vos

narradisall
16-11-2015, 23:33
Lets be realistic here. The value of Betrayal is only good value when compared to other GW products. It's still really expencive for what you get. I would still expect it to sell really well because 'Space Marines' and 'Horus Heresy'.

Well it's certainly cheaper than other GW products have been for several years from what I can see.

Of course it'll sell well because it's using one of their most popular armies in one of their most popular settings they've been building fluff for through BL books for years.

Thing is will they think it sold well because it was cheaper than their usual fare, or because "space marines", they'll pay more for space marines!

Kahadras
17-11-2015, 01:30
Well it's certainly cheaper than other GW products have been for several years from what I can see.

That's not hard seen as GW has been asking for more than 20 for ten models for years now. So the 37 or so models you get in the Betrayal box would seem cheap at 95.


Thing is will they think it sold well because it was cheaper than their usual fare, or because "space marines", they'll pay more for space marines!

GW will know it sold well because 'Space Marines' and 'Horus Heresy'.

Spiney Norman
17-11-2015, 10:02
GW will know it sold well because 'Space Marines' and 'Horus Heresy'.

Which absolutely has some truth to it, because the age of Sigmar boxed game had more models, was cheaper and sold less well.

Felwether
17-11-2015, 10:53
Lets be realistic here. The value of Betrayal is only good value when compared to other GW products. It's still really expencive for what you get. I would still expect it to sell really well because 'Space Marines' and 'Horus Heresy'.

It's not cheap but it's certainly good value by any standards. That's 1500pts plus worth of top quality minis and the board pieces for 100EUR (with discount from my FLGS). That's verging on Mantic prices in terms of price per model.

The place I bought it from is a toyshop with links to a small local club. They pre-sold 8 and have another 4-5 on order this week.

Kahadras
17-11-2015, 11:33
It's not cheap but it's certainly good value by any standards. That's 1500pts plus worth of top quality minis and the board pieces for 100EUR (with discount from my FLGS). That's verging on Mantic prices in terms of price per model.

Really? Most mantic army starter sets go for something like 50 for around 40 models IIRC. Perry minatures are asking for 95 for the Civil war box set that contains over 175 minitures. Obviously I'm aware that price discussion should be held over on the appropriate thread but I find it dubious that BaC represents 'good value by any standards'. Heck even Dark Vengence (thought it's models are snap-fit) is 30 cheaper and has something like 12 more models.

Felwether
17-11-2015, 11:45
Really? Most mantic army starter sets go for something like 50 for around 40 models IIRC. Perry minatures are asking for 95 for the Civil war box set that contains over 175 minitures. Obviously I'm aware that price discussion should be held over on the appropriate thread but I find it dubious that BaC represents 'good value by any standards'. Heck even Dark Vengence (thought it's models are snap-fit) is 30 cheaper and has something like 12 more models.

The key difference here (for me at least) is exactly that these minis aren't push fits. With the exception of the characters they're proper, poseable multi-part minis with tons of options on the sprue. The Contemptor might be a bit on the static side but even that has a choice of weapons.

The set also contains (for once) a completely legal CAD army of playable size.

I would get into the subjective realm of model design and quality when compared to other manufacturers but that's a pointless debate.

And you are quite correct, this isn't the right place to have this discussion, so I'll stop derailing the thread!

Kahadras
17-11-2015, 13:43
The key difference here (for me at least) is exactly that these minis aren't push fits. With the exception of the characters they're proper, poseable multi-part minis with tons of options on the sprue. The Contemptor might be a bit on the static side but even that has a choice of weapons.

Yup but you still have to pay for it which doesn't make it 'good value by any standards' IMHO. It makes it good value by GW standards as a box of Terminators, 3 boxes of Tactical Marines, a Dreadnought and a couple of clampack leaders would set you back something like 170 but that's more a case of just how silly GW prices have got.

Herzlos
17-11-2015, 15:22
Really? Most mantic army starter sets go for something like 50 for around 40 models IIRC.

Most 50 Mantic armies have nearer 75 models (counting cavalry as 2), have a look at the Dwarfs of Humans. That's at retail; you can get them much cheaper from 3rd parties without any crazy restrictions.

Duardin
17-11-2015, 17:10
That's not hard seen as GW has been asking for more than 20 for ten models for years now. So the 37 or so models you get in the Betrayal box would seem cheap at 95.

Erm. That's more expensive.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

nagash66
17-11-2015, 17:26
Really? Most mantic army starter sets go for something like 50 for around 40 models IIRC. Perry minatures are asking for 95 for the Civil war box set that contains over 175 minitures. Obviously I'm aware that price discussion should be held over on the appropriate thread but I find it dubious that BaC represents 'good value by any standards'. Heck even Dark Vengence (thought it's models are snap-fit) is 30 cheaper and has something like 12 more models.
I think you are failing to factor in the board game side of things, this is NOT a starter set, but a fully playable boardgame, with all the tiles, rules and tokens you need to play right off the bat. I for one feel i got my moneys worth with the 5-6 hours of fun i have had playing the game so far, without even factoring in future 30k mini use.

On topic, our local club of about 20 regular members bought 7 copies so far, compared with 2 AoS.

Kahadras
17-11-2015, 17:28
Erm. That's more expensive.

Well the current asking price for a basic Space Marine is 2.50. Thirty of those guys sets you back 75. The current asking price for a basic Terminator is around 5.60. Five of those are 28. That's over 100 right there! Makes the BaC box set look like the bargain of the century when it comes to GW products.


I think you are failing to factor in the board game side of things, this is NOT a starter set, but a fully playable boardgame, with all the tiles, rules and tokens you need to play right off the bat. I for one feel i got my moneys worth with the 5-6 hours of fun i have had playing the game so far, without even factoring in future 30k mini use.

Yeah but but let's be honest we didn't buy the BaC boardgame for the boardgame; we dropped that money for the core of a Horus Heresy army.

Erloas
17-11-2015, 18:37
I think a more important question than how well it is selling is the question of who is buying it.

The general through seems to be that GW needs to reach out to new costumers, it needs gateway games to help with that. Is this a gateway? Is this getting to a new audience?
If the game is simply selling more marines to existing marine players for less than they can buy them for normally then they haven't really gained anything substantial or long term.

Is this going to draw in new board game enthusiasts? Is this going to catch that ever growing market? At $150 retail that is between 2-6 board games. I haven't heard anything about the mechanics of the game, but given what we've seen from GW lately I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt about it being anything new and groundbreaking.

So it is going to pull new wargaming fans into 40k now that they have a cheaper point of entry? Well I don't see anyone not knowing about 40k in the wargaming circles. Anyone that knows much about 40k will also know it is missing quite a bit to be a good army (like transports, and general versatility) so it is good to reinforce or grow existing armies but you'll be looking at dropping a lot more money to actually start playing if you're new (or returning). That would be for the codex and main rulebook at very least, and a lot more for more models.

So are they winning over new or old players that left with this box? Or are they simply selling models to their existing player base at a lower cost than normal?

EmperorNorton
17-11-2015, 18:46
I think you are failing to factor in the board game side of things, this is NOT a starter set, but a fully playable boardgame, with all the tiles, rules and tokens you need to play right off the bat.
Comparing it to other board games doesn't do it any favours, at least outside the UK.
Looking at the price in €, you could get both Pandemic Legacy and Blood Rage, two of the biggest board game hits of the year and a bit ont he pricey side, for less than Betrayal at Calth. FIY, Blood Rage comes with over 40 miniatures.

Vazalaar
17-11-2015, 19:14
I think a more important question than how well it is selling is the question of who is buying it.

The general through seems to be that GW needs to reach out to new costumers, it needs gateway games to help with that. Is this a gateway? Is this getting to a new audience?
If the game is simply selling more marines to existing marine players for less than they can buy them for normally then they haven't really gained anything substantial or long term.

Is this going to draw in new board game enthusiasts? Is this going to catch that ever growing market? At $150 retail that is between 2-6 board games. I haven't heard anything about the mechanics of the game, but given what we've seen from GW lately I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt about it being anything new and groundbreaking.

So it is going to pull new wargaming fans into 40k now that they have a cheaper point of entry? Well I don't see anyone not knowing about 40k in the wargaming circles. Anyone that knows much about 40k will also know it is missing quite a bit to be a good army (like transports, and general versatility) so it is good to reinforce or grow existing armies but you'll be looking at dropping a lot more money to actually start playing if you're new (or returning). That would be for the codex and main rulebook at very least, and a lot more for more models.

So are they winning over new or old players that left with this box? Or are they simply selling models to their existing player base at a lower cost than normal?

I think to both, as I've seen a couple of post were people say this is their first GW purchase in x months/years.


Comparing it to other board games doesn't do it any favours, at least outside the UK.
Looking at the price in , you could get both Pandemic Legacy and Blood Rage, two of the biggest board game hits of the year and a bit ont he pricey side, for less than Betrayal at Calth. FIY, Blood Rage comes with over 40 miniatures.

LOL! Sorry, I am off painting a Pandemic Legacy miniature.. oh wait, there aren't...

About Blood Rage, I do agree that the miniatures do look excellent, but it are all clones. Each mini is cloned 4 times, not multi pose, with head, arm weapon variants... as BaC and most importantly it is PVC, thus not hard plastic, but more soft and bendy.

So no, Imo BaC has more value as a a board game and it also has a big plus that you can use the mini's for a base for 30K and 40K.


Edit: that said, Blood Rage is certainly also a must buy.

Kahadras
17-11-2015, 19:20
Is this going to draw in new board game enthusiasts?

Don't be silly, of course it isn't. This is squarely aimed at selling as many box sets as possible to HH fans who want to get started on their army before the individual boxes come out and we're suddenly paying 30 plus for a squad of Horus Heresy Marines.

Archibald_TK
17-11-2015, 20:18
Yup, I agree with Kahadras. BaC is mainly aimed at the many HH fans, it's not here to recruit new players. And I dare to say it's pretty good at its job so far. Well AoS was also aimed at people already in the hobby instead of new players, or at least its marketing and pricing strategy were.

On my side 15 boxes sold with the first wave, 5 new boxes arriving that week. I need to sell around 23 boxes to make more money with BaC than I already did with WFB/AoS from July to now (to give you an idea, last year it would have required around 34 boxes of BaC to equal WFB Jul-mid Nov. numbers, so we are one of those stores performing worse than last year in the Fantasy department).

narradisall
17-11-2015, 20:45
GW will know it sold well because 'Space Marines' and 'Horus Heresy'.

Which is the sad thing, as from most people here it seems it sold well because it's cheaper. Otherwise that Raven guard box set that came out recently would be flying. Off the shelves.

narradisall
17-11-2015, 20:48
Actually back onto the discussion of sales, I picked up some stuff from dark sphere today and they said they'd done about 400 boxes, some where buying 4+ boxes a pop so this will certainly be a winner for GW.

HelloKitty
17-11-2015, 20:56
Yeah our area cleared out of HH boxes too. And yes people were buying multiples of the box as well for the models because of the price point.

UndeadKing
17-11-2015, 21:19
Its sold about as much as AoS did in the local indy. Both local GW`s have loads left too. So its not done too great but that does mean I can always pick up a second box.

Its main problem is the box is a few years too late. People just arent as interested in GW or the heresy now a days

NCO
18-11-2015, 01:26
I'm just hoping they'll sell the dice as separate eventually. Not really looking to get back into that universe, it's too much like drugs.
If anyone knows where I can find similar dice please tell.

It is pretty cheap by GW standard but at almost 100 I'm reluctant to dip my foot back in.

Losing Command
18-11-2015, 06:03
I bet you'll be able to get the dice, cardboard tiles and what not on Ebay or just second hand real easy for real cheap. All the people I know who got BaC only wanted the models so they can play FW's 30k for a more reasonable price, the game itself they couldn't care less about :D

narradisall
18-11-2015, 07:19
You can get the 'game' for anywhere from 5-15 on eBay. That's cheaper than a GW measuring tape for the dice!

The_Real_Chris
18-11-2015, 13:19
Oh really? That might be the best option for me.

Herzlos
19-11-2015, 08:52
Yeah, I've not heard of anyone buying this for anything but the minis.


Its sold about as much as AoS did in the local indy. Both local GW`s have loads left too. So its not done too great but that does mean I can always pick up a second box.

Is that because it's just being bought by vets, who know that they'll get a discount if they buy them through Darksphere and the likes?

The_Real_Chris
19-11-2015, 13:17
Interesting point.

Ben
19-11-2015, 20:00
I did get mine for 75. Because 20 is 20.

narradisall
19-11-2015, 20:03
I paid 76 for mine, people go it's not good value for 95 but plenty of places do it far cheaper than that.

Although I see me spendin those savings on another terminator squad or two, was going to get a third contemptor and terminator but I'm not a huge fan of the contemptor

jtrowell
20-11-2015, 08:33
GW boxes used to be great value, now they have gone to just good (not great) value ... when you get -20% on the retail price. :rolleyes:

I suppose that this mean that the box reached the "meh" level of price then when you ignore the discounters, while the rest is now between "holy **** that's expensive" and "I could buy Norway for this much !". :shifty:

vlad78
20-11-2015, 11:19
Well, something priced well sold like cookies. I hope GW will learn from that.

Given that it will impede other space marines boxes sales, I'm not sure GW twisted logic can come to the right conclusion.

Baragash
20-11-2015, 12:26
I have a similar issue. If I was buying this as a gateway into or to pad out a HH army then it is a good saving versus FW resin. As a boardgame....it's gotta be damn special for 95, only once have I parted with that sort of money for a board game and that was Kingdom Death: Monster.

NCO
20-11-2015, 12:55
To clarify, for 95 it's cheap by GW standard and for the number of minis and stand alone game it's worthwhile, the although cheaper the better.
I don't want to get back into 28mm 40k now that I've invested a lot into 6mm, so it's the dice, rules and 6mm epic minis for me.
I'm really not their target customer at all.

EmperorNorton
20-11-2015, 13:04
I have a similar issue. If I was buying this as a gateway into or to pad out a HH army then it is a good saving versus FW resin. As a boardgame....it's gotta be damn special for 95, only once have I parted with that sort of money for a board game and that was Kingdom Death: Monster.

The reviews I have seen so far have all been very positive. I don't know why, though, because from what I have read the gameplay seems incredibly simplistic. I'd have tro try it myself, I guess, but no way am I paying the asking price to do that, especially since I find the minis completely boring and uninspired.

Kalidane
20-11-2015, 13:57
The reviews I have seen so far have all been very positive. I don't know why, though, because from what I have read the gameplay seems incredibly simplistic. I'd have tro try it myself, I guess, but no way am I paying the asking price to do that, especially since I find the minis completely boring and uninspired.

I had fairly high hopes, but am left in this camp after looking at the minis. Really dislike the termies and dread. I'll be grabbing some RTB01 instead. Much cooler.

The_Real_Chris
20-11-2015, 14:11
For 7 off ebay the game seems fine...

From what I have observed of it being played it is a simple to and fro with the spice of special cards to confound and astound. Not the stripped down tactics of space hulk, more a 'trash', fun game. You can very easily get up and going, the missions seem to go down to the wire and both sides feel they had a decent game. Not a stunning innovation but if you want a nice theme to go with those old space marines - why not? (Very old Space Crusade marines in my case.)

Katastrophe
23-11-2015, 21:07
Paid $112 with shipping in the good ole US of A.

Though I haven't played 40K in some years (mainly stopped because they went all mega huge gigantic vehicle and super mega flyers - which I felt were crazy at this scale game) having those models at that price is a decent deal if I decide to pull out my old models and start back up.

memitchell747
23-11-2015, 23:23
For 7 off ebay the game seems fine...

From what I have observed of it being played it is a simple to and fro with the spice of special cards to confound and astound. Not the stripped down tactics of space hulk, more a 'trash', fun game. You can very easily get up and going, the missions seem to go down to the wire and both sides feel they had a decent game. Not a stunning innovation but if you want a nice theme to go with those old space marines - why not? (Very old Space Crusade marines in my case.)
You sure make a bunch of virtues sound like flaws. You may have observed some, you didn't absorb much. Not my favorite game, but a lot better than "trash." Try it, you may like it. Or, be informed enough about it to appreciate what it does well.

de Selby
24-11-2015, 01:38
The game is pretty much what I was hoping Age of Sigmar would be. The rules are simple but they broadly make sense and incorporate the basics of tabletop tactics. The models are priced at the level I was buying placcy marines, termies etc. at a decade ago, and I wanted some placcy heresy marines, so this was an easy buy for me.

If GW wants to start releasing sets like this on a regular basis (there are rumours about marines vs. genestealer cults, for example), then I'll be pleased as punch. On that basis I hope it sells, and the general reaction on here was pretty positive so I'm optimistic. I'll ask at my LGS how it's doing relative to AoS and Assassinorum.

The_Real_Chris
24-11-2015, 11:14
You sure make a bunch of virtues sound like flaws. You may have observed some, you didn't absorb much. Not my favorite game, but a lot better than "trash." Try it, you may like it. Or, be informed enough about it to appreciate what it does well.

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant trash as in Ameritrash if you are familure with that style of game.

memitchell747
24-11-2015, 19:22
Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant trash as in Ameritrash if you are familiar with that style of game.
I know, you were clear. I was pressing my point. You were dismissing the game (a bit), and I wanted to get your attention. I watched a video on the game, and played it once. Good, not spectacular. Then, I played it again. Hey, wait a minute! This game is chock full'o clever things I really didn't notice the first time around! Played it a third time, and now I am a solid fan. It's smart, its clever, its elegant. Its challenging and fun. You know how we always say we want something that is more challenging than just bashing each other over the heads? This IS that. But, not in a fiddly way. In a good way.

Having said that, look out, Ya'll. There might just be a reason such an elegant set of rules languishes in the bottom of a box full of 30K starter army miniatures.

This may just be THE prophetic statement of the year:

The game is pretty much what I was hoping Age of Sigmar would be.